TCL Launches P-Series & C-Series 4K Roku TVs with HDR Dolby Vision Launch - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 08:05 AM
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@bjaurelio , just a tiny note to add on, if you're watching a movie directly from a DVD or Blu-ray player it should still be judder free because it's an actual 24p source. Even the low end S series from TCL can do judder free 24p sources.

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post #302 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 09:33 AM
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For clarification purposes does this TV have a 60 hz or 120 refreash rate. I am interested because I am one of movies and sports .
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post #303 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 09:40 AM
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I found it. A couple of pages back thanks It is 60hz
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post #304 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 09:40 AM
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Hi!!!! *waving* I'm in the market for a big tv (and they don't make plasmas anymore), so I'm back. It's good to see you too.
So whatcha lookin' for this time?
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post #305 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bjaurelio View Post
I see that you're wanting a comparison of which high end TV this TCL most resembles. That's really impossible to answer. I'll try to explain why. There are a lot of different measurements that are used to describe how well TVs perform. With so many permutations on TVs being good at some things and not as good at others, it's rare that to TVs from different manufacturers line up closely along all measurements. We also are still missing a few details on the TV such as how good the FALD implementation is, grey uniformity, and motion. Based on what we know, here's how done of the measurements stack up.

Native Contrast: this is a number many consider most important. What it measures is the ratio from the darkest black to the brightest white the display can show at the same time without local dimming. This is important because with HDR, you can have bright specular highlights next to a dark area in the same zone. Without a high native contrast, those bright highlights raise the black level too high and make the image look a little washed out. What's so amazing here is that this TV measures higher then any other LCD ever. OLED is going to be better with its infinite contrast due to the complete darkness of its blacks.

Peak brightness: this set is measuring 600-630 nits in any size window with no dimming over time. Most high end TVs dim over time because real content rarely sustains high brightness. Without dimming over time, they would overheat at the high numbers they produce. If you watch content that does sustain high brightness, you may notice it. This allows those high end TVs to reach or exceed 1,000 nits, which is what most HDR content is currently mastered to. Being below 1,000 nits, the TV has to use a transfer function to translate the 1,000 nit peak to the TCL's 630. The exception to 1,000+ nits in high end TVs is OLED. The 2016 models peak around the same level as the TCL with the 2017s peaking around 750. This is expected to increase quite a bit in 2018 with a new pixel structure that doesn't have to account for passive 3d filters. (2017s use same panel as 2016s even though they don't have 3d). Notably, the TCL does perform above the previous value leader of the Vizio P series and at a lower MSRP.

Color gamut/ volume. This TV measures fairly well. It's better than the Vizio P, but not as good as the high end TVs. If outperforms every other TV in its price range. To beat the TCL you have to spend 3-4x as much. Side color gamut is useful only in HDR content.

Input lag: this is important for gaming. Here, it's among the best measured.

Upscaling: we don't have much info here. It's probably not great and part of what makes the set cheap. However, if your AVR or player upscales really well, this is not important.

Haloing/blooming: this is only relevant to LCDs. OLED does not have this issue as emissive instead of transmissive. Even the best LCDs in this area such as the Sony Z9D which was built around having the best backlight engine possible has minor issues with this. Cheap LCDs are famous for having terrible blooming and halos. Based on Mark's initial impressions, the 72 zone FALD does a decent job where most users won't notice it on most content. A 72 zone FALD is going to be better than what most mid level TVs have. The Vizio P series has more zones, but as other users have mentioned, one of Sony's TVs has even fewer zones but a great algorithm making it a top FALD TV. More zones usually means better, but not always. We don't have great info or direct comparisons here, but initial impressions are good
Again, here it appears you will need to pay 3-4x as much for improvement in an area many will find satisfactory performance.

Motion: we don't have much info here. With a 60hz native panel, there's probably going to be some judder on 24fps content (movies). Sony has a reputation for good motion but cost more for it. There not much more to say here until we get more info.
Wow, great explanation! This is break down I was looking for... Thank you for taking the time to explain!
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post #306 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 11:03 AM
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I have just purchased a vizio M series 2017, I have 3 weeks to return it so I would like to know how it compares to this TCL, the down side is it doesn't seem like it will be available before The end of the summer... @imagic

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post #307 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Hubert.J.Farnsworth View Post
I have just purchased a vizio M series 2017, I have 3 weeks to return it so I would like to know how it compares to this TCL, the down side is it doesn't seem like it will be available before The end of the summer...
According to TCL the 55P607 ships in mid June.

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post #308 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by theboomr View Post
According to TCL the 55P607 ships in mid June.

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Amazon says 2 to 3 months, and when I called tcl to ask they only said Q3... vague enough
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post #309 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 12:26 PM
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@imagic

Are you able to confirm if it is an 8-bit or 10-but panel? I know WCG is there but, as said earlier, it doesn't necessarily mean 10-bit.

Thanks!

