TCL Launches P-Series & C-Series 4K Roku TVs with HDR Dolby Vision Launch - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 12:45 PM
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My sister in law is just moving into her first home now. This would be perfect for her! Looks to be sold out on Amazon though.
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post #182 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 12:47 PM
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I have not settled on a way to quantify the performance of screen coatings yet, but it's something I've been thinking about recently, for sure.
Ya i suppose its hard to write a review on a screen coating lol. I wish TV manufacturers gave an option to not include a coating for people who watch in dark rooms.

As for the other specs, they are extremely impressive at the price point. I honestly dont get how they can manufacture a 120hz 10bit (i assume 10 bit with that color volume?) for that price, but im not complaining
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post #183 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 12:52 PM
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Ya i suppose its hard to write a review on a screen coating lol. I wish TV manufacturers gave an option to not include a coating for people who watch in dark rooms.

As for the other specs, they are extremely impressive at the price point. I honestly dont get how they can manufacture a 120hz 10bit (i assume 10 bit with that color volume?) for that price, but im not complaining
The only possible explanation I can think of for how they're managing this price is that TCL has 100% vertical integration for the production of their TVs, meaning they are producing every bit of hardware in them, which costs less than buying parts from other manufacturers.

I also expect these are being sold at razor-thin profits (if any at all, video game consoles are often sold at a loss initially just to get sales boosted) so that they can get a nice advantage of loyal customers in the US, and then in the next few generations of their TVs they'll probably increase the prices to make a better profit.
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post #184 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 12:58 PM
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The 55P607 performs so well, it genuinely qualifies as disruptive.
Oh my.
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post #185 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by theboomr View Post
The only possible explanation I can think of for how they're managing this price is that TCL has 100% vertical integration for the production of their TVs, meaning they are producing every bit of hardware in them, which costs less than buying parts from other manufacturers.

I also expect these are being sold at razor-thin profits (if any at all, video game consoles are often sold at a loss initially just to get sales boosted) so that they can get a nice advantage of loyal customers in the US, and then in the next few generations of their TVs they'll probably increase the prices to make a better profit.
Ya and on top of the TV's specs its also got (i assume) a roku ultra inside of it, which retail for like 120 bucks.
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post #186 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
Ya and on top of the TV's specs its also got (i assume) a roku ultra inside of it, which retail for like 120 bucks.
I know right, initially the Roku OS was looking like the biggest selling point of this set for me, and I figured the hardware specs would be mostly mediocre, maybe matching a Vizio P in a couple areas but mostly falling a bit behind. But now Roku OS is just like the icing on the cake, this TV seems like it would already be an amazing set even without Roku!
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post #187 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:09 PM
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Several measurements in the Calibration and Performance section of the first look mention post-calibration.

I pre-ordered today. How would I go about getting it calibrated? Keep in mind, I don't own a colorimeter or spectrophotometer.
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post #188 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
Ya i suppose its hard to write a review on a screen coating lol. I wish TV manufacturers gave an option to not include a coating for people who watch in dark rooms.

As for the other specs, they are extremely impressive at the price point. I honestly dont get how they can manufacture a 120hz 10bit (i assume 10 bit with that color volume?) for that price, but im not complaining
Someone correct me, but I believe to be Dolby Vision certified the 55P607 would have to support 12-bit color volume... HDR10 is 10-bit which is obtainable on the 55S403 which has an MSRP of about hundred and fifty less.
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post #189 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Flaky View Post
Several measurements in the Calibration and Performance section of the first look mention post-calibration.

I pre-ordered today. How would I go about getting it calibrated? Keep in mind, I don't own a colorimeter or spectrophotometer.
That's a very good point, one I hadn't considered. To be fair, I'm pretty sure all of Rtings measurements are also post-calibration, and that's where most of us get our numbers from for all the specs.

I've never had a TV calibrated before but from what I understand, the best option is to find someone who provides an in-home service in your area, that way their calibration will take your room's actual lighting into account, whereas if you take the TV into a shop, they can't mimic your home's exact lighting situations. I'm pretty sure a calibration is fairly expensive, though.
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post #190 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rmz76 View Post
Someone correct me, but I believe to be Dolby Vision certified the 55P607 would have to support 12-bit color volume... HDR10 is 10-bit which is obtainable on the 55S403 which has an MSRP of about hundred and fifty less.
There are no 12-bit TVs right now. I don't think any of today's DV TVs count as being officially "Dolby Vision certified", they just support receiving a Dolby Vision signal. And DV does still have some advantages over HDR10 even without using a 12-bit display vs 10-bit display.
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post #191 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:19 PM
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So is it normal to be showing that it is a 120hz even though its really not? I don't really know how these measurements are gathered but it definitely is interesting.

