TCL Launches P-Series & C-Series 4K Roku TVs with HDR Dolby Vision Launch - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
On the record comment from TCL...

"Our expectation is that the TVs will be shipping out to consumers in mid-June."
thanks!
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post #272 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 09:02 PM
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Cool thanks. I think we are at best a few weeks away from shipping at this point.

My past experience makes me think that you're probably right.

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post #273 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 09:02 PM
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If TCL can reach gaming monitor-like input lag, the bigger budget companies need to step their game up as well! This is an achievement for TVs!
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post #274 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 09:05 PM
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Did you even read the article above this thread?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say? Did you mean to say the article in the first post of this thread? The one that was added today?
Did you see the date of the post you quoted me from?

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post #275 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 09:10 PM
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^^^ don't mean to Ji-hack your post but it's nice to see you posting again.
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post #276 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 09:11 PM
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Dam just noticed this only has 3 HDMI, not a deal breaker but i guess they gotta shave somewhere for the price.
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post #277 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Oledtech View Post
If TCL can reach gaming monitor-like input lag, the bigger budget companies need to step their game up as well! This is an achievement for TVs!
Yup. PS4 Pro and Uncharted 4, totally in my Memorial Day Weekend plans...

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post #278 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 10:07 PM
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^^^ don't mean to Ji-hack your post but it's nice to see you posting again.
Hi!!!! *waving* I'm in the market for a big tv (and they don't make plasmas anymore), so I'm back. It's good to see you too.

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post #279 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 10:19 PM
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Just to double check, I put up a full black field with local dimming turned off. The backlight stays on. Then I cycled through window patterns in 10% increments. The background black stays the same.

Then I measured full-screen black and full-screen white. You guessed it... 7800:1

It's rock-solid confirmed, there's no way around it. And yeah, viewed head-on with local dimming turned off, this TV looks great. I don't know how/why this TV is delivering such great native contrast. Please do note, there's VA panel drop-off so these contrast figures are for head-on. Going down to figure that off-axis stuff out right now.
Hi, so going by the performance, color accuracy, etc... can you kindly point out what comparable 2017 LG or Samsung series would be? Putting price aside entirely and just going spec for spec, what series and models for LG and Samsung would I be looking at?
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post #280 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 10:34 PM
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Hi, so going by the performance, color accuracy, etc... can you kindly point out what comparable 2017 LG or Samsung series would be? Putting price aside entirely and just going spec for spec, what series and models for LG and Samsung would I be looking at?
Eh what an odd question. So basically you wouldn't buy this TV because its made by TCL?

And as for the specs, truly neither company has a TV that compares in a lot of the categories. Samsung has not figured out how to do local dimming yet (and does not support dolby vision), LG refuses to use VA panels in their LCD TV's, Sony makes some good tv's from this year like the x900E but that is nearly 3x the price of this TCL...

Honestly there are two TV's on the market to choose from now, this TCL and OLED......nothing inbetween makes any sense price wise. If you are gonna spend 1500 for a x900E you may as well save up another 500 for a 2016 OLED, and if these specs translate to a great experience i dont know why someone would pay double for a vizio P series either.
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post #281 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
Eh what an odd question. So basically you wouldn't buy this TV because its made by TCL?

And as for the specs, truly neither company has a TV that compares in a lot of the categories. Samsung has not figured out how to do local dimming yet (and does not support dolby vision), LG refuses to use VA panels in their LCD TV's, Sony makes some good tv's from this year like the x900E but that is nearly 3x the price of this TCL...

Honestly there are two TV's on the market to choose from now, this TCL and OLED......nothing inbetween makes any sense price wise. If you are gonna spend 1500 for a x900E you may as well save up another 500 for a 2016 OLED, and if these specs translate to a great experience i dont know why someone would pay double for a vizio P series either.
Oh no, I'm not a brand snob, I was ask by a buddy who is considering a LG or Samsung which series and model these companies offer that compares in performance to the 55P607. Not looking at how LG and Samsung prices their series but purely based on performance results of their mid-tier and high-end sets. What's comparable by these two companies looking at their 2017 line up to the 55P607? Seems like not an odd question, but a pretty simple one since we now have pre and post calibration results.

Perhaps the only person who would feel uncomfortable with this question would be someone who perhaps spend 2-3x as much money on a set that didn't even perform well. But of course mentioning price is outside forum rules so if you feel inclined to answer please don't mention price just series and model number.
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post #282 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
Eh what an odd question. So basically you wouldn't buy this TV because its made by TCL?

