TCL Launches P-Series & C-Series 4K Roku TVs with HDR Dolby Vision Launch - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bigtexan999 View Post
The 4k spotlight channel is on every Roku set.
Since this will be my first 4k set it was news to me. :-) I do have a Roku tv and knew I hadn't seen it before. When I try to add the channel it tells me I don't have a Roku that supports 4k.

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post #362 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Arysyn View Post
Ah, I now know why that post didn't register in my mind specifically relating to my thinking, despite my already having read that post when I initially read through this thread.

Although, thank you for informing me about the post and sending the link connecting to it for me, theboomr. It was worth looking over and reading what it did contain relating to the TCL and the Vizio.

However, the post seemed more in relation to potential performance quality differences. Again, while this is helpful in its own way, I'm still wanting to know information regarding the direct physical in-person viewing observations of the televisions.
Well, it seems that you'll have to be more patient and wait until someone who owns a Vizio gets their hands on a TCL P. If imagic owns a vizio, I suspect that he would have answered you or that he will include a direct comparison in his final review. I believe most people would like to know the same things you do.
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post #363 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post
Well, it seems that you'll have to be more patient and wait until someone who owns a Vizio gets their hands on a TCL P. If imagic owns a vizio, I suspect that he would have answered you or that he will include a direct comparison in his final review. I believe most people would like to know the same things you do.
That's correct, I neither own nor do I currently have a review unit of either a 2017 Vizio M or a 2016/2017 Vizio P. I saw both in NYC last month, and wrote up my impressions here. But without one in my studio, I can't make comments about what a comparison with this TCL is like.

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post #364 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post
I was able to snag a 2016 65" Samsung KS8000 for a couple hundred over a grand a couple of weeks ago. Now I'm on the fence, wondering if I should return it and wait for the $1000 65" TCL.

Any advice? I'm guessing I'd give up color, peak brightness, and motion performance for contrast and less blooming?
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post #365 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by audacious nick View Post
Depends on how much the light control bothers you. You're not actually gaining contrast, either, so the only thing you are gaining is the light control.
You're giving up a lot for FALD, so if the light control doesn't bother you too much, it seems senseless to give up everything for it. If it does bother you, and you're willing to sacrifice everything in exchange for light control, do that.
In my eyes I don't bother replacing TV's unless is major upgrade in some areas or moderate upgrades across the board.. This case he gets one thing but may lose other things in the process. The Ks8000 is still a great TV in 2017. He wouldn't be buying a superior overall TV for the money in the TCL P. A true upgrade for the Ks8000 is a X930E, Z9, Q9F, or a B7 if you prefer better dark contrast. I'd just keep it. I think if you waited for the TCL 65inch youd be disappointed with that you got for the wait IMO.
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post #366 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Basically, if you push the TV to produce the brightest highlights possible (630 nits) it's necessary to use the brightest settings available. You can adjust the TV room brightness setting to get deeper blacks, but that caps highlights at lower peak luminance levels. There are practical limits to the dynamic contrast capabilities of this TV when watching HDR.

To me, the cool thing is it does HDR well, and SDR amazingly well.

Crucially, I have NOT watched any Dolby Vision content yet. For all I know, HDR performance with it will be better with dynamic metadata in the mix. All I've seen so far is HDR10 play on this TV.

I never saw banding. Turning FALD on darkens the image a bit, which helps the blacks.

Look, the top-tier HDR flagship LCD TVs that do 1000+ nit peaks and stuff definitely produce an HDR experience with more "pop" and so do OLEDs.

But, this TV comes close to much pricier TVs, and is worlds better than pseudo-HDR TVs that don't have the color gamut, or that can barely reach 1000 nits. I prefer that this TV knows its limits and does not try to do things that wind up being distracting (visible FALD machinations).
Do you have access to any HDR games? It would be nice to see how it performs.
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post #367 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alexious View Post
Do you have access to any HDR games? It would be nice to see how it performs.
Yes I do. I have a PS4 Pro with Uncharted 4.
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post #368 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by audacious nick View Post
Depends on how much the light control bothers you. You're not actually gaining contrast, either, so the only thing you are gaining is the light control.
You're giving up a lot for FALD, so if the light control doesn't bother you too much, it seems senseless to give up everything for it. If it does bother you, and you're willing to sacrifice everything in exchange for light control, do that.

