TCL Launches P-Series & C-Series 4K Roku TVs with HDR Dolby Vision Launch - Page 28 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #811 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by garnettrules21 View Post
he seems to find more cons than the other two reviews. Light bloom, washed out shadows, higher input lag, etc.
Input lag measurement looks like it is basically the same, just depends where on the screen you measure it. The PC Mag numbers are "middle of the screen" measurements. You'll see a small fluctuation in the +/- 0.1 to +/- 0.3 millisecond range, depending on exactly where you place the meter. I sought the lowest number I could repeatedly measure from that middle of the screen pattern. Point is, 14.5 and 15.1 milliseconds are not at all far apart.the TCL is great if you want low lag.

Yes, it's true, this TV can't do OLED blacks except in the letterbox bars. Otherwise, the native contrast plus some help from FALD is the limiting factor, given that it's a transmissive TV. A scene that trips up this TV is going to be a scene that trips up just about any FALD display, IMO. "It means you don't get quite the inky blacks of an OLED" is truly quite the compliment for this TCL.
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Last edited by imagic; 06-09-2017 at 05:35 AM.
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post #812 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by sharky974 View Post
Seems to be just one new review, not sure if it was posted yet. It's impressive in line with the other 2 reviews.
Thanks for posting this. It doesn't do anything to quell the hype, that's for sure. Confirming everything Mark has reported here. More broad strokes than Mark (who can really go into THIS much detail given the forums?) After reading this, I'm just as excited as I was for their input lag, WCG and real world movie watching report.

I had pre-ordered this in hopes to see these exact types of reviews. Cannot wait to get my hands on this.
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post #813 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 07:05 AM
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post #814 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 07:06 AM
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This site also did a review that I found through TCL's twitter

Can't link it because I haven't posted 5 times yet but just add http to this.

televisions.reviewed.com/content/tcl-p-series-tv-review
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post #815 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm feeling good to have posted about this TV first, and to have the reviews that follow support my conclusions.

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post #816 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I'm feeling good to have posted about this TV first, and to have the reviews that follow support my conclusions.
You da man!

So I noticed the televisions.com review said the reviewer couldn't find any type of motion settings. Did you find them during your time with the tv? I thought all tv's have those settings to enable or disable the soap opera effect?
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post #817 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 07:37 AM
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These newer reviews are sort of bringing the set back down to reality a bit. All of them are positive, but it does show that this is a value set and isn't really a class leader in any aspect, and there are some issues. Going off of rting's review of the 2017 Vizio M series (assuming all sizes in that line have the same picture quality, they didn't last year), I'd say that TV and this one are probably neck and neck in terms of picture quality, with the TCL being a better value.
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post #818 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I'm feeling good to have posted about this TV first, and to have the reviews that follow support my conclusions.
@imagic , that televisions.reviewed.com review seems to indicate findings that conflict with yours, about the brightness of the screen varying between full-screen and 10% scenes. Am I just misunderstanding? I thought in your measurements, the TV's brightness was always pretty much exactly the same, no matter what was being displayed?
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post #819 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by sharky974 View Post
Seems to be just one new review, not sure if it was posted yet. It's impressive in line with the other 2 reviews. http://www.pcmag.com/review/354173/tcl-55p607
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Originally Posted by garnettrules21 View Post
he seems to find more cons than the other two reviews. Light bloom, washed out shadows, higher input lag, etc.
Hmm, i don't think he specifically talked about local dimming performance *at all*, which Reviewed.com said was problematic.
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post #820 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 08:14 AM
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I just really hope the review units going out haven't been cherry picked/tweaked to perform better than the set normally will. The 4k.com reviewer said all of his people he brought over for a test viewing preferred the TCL above even a Vizio P Series, and it was a toss-up between the TCL and an X900E. But the pcmag.com and televisions.reviewed.com reviews don't seem to indicate such high quality.
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post #821 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by theboomr View Post
I just really hope the review units going out haven't been cherry picked/tweaked to perform better than the set normally will. The 4k.com reviewer said all of his people he brought over for a test viewing preferred the TCL above even a Vizio P Series, and it was a toss-up between the TCL and an X900E. But the pcmag.com and televisions.reviewed.com reviews don't seem to indicate such high quality.
Wirecutter said the same, fwiw. At the end of the day, parsing semantics is what's going to happen. Here's a tip, reviewers don't choose words as carefully as poets do, so try not to read too much into exactly how a trait is described. More often than not you've got a glass-half-empty, glass-half-full type situation where the fact is 50% of the grass contains liquid but as we all know, how that's described affects how it's perceived.
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post #822 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by theboomr View Post
I just really hope the review units going out haven't been cherry picked/tweaked to perform better than the set normally will. The 4k.com reviewer said all of his people he brought over for a test viewing preferred the TCL above even a Vizio P Series, and it was a toss-up between the TCL and an X900E. But the pcmag.com and televisions.reviewed.com reviews don't seem to indicate such high quality.