Here is TCL response from amazon that someone asked the question.

The P-Series uses a combination of advanced back light scanning to enhance the native refresh rate of the LCD panel (60Hz or 60 frames per second) and present an effective refresh rate (what your eye sees) of 120Hz, or 120 frames per second. This is why you see the different specs listed - but the result is a smooth, blur free image, perfect for fast moving sports or video games, without any signal processing artifacts.

Hope this helps,
TCL USA Support
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post #192 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by garnettrules21 View Post
So is it normal to be showing that it is a 120hz even though its really not? I don't really know how these measurements are gathered but it definitely is interesting.

Here is TCL response from amazon that someone asked the question.

The P-Series uses a combination of advanced back light scanning to enhance the native refresh rate of the LCD panel (60Hz or 60 frames per second) and present an effective refresh rate (what your eye sees) of 120Hz, or 120 frames per second. This is why you see the different specs listed - but the result is a smooth, blur free image, perfect for fast moving sports or video games, without any signal processing artifacts.

Hope this helps,
TCL USA Support
It is normal for manufacturers to list their higher "effective" refresh rates for marketing purposes even though that's not the real refresh rate of the panel. For example, the Vizio P Series is a real 120hz panel, but it is marketed as having 960hz clear-vision, or whatever their term for it is.

I'm not sure though how @imagic is measuring "real" 120hz on his unit if TCL has explicitly stated it is a 60hz panel.
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post #193 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by theboomr View Post
I'm not sure though how @imagic is measuring "real" 120hz on his unit if TCL has explicitly stated it is a 60hz panel.
Yea, this was mainly what I was wondering.
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post #194 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garnettrules21 View Post
So is it normal to be showing that it is a 120hz even though its really not? I don't really know how these measurements are gathered but it definitely is interesting.

Here is TCL response from amazon that someone asked the question.

The P-Series uses a combination of advanced back light scanning to enhance the native refresh rate of the LCD panel (60Hz or 60 frames per second) and present an effective refresh rate (what your eye sees) of 120Hz, or 120 frames per second. This is why you see the different specs listed - but the result is a smooth, blur free image, perfect for fast moving sports or video games, without any signal processing artifacts.

Hope this helps,
TCL USA Support
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Originally Posted by theboomr View Post
It is normal for manufacturers to list their higher "effective" refresh rates for marketing purposes even though that's not the real refresh rate of the panel. For example, the Vizio P Series is a real 120hz panel, but it is marketed as having 960hz clear-vision, or whatever their term for it is.

I'm not sure though how @imagic is measuring "real" 120hz on his unit if TCL has explicitly stated it is a 60hz panel.
OK you guys are right, the specs refer to "120Hz clear motion index" not native 120 Hz. I dunno, I'll pass this question back to TCL. My meter reports 120 Hz but maybe there's strobing that's giving that reading.. I'll hedge my bets for now and edit the post...
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Last edited by imagic; 05-26-2017 at 01:32 PM.
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post #195 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:32 PM
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@imagic , wouldn't the quickest way to determine real vs effective refresh rate be to plug a PC into it and see if you can send a 120hz signal? Of course, that only works if you have a PC capable of outputting that Although I think there have been some TVs that have had native 120hz panels but didn't actually accept 120hz signals, they only used it for interpolation and post-processing effects...
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post #196 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by theboomr View Post
@imagic , wouldn't the quickest way to determine real vs effective refresh rate be to plug a PC into it and see if you can send a 120hz signal? Of course, that only works if you have a PC capable of outputting that Although I think there have been some TVs that have had native 120hz panels but didn't actually accept 120hz signals, they only used it for interpolation and post-processing effects...
The absence of motion interpolation is in fact a strong hint that it is a 60 Hz panel with backlight scanning, and that's why my meter reported what it did. Waiting for final word from TCL, but I think that's what's up. My bad for jumping to that conclusion.

