*Official* 2017 TCL P-Series (55P607) Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 150 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4471 of 6354 Old 12-08-2017, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Coxner View Post
TCL 49s405. I know it's not a p607 but the price was right at one hundred and seventy five new in the box.

When I view HDR demo videos on YouTube the 4k is perfect and the HDR colors are gorgeous and bright. I've viewed 15 or 20 videos and all are excellent. I also have an Xbox One S. When I play the Planet Earth II dvd (4k/HDR) again the colors and resolution are fantastic.

When I view HDR content on Amazon and Netflix the colors are almost totally washed out and the resolution doesn't even look like 4k to me. The screen is also much darker than with YouTube/Blu Ray. I do get the HDR popup logo, so have to assume I am getting an HDR feed. I paid the extra charge on Netflix for 4k/HDR.

I've left the default settings except for experimenting with Dark/Normal/Bright HDR. Default is Gamma 2.2, Noise Reduction Off and Normal color temp. I played around with changes to the white balance and color space (using Rtings suggestions) but those didn't seem to make any difference with Amazon/Netflix. Lowering the gamma to 1.8 brightened the screen a bit but colors were still washed out.

What baffles me is how fantastic the colors/brightness look on 4k/HDR videos on YouTube and Blu Ray dvds and how bad the content looks on Amazon/Netflix. I've tried both wireless and wired feeds to the tv but there's no difference in quality. I've watched the Roku apps for Amazon/Netflix on the tv and the apps on my Xbox One S. No difference.

What am I missing here where YouTube is so great and all else is crap? Is anyone experiencing the same with p607? FWIW the upscaling is fine on SDR and looks really good.
I don't think the "S" model TCL's have HDR capability, only the 55" P series. 4K panel YES, Wide Color and HDR, NO.
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post #4472 of 6354 Old 12-08-2017, 10:00 PM
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Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio are the most used digital audio formats for Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray discs. They are bit-for-bit packed lossless codecs (for space saving - like Zip files for a computer) that deliver master grade PCM audio when decoded.

Just recently, the Sony core bookshelf speakers were going for $74 a pair. I'm sure that price drop will happen again. Add a stereo receiver on sale that can decode the above audio formats, let alone one that can do at least 5.1 surround, and you should have it covered... or at least you would be on the right path.

This would be a LEAP forward compared to the cruddy speakers built-in to most TV's.
Okay. If they are on sale under 100 I probably will get those. How much would a stereo receiver be how much of a jump are we talking if I add that as opposed to just the speakers?
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post #4473 of 6354 Old 12-08-2017, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio are the most used digital audio formats for Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray discs. They are bit-for-bit packed lossless codecs (for space saving - like Zip files for a computer) that deliver master grade PCM audio when decoded.

Just recently, the Sony core bookshelf speakers were going for $74 a pair. I'm sure that price drop will happen again. Add a stereo receiver on sale that can decode the above audio formats, let alone one that can do at least 5.1 surround, and you should have it covered... or at least you would be on the right path.

This would be a LEAP forward compared to the cruddy speakers built-in to most TV's.
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I don't think the "S" model TCL's have HDR capability, only the 55" P series. 4K panel YES, Wide Color and HDR, NO.
It does actually. Just HDR 10 though. The P series just adds Dolby vision and it's all around better HDR.
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post #4474 of 6354 Old 12-08-2017, 10:47 PM
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Okay. If they are on sale under 100 I probably will get those. How much would a stereo receiver be how much of a jump are we talking if I add that as opposed to just the speakers?
There's a Sony stereo receiver for $99 on sale right now. There is a basic 5.1 surround Denon factory refurbed receiver at Accessories4less that's just slightly more that has DTS and Dolby lossless decoding. For convenience sake and for 4k HDMI switching, I would go with the latter and not the former receiver... you can always add a little at a time and get into at least the fundamentals of surround as the budget permits. You would not regret it.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...eceiver/1.html