And as for the specs, truly neither company has a TV that compares in a lot of the categories. Samsung has not figured out how to do local dimming yet (and does not support dolby vision), LG refuses to use VA panels in their LCD TV's, Sony makes some good tv's from this year like the x900E but that is nearly 3x the price of this TCL...

Honestly there are two TV's on the market to choose from now, this TCL and OLED......nothing inbetween makes any sense price wise. If you are gonna spend 1500 for a x900E you may as well save up another 500 for a 2016 OLED, and if these specs translate to a great experience i dont know why someone would pay double for a vizio P series either.
Ok, so a more specific question with more context. I am not a gamer or sports watcher, I care only about movies. Given that and now that we have some calibration results, how much better is OLED than what we're getting with multi-array local dimming on the 55P607? I guess the three things I'm most concerned with are input lag, native contrast ratio and color accuracy. So if someone could compare this to say a high end OLED by Samsung and tell me a margin of difference in percentage (ball park is fine) it would be greatly appreciated.

There's a lot of data provided in visualizations in the review and I assume these exist for other 2017 OLED sets so I don't understand why it's s difficult to boil it down for those of us less technical.
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post #283 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 10:59 PM
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@rmz76 , just curious, if you only care about movies, then why would you care about input lag at all? As long as the audio syncs up with the video, it doesn't matter if you have 100+ milliseconds of input lag, a movie will still look just as good.

Also, Samsung doesn't make an OLED​.

Unfortunately I'm not really qualified to answer the rest of your question, although I do think we need to wait for more info from imagic before we really can start discussing how good the local dimming is on this TCL. Good algorithms are just as important as high number of zones, as evidenced by the fact that the Sony x900e only has 20-30 zones but has been almost universally praised for excellent local dimming performance.

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post #284 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 11:04 PM
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Dumb question.
Is it expected that the 50 inch will perform similarly to the 55 inch?

55 inches is too big, but I wouldn't want to get the 50 inch if it meant higher input lag.
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post #285 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rmz76 View Post
Ok, so a more specific question with more context. I am not a gamer or sports watcher, I care only about movies. Given that and now that we have some calibration results, how much better is OLED than what we're getting with multi-array local dimming on the 55P607? I guess the three things I'm most concerned with are input lag, native contrast ratio and color accuracy. So if someone could compare this to say a high end OLED by Samsung and tell me a margin of difference in percentage (ball park is fine) it would be greatly appreciated.

There's a lot of data provided in visualizations in the review and I assume these exist for other 2017 OLED sets so I don't understand why it's s difficult to boil it down for those of us less technical.
I actually did boil it down for you lol. In my opinion no one should be buying 2017 samsung TV's, they priced them so high they are competing against OLED's while being LCD TV's (qled isnt oled). The sony x900E is the best TV so far of 2017, but it is also overpriced. Got 600 bucks, buy the TCL. Got 1500 bucks, buy the TCL. Got 2 grand, buy the LG oled from last year.
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post #286 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 11:12 PM
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@rmz76 , just curious, if you only care about movies, then why would you care about input lag at all? As long as the audio syncs up with the video, it doesn't matter if you have 100+ milliseconds of input lag, a movie will still look just as good.

Also, Samsung doesn't make an OLED​.

Unfortunately I'm not really qualified to answer the rest of your question, although I do think we need to wait for more info from imagic before we really can start discussing how good the local dimming is on this TCL. Good algorithms are just as important as high number of zones, as evidenced by the fact that the Sony x900e only has 20-30 zones but has been almost universally praised for excellent local dimming performance.

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Thanks, then leave input lag out and just native contrast ratio, color accuracy.... I don't need a string of reviews to qualify these things when a skilled tech has already done a pretty in depth analysis.... Is there a fear of drawing comparison or is it against forum rules to say model X by brand LG is comparable to brand Y by brand TCL, etc...? If that is the case then I'd withdraw the question, but it seems an odd thing to ban and not such an odd thing to ask, but since it appears to be this will be my last post trying to push for it. If someone has the ability to answer it would be appreciated if not I'll try to find from another source.

I guess at some point later in the year I can wait for Consumer Reports or some similar publication to rank 2017 sets, seems like this forum should be a more reliable source for these sort of comparisons when the same metrics are taken off all TVs being calibrated. I don't understand why it's so complicated and why a running list doesn't already exist but maybe it's asking for a bit much.

It's rare but in some instances you have products in all categories from consumer electronics to autos where a manufacturer will built something truly remarkable that performs outside it's class. When this occurs the same phenomenon happens. Professionals and well educated consumers tend to shy from giving too much praise. It boils down to a fear of one's reputation being risked for being too early to boldly call out the outlier and identify it as a game changer. My observation has been that it takes a degree of confidence few have so consumers looking to know if something is really a disruptive product that changes the landscape for price point are left in the cold.

