*Official* 2017 TCL P-Series (55P607) Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Viper32 View Post
That looks just about exactly like mine.

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So what is your thought? Am not that videophile snob, but at the same
time don't want to own a defective set. I'm coming from Hisense H7
though as of now also have 'S' series TCL. I definitely see some improvements
in this 'P' series in the pic quality with my eyes. I don't game much.
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post #302 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 07:13 PM
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backlight bleed

So, after looking at all these pics on the blacklight bleed test I went ahead and darkened the room (we never watch tv in the dark) and performed the you tube test. I was one of the self-proclaimed lucky ones with no defects! Well, with the fald off I definitely see the same clouding as others..turn the fald on low..it disappears. I read somewhere that there is a difference between light bleed and clouding..clouding being more common/acceptable to LED TV's. I'll have to research again or maybe someone else has some expertise on the subject

This prompted me to test our 1 year old LG 65UH8500 which is our main living room tv that we absolutely love! guess what?! same results, clouding with local ddimming off (FALD)..turn on local dimming..disappears. The LG is an IPS panel and only has 11 vertical dimming zones..but works fine. I guess ignorance is bliss, LOL. My point is that I think it may be the nature of the beast and since it has never effected normal viewing (same with the tcl) I'm okay with it. great blacks, sharp pic..enjoying my new man-cave tv!
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Last edited by tedrik; 06-15-2017 at 07:24 PM. Reason: spell
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post #303 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedrik View Post
So, after looking at all these pics on the blacklight bleed test I went ahead and darkened the room (we never watch tv in the dark) and performed the you tube test. I was one of the self-proclaimed lucky ones with no defects! Well, with the fald off I definitely see the same clouding as others..turn the fald on low..it disappears.

This prompted me to test our 1 year old LG 65UH8500 which is our main living room tv that we absolutely love! guess what?! same results, clouding with local diiming off (FALD)..turn on local dimming..disappears. The LG is an IPS panel and only has 11 vertical dimming zones..but works fine. I guess ignorance is bliss, LOL. My point is that I think it may be the nature of the beast and since it has never effected normal viewing (same with the tcl) I'm okay with it. great blacks, sharp pic..enjoying my new man-cave tv!
8500 has very good viewing angles but blacks are hopeless.
As said earlier I had Hisense for a long time,but now have
gone thorugh 55UH8500, LeEco X4 55, TCL S series and now P.
As you say ignorance is bliss ;-). Unfortunately my techie side
says NO to ignorance. Thanks for all forums guys who helped to
learn something .
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post #304 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 07:21 PM
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Well, the cat thinks it looks real. LOL! Sorry for the bad phone pic, but she's never paid attention to the tv before.

We've watched a bunch more today and would still say we got a good set. A tiny bit of light in the corners on some menus, but it"s looked great watching content. I'm going to contact TCL about the remote not working for voice search but otherwise super happy.

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post #305 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedrik View Post
So, after looking at all these pics on the blacklight bleed test I went ahead and darkened the room (we never watch tv in the dark) and performed the you tube test. I was one of the self-proclaimed lucky ones with no defects! Well, with the fald off I definitely see the same clouding as others..turn the fald on low..it disappears. I read somewhere that there is a difference between light bleed and clouding..clouding being more common/acceptable to LED TV's. I'll have to research again or maybe someone else has some expertise on the subject

This prompted me to test our 1 year old LG 65UH8500 which is our main living room tv that we absolutely love! guess what?! same results, clouding with local diiming off (FALD)..turn on local dimming..disappears. The LG is an IPS panel and only has 11 vertical dimming zones..but works fine. I guess ignorance is bliss, LOL. My point is that I think it may be the nature of the beast and since it has never effected normal viewing (same with the tcl) I'm okay with it. great blacks, sharp pic..enjoying my new man-cave tv!
I think this is what you have to do at some point, turn off the internet and enjoy your product. Reading too many user reviews is often dangerous! And you will end up worrying about issues you never knew existed. Of course I support due diligence (that's why I'm here before buying!).