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post #4475 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
There's a Sony stereo receiver for $99 on sale right now. There is a basic 5.1 surround Denon factory refurbed receiver at Accessories4less that's just slightly more that has DTS and Dolby lossless decoding. For convenience sake and for 4k HDMI switching, I would go with the latter and not the former receiver... you can always add a little at a time and get into at least the fundamentals of surround as the budget permits. You would not regret it.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...eceiver/1.html
Yeah, that's the key word. Budget lol
I have a rough idea of how much I'll have available so right now I don't think adding another 100 would work but who knows. Maybe I'll get surprised.
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post #4476 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 12:34 AM
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Yeah, that's the key word. Budget lol
I have a rough idea of how much I'll have available so right now I don't think adding another 100 would work but who knows. Maybe I'll get surprised.
You could always put the refund into a rainy day jar and not spend it right away. Have it grow a little before making a purchase.

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post #4477 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by VinCap View Post
I don't think the "S" model TCL's have HDR capability, only the 55" P series. 4K panel YES, Wide Color and HDR, NO.
The TCL S series definitely has HDR. My Xbox One S confirms that it has HDR and I get HDR logo popups on Amazon and Netflix. I do agree no WCG and no FALD.

https://www.tclusa.com/products/home...mart-tv-49s405

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Rtings also agrees:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/tc...s-4k-2017-s405

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post #4478 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 10:28 AM
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Yeah, that's the key word. Budget lol
I have a rough idea of how much I'll have available so right now I don't think adding another 100 would work but who knows. Maybe I'll get surprised.
Chess, don’t overthink it. If you just want better sound than the speakers in the tv, the Vizio will be fine. Going down the road of “well if I just spend a few more $$ I can get something better” gets to be a slippery and never ending slope.

Some advice though, I’m not aware of 39” sound bar from Vizio. Did you mean the 38? I used to have one. 2 things:

1) You’re going to be turning it on and off and adjusting the volume on it independently (via the Vizio remote). If you want a more seamless experience of having the sound bar turn on and off with the tv as well as adjust the volume with th tv’s remote, look for one that’s got ARC on it. The newer 2017 Vizios have this as do some other sound bar mfg’s.

2) Be aware that 38” is too wide to fit between the stands of 605/607. Max is going to be 36”. Maybe you’re wall mounting, or maybe you simply don’t care if the sound bar sticks out in front of the stands. But just worth mentioning so you’re aware.
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post #4479 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
There's a Sony stereo receiver for $99 on sale right now. There is a basic 5.1 surround Denon factory refurbed receiver at Accessories4less that's just slightly more that has DTS and Dolby lossless decoding. For convenience sake and for 4k HDMI switching, I would go with the latter and not the former receiver... you can always add a little at a time and get into at least the fundamentals of surround as the budget permits. You would not regret it.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...eceiver/1.html
Think that is the same Denon I looked at before. Had been thinking of replacing my current Denon which is a few years old. Does 3D but not 4K. I haven't been in too much of a rush because I have been using the optical cable to send audio from the TV to the current AVR.
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post #4480 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
There's a Sony stereo receiver for $99 on sale right now. There is a basic 5.1 surround Denon factory refurbed receiver at Accessories4less that's just slightly more that has DTS and Dolby lossless decoding. For convenience sake and for 4k HDMI switching, I would go with the latter and not the former receiver... you can always add a little at a time and get into at least the fundamentals of surround as the budget permits. You would not regret it.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...eceiver/1.html
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Think that is the same Denon I looked at before. Had been thinking of replacing my current Denon which is a few years old. Does 3D but not 4K. I haven't been in too much of a rush because I have been using the optical cable to send audio from the TV to the current AVR.
The newer model is even cheaper:
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/denavrs530bt/denon-avr-s530bt-5.2-ch-x-70-watts-bluetooth-a/v-receiver/1.html
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post #4481 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 11:31 AM
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Good catch!