The televisions.reviewed.com reviewer's comments on the FALD short comings are a bit concerning. Curious why other reviewers haven't pointed that out and like you am curious if this is a problem with all the sets or a general quality control problem that may only impact some models.

The PCMAg review I will not trust just because I happen to know that publication has been guilty in the past of showing bias in reviews based on outside incentives. Not saying that happens with every review they publish or in this case, but when I consider the value of review I have quite a few larger publications I take with a grain of salt and look for the overall composite score from many reviews.
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post #823 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by theboomr View Post
I just really hope the review units going out haven't been cherry picked/tweaked to perform better than the set normally will. The 4k.com reviewer said all of his people he brought over for a test viewing preferred the TCL above even a Vizio P Series, and it was a toss-up between the TCL and an X900E. But the pcmag.com and televisions.reviewed.com reviews don't seem to indicate such high quality.
PC Mag gave it 4 out of 5 stars so that says to me that the quality isn't trash. TV Reviewed seems to have come to a similar conclusion. Long story short, when you're at the price point the TCL is at and the sets used to provide perspective are the LG OLEDs, the Vizio P, and the Samsung QLEDs, and Sonys above the 850....that says the only way to be beat is by the higher end and more expensive units of the big manufacturers line-up. That says a lot about this set.

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post #824 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 08:42 AM
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PC Mag gave it 4 out of 5 stars so that says to me that the quality isn't trash. TV Reviewed seems to have come to a similar conclusion. Long story short, when you're at the price point the TCL is at and the sets used to provide perspective are the LG OLEDs, the Vizio P, and the Sony QLEDs....that says the only way to be beat is by the higher end and more expensive units of the big manufacturers line-up. That says a lot about this set.
True. I'm just looking for consistency across reviews, or explanations for the inconsistencies.
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post #825 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by theboomr View Post
True. I'm just looking for consistency across reviews, or explanations for the inconsistencies.
It's mostly the fact that human beings write reviews, not robots. Unless the test procedures and equipment used is identical, you're going to get variations. Same goes with the exact footage used to evaluate the TV, not to mention the fact that people's subjective view and experience is typically is not the same from person to person and that includes reviewers. For example, back in the plasma era, it used to amaze me that other reviewers simply did not see the flickering.

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post #826 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 09:04 AM
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Just placed my order. Showing Aug. 23, 2017 - Sept. 11, 2017 delivery.
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post #827 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 09:18 AM
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The one immutable scientific fact is that there's no bad products, only bad prices.

Seriously, though, this TCL seems to be a great TV at an even better price. That hopefully means good things to come in the near future for those on tight budgets as well as those prepared to spend two to three times the price on a better TV. Competition is a wonderful thing.
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post #828 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Youcan1 View Post
These newer reviews are sort of bringing the set back down to reality a bit. All of them are positive, but it does show that this is a value set and isn't really a class leader in any aspect, and there are some issues. Going off of rting's review of the 2017 Vizio M series (assuming all sizes in that line have the same picture quality, they didn't last year), I'd say that TV and this one are probably neck in neck in terms of picture quality, with the TCL being a better value.
a better value by 40% price wise... if you do math that's by about A LOT... the pic quality on the m series is arguably similar to the higher end tv's (lcd)..so further extrapolating that makes the tcl similar to high end tv pictures at 1/3 to 1/2 the price ... now ... somebody explain to me how that's not great for us silly @ss consumers that are smart enough not to drop 4 grand on a q led
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post #829 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
a better value by 40% price wise... if you do math that's by about A LOT... the pic quality on the m series is arguably similar to the higher end tv's (lcd)..so further extrapolating that makes the tcl similar to high end tv pictures at 1/3 to 1/2 the price ... now ... somebody explain to me how that's not great for us silly @ss consumers that are smart enough not to drop 4 grand on a q led
I agree with you. I'm still keeping my order (as long as the TV ships within the next month anyway). This TV is about as good as anyone could expect at this price point.
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post #830 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 10:14 AM
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Not as long, but we have 3 TCL TV's (50" and 32" Roku and a non-smart 40") at work that are over 18 months old, and we've had no issues with any of them.