For example I have a Vizio 55" 1080P (e550i-b2 I think), of course I'm not a videophile (but I do want to know I'm buying a quality set, hence why I'm here) and to me, it looks fantastic! Yet I bet compared to any set here or to the users here, it's complete trash with huge flaws...sometimes ignorance is bliss.
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post #306 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by didadi View Post
8500 has very good viewing angles but blacks are hopeless.
As said earlier I had Hisense for a long time,but now have
gone thorugh 55UH8500, LeEco X4 55, TCL S series and now P.
As you say ignorance is bliss ;-). Unfortunately my techie side
says NO to ignorance. Thanks for all forums guys who helped to
learn something .
Blacks are fine on the LG as long as you watch with some lights on...correct as far as watching in the dark..poor blacks.
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post #307 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Seanzy.Bear View Post
So I have tested backlight bleed with FALD/Local Contrast off and notice a fair amount of bleed from the bottom two corners and a little bleed on the top ones. Attached is an example, the room I will be watching doesn't get terribly dark (apartment looks out to street lamps) and the picture exaggerates what I actually see.

I know it looks bad but with FALD on looks just fine, in game mode I'm not terribly concerned, put in destiny and barely noticed it. Idk, trying to debate if it is worth going through the hassle of returning or refunding.

Thoughts?

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This is an example of how exposure times don't always give a good representation of what it actually looks like...
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post #308 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 07:53 PM
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Mine came from Georgia and FedEx. The factory seal tape on top is completely ripped open and the straps are very loose (stretched out). It appears that someone opened the top of the box, removed the straps, removed the TV, re-installed the TV, and put the straps back on. I immediately contacted Amazon rep thru Chat. She said to go ahead and open it and inspect it for damage, and offered a refund/exchange if necessary.

So I'm about to unbox and connect it now. Fingers crossed.
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post #309 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 08:03 PM
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So - I may be another fortunate one here. Mine shipped from GA. Box arrived in near perfect condition. FedEx left at my front door. FedEx guy/gal was super thoughtful (it's been raining quite a bit) and it looks like he tried to wrap a garbage bag around the end that was closest to the elements. I unpacked the TV and mounted it today. No ripples. I performed the backlight bleed test with local contrast off and there were two (very minimal) bleed sections on the bottom.

Whoever the folks were that recommended watching "Iceland in 4k Ultra HD" and The HDR Channel on YouTube are awesome. I'm not a video snob - I upgraded from a cheap 1080p LG TV, however, these videos are awesome looking. Even my wife was impressed and it takes a lot for her to notice/give a crap.
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post #310 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 08:06 PM
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This video looks amazing on this TV:
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post #311 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didadi View Post
Ok,thank you.
First pic is FALD set to low, and 2nd one is FALD = OFF.
Both backlight = 25, brightness=50, contrast=100.
Backlight bleed is definitely there with FALD off,but wonder
if it's the right test even. I may have gotten one of the better
units? What you guys think? No ripples, no over bleeding
whatsoever. 4K is simply amazing in this,specially with FALD
set to even Low (Med,High as well). Feeling like this can be a
firmware fix?
You have some bleed, but I think all of us have some bleed. Too much? It depends what you find acceptable. In consideration of the reasoning given why someone would ever want to turn FALD off (and yes, I've read all the insightful comments), I can see why for some people this would matter. I've spend hours with this set watching as much 1080p, 4k HDR and non-HDR content I can find to try and push it to it's limits. I've been pausing and playing with Local Contrast/FALD. I continue to not be able to find a scenario I would every turn it off.

As has been pointed out, there were two specific FALD concerns given in the reviewed.com pro review for this set. The reviewer commented on colors over saturating with FLAD turned On while watching "Moving Art" on Netflix. The other series commented on was Marco Polo on Netflix. For this they had to turn FALD back to High to fix color problems... I can tell you with absolute certainty that I am NOT seeing these issues on my set when toggling between Local Contrast On/Off. No difference in color on Moving Art or Marco Pollo regardless of Local Contrast setting, only a slight change in brightness and black levels a expected. So perhaps that was a defect in the reviewers set or perhaps this is something TCL has corrected in the patch that downloaded when I first connected the set.

I've spent a lot of time watching today in a fairly bright room and this evening watching spent a few hours with just a few low-watt bulb floor lamps on specifically trying to find fault with the images so I can report this back, there is just nothing I'm finding. The motion could be smoother (as I think all pro reviews noted), but it still looks very, very good.

