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post #1 of 38 Old 06-10-2017, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Question 4k TV as a PC monitor

I got the idea to buy a 43" 4k TV as a PC monitor.
The graphics card is a Radeon RX 480 2x HDMI 2.0b outputs
I know I need a TV with 4:4:4 chroma subsampling, I think most HDR TV should have it.
Any ideas, tips, thoughts, experiences?
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post #2 of 38 Old 06-10-2017, 07:51 PM
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I've had the same idea for awhile and today picked up a Sharp (Hisense) 43" TV for a good price. Got 4:4:4 to work, which is very important. However, it's not as crisp and clear as a computer monitor. Apparently native resolution and 4:4:4 chroma aren't the only things that affect sharpness of the display. I can only explain it as gray fringing in the corners. For example, the black maximize box on white title bar appears to have a single gray pixel in the corners, and open spaces in text also have this similar artifact. Nothing I could do on the TV to adjust this out. Maybe it's just a Hisense thing.

Another concern is PWM on an LED backlit TV, of which almost all are these days. Saw a study recently that 30% of people are sensitive to PWM and can see flicker. 10% get eyestrain and headaches from it. Sony is one of the few brands that don't exhibit PWM flicker, but the XBR43X800D is really pricey. I figured I'd take my chances and go with something cheaper.

Shawn
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post #3 of 38 Old 06-10-2017, 08:04 PM
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TV's just arent designed with that use case in mind, get a nice 1440p 144hz monitor and you will love it.
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post #4 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 01:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't think I need 144Hz ...

I was thinking of a monitor first, but there are only a few models in 43" - Philips and Acer, both have the same IPS panel with terrible image retention and then a Dell which is curved (I don't want a curved monitor) and expensive and that's it.

Actually my hottest candidate is the 43" Samsung KU6300 (Samsung UE43KU6072 here in Europe), the price is nice and the reviews OK, but I didn't find an extensive test as a monitor.


PS Most monitors do use PWM too.
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post #5 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HWTest View Post
I don't think I need 144Hz ...

I was thinking of a monitor first, but there are only a few models in 43" - Philips and Acer, both have the same IPS panel with terrible image retention and then a Dell which is curved (I don't want a curved monitor) and expensive and that's it.

Actually my hottest candidate is the 43" Samsung KU6300 (Samsung UE43KU6072 here in Europe), the price is nice and the reviews OK, but I didn't find an extensive test as a monitor.


PS Most monitors do use PWM too.
43" is enormous for a PC monitor, are you sitting from a couch? In that case you are not looking for a monitor, but a TV lol. Heed our warnings tho, TV's do not make good monitors. There is a reason TV's are cheap in comparison, they do a second rate job for the task at hand.
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post #6 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 01:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually I have a 24" Full HD monitor, if I want 4k and texts, icons be the same size, I would need 48".
I can imagine how big it will be - a little bit smaller, than two of my 24" monitor and another two on top of them :-)
Can you elaborate/be specific, why a TV is a bad monitor?
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post #7 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HWTest View Post
Actually I have a 24" Full HD monitor, if I want 4k and texts, icons be the same size, I would need 48".
I can imagine how big it will be - a little bit smaller, than two of my 24" monitor and another two on top of them :-)
Can you elaborate/be specific, why a TV is a bad monitor?
Umm you realize windows auto detects a 4k monitor and sets scaling to 150% right? At 125% scaling on my 24" 1440p monitor icons and texts are about the same size as 100% scaling on a 1080p monitor, but look extra crispy due to the extra resolution. Dont worry about text at all, only a few apps wont have scaling support (i only have one, a world of warcraft addon manager, that has tiny text).

As for TV's not making good monitors i really cant give you a good answer, i just know ive never seen anyone happy with one....unless they have never experienced a good quality PC monitor (ignorance is bliss in that scenario).
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post #8 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 03:28 AM
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It can work. I use my 65" OLED as a PC monitor for my HTPC. No PC monitor can possibly compare, only thing it lacks is variable frame rate. PC monitors are kind of a miserable affair, particularly IPS, which is 95% of the high-end PC monitor market. Gray blacks and terrible flashlighting/uniformity are the rule, not the exception, along with motion trailing or overshoot.

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post #9 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 04:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
Umm you realize windows auto detects a 4k monitor and sets scaling to 150% right?
I didn't know that. All Windows - 7,8,8.1,10?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
It can work. I use my 65" OLED as a PC monitor for my HTPC. No PC monitor can possibly compare, only thing it lacks is variable frame rate. PC monitors are kind of a miserable affair, particularly IPS, which is 95% of the high-end PC monitor market. Gray blacks and terrible flashlighting/uniformity are the rule, not the exception, along with motion trailing or overshoot.
That's the kind of information I was seeking for, specific experience with a specific TV. Thank you :-)
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post #10 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 05:56 AM
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I've been using 65 inch tv's as monitors since 2012. With a wireless keyboard and mouse, it's awesome to chill on your sofa and do your computing and browsing.