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post #4482 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 11:33 AM
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Think that is the same Denon I looked at before. Had been thinking of replacing my current Denon which is a few years old. Does 3D but not 4K. I haven't been in too much of a rush because I have been using the optical cable to send audio from the TV to the current AVR.
Optical only allows for lossy Dolby and DTS and two channel PCM.

FYI

Though, if you can move up to a receiver with Dolby Atmos and DTS: X, that's even better.

Listen up, studios! Dolby Atmos Lite™ print-outs must stop!!
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post #4483 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
There's a Sony stereo receiver for $99 on sale right now. There is a basic 5.1 surround Denon factory refurbed receiver at Accessories4less that's just slightly more that has DTS and Dolby lossless decoding. For convenience sake and for 4k HDMI switching, I would go with the latter and not the former receiver... you can always add a little at a time and get into at least the fundamentals of surround as the budget permits. You would not regret it.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...eceiver/1.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Optical only allows for lossy Dolby and DTS and two channel PCM.

FYI

Though, if you can move up to a receiver with Dolby Atmos and DTS: X, that's even better.
True....I may get serious about an upgrade after the holidays.
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post #4484 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 11:54 AM
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I've had a Panasonic plasma as my main TV for 9 years. I wanted to go the 4k route, so I researched and found that this TV (the Best Buy version) was universally considered the best budget 4k. The reviews for handling of motion seemed positive and a few on here have claimed that they saw no difference between this TV and a plasma, so I gave it a shot.

Folks, I just don't get it. The motion handling gave me a headache and was far too blurry for me. The backlight bleeds through on blank screens. This TV is no where near the quality of a plasma for motion. It's no contest. I unhooked the TCL, boxed it back up and put my plasma back into place. The picture difference is immeasurable. The TCL is headed back to Best Buy tomorrow.

To be fair, perhaps it's just the technology that doesn't stack up. It probably has nothing to do with the brand, but I just don't see how anyone can say that this LED TV competes with a quality plasma. I guess the next thing for me that could compete is an OLED? I've read where motion blur is supposedly virtually non-existent in those.
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post #4485 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 12:18 PM
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So I have mixed feelings about this tv so far. I've tried watching non-4K and SDR content on both CW and Google Play apps, and I'm highly disappointed in the picture quality. I realize this may be an issue with the apps themselves, but then i'm also underwhelmed by the picture of HDR and DV on netflix; the blacks are too crushed for my liking and the shadow detail is still lacking even after numerous attempts at tweaking the settings...and these are all the most common apps i'll use on this TV other than OTA programming. I suppose I should note that this all in comparison to the picture quality of the Vizio M that I have too. So far, the only time i've been blown away by the picture quality, and where this set shines above the vizio is when watching 4K HDR content on youtube.

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post #4486 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 12:24 PM
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So I have mixed feelings about this tv so far. I've tried watching non-4K and SDR content on both CW and Google Play apps, and I'm highly disappointed in the picture quality. I realize this may be an issue with the apps themselves, but then i'm also underwhelmed by the picture of HDR and DV on netflix; the blacks are too crushed for my liking and the shadow detail is still lacking even after numerous attempts at tweaking the settings...and these are all the most common apps i'll use on this TV other than OTA programming. I suppose I should note that this all in comparison to the picture quality of the Vizio M that I have too. So far, the only time i've been blown away with the picture quality, and where this set shines above the vizio is when watching 4K HDR content on youtube.
For HDR and DV, you have to go to expert settings (only accessible on a smart phone/tablet through the roku app) and change gamma to 1.8. There seems to be a gamma issue with the P series currently in HDR and DV, however changing gamma to 1.8 helps a lot, and brings the image quality to near identical to my LG C7.
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post #4487 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 12:26 PM
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I've had a Panasonic plasma as my main TV for 9 years. I wanted to go the 4k route, so I researched and found that this TV (the Best Buy version) was universally considered the best budget 4k. The reviews for handling of motion seemed positive and a few on here have claimed that they saw no difference between this TV and a plasma, so I gave it a shot.