You have some individuals with a lot of experience with displays that cost several thousand dollars who seem to really struggle with the give and takes one would expect on a $600 dollar set vs a $3000 display. I think most have articulated that but in the subtext of their comments there seems to be a Videophile lovers disappointment (or perhaps outright disgust or bitterness, I'm not sure which it is). You may want to take some specific cirques with grain of salt. I would argue most people who care enough passionately about something (guns, cars, AV equipment, whatever) and spend time on the high-end are going to probably have a difficult time judging budget and mid-range products for what they are. It's very difficult to be objective coming from point and to not express your frustration. This is what separates the pro reviewer from the average videophile. The pro reviewer's income depends on their ability to be objective across the board.

This is AVSForum and those of us who are not videophiles are really just guest here. With that in mind and with all due respect, the nit-picking I'm sure is of great value to other videophiles but for most consumers just looking to focus on "great" and not "perfect" a lot of it it should probably be filtered out. I think in some of the cases with bleed this is nit-picking. Just an opinion.
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post #312 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 08:22 PM
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Has anyone seen "Meridian" in Dolby Vision on Netflix? Absolutely astounding. Check it out around the 7:00 mark when he goes into the cave. I can't post pics yet because I just joined but it's pretty darn amazing.
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post #313 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 08:23 PM
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I read somewhere that there is a difference between light bleed and clouding..clouding being more common/acceptable to LED TV's. I'll have to research again or maybe someone else has some expertise on the subject
What you guys are seeing is "flashlighting", aptly named and different than regular light bleed typically seen in edge lit displays.
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post #314 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 08:38 PM
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What you guys are seeing is "flashlighting", aptly named and different than regular light bleed typically seen in edge lit displays.
I have a buddy who has a $1300 55" Sony X900 (last years model I think). I was telling him about this problem so many were having with this set and he ran this backlight bleed test in a dark room and his set looks a lot worse than mine and about the same as some of those posted here.... That has me wondering how common is this problem that's got everyone up in tizzy?

Related link of possible interest
http://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/pictu...-flashlighting

Note from article linked:
Update 21/04/2017: Renamed 'Black Uniformity' to 'Native black Uniformity'. Also added a 'Black Uniformity with Local Dimming' test to demonstrate the black uniformity performance when the local dimming feature is turned on. We plan to start scoring this at the next scoring update. The analysis of the test picture is the same as the 'Native Black Uniformity'.

Comments have been made that running "backlight bleed test with FALD turned On is pointless" but for Flashlighting (which is what this appears to be) rrtings.com took the time to add a score (test result) for how sets perform on Flashlighting test with FALD on. Assuming they are competent, there must be some value to testing for Flashlighting with FLAD On. Can someone explain the differences in Flashlighting and Backlight Bleed and why a FLAD On test would be valid for Flashlighting and not for Backlight bleed. It appears I'm not the only one here that needs to be educated on this and some people may be boxing up their sets now when they should be much less concerned.

Curious how they will score the 55P607

Starting to think more and more that this is videophile nit-pick.

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post #315 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 08:47 PM
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Check the KS9800 topic and you won't feel so bad..
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post #316 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 08:52 PM
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Rtings also mentioned some possible fix worth mentioning on the link.

"How to get the best results:
Flashlighting can sometimes be fixed on some televisions. If your flashlighting issue is caused by an issue with the frame’s pressure, you can adjust it by slightly loosening or tightening the screws behind the edge of the screen. Some televisions do not expose the screws, however, so you won’t have that option with those. You should also keep in mind that a small change in the tightness of a screw can have a big impact on the uniformity of the screen, so be careful if ever you do try this step.

For clouding, there's a pretty simple fix that - while not guaranteed - can have good results. Power on the TV and display a black image. This will allow you to see the lighter spots on the screen. Next, take a soft cloth and massage those brighter spots to improve the uniformity. You should only apply very gentle pressure, just barely touching the screen. You can also try a few different stroking patterns. If you are patient enough, this works surprisingly often, especially on edge-lit TVs.

Alternatively, you might consider returning or exchanging your television. Some models are more prone than others to having issues. Even within the same model, some units can have more of this issue, because of a slight variance in the manufacturing or the shipping process. It can be worth trying to exchange it for the same model before going with an entirely different one. Extreme cases of clouding are also covered under a TV's warranty."
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post #317 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuB01 View Post
Rtings also mentioned some possible fix worth mentioning on the link.