Aside from 4:4:4, the biggest issue you will have is screen uniformity and dirty screen effect (DSE). Most of the PC applications I use have a white background (browsers, file explorer, word, etc.) As such, any imperfections in the tv screen are very noticeable. Its like watching a hockey game where you see all the flaws in the screen as the camera pans against the white ice).

Some of the lower end TV's that I've experimented with can show a TV signal, or a Streaming video signal very cleanly. Those same lower end TV's when showing a signal from a computer do not do as well. I'm not sure why. You may have to experiment with different TV's before you find one that works for you.

I'm now using a Sony 65 inch XBR900e and it works great. Best flaw free screen I've seen. I wanted and tried the Vizio but it had to many screen flaws. The Samsung seems to be middle of the road. It has screen artifacts that are visible, but just barely noticeable.

Also, depending on how many windows or video streams you will be watching your video card may struggle. I think your Radeon is roughly equivalent to a Nvidia GTX 1060. It will really be working your video card and the card will heat up and the fans will be going on max. It's not so bad if you are using mainly static windows. But for gaming or if you have multiple streaming video windows going on, your Radeon is going to be maxed out.

Good info here: http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/bes...age/pc-monitor

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Bedroom: Sony 65XBR900E
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Retired Units: Vizio P65-F, Vizio M653DSV, Samsung UN40KU6290

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post #11 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
43" is enormous for a PC monitor, are you sitting from a couch? In that case you are not looking for a monitor, but a TV lol. Heed our warnings tho, TV's do not make good monitors. There is a reason TV's are cheap in comparison, they do a second rate job for the task at hand.
Agree. PC monitors main function is reading that is why a 15.6 inch, the industry standard for laptops, will do. Once a while i use a 46 inch as a monitor, i noticed i need to sit at 1 meter max or so otherwise my eyes get easily fatigued. Reading can best be done sitting up close, letters don't need to be big.
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post #12 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 07:12 AM
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I use my 55KS8000 with my 1080 GTX rig and it's awesome. I don't even use 4:4:4 and it seems fine to me. I use game mode cause the colours are way over saturated in PC mode cause it makes you use Native Color space on my particular TV
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post #13 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 10:30 AM
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I use LG 43UJ752T as a monitor. It does 4:4:4 @4026*2160 60hz. Also 1920*1080 @120 hz. it's very sharp and crisp. Off topic can anyone direct me to a settings page it can find it anywhere.
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post #14 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 03:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
It can work. I use my 65" OLED as a PC monitor for my HTPC. No PC monitor can possibly compare, only thing it lacks is variable frame rate. PC monitors are kind of a miserable affair, particularly IPS, which is 95% of the high-end PC monitor market. Gray blacks and terrible flashlighting/uniformity are the rule, not the exception, along with motion trailing or overshoot.
"No PC monitor can possibly compare..."

Ahahahahahahahahahaha. Oh, those poor fools buying monitors, if only they knew the wisdom of Ozymandis.
I bet that OLED looks AMAZING with gray or white screens, with the typical perfect OLED uniformity and TOTAL lack of banding.
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post #15 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audacious nick View Post
"No PC monitor can possibly compare..."

Ahahahahahahahahahaha. Oh, those poor fools buying monitors, if only they knew the wisdom of Ozymandis.
I bet that OLED looks AMAZING with gray or white screens, with the typical perfect OLED uniformity and TOTAL lack of banding.
Ya poor me and my 165hz 1440p gsync monitor

Id love an OLED monitor, but they dont make them yet. But then again ive heard of people returning OLED TV's because of image retention and motion looked "off" to them.

Remember no technology is perfect, always trade offs.
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post #16 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 04:28 PM
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Been using TV's as my main PC monitor since 2007, They work plenty good enough as a monitor unless you have to have high frame rates because you are a competitive gamer. using my 65" KS8500 and it looks great as a PC monitor. The cheaper the TV you have will also play a role in how your TV works as a monitor. Also used an OLED 55" as a monitor till my cat broke it! Worked fine and had no permanent burn in effects using it as such, The ABL may bother some though with OLED as a PC monitor.
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post #17 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 05:59 PM
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I sit in front of a 49"" KS8000 40 plus hours a week. It works great. Anything much bigger on the desk is problematic for people of average height. A 55" would work if wall mounted or using a stand behind the desk. I tip the KS8000 foward slightly to reduce glare at the top of the screen.
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post #18 of 38 Old 06-11-2017, 11:19 PM
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Stick to Sony or Samsung. The dirt cheap Chinese brands invariably have some debilitating problems. Also avoid LG because they use half-resolution "fake 4K" panels.
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post #19 of 38 Old 06-12-2017, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audacious nick View Post
"No PC monitor can possibly compare..."

Ahahahahahahahahahaha. Oh, those poor fools buying monitors, if only they knew the wisdom of Ozymandis.
I bet that OLED looks AMAZING with gray or white screens, with the typical perfect OLED uniformity and TOTAL lack of banding.
Yes, it can hardly compare to IPS PC monitors, with their glowing gray blacks and flashlighting/terrible black uniformity

I should qualify my original statement by saying "for content consumption".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
Ya poor me and my 165hz 1440p gsync monitor

Id love an OLED monitor, but they dont make them yet. But then again ive heard of people returning OLED TV's because of image retention and motion looked "off" to them.