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I have a 48" TCL Roku that's about 2 years old. I'm extremely pleased with it and not even sure why I'm replacing it with this one. :-)
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post #831 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 10:37 AM
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Just placed my order. Showing Aug. 23, 2017 - Sept. 11, 2017 delivery.

Interesting. I ordered very early on day 1 and my order still says Aug 3 - Aug 21.

This reminds me of what happened with the Echo Dot. People who ordered on day 1 got an estimate of X but it proved so popular that as each day went by the estimated ship date for new orders got later and later.

This set went "out of stock" temporarily I think late on day 1 or maybe day 2 of availability before coming back for new orders. It happened the same way with the Dot, which implies that TCL had a limited number manufactured and those will go to the early adopters. Maybe once they saw the demand they ramped up production and those will go to people who ordered after it went out of stock on day 1.
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post #832 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 10:39 AM
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Just placed my order. Showing Aug. 23, 2017 - Sept. 11, 2017 delivery.
Don't worry. I placed my order on Thursday May 25th within 30 minutes of it going "on sale" from $799 to $599 and my deliver window is showing as Aug 3rd and Aug 21. Others here have reported the early Aug window and I don't think anyone has a closer window than early Aug at this point. We might can infer from your date window that Amazon has sold through their first expected batch and is setting delivery dates now for their second expected shipment.
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post #833 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 10:58 AM
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Just to add a disquieting note, I asked on the Amazon page for the TV a question directed to TCL (which has been answering questions there) about the delivery date. Amazon emailed me the following:

Your recent discussion board post was found to be outside our guidelines. In order to facilitate customer participation in our discussion boards, we encourage them to discuss the topic and information related to it. However, posts which are outside our guidelines will be removed.
And they indeed removed my question in blatant disregard of their guidelines. This suggests they are trying to prevent TCL from answering.

Meanwhile, to respond to the reliability question, I bought my current TCL used five years ago and it's running fine.

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post #834 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 11:44 AM
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Just to add a disquieting note, I asked on the Amazon page for the TV a question directed to TCL (which has been answering questions there) about the delivery date. Amazon emailed me the following:

Your recent discussion board post was found to be outside our guidelines. In order to facilitate customer participation in our discussion boards, we encourage them to discuss the topic and information related to it. However, posts which are outside our guidelines will be removed.
And they indeed removed my question in blatant disregard of their guidelines. This suggests they are trying to prevent TCL from answering.

Meanwhile, to respond to the reliability question, I bought my current TCL used five years ago and it's running fine.
It actually is in their stated guidelines that questions about product availability should not be asked. Have a look:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/forum/cont...uidelines.html

No doubt this is so Amazon.com's Q&A for a product doesn't lead a customer to false hopes of availability, but the interesting thing is this question was not only asked in 55P607 product Q&A but TCL USA was allowed to provide a response (they replied "available mid-June", which seems to be what they are holding to) and Amazon decided to take it down. From May 25th until May 28th I was frequenting the Q&A for this product a few times a day and I'm 100% sure an answer was given by the vendor, it was allowed to stay up for a few days and then Amazon removed it.

I don't believe Amazon is planning to withhold this TV's release for any reason, but their hesitance to give exacting product release dates on some televisions and not others is interesting. To try and get a more firm answer, I e-mailed TCL USA customer support a few days ago asking if they could clarify if the "mid-June availablity" was when the set would be leaving TCL's warehouses to wholesale and retail or if Mid-June is the anticipated date retailers will have it for sale. I'd suspect there's at minimum 3-5 business day gap. I explained my concerns Amazon's confusing expected time window and my travel plans for early July. Not trying to nit-pick the dates but need to make plans to have someone watch for and pick the set up while I'm gone, change the shipping date with amazon or perhaps buy a different model. Asking "what date do you anticipate these to head out to retailers" seems like a trivial question any vendor could answer the month of release.