Folks, I just don't get it. The motion handling gave me a headache and was far too blurry for me. The backlight bleeds through on blank screens. This TV is no where near the quality of a plasma for motion. It's no contest. I unhooked the TCL, boxed it back up and put my plasma back into place. The picture difference is immeasurable. The TCL is headed back to Best Buy tomorrow.

To be fair, perhaps it's just the technology that doesn't stack up. It probably has nothing to do with the brand, but I just don't see how anyone can say that this LED TV competes with a quality plasma. I guess the next thing for me that could compete is an OLED? I've read where motion blur is supposedly virtually non-existent in those.
I came from a Panny 55VT60, and before that a 720P Panny, about 11 years total. I haven't noticed anything regarding motion handling. For me some things were better on the plasma, some things better on the TCL. Sorry it didn't work out.

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For HDR and DV, you have to go to expert settings (only accessible on a smart phone/tablet through the roku app) and change gamma to 1.8. There seems to be a gamma issue with the P series currently in HDR and DV, however changing gamma to 1.8 helps a lot, and brings the image quality to near identical to my LG C7.
I just tried that it helped a little bit so thank you for the suggestion. What about HDR settings between brightness and picture mode? I inputted the white balance and colorspace calibrations from rtings. I know every set is different and calibrations vary individually, so i'm thinking I should reset those too?

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post #4489 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 12:51 PM
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I just noticed that HDMI 1 input does not show up on my home screen, and for the life of me, I can't figure out how to access it. I tried connecting a device to it, but nothing. Any ideas?

EDIT: nevermind, I just figured it out. I accidentally labeled it as Cable TV...doh

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post #4490 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post
For HDR and DV, you have to go to expert settings (only accessible on a smart phone/tablet through the roku app) and change gamma to 1.8. There seems to be a gamma issue with the P series currently in HDR and DV, however changing gamma to 1.8 helps a lot, and brings the image quality to near identical to my LG C7.
Changing the gamma to 1.8 is probably going to make the colors a lot less accurate, right? Though applying a 1.8 gamma to all colors will make everything pop more, I can't imagine that it's all that accurate (unless the TV is actually woefully inaccurate to begin with, which isn't the case from what I've read).

I do agree that Netflix DV is pretty crushed though. I found that changing the HDR mode from Dark to Bright made things look a better/natural. I wonder how 1.8 gamma compares to this.
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post #4491 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 01:52 PM
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Chess, don’t overthink it. If you just want better sound than the speakers in the tv, the Vizio will be fine. Going down the road of “well if I just spend a few more $$ I can get something better” gets to be a slippery and never ending slope.

Some advice though, I’m not aware of 39” sound bar from Vizio. Did you mean the 38? I used to have one. 2 things:

1) You’re going to be turning it on and off and adjusting the volume on it independently (via the Vizio remote). If you want a more seamless experience of having the sound bar turn on and off with the tv as well as adjust the volume with th tv’s remote, look for one that’s got ARC on it. The newer 2017 Vizios have this as do some other sound bar mfg’s.

2) Be aware that 38” is too wide to fit between the stands of 605/607. Max is going to be 36”. Maybe you’re wall mounting, or maybe you simply don’t care if the sound bar sticks out in front of the stands. But just worth mentioning so you’re aware.
Agree. Don't over think Chess Red Eagle. I have the Vizio SB3651_E6 soundbar connected via HDMI ARC. The 36" soundbar fits perfectly between the 38" width of TV stand. Wireless subwoofer that surround speakers connect to make for an easy minimal wiring solution. Can control TV and soundbar volume with Roku remote and the sound output is more than adequate for most TV and Movie enjoyment.
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post #4492 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 01:52 PM
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Anyone else think Longmire (NF) looks amazing on this set? Seems the pallete and general look of the show really play to its strengths. Very detailed and contrasty, with lots of warm outdoor scenes. There was a long-distance shot in the finale last night of a horse being ridden against a backdrop of mountains and trees that dwarfed it which was simply gorgeous. And, resolution is usually pretty low on my list of priorities but detail was preserved on the horse (which was quite small in the frame) in a way 1080p couldn't approach.