"How to get the best results:
Flashlighting can sometimes be fixed on some televisions. If your flashlighting issue is caused by an issue with the frame’s pressure, you can adjust it by slightly loosening or tightening the screws behind the edge of the screen. Some televisions do not expose the screws, however, so you won’t have that option with those. You should also keep in mind that a small change in the tightness of a screw can have a big impact on the uniformity of the screen, so be careful if ever you do try this step.

For clouding, there's a pretty simple fix that - while not guaranteed - can have good results. Power on the TV and display a black image. This will allow you to see the lighter spots on the screen. Next, take a soft cloth and massage those brighter spots to improve the uniformity. You should only apply very gentle pressure, just barely touching the screen. You can also try a few different stroking patterns. If you are patient enough, this works surprisingly often, especially on edge-lit TVs.

Alternatively, you might consider returning or exchanging your television. Some models are more prone than others to having issues. Even within the same model, some units can have more of this issue, because of a slight variance in the manufacturing or the shipping process. It can be worth trying to exchange it for the same model before going with an entirely different one. Extreme cases of clouding are also covered under a TV's warranty."
Hadn't heard of that solution before. Definitely gonna try that before giving in and returning the TV.

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post #318 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 08:59 PM
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Hadn't heard of that solution before. Definitely gonna try that before giving in and returning the TV.

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let us know the result!
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post #319 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by rmz76 View Post
You have some individuals with a lot of experience with displays that cost several thousand dollars who seem to really struggle with the give and takes one would expect on a $600 dollar set vs a $3000 display. I think most have articulated that but in the subtext of their comments there seems to be a Videophile lovers disappointment (or perhaps outright disgust or bitterness, I'm not sure which it is). You may want to take some specific cirques with grain of salt. I would argue most people who care enough passionately about something (guns, cars, AV equipment, whatever) and spend time on the high-end are going to probably have a difficult time judging budget and mid-range products for what they are. It's very difficult to be objective coming from point and to not express your frustration. This is what separates the pro reviewer from the average videophile. The pro reviewer's income depends on their ability to be objective across the board.

This is AVSForum and those of us who are not videophiles are really just guest here. With that in mind and with all due respect, the nit-picking I'm sure is of great value to other videophiles but for most consumers just looking to focus on "great" and not "perfect" a lot of it it should probably be filtered out. I think in some of the cases with bleed this is nit-picking. Just an opinion.
I'm not sure if this applies to the reviewers on this forum or even in the lcd world, but the ones from the plasma forum and world had not problems looking at a set for all that it is to any buyer and addressing their concerns and questions in the review. Most reviews are written about mid to high end, not budget though. This tv is in the same price range at the Vizio M which has made a big splash these past few years. IMO, budget tvs are the Vizio D series and even the E- this tv is not in the range in price nor quality. Most of the reviews I read pointed out few flaws, while also pointing out whether is was a flaw in the tech or so minimal as to not be a real concern. They had to dig for what they did find. What stuck out to me is that one or two reviewers also said that it performed better than an OLED in a certain area.

So, I don't agree with your view, and hope your view isn't true of this forum either. Just sayin'.

btw, I acknowledge that there are trolls, and fanboys everywhere, but that doesn't have to define the rest.

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post #320 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post
I'm not sure if this applies to the reviewers on this forum or even in the lcd world, but the ones from the plasma forum and world had not problems looking at a set for all that it is to any buyer and addressing their concerns and questions in the review. Most reviews are written about mid to high end, not budget though. This tv is in the same price range at the Vizio M which has made a big splash these past few years. IMO, budget tvs are the Vizio D series and even the E- this tv is not in the range in price nor quality. Most of the reviews I read pointed out few flaws, while also pointing out whether is was a flaw in the tech or so minimal as to not be a real concern. They had to dig for what they did find. What stuck out to me is that one or two reviewers also said that it performed better than an OLED in a certain area.