It would seem to me a place like AVS Forum would be the first stop for cutting through the mud (keeping this G rated) to get to clear answers but it also seems the general rules and fears kick in.

I think in general when people buy a new HDTV they have one or two questions. 1.) Putting price aside, where does it fit in on the grand scale of all available consumer grade TVs for it's size and possibly a more context specific 2.) Where does it rank against other consumer grade TVs for it's size and price point. Someone who studies the market and knows the specs should be able to rather easily answer these questions I would think. If not they are reserving judgement for some reason or another. These two questions are really what I'm trying to get to anyway.

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post #287 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 11:25 PM
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I actually did boil it down for you lol. In my opinion no one should be buying 2017 samsung TV's, they priced them so high they are competing against OLED's while being LCD TV's (qled isnt oled). The sony x900E is the best TV so far of 2017, but it is also overpriced. Got 600 bucks, buy the TCL. Got 1500 bucks, buy the TCL. Got 2 grand, buy the LG oled from last year.
Thanks! So how well does the TCL 55P607 compare to the LG OLED from last year?

EDIT: This review gave me what I was looking for, thanks for pointing me to the 2016 LG OLED as an example of competition. I see some high end features that distinguish it from the TCL but I'm not sure they will impact what I care about. The motion interpolation has me curious.
http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6

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post #288 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 11:35 PM
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Im not sure what you are even going on about lol.

What are you looking for exactly? So far what we have seen from this TV spec wise put it in a class of TV's multiple times its price, it also has arguably the best smart interface baked right into it.

Samsung is going to have punchier colors due to their quantum dot implementation, sony people like to say they have the best image processing and upscaling lower resolution content, LG LCD TV's are not for people who care about image quality (unless oled) as their mainstream line of TV's is for an average consumer, and vizio P series might be going down in a hail of bullets after the release of this TCL.

I assume you know about rtings but here is a site you can check out if you are looking for particulars:
http://uk.rtings.com/tv

No TV is perfect and most do some things better than the next, luckily they even break down TV's into usage case in that scenario.
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post #289 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 11:38 PM
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@rmz76 , I think all the info you want is at rtings.com. you can set up a custom comparison list there with all the specs you want to compare. They are generally considered the best source of hard unbiased measurements and specs, afaik.

Personally I'm not trying to avoid the topic of comparison with high end brands, but I just simply don't have enough experience with high end TVs to give you a good answer. From what I've seen so far I think I agree with Fascinate, this is basically the only TV you should buy if you're buying LCD, but the super expensive LCDs do have advantages over this TV, it's just a matter of excessively diminishing returns for the exorbitant prices you will pay. And then there's subjective stuff like the smart OS and physical looks etc, but that's another discussion.

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post #290 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 12:48 AM
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I contacted tcl USA on Facebook and they dont know when it will be available in canada
Best Buy Canada sells a few TCL models. Maybe they'll be selling the new 55" soon.
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post #291 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 05:11 AM
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Honestly there are two TV's on the market to choose from now, this TCL and OLED......nothing inbetween makes any sense price wise. If you are gonna spend 1500 for a x900E you may as well save up another 500 for a 2016 OLED, and if these specs translate to a great experience i dont know why someone would pay double for a vizio P series either.
I was waiting for the Sony 55x900E to get down to 1200 and now I see this. I feel much better spending half as much and can then replace my AVR too.
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post #292 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 05:43 AM
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I love our Vizio P65, but there's no denying the value of the TCL based on numbers alone. I'll be looking to upgrade an old Sharp LCD in our bedroom later this year. I'm keeping my eye on this one.

Aside from picture quality, anyone have any experience with TCL's customer service?

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post #293 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rmz76 View Post
Thanks! So how well does the TCL 55P607 compare to the LG OLED from last year?

EDIT: This review gave me what I was looking for, thanks for pointing me to the 2016 LG OLED as an example of competition. I see some high end features that distinguish it from the TCL but I'm not sure they will impact what I care about. The motion interpolation has me curious.
http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6
It doesn't appear you're going to get an answer. I would suggest taking the measurements from imagic and then going to the Rtings site and compare them to what ever TV you were interested in before. If you need more convincing then go to a store and look at the models you choose on Rtings and visually check out the picture. Knowing they are not calibrated you can still get an idea of how they look in comparison to the measurements.

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post #294 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 06:50 AM
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It doesn't appear you're going to get an answer. I would suggest taking the measurements from imagic and then going to the Rtings site and compare them to what ever TV you were interested in before. If you need more convincing then go to a store and look at the models you choose on Rtings and visually check out the picture. Knowing they are not calibrated you can still get an idea of how they look in comparison to the measurements.