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post #4493 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by submatrix View Post
Changing the gamma to 1.8 is probably going to make the colors a lot less accurate, right? Though applying a 1.8 gamma to all colors will make everything pop more, I can't imagine that it's all that accurate (unless the TV is actually woefully inaccurate to begin with, which isn't the case from what I've read).

I do agree that Netflix DV is pretty crushed though. I found that changing the HDR mode from Dark to Bright made things look a better/natural. I wonder how 1.8 gamma compares to this.
I see no change to colors when changing gamma to 1.8 in expert settings. I have a C7 to compare side-by-side and with 1.8 gamma the P series is getting so close to the C7 image quality in HDR/DV that the price difference becomes a serious problem. I think in general HDR and DV are a mess, they are still emerging standards and getting the bugs worked out. The amount of grain visible on the C7 makes most HDR and DV content unwatchable.
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post #4494 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by PeeJHooK View Post
I just tried that it helped a little bit so thank you for the suggestion. What about HDR settings between brightness and picture mode? I inputted the white balance and colorspace calibrations from rtings. I know every set is different and calibrations vary individually, so i'm thinking I should reset those too?
Do not use Rtings settings, they can be used maybe as a starting point if you have calibration tools, otherwise it is best to just set you color temp to warm and adjust other settings to your liking, dont mess with any of the white point balance values unless you have calibration tools. The P series is pretty accurate right out the box with the warm color temp setting. I had to exchange my P series a few times, and all looked very accurate with the warm color temp setting.
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post #4495 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jwhazel01 View Post
Chess, don’t overthink it. If you just want better sound than the speakers in the tv, the Vizio will be fine. Going down the road of “well if I just spend a few more $$ I can get something better” gets to be a slippery and never ending slope.

Some advice though, I’m not aware of 39” sound bar from Vizio. Did you mean the 38? I used to have one. 2 things:

1) You’re going to be turning it on and off and adjusting the volume on it independently (via the Vizio remote). If you want a more seamless experience of having the sound bar turn on and off with the tv as well as adjust the volume with th tv’s remote, look for one that’s got ARC on it. The newer 2017 Vizios have this as do some other sound bar mfg’s.

2) Be aware that 38” is too wide to fit between the stands of 605/607. Max is going to be 36”. Maybe you’re wall mounting, or maybe you simply don’t care if the sound bar sticks out in front of the stands. But just worth mentioning so you’re aware.
Yeah, I looked into a few things and the soundbar will be perfectly good. I was referring to the 38 inch but I will focus on the 36 inch if I can find a good one. If not I can live with it sticking out a bit.
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post #4496 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 02:02 PM
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Chess, don’t overthink it. If you just want better sound than the speakers in the tv, the Vizio will be fine. Going down the road of “well if I just spend a few more $$ I can get something better” gets to be a slippery and never ending slope.
When it comes to soundbars, you can always do better. That's just a fact. They're feature poor and often times their cost vs features makes them a bad buy and the sound is not very good unless you really fork over some cash. It's supposed convenience over quality.

On an A/V hobbyist site like this it's tantamount to going into a car hobbyist forum and saying if you buy one classic car then you'll want to buy more classic cars or better classic cars.

If you invest wisely in a solid A/V system you will get so much more enjoyment out of your purchase.