So, I don't agree with your view, and hope your view isn't true of this forum either. Just sayin'.

btw, I acknowledge that there are trolls, and fanboys everywhere, but that doesn't have to define the rest.
Thanks for the counter perspective and Fair enough. I grew up in a time where people could agree to disagree and walk away with mutual respect... It seems whatever the subject these days people end up at each others throats and walk away with a lot of bitterness. Seems a lack of maturity in society in general and it's refreshing to see several here open to others view points without attacking.
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post #321 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 09:05 PM
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Has anyone hooked up the TCL to a computer and seen how well it renders the desktop? Maybe a Chrome or IE browser as well?

The last TCL I had showed alot of 'noise' and lines on the display when it was hooked up as a monitor.

Here is a link to a 4:4:4 test image. http://madshi.net/madVR/ChromaRes.png

Thanks!

Main: Sony 75XBR900F
Bedroom: Sony 65XBR900E
Desktop: Sony 49XBR900E

Retired Units: Vizio P65-F, Vizio M653DSV, Samsung UN40KU6290

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post #322 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bigtexan999 View Post
Has anyone hooked up the TCL to a computer and seen how well it renders the desktop? Maybe a Chrome or IE browser as well?

The last TCL I had showed alot of 'noise' and lines on the display when it was hooked up as a monitor.

Thanks!
I might hook up my PC tonight for some first-ever 4k gaming, if I do I'll be sure to check how text reads on it

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post #323 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post
I'm not sure if this applies to the reviewers on this forum or even in the lcd world, but the ones from the plasma forum and world had not problems looking at a set for all that it is to any buyer and addressing their concerns and questions in the review. Most reviews are written about mid to high end, not budget though. This tv is in the same price range at the Vizio M which has made a big splash these past few years. IMO, budget tvs are the Vizio D series and even the E- this tv is not in the range in price nor quality. Most of the reviews I read pointed out few flaws, while also pointing out whether is was a flaw in the tech or so minimal as to not be a real concern. They had to dig for what they did find. What stuck out to me is that one or two reviewers also said that it performed better than an OLED in a certain area.

So, I don't agree with your view, and hope your view isn't true of this forum either. Just sayin'.

btw, I acknowledge that there are trolls, and fanboys everywhere, but that doesn't have to define the rest.
To try and tactfully call this it.... It took 314 post to this thread over three days before someone informed was kind enough to point out what we're seeing and some are panicking about is not Backlight bleed but "Fashlighting", the thread originator (who has admitted to owning several nice displays) pushed the panic button on this issue and erroneously identified it as Backlight bleed.

Although I did get a few good responses on why testing for Backlight bleed with FALD on is "pointless" no one has commented on if testing for Flashlighting with FALD On is also pointless. Thankfully rtings.com answered that for us as they are providing black uniformity test for Flashlighting with FALD On and Off. They would not provide this score if there wasn't value to this test. If there's value to it then it's distinct from Backlight Bleed and it's association to FALD On. Logic is your friend. They also note all sets have some degree of this and we're seeing reports of LG, Sony and other higher end panels with similar "problems" people seem to just now be discovering... This has me wondering how much of this was stirred up out of spite for what the pro reviewers identified as such a great value... Let's face it some people are just like that.

Seems there is a lot of blind leading the blind here. Our rescue? Turning back to the pro reviews and giving this thread a few more days for information to come in. Maybe the best thing for people to do is just chill out a bit and see what all bubbles up.
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Last edited by rmz76; 06-15-2017 at 09:39 PM.
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post #324 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rmz76 View Post
To try and tactfully call this it.... It took 314 post to this thread over three days before someone informed was kind enough to point out what we're seeing and some are panicking about is not Backlight bleed but "Fashlighting", the thread originator (who has admitted to owning several nice displays) pushed the panic button on this issue and erroneously identified it as Backlight bleed.

Although I did get a few good responses on why testing for Backlight bleed with FALD on is "pointless" no one has commented on if testing for Flashlighting with FALD On is also pointless. Thankfully rtings.com answered that for us as they are providing black uniformity test for Flashlighting with FALD On and Off. They would not provide this score if there wasn't value to this test. If there's value to it then it's distinct from Backlight Bleed and it's association to FALD On. Logic is your friend. They also note all sets have some degree of this and we're seeing reports of LG, Sony and other higher end panels with similar "problems" people seem to just now be discovering... This has me wondering how much of this was stirred up out of spite for what the pro reviewers identified as such a great value... Let's face it some people are just like that.