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post #310 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Hubert.J.Farnsworth View Post
I have just purchased a vizio M series 2017, I have 3 weeks to return it so I would like to know how it compares to this TCL, the down side is it doesn't seem like it will be available before The end of the summer...
I'm not sure which Visio you picked up. I can tell you that I too just recently picked up a 55 inch Visio M class but after hearing the reviews here and the fact that it was on par if not better to the Visio P series I've already packed up my TV and I'm going to be taking it back this week. I I am willing to wait a couple months to get what's t sounds like an upgrade from what I had and at lower price
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post #311 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Hubert.J.Farnsworth View Post
Amazon says 2 to 3 months, and when I called tcl to ask they only said Q3... vague enough
I wouldn't go by that. It seems that your only option is to wait until rtings reviews the 2017 M and then compare reviews.
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post #312 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by whizkid39 View Post
I can spell Roku,now learn how to use it.Suggestions? Thanx.
Try youtube. The roku aspect of the tv should work just like the roku box. What will be different is that there will be an option to select "cable" or "antenna" among all the apps.

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So whatcha lookin' for this time?
I'm hunting a really big tv that doesn't have banding and has great shadow detail with wide color gamut. It's going to take the place of my 65ST60 in the den. The ST60 is going to replace the LG I bought back when we first met- in my office (where I spend most of my time). I've been drooling over the Sony 900E (can't afford the higher end Sonys) and considering the Vizio M & P. After reading the review for the TCL P, it looks like I'll probably be waiting until the end of the year when the 65" comes out. Like others, I wish it came in a 70" or 75." In the meantime, the 2017 Hisense tvs haven't come out yet.

edit: BTW, the LG is still going strong, but at 42" and these old eyes... I need something bigger.

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post #313 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 01:29 PM
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@rmz76 , just curious, if you only care about movies, then why would you care about input lag at all? As long as the audio syncs up with the video, it doesn't matter if you have 100+ milliseconds of input lag, a movie will still look just as good.
Using on-screen menus on low input-lag TVs is a lot snappier.
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post #314 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 01:37 PM
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I know this is off topic but it would be nice if they provided a remote with actual number buttons for changing channels!

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post #315 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some initial thoughts on motion...

Using blurbusters's testufo.com, I found the this TV does not handle motion as well as some top-tier TVs do, and it offers no options to change its default presentation.

The infamous 1080p Spears and Munsil "Sarah on a Hammock" clip played as well as I see other LCD TVs handle it in 24P with frame interpolation is turned off. The 30p "Stock Ticker" test pattern confirms, advanced motion processing is one of the things you give up to gain so much else.

On the other hand folks, worried about judder and movies can relax a bit, this TV handles 24p smoothly.

Regarding FALD...

Lights-out HDR had slightly elevated blacks, this FALD array is not as sophisticated as what you see from high-end TVs. I spotted some mild fluctuation in the letterbox bars when watching X-Men Days of Future Past, for example. Add a bit of ambient light and the blacks look inky deep and dark, only with lights out and HDR do I see the backlight impacting blacks.

SDR, lights out, Blu-ray, no halos around the FBI warning (lol).

Calibrated SDR is stunning. It makes HD Blu-rays look like they should, even with FALD at the highest setting, its machinations remain invisible. Jaw-dropping.

The built-in sound is weak, you'll want to add at least a soundbar to this TV.

I can confirm it tone maps HDR up to 4000 nits, rather than clip. It does clip 10,000 nits but right now that's essentially irrelevant as 1000 and 4000 nits are the two peak luminances used in HDR mastering.

Overall picture quality is knocking my socks off. I could live with this TV and be very content. SDR performance is a real highlight, nothing to complain about with the upscaling, either.

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Last edited by imagic; 05-27-2017 at 02:08 PM.
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post #316 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I know this is off topic but it would be nice if they provided a remote with actual number buttons for changing channels!
No number pad, the remote is the exact remote you get with a Roku.

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post #317 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 02:28 PM
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I hope the consumer available display performs as well as TCL's cherry picked one


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post #318 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 02:37 PM
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Any info on the video codecs this supports? I know it has Roku software inside but I'm interested in whether it supports newer video codecs natively like HEVC and VP9. I rip most of my blu rays these days and play them through Plex, I'm starting to switch to HEVC for my rips because they take up less space, but it does work my server harder to transcode, so if the TV can play it natively all the better!
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post #319 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
@imagic

Here's an odd request for you. Can you see whether this TV will accept a 50Hz signal (from a PC or a European bluray)?
Vizio with their 2.x.x.x firmware accepted 50Hz, but killed it in their 3.x.x.x FW. I wonder whether TCL, being a company that sells TVs worldwide, have support for 50Hz signal on this model.
Yes it does accept a 50 Hz signal.

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post #320 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 03:46 PM
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Awesome! Thanks for checking.