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post #4497 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 02:03 PM
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I see no change to colors when changing gamma to 1.8 in expert settings. I have a C7 to compare side-by-side and with 1.8 gamma the P series is getting so close to the C7 image quality in HDR/DV that the price difference becomes a serious problem. I think in general HDR and DV are a mess, they are still emerging standards and getting the bugs worked out. The amount of grain visible on the C7 makes most HDR and DV content unwatchable.
What settings are you running if you don’t mind me asking?
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post #4498 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 02:48 PM
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I see no change to colors when changing gamma to 1.8 in expert settings. I have a C7 to compare side-by-side and with 1.8 gamma the P series is getting so close to the C7 image quality in HDR/DV that the price difference becomes a serious problem. I think in general HDR and DV are a mess, they are still emerging standards and getting the bugs worked out. The amount of grain visible on the C7 makes most HDR and DV content unwatchable.
So do you get crushed black detail on your C7 as well? What's your overall take on HDR/DV content on both? For instance, I'm using Stranger Things S2 for reference because the dark scenes from this show can really push black levels and shadow detail. Both my M65 and this P tv struggle with it.

I guess I must have just been really spoiled by my plasma these last four years.

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post #4499 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 02:54 PM
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So do you get crushed black detail on your C7 as well? What's your overall take on HDR/DV content on both? For instance, I'm using Stranger Things S2 for reference because the dark scenes from this show can really push black levels and shadow detail. Both my M65 and this P tv struggle with it.

I guess I must have just been really spoiled by my plasma these last four years.
If you think the P series is crushing black, the C7 is in a whole different category. The OLED technology has (at least currently) an inherent problem with near black. Any information that is near black or black is completely black, as in completely missing. I also had a Samsung Q9 for one day before returning it due to a few issues and it too crushed blacks with HDR and DV. The issue isnt with the P series its with HDR and DV in general. I got Ghost in the Shell on 4k bluray/HDR and it is unwatchable in some scenes due to the complete loss of detail in dark scenes, that is on both the C7 and P series. It does not matter which settings are applied on either set, in dark scenes there is just no detail. Im using an Xbox One X as the player and im sure that has a little to do with it, however in general im noticing HDR and DV are just a complete mess currently.
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post #4500 of 6354 Old 12-09-2017, 03:44 PM
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When it comes to soundbars, you can always do better. That's just a fact. They're feature poor and often times their cost vs features makes them a bad buy and the sound is not very good unless you really fork over some cash. It's supposed convenience over quality.

On an A/V hobbyist site like this it's tantamount to going into a car hobbyist forum and saying if you buy one classic car then you'll want to buy more classic cars or better classic cars.

If you invest wisely in a solid A/V system you will get so much more enjoyment out of your purchase.
Despite my join date, I'm far from being new here (old account is locked somehow and can't seem to get a mod to help fix it so I gave up and made a new one). There are some garbage soundbars but theres also some really good ones that offer convenience and quality. There is always a point of diminishing returns when spending money on audio equipment. I've had various surround setups for the past 17 years now. Currently I have several grand invested in a mid-level setup in my basement (pioneer elite + vienna acoustics). I also have $150 invested in a cheap little 5.1 soundbar setup in the living room hooked up to my new P605 (Vizio sb3651). Does the one in the basement sound better? Of course. Does it sound thousands of $$ better? No, not really. I hit that point of diminishing returns along time ago. But at least I can accept that and be honest about it. The Vizio is surprisingly good for what it costs and I have yet to find any real compromise it had to make given the price point.

I'm certainly not going to be throwing away my basement setup any time soon. It's a hobby. But I'm also not going to turn my nose up at soundbars just because thats the hip thing to do in the audio community. Again, I emphasize, I owned the 38" soundbar he's asking about. Had it for several years. I can tell you first hand it's a perfectly acceptable piece of equipment and a good value for the price compared to seperates. Get's loud, good channel seperation, good dialog lift, decent bass, very convenient. Other than my notes above, it's a good all around fix to crappy tv speakers. Do you actually have any experience with this model that you're talking it down so much? Although certainly well intentioned, I respectfully challenge that your proposed setup offers twice the sound quality and convenience for twice the price.
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