Light control as in blooming and light bleed?
What are you giving up with FALD?
Also, I thought the native contrast of these TCL panels was in the 7000+:1 range, which is higher than the Samsung's.
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post #369 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Bonus points for...

"Pause over-the-air TV: With Live TV Pause, simply connect a 16GB or larger USB drive to your Roku TV to easily pause and play back over-the-air, antenna TV broadcasts."

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post #370 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 10:09 AM
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Aesthetics?

How does the TV look in appearance? Frame/bezel/color? For those concerned about not having actual numbers on the remote..don't be concerned. You simply click on the left arrow and your list (good idea to set up favorites) of channels will appear on the left side of screen..simply scroll up/down and click on your channel. Of course you can also use the up/down on the remote. I spoke with a TCL customer service rep and they stated that the remote/menu is much the same with the added adjustments for Dolbyvision/HDR10. Perhaps Imagic could confirm this.

I have the tcl 55us5800( $349.00 slickdeal in Feb) and love it..it compares favorably with our LG 65uh8500 which cost $2000.00 at the time we purchased. It's just not quite as bright. One note..if you use the usb 16gb stick for pause (like TIVO) it will disable the return channel (toggle between present and last channel) again, not a big deal. Seems this new TCL will be much improved over already pretty nice tcl tv's. Placed my order! Thanks to Imagic for the productive/extensive review! We should all be thankful/a great help in arriving at a decision.
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post #371 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Bonus points for...

"Pause over-the-air TV: With Live TV Pause, simply connect a 16GB or larger USB drive to your Roku TV to easily pause and play back over-the-air, antenna TV broadcasts."

Things keep getting better
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post #372 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post
I was able to snag a 2016 65" Samsung KS8000 for a couple hundred over a grand a couple of weeks ago. Now I'm on the fence, wondering if I should return it and wait for the $1000 65" TCL.

Any advice? I'm guessing I'd give up color, peak brightness, and motion performance for contrast and less blooming?
You'll be waiting until the end of the year.

I'd really like to find out whether this TV can handle 24p judder free playback. If not I probably not bother waiting for the 65".

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post #373 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post
You'll be waiting until the end of the year.

I'd really like to find out whether this TV can handle 24p judder free playback. If not I probably not bother waiting for the 65".
Imagic already said movies play just fine

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post #374 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
That's correct, I neither own nor do I currently have a review unit of either a 2017 Vizio M or a 2016/2017 Vizio P. I saw both in NYC last month, and wrote up my impressions here. But without one in my studio, I can't make comments about what a comparison with this TCL is like.


Vizio tech support says the M series can peak at 700 nits, but it's coming from them... honestly when I had it side by side with the KS8000 it looked dimmer but quite good especially in HDR. How does the Tcl perform during daytime in a bright room?


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post #375 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 11:41 AM
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I ordered a 55, not willing to wait for the 65

Seems this tv is now #4 on the Amazon sales rank, behind 3 other TCL tvs.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestseller...onics_1_4_last

I want an inexpensive way to start enjoying HDR and 4k (and Roku). I really want a 65 but I am not willing to spend $3000+ for the very best brights or darks . I figure when the 65 tcl is available this 55 can go to the bedroom.

Brights

I really wanted peak nits over 1000 (e.g. KS8000) but I expect with DV I can get a very good experience with 600 nits if I watch in a more dimly lit room.

Darks

Native contrast near 8000 and 13000 with FALD gets into the limits of the human eye's ability to discern contrast. Not much benefit to paying more.



I have a 58 TCL now for which I paid $600 4 yrs ago. Its going to be interesting to see how big the difference is.
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post #376 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Hubert.J.Farnsworth View Post
Vizio tech support says the M series can peak at 700 nits, but it's coming from them... honestly when I had it side by side with the KS8000 it looked dimmer but quite good especially in HDR. How does the Tcl perform during daytime in a bright room?


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You are talking about the 2017 -right? When does it reach peak, when does it fall off and how quickly does it descend? I think that's important.
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post #377 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 12:00 PM
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Unfortunately we won't know until a review drops


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post #378 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cah95046 View Post
Seems this tv is now #4 on the Amazon sales rank, behind 3 other TCL tvs.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestseller...onics_1_4_last

I want an inexpensive way to start enjoying HDR and 4k (and Roku). I really want a 65 but I am not willing to spend $3000+ for the very best brights or darks . I figure when the 65 tcl is available this 55 can go to the bedroom.
I'm seriously considering doing the same thing.

edit: I'm now officially on that wagon (sitting on the preorder wait list). I guess I just needed someone to agree with me in order to bite the bullet. Hubby thinks I'm crazy when it comes to tvs and audio equipment.
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post #379 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 12:23 PM
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Unfortunately we won't know until a review drops


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Right. So that number means little and yet people are throwing it all over the place. That's my point.