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post #321 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 03:57 PM
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Imagic,
If price were not an object and PQ was all would you pick this over a VA screen Visio P? Seems very close. Seems the up-scaling might be better on the TCL while the dark room blacks are better with the Visio. Seems a very tough call. j
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post #322 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 04:21 PM
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Thing is you really cant ignore the price, once the 2016 models are sold out you are looking at a TV half the price not including sales. I said from the beginning i didnt believe TCL was going to have the chops to do local dimming as well as vizio, but the cool thing with that is FALD has the opportunity to be tweaked via firmware. Vizio is still today making tweaks to its firmware and increasing the performance of the TV's, so you have to take release reviews of the TCL with a small grain of salt.
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post #323 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 04:45 PM
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So, movies are fine and everything, but how does this TV look when watching LIVE sports? Any problem?
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post #324 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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So, movies are fine and everything, but how does this TV look when watching LIVE sports? Any problem?
Have not watched any yet. I'll check it out in the next few days.
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post #325 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Here are some initial thoughts on motion...

Using blurbusters's testufo.com, I found the this TV does not handle motion as well as some top-tier TVs do, and it offers no options to change its default presentation.

The infamous 1080p Spears and Munsil "Sarah on a Hammock" clip played as well as I see other LCD TVs handle it in 24P with frame interpolation is turned off. The 30p "Stock Ticker" test pattern confirms, advanced motion processing is one of the things you give up to gain so much else.

On the other hand folks, worried about judder and movies can relax a bit, this TV handles 24p smoothly.

Regarding FALD...

Lights-out HDR had slightly elevated blacks, this FALD array is not as sophisticated as what you see from high-end TVs. I spotted some mild fluctuation in the letterbox bars when watching X-Men Days of Future Past, for example. Add a bit of ambient light and the blacks look inky deep and dark, only with lights out and HDR do I see the backlight impacting blacks.

SDR, lights out, Blu-ray, no halos around the FBI warning (lol).

Calibrated SDR is stunning. It makes HD Blu-rays look like they should, even with FALD at the highest setting, its machinations remain invisible. Jaw-dropping.

The built-in sound is weak, you'll want to add at least a soundbar to this TV.

I can confirm it tone maps HDR up to 4000 nits, rather than clip. It does clip 10,000 nits but right now that's essentially irrelevant as 1000 and 4000 nits are the two peak luminances used in HDR mastering.

Overall picture quality is knocking my socks off. I could live with this TV and be very content. SDR performance is a real highlight, nothing to complain about with the upscaling, either.
Did you change the FALD setting while viewing in dark room HDR? If so, what were the results? Did you notice any banding? When you say it was impacting blacks, do you mean that the were crushed or lighter? Shadow detail is most important to me for all media.

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post #326 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 05:05 PM
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Have not watched any yet. I'll check it out in the next few days.
Any updates on gaming?

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post #327 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Any updates on gaming?

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Basically, I have to pull it out of the basement and put it in my TV room, where the PS4 Pro is set up... which I did not do today. Tomorrow, for sure. Believe me, it's not for lack of wanting to chill for a few hours playing some good games. Will happen asap.

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post #328 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Have not watched any yet. I'll check it out in the next few days.
Hi Mark,

Could you tell us if you think this tv is better visually than the Vizio P series or not. I'm considering either one, if I'm unable to get my current tv purchasing situation resolved between the Sony A1E and the Sony Z9D.

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post #329 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 05:16 PM
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Thing is you really cant ignore the price, once the 2016 models are sold out you are looking at a TV half the price not including sales. I said from the beginning i didnt believe TCL was going to have the chops to do local dimming as well as vizio, but the cool thing with that is FALD has the opportunity to be tweaked via firmware. Vizio is still today making tweaks to its firmware and increasing the performance of the TV's, so you have to take release reviews of the TCL with a small grain of salt.
It won't do it as well as the Vizio P because it has 56 less zones. I guarantee it's as good or better than the Vizio M. According to Imagic it gets brighter than the Vizio P (500 nits) also , and way brighter than the Vizio M which can only do 300 nits full screen (600 in small highlights apparently). The motion was something I figured wouldn't be top notch, but I'm sure it's perfectly acceptable.
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post #330 of 1431 Old 05-27-2017, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post
Did you change the FALD setting while viewing in dark room HDR? If so, what were the results? Did you notice any banding? When you say it was impacting blacks, do you mean that the were crushed or lighter? Shadow detail is most important to me for all media.
Basically, if you push the TV to produce the brightest highlights possible (630 nits) it's necessary to use the brightest settings available. You can adjust the TV room brightness setting to get deeper blacks, but that caps highlights at lower peak luminance levels. There are practical limits to the dynamic contrast capabilities of this TV when watching HDR.

To me, the cool thing is it does HDR well, and SDR amazingly well.

Crucially, I have NOT watched any Dolby Vision content yet. For all I know, HDR performance with it will be better with dynamic metadata in the mix. All I've seen so far is HDR10 play on this TV.

I never saw banding. Turning FALD on darkens the image a bit, which helps the blacks.

Look, the top-tier HDR flagship LCD TVs that do 1000+ nit peaks and stuff definitely produce an HDR experience with more "pop" and so do OLEDs.

But, this TV comes close to much pricier TVs, and is worlds better than pseudo-HDR TVs that don't have the color gamut, or that can barely reach 1000 nits. I prefer that this TV knows its limits and does not try to do things that wind up being distracting (visible FALD machinations).

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