Seems there is a lot of blind leading the blind here. Our rescue? Turning back to the pro reviews and giving this thread a few more days for information to come in. Maybe the best thing for people to do is just chill out a bit and see what all bubbles up.
While flashlighting, backlight bleed, and clouding are indeed all different things, they are different more in the reasons why they happen, rather than what they look like. All of them look very similar, but are caused by different things. Rtings explains this as well. Backlight bleed is when you can see extra light coming from the edges or corners of a display, and is caused by the edges not being glued or constructed properly, so there's a gap that lets more light out than it should. Flashlighting is what happens when edge lit displays like the KS8000 throw extra light across parts of the screen that don't need it, especially when using local dimming. Clouding is what I think most of us are seeing on these sets, and it happens when sections (not necessarily the edges) of the screen are brighter than others on a full black scene.

This is just my understanding of these terminologies, so I might be slightly off, but I feel like I have a decent grasp of the meanings.

For the record, I'm not basing my expectations off of what I think a more expensive or perfect set would be able to do; I'm basing my expectations off of plenty of pictures I've seen of extremely good looking black uniformity even on budget and cheap displays, including imagic's own picture of his P607's full black uniformity. And, just because black uniformity issues are widespread across many brands and models, even expensive ones, that doesn't mean we should just be complacent about it. Ideally, all the brands should be improving their quality control. I know that's not realistic, but still.

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post #325 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 10:13 PM
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Are there any decent third party Roku remotes?

They used to be so simple! Now they've got a bunch of extraneous single purpose buttons and the OK button is squeezed into the dpad for some reason.

I really am trying to nitpick here for some reason. I just watched a movie on this set and I am very pleased with it - the clarity, colors, and brightness are amazing.
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post #326 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rmz76 View Post
To try and tactfully call this it.... It took 314 post to this thread over three days before someone informed was kind enough to point out what we're seeing and some are panicking about is not Backlight bleed but "Fashlighting", the thread originator (who has admitted to owning several nice displays) pushed the panic button on this issue and erroneously identified it as Backlight bleed.

Although I did get a few good responses on why testing for Backlight bleed with FALD on is "pointless" no one has commented on if testing for Flashlighting with FALD On is also pointless. Thankfully rtings.com answered that for us as they are providing black uniformity test for Flashlighting with FALD On and Off. They would not provide this score if there wasn't value to this test. If there's value to it then it's distinct from Backlight Bleed and it's association to FALD On. Logic is your friend. They also note all sets have some degree of this and we're seeing reports of LG, Sony and other higher end panels with similar "problems" people seem to just now be discovering... This has me wondering how much of this was stirred up out of spite for what the pro reviewers identified as such a great value... Let's face it some people are just like that.

Seems there is a lot of blind leading the blind here. Our rescue? Turning back to the pro reviews and giving this thread a few more days for information to come in. Maybe the best thing for people to do is just chill out a bit and see what all bubbles up.
IMO.....and maybe you as well,there was a lot of over the top angst focused on a budget set, I hope and think that things will calm down soon. ....
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post #327 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 10:17 PM
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So this is my panel with FALD turned off. To do this go to a YouTube a backlight test. While it's running push the start button. Go to advanced picture settings and turn local dimming off. With local dimming on it appears completely black as if the TV is turned off.
My experience is exactly the same: some corner bleeding with local dimming turned off; totally black with any FALD setting activated. Since I intend to watch only with local dimming on, I can't see any reason to return the unit. Gorgeous picture quality, particularly the contrast. Have watched for only a few hours so far, but for $599, so far I'm pretty satisfied.

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post #328 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 10:35 PM
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While flashlighting, backlight bleed, and clouding are indeed all different things, they are different more in the reasons why they happen, rather than what they look like. All of them look very similar, but are caused by different things. Rtings explains this as well. Backlight bleed is when you can see extra light coming from the edges or corners of a display, and is caused by the edges not being glued or constructed properly, so there's a gap that lets more light out than it should. Flashlighting is what happens when edge lit displays like the KS8000 throw extra light across parts of the screen that don't need it, especially when using local dimming. Clouding is what I think most of us are seeing on these sets, and it happens when sections (not necessarily the edges) of the screen are brighter than others on a full black scene.