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post #380 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 12:27 PM
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TCL Launches P-Series & C-Series 4K Roku TVs with HDR Dolby Vision Launch

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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post
Right. So that number means little and yet people are throwing it all over the place. That's my point.

Yeah, well people at Vizio are throwing it around that's why


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post #381 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 12:37 PM
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Eh. I only have 1 TV and that's in the living room, so I need at least a 65". I was counting on the TCL 65P.

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post #382 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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So, regarding this TCL P-Series with HDR10 patterns... Still in Move mode, still with color temp Warm, still with calibrated settings, still sustained readings (not peak)... HDR "Dark" mode with TV Brightness set to Brighter, and local dimming on high...

With those settings, a sustained 745 nits in a 25% window is the highest reading I've gotten so far. 18% window is 735 nits. With these settings, 100% window measures 640 nits and a 10% window measures 581 nits, so peak brightness is not constant like in my other HDR measurements but the highest measurement I got is a significant leap.
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post #383 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 01:58 PM
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Yes I do. I have a PS4 Pro with Uncharted 4.
Great, looking forward to your impressions on that.
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post #384 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Still in Move mode, still with color temp Warm, still with calibrated settings, still sustained readings (not peak)... HDR "Dark" mode with TV Brightness set to Brighter, and local dimming on high...

A sustained 745 nits in a 25% window is the highest reading I've gotten so far. 18% window is 735 nits. With these settings, 100% window measures 640 nits and a 10% window measures 581 nits, so peak brightness is not constant like in my other HDR measurements.
Are you watching HDR10 or DV encoded content?

Seems the local dimming algorithm may account for the variance in peak small window nits. A 25% area covers many zones while a 10% area just a few. I can see the algorithm limiting nits in mostly bright zones adjacent to dark zones to limit blooming.

What do you think?
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post #385 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you watching HDR10 or DV encoded content?

Seems the local dimming algorithm may account for the variance in peak small window nits. A 25% area covers many zones while a 10% area just a few. I can see the algorithm limiting nits in mostly bright zones adjacent to dark zones to limit blooming.

What do you think?
Working with HDR10 patterns. Sure, that's a good hypothesis.
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post #386 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 02:24 PM
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Still in Move mode, still with color temp Warm, still with calibrated settings, still sustained readings (not peak)... HDR "Dark" mode with TV Brightness set to Brighter, and local dimming on high...

With those settings, a sustained 745 nits in a 25% window is the highest reading I've gotten so far. 18% window is 735 nits. With these settings, 100% window measures 640 nits and a 10% window measures 581 nits, so peak brightness is not constant like in my other HDR measurements.
Are you talking about 2017 vizio m or tcl p?
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post #387 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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are you talking about 2017 vizio m or tcl p?
TCL P-Series

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post #388 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cah95046 View Post
Are you watching HDR10 or DV encoded content?



Seems the local dimming algorithm may account for the variance in peak small window nits. A 25% area covers many zones while a 10% area just a few. I can see the algorithm limiting nits in mostly bright zones adjacent to dark zones to limit blooming.



What do you think?


Yeah I've always wondered if we should be testing highlight area surrounded by something like grey or 50-100nit white as most the time you're not going to see 1,000nits right next to black. I know Vizio will limit max brightness in cases like this to prevent blooming, so it doesn't do as well in some test patterns but looks better in real content (or so they claim, but it makes sense to me)
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post #389 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 02:31 PM
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So what reflections like on the tv? I have 2016 Vizio p I love it but, bad glare even with me having black out curtains its frustrating I could not even finish war machine on netflix do to the bad glare that cosed the back windows black out curtains to reflect onto the tv during a dark scene today.
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post #390 of 1431 Old 05-28-2017, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I've always wondered if we should be testing highlight area surrounded by something like grey or 50-100nit white as most the time you're not going to see 1,000nits right next to black. I know Vizio will limit max brightness in cases like this to prevent blooming, so it doesn't do as well in some test patterns but looks better in real content (or so they claim, but it makes sense to me)
This year you will see more use of dynamic test patterns that put a white square in the middle of actual content.

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