I'm very interested in what incentives there are at play preventing a clear answer but I'm sure we'll never know so I'm ust trying to stay optimistic and assume we'll start to hear of firm dates from Amazon.com starting sometime middle of next week.
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post #835 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 12:07 PM
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Interesting. I ordered very early on day 1 and my order still says Aug 3 - Aug 21.

This reminds me of what happened with the Echo Dot. People who ordered on day 1 got an estimate of X but it proved so popular that as each day went by the estimated ship date for new orders got later and later.

This set went "out of stock" temporarily I think late on day 1 or maybe day 2 of availability before coming back for new orders. It happened the same way with the Dot, which implies that TCL had a limited number manufactured and those will go to the early adopters. Maybe once they saw the demand they ramped up production and those will go to people who ordered after it went out of stock on day 1.
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Don't worry. I placed my order on Thursday May 25th within 30 minutes of it going "on sale" from $799 to $599 and my deliver window is showing as Aug 3rd and Aug 21. Others here have reported the early Aug window and I don't think anyone has a closer window than early Aug at this point. We might can infer from your date window that Amazon has sold through their first expected batch and is setting delivery dates now for their second expected shipment.
I'm not worried about it one way or the other. When it gets here it gets here. This is going in my bedroom, and will replace a Sony XBR65x900A, which I'm giving to my son for his new home. ( just closed this morning )

In the mean time, I will just move a set from another room to my bedroom.
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post #836 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 12:36 PM
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It's mostly the fact that human beings write reviews, not robots. Unless the test procedures and equipment used is identical, you're going to get variations. Same goes with the exact footage used to evaluate the TV, not to mention the fact that people's subjective view and experience is typically is not the same from person to person and that includes reviewers. For example, back in the plasma era, it used to amaze me that other reviewers simply did not see the flickering.
So since I heard some comments about the shadowing, fald performance etc I made a small vid using a modded graphics version of V that I think would be great to test it out to it's limits(which I am sure you have done extensively lol) but would you mind giving it a quick look?

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=ERc-_BFvhiw
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post #837 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 12:37 PM
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It actually is in their stated guidelines that questions about product availability should not be asked. Have a look:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/forum/cont...uidelines.html
Strange, rmz76, but those are not the guidelines they linked to in their email to me. They linked to this page: https://www.amazon.com/gp/forum/cont...idelines.html/

It's a relief to think they just got the wrong link, rather than violated their own policy. From your story, though, they did silence TCL. Ah well, the TVs will arrive when they arrive and, in the meantime, we have the subtle pleasure of anticipation. I'm all the more anticipating the TV because I did some research in viewing distance and discovered pixel density is not the whole story, that I'll be uncomfortably close for a 65" model, and thus can look forward to the 55" model without any ambivalence.

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post #838 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 01:15 PM
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Kudos to you brave souls who are ordering sight unseen , but the noted FALD oddness (in the reviews that bothered to even mention it) and lack of motion adjustments is a bit troubling. But at the price, maybe it doesn't matter???
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post #839 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Kudos to you brave souls who are ordering sight unseen , but the noted FALD oddness (in the reviews that bothered to even mention it) and lack of motion adjustments is a bit troubling. But at the price, maybe it doesn't matter???
FALD algorithms can and do get updated through firmware. We're talking about a TV... so new it has not yet shipped... so I'm not ready to ding it for that.

The lack of motion processing should not be a deal-breaker except for folks who like soap opera effect-style smoothing.
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post #840 of 1431 Old 06-09-2017, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by eelpout View Post
Kudos to you brave souls who are ordering sight unseen , but the noted FALD oddness (in the reviews that bothered to even mention it) and lack of motion adjustments is a bit troubling. But at the price, maybe it doesn't matter???
Motion is really not a big concern for me, imagic and the other reviewers have all stated that movies play back with no judder, which is the only situation where it would be a concern for me. As for FALD, honestly I don't think I'm gonna be that sensitive to it. I had the Vizio P55 which is an IPS panel not VA, and so FALD blooming was pretty easy to see with logos (like Netflix) against pure black, but that didn't bother me either. In real content I highly doubt I'll be susceptible to any minor things going on with the FALD in the TCL. If it really is noticeable enough that it bothers me then I might try to return it, but I am not anticipating having to do that.
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