This is just my understanding of these terminologies, so I might be slightly off, but I feel like I have a decent grasp of the meanings.

For the record, I'm not basing my expectations off of what I think a more expensive or perfect set would be able to do; I'm basing my expectations off of plenty of pictures I've seen of extremely good looking black uniformity even on budget and cheap displays, including imagic's own picture of his P607's full black uniformity. And, just because black uniformity issues are widespread across many brands and models, even expensive ones, that doesn't mean we should just be complacent about it. Ideally, all the brands should be improving their quality control. I know that's not realistic, but still.

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Since we've now identified this as Flashlighting and not Backlight Bleed then then how does turning FALD Off/On impact. Since it's clear there is bad information int his thread with the good, I'm going to trust rtings that there is value in testing for Flashlighitng with FALD On... Now that this has been correctly identified and we see it a very common issue with non OLED TVs, I've come to the conclusion this is nit-picking to try and find something wrong.... There is no reason to turn FALD off. Perhaps there was at the time of review or one of the reviewers got a defective set, but it looks great and does exactly what it's suppose to on a "good" 55P607.

As helpful and enjoyable as the First Look thread was on this set and how it reminded me of how I became addicted to AVSForum years ago, this thread has reminded me of why I left AVS Forums in the first place. Mixed with the very helpful, good people are a quite a few very unhelpfuls with large egos who provide bad information sending people down rabbit holes. You have people parroting things they truly don't understand but just trust because "it's the way it's done". In a technical forum I find these things detestable and unforgivable sins. Chill out, harsh words but it's just an opinion. The forums continue to have excellent moderators it seems (thankfully deleting more than one of mine that went off topic) but I believe there may be some hidden agendas at play here and I really don't care for dealing with that.

I have no regrets about the energy I've put into this thread as I got so much useful info out of the First Look thread Mark created and I feel being one of the ones who "won the panel lottery" I might could provide some helpful insight, but since work schedule is changing tomorrow I doubt I'll post much more as I'm reminded of how bad information by one person who thinks themselves an expert at identifying problems can end up costing a lot of people time and money (hardship) this is the sort of thing that makes me start to hate humanity, I start to direct some very negative energy at people I don't even know personally and it's just a horrible thing all around so it's time for me to check out.

My last bit of advice for those still waiting for their set:

This is an amazing TV.... It is what the early reviews pointed out good and bad (minus the FALD flaw with Netflix content I could not reproduce). Among the few valid concerns (FALD toggle on game mode as you pointed out, probably fixable by firmware update), there appears to be the most weight given to this "Bleed" problem that has been misdiagnosed from the start.

Don't let the videophiles nit-pick the flaws and make you hate it.... If it's weak points get under your skin then you have two options: 1. Return it and buy the right set for you (e.g. pay several hundred more and sacrifice the 55P607 color accuracy and exceptional contrast to gain better performance for gaming) or 2. Go spend a mint on a high-end OLED set. It's that simple.

Good luck to everyone still waiting on your sets.
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post #329 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 11:05 PM
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I am one of the people who ordered one after they sold out (shipping late august / early sept). I ordered mine for Gaming above everything else (Xbox One X) so I am a little concerned that FALD is disabled with Gaming. Since FALD seems to keep the flashlighting in check, I wonder how that will appear in dark game scenes.

Hopefully TCL addresses this sooner than later .

Thank you all for your personal reviews/feelings/opinions/input on the set and technology. As someone who ordered late and is sitting around waiting this thread has not scared me off . It is still worth waiting in hopes for a good set IMO.
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post #330 of 6326 Old 06-15-2017, 11:11 PM
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Just asking again by itself...you guys think there's a good chance the alleged no FALD in game mode could be "fixed" via a firmware update?

Again I mostly only game (Destiny addiction, 1900+ hours at minimum, although I do watch NFL and the occasional streamed movie), so this set without FALD during gaming would seem pointless for me as that would destroy the great PQ.
Not sure if fald is off in game mode in other tv's but I would assume so since the tv would need extra processing time to know which leds to turn off for each frame.

The input lag on this set is amazing but if you really want fald then activate it. The reviewers put input lag outside of game mode at 35ms which is still considered good and a number that is seen on most tvs. Without fald your pq will only decrease a little on really dark scenes when your room is dark, otherwise it's the same.
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