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That's what I've done and also watched a few videos educating myself on how to interpret the charts. It's helped give me a clearer picture of the extra features found on some higher end sets that may give incentive to some to shell out more... For me, it's just reaffirmed my purchase of this set and all the hype here. Also convinced two friends on the fence about 4k to buy (one going for the 55" set the other holding out for the 65"). Unless we start to see high defect rate, seems like this model should do much for the TCL brand.
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post #295 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 06:57 AM
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I can spell Roku,now learn how to use it.Suggestions? Thanx.

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post #296 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 07:04 AM
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Any larger size TV's in this series on the Horizon?
Thanks.
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post #297 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 07:11 AM
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Need a relatively cheap but decent set for the master bedroom, this may fit the bill. Hopefully it comes to Canada soon.
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post #298 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 07:15 AM
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Any larger size TV's in this series on the Horizon?
Thanks.
Larger than the 65" later this year? I doubt it

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post #299 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 07:48 AM
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65" will be the biggest which is a disappointing as NO 40" version as well.
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post #300 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmz76 View Post
Thanks! So how well does the TCL 55P607 compare to the LG OLED from last year?

EDIT: This review gave me what I was looking for, thanks for pointing me to the 2016 LG OLED as an example of competition. I see some high end features that distinguish it from the TCL but I'm not sure they will impact what I care about. The motion interpolation has me curious.
http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6
I see that you're wanting a comparison of which high end TV this TCL most resembles. That's really impossible to answer. I'll try to explain why. There are a lot of different measurements that are used to describe how well TVs perform. With so many permutations on TVs being good at some things and not as good at others, it's rare that to TVs from different manufacturers line up closely along all measurements. We also are still missing a few details on the TV such as how good the FALD implementation is, grey uniformity, and motion. Based on what we know, here's how done of the measurements stack up.

Native Contrast: this is a number many consider most important. What it measures is the ratio from the darkest black to the brightest white the display can show at the same time without local dimming. This is important because with HDR, you can have bright specular highlights next to a dark area in the same zone. Without a high native contrast, those bright highlights raise the black level too high and make the image look a little washed out. What's so amazing here is that this TV measures higher then any other LCD ever. OLED is going to be better with its infinite contrast due to the complete darkness of its blacks.

Peak brightness: this set is measuring 600-630 nits in any size window with no dimming over time. Most high end TVs dim over time because real content rarely sustains high brightness. Without dimming over time, they would overheat at the high numbers they produce. If you watch content that does sustain high brightness, you may notice it. This allows those high end TVs to reach or exceed 1,000 nits, which is what most HDR content is currently mastered to. Being below 1,000 nits, the TV has to use a transfer function to translate the 1,000 nit peak to the TCL's 630. The exception to 1,000+ nits in high end TVs is OLED. The 2016 models peak around the same level as the TCL with the 2017s peaking around 750. This is expected to increase quite a bit in 2018 with a new pixel structure that doesn't have to account for passive 3d filters. (2017s use same panel as 2016s even though they don't have 3d). Notably, the TCL does perform above the previous value leader of the Vizio P series and at a lower MSRP.

Color gamut/ volume. This TV measures fairly well. It's better than the Vizio P, but not as good as the high end TVs. If outperforms every other TV in its price range. To beat the TCL you have to spend 3-4x as much. Side color gamut is useful only in HDR content.

Input lag: this is important for gaming. Here, it's among the best measured.

Upscaling: we don't have much info here. It's probably not great and part of what makes the set cheap. However, if your AVR or player upscales really well, this is not important.

Haloing/blooming: this is only relevant to LCDs. OLED does not have this issue as emissive instead of transmissive. Even the best LCDs in this area such as the Sony Z9D which was built around having the best backlight engine possible has minor issues with this. Cheap LCDs are famous for having terrible blooming and halos. Based on Mark's initial impressions, the 72 zone FALD does a decent job where most users won't notice it on most content. A 72 zone FALD is going to be better than what most mid level TVs have. The Vizio P series has more zones, but as other users have mentioned, one of Sony's TVs has even fewer zones but a great algorithm making it a top FALD TV. More zones usually means better, but not always. We don't have great info or direct comparisons here, but initial impressions are good
Again, here it appears you will need to pay 3-4x as much for improvement in an area many will find satisfactory performance.

Motion: we don't have much info here. With a 60hz native panel, there's probably going to be some judder on 24fps content (movies). Sony has a reputation for good motion but cost more for it. There not much more to say here until we get more info.
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