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post #197 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:43 PM
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The absence of motion interpolation is in fact a strong hint that it is a 60 Hz panel with backlight scanning, and that's why my meter reported what it did. Waiting for final word from TCL, but I think that's what's up. My bad for jumping to that conclusion.
Figures, they gotta cut costs somewhere! Honestly though, while it is nice to have real 120hz, it's definitely not a dealbreaker for me.
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post #198 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
Ya i suppose its hard to write a review on a screen coating lol. I wish TV manufacturers gave an option to not include a coating for people who watch in dark rooms.

As for the other specs, they are extremely impressive at the price point. I honestly dont get how they can manufacture a 120hz 10bit (i assume 10 bit with that color volume?) for that price, but im not complaining
Color volume has nothing to do with 8, 10, or 12 bits per color. Bit depth affects banding.

Color volume (max color) depends on backlight, phosphors, QD, color filters etc.

If you have an 8 bit panel, 256 will be assigned to max color. A 10 bit panel will assign 1024 to max color. A 12 panel will assign 4096 to max color.

Last edited by cah95046; 05-26-2017 at 02:00 PM.
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post #199 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 02:05 PM
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Color volume has nothing to do with 8, 10, or 12 bits per color. Bit depth affects banding.

Color volume (max color) depends on backlight, phosphors, QD, color filters etc.

If you have an 8 bit panel, 256 will be assigned to max color. A 10 bit panel will assign 1024 to max color. A 12 panel will assign 4096 to max color.
Ah right, probably a common misconception you have to correct a lot around here. I just know in the past true 10 bit panels(for tv's and monitors) were an indication of a much higher quality display.
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post #200 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Full SDR (BT.709) calibration report using default movie mode settings now posted at the end of the article. More to come.

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post #201 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 02:13 PM
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Ah right, probably a common misconception you have to correct a lot around here. I just know in the past true 10 bit panels(for tv's and monitors) were an indication of a much higher quality display.
True. More bits per color avoids banding, resulting in a superior picture. (Although, one can dither an 8 bit panel to make it perform like a 10 bit panel.)
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post #202 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 02:14 PM
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How come you couldn't test gaming input lag at 4k? And since the lag at 1080P is excellent, can we assume it will also be good at 4k?
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post #203 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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How come you couldn't test gaming input lag at 4k? And since the lag at 1080P is excellent, can we assume it will also be good at 4k?
The lag tester is 1080p and I don't have a zero latency scaler to make it 4K (they are available, I have not forked over the dough to buy one). Yes, the low lag should translate to 4K.

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post #204 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 02:17 PM
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Do we know if this is an 8 or 10 bit? Any quick impressions on how the FALD performed? Did you happen to see how the upscaling works? I will be doing a lot of DirecTV watching so hopefully it performs well enough. Really glad I talked myself into getting this tv last night. Thanks again Mark for your impressions. I find myself constantly refreshing this thread lol.
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post #205 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Do we know if this is an 8 or 10 bit? Any quick impressions on how the FALD performed? Did you happen to see how the upscaling works? I will be doing a lot of DirecTV watching so hopefully it performs well enough. Really glad I talked myself into getting this tv last night. Thanks again Mark for your impressions. I find myself constantly refreshing this thread lol.
I don't know for an absolute fact if it's a native 10-bit panel. But per Scott Wilkinson's article on determining bit depth, if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, and in this case if it renders smooth gradients with 10-bit patterns (which this TV does) then you are good to go.

Having said that, I'll query TCL on this topic and see what I learn.
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post #206 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 02:23 PM
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I find myself constantly refreshing this thread lol.
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post #207 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 02:26 PM
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Thanks for the review, Mark. I have been waiting since CES to confirm if this TV was going to be the disruptive set I'd anticipated. Too bad to read that the 65" release will be later and it should also be exciting. I'll be okay for this 55" buy when I see it in Canada, eh!
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post #208 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 02:27 PM
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There is a ridiculous deal i posted in the deals thread for a M60 from last year, but alas i cannot fit it in my car so i am also now more interested in this set lol. I mainly care about how well the local dimming works and how dolby stuff looks on it. Would also like a general how do the colors "pop" when set next to a ks8000 or a vizio P.
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post #209 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 02:29 PM
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Nice to see TCL came throug on this one. It's a shame it's not going to come in any large sizes though.

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post #210 of 1431 Old 05-26-2017, 02:33 PM
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Do you have any native contrast readings on the panel? I think this is the key to whether or not the TCL P series will disrupt the previously disruptive Vizio P series.
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