Remember no technology is perfect, always trade offs.
Does your monitor's pixel response on all transitions keep up with that 165Hz?

Yes, there are trade-offs. Like I said, lack of VFR on current 4K TVs stinks.

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post #20 of 38 Old 06-12-2017, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
Yes, it can hardly compare to IPS PC monitors, with their glowing gray blacks and flashlighting/terrible black uniformity

I should qualify my original statement by saying "for content consumption".



Does your monitor's pixel response on all transitions keep up with that 165Hz?

Yes, there are trade-offs. Like I said, lack of VFR on current 4K TVs stinks.
Not sure what you mean with that question, but the variable refresh range is 30-165hz for gsync. Its a blissful gaming experience (for most titles, old games is hit/miss). Black levels and light bleed dont concern me near as much on a PC monitor like they do on a TV. Then again i dont watch movies on my PC, so there is that.
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post #21 of 38 Old 06-12-2017, 01:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for all the information and opinions.
My favorite at the moment is the Samsung UE43KU6072 (KU6300 in the US).
Some time ago I've tried a 50" and a 42" plasmas as a (secondary) display, but they were obviously too big for (only) Full HD resolution.
The picture was very nice but I was afraid of image retention.

I've tried 5 simultaneous SD videos, the FAN (graphics card) was running on 18%.

Last edited by HWTest; 06-12-2017 at 01:32 AM.
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post #22 of 38 Old 06-12-2017, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
Not sure what you mean with that question, but the variable refresh range is 30-165hz for gsync. Its a blissful gaming experience (for most titles, old games is hit/miss). Black levels and light bleed dont concern me near as much on a PC monitor like they do on a TV. Then again i dont watch movies on my PC, so there is that.
What I mean is that, @165Hz, is your LCD handling all pixel transitions at 6ms or less, without overshoot? If not, then you aren't getting the most out of high refresh rate. A lot of IPS and VA monitors that support 144Hz+ have trailing.

And for me, I'm tired of suffering gray blacks and backlight bleeding on PC monitors. The VA-based ones are definitely getting better in this area but there's still plenty of progress to be made.

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post #23 of 38 Old 06-12-2017, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
What I mean is that, @165Hz, is your LCD handling all pixel transitions at 6ms or less, without overshoot? If not, then you aren't getting the most out of high refresh rate. A lot of IPS and VA monitors that support 144Hz+ have trailing.

And for me, I'm tired of suffering gray blacks and backlight bleeding on PC monitors. The VA-based ones are definitely getting better in this area but there's still plenty of progress to be made.
No trailing/ghosting/overshoot here, TN panel FTW:

http://www.dell.com/ed/business/p/de...7dg-monitor/pd

IPS and VA make crap PC monitors, well at least for gaming.

Contrast ratio on this monitor isnt good at all, but you forget about that very quickly lol.
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post #24 of 38 Old 06-12-2017, 08:22 AM
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Just get an oled tv or a samsung ks8000 seriers or above, also the newly released vizio p series will have great specs as well. Pc monitors are garbage for the most part, only good ones are the few va panel ones like the hp omen.

You don't even need it to be 4:4:4 because 4k 4:2:2 is the equivalent of 2x 1080p at 4:4:4. Enabling it or disabling it doesn't make a visual difference like it does in lower resolutions.
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post #25 of 38 Old 06-12-2017, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
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Just get an oled tv or a samsung ks8000 seriers or above, also the newly released vizio p series will have great specs as well. Pc monitors are garbage for the most part, only good ones are the few va panel ones like the hp omen.

You don't even need it to be 4:4:4 because 4k 4:2:2 is the equivalent of 2x 1080p at 4:4:4. Enabling it or disabling it doesn't make a visual difference like it does in lower resolutions.
I disagree strongly 444 is critical to properly render text at UHD resolutions. The KS8000 does it properly.
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post #26 of 38 Old 06-13-2017, 02:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't think I need a gaming monitor as I'm not a gamer.
I actually have a 24" iiyama ProLite E2473HDS and its OK, but I want a bigger one ...
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post #27 of 38 Old 06-13-2017, 06:35 PM
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The main advantage a PC monitor is power management.
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post #28 of 38 Old 06-14-2017, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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You're right but that's acceptable.
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post #29 of 38 Old 06-14-2017, 10:33 AM
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I disagree strongly 444 is critical to properly render text at UHD resolutions. The KS8000 does it properly.
In 1080p it is but in 4k I don't see anywhere near a significant difference and neither does a few friends I have asked and some expert reviewers in this forum. Again I believe this is because the chroma at 4:4:2 UHD is actually twice as better than in 1080P. I tested this in both my KS8500 and C6 Oled which I use for pretty much everything, gaming, movies and typing up stuff(which is where the chroma advantages are more noticeable)

Diminishing returns.
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post #30 of 38 Old 06-14-2017, 12:43 PM
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The main advantage a PC monitor is power management.
Yeah, it's messed up that PC graphics cards (Intel, AMD, Nvidia) still don't support CEC.
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