*Official* 2017 TCL P-Series (55P607) Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 155 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4621 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by zarquon27 View Post
Interesting. That sounds to me like "We have no idea, try this..." The fact that it only occurs on some (not quite all) Amazon HDR10 content, (and no other streaming service), and that multiple users seem to agree on just *which* programs are affected, and which are not, sure makes it sound like an Amazon issue to me. I think I'll be holding off on a full factory reset for now, and see what develops.
This is weird: I wasn't seeing these washed-out HDR things that folks have been reporting here, and I posted earlier wondering if maybe the Roku update was responsible, because my P605 is still on the 7.7 OS. Long story short, tonight the HDR content on Amazon looks like ****, and nothing has changed. Go figure, but it looks washed-out big time, whereas it didn't before, and yet no software has changed on my end. Both the Roku Os and the Amazon app are the same version numbers.

I am mystified. Please, someone explain this.
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post #4622 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 05:37 AM
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If the VT60 is a 10 on blacks, the TCL is a 8.5-9.
This is amazing to me considering the vt60 was one of the best non-Kuro plasmas ever. I'd guess that if you have a lamp or two on at night blacks are essentially the same? Although the vt60 has an amazing black filter on it also, so maybe it does have more depth.
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post #4623 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Twiceborn View Post
My Panasonic VT60 has better blacks than the TCL, but the TCL has better blacks than my 10 year old Vizio Plasma. It also depends on the settings. If the VT60 is a 10 on blacks, the TCL is a 8.5-9.
The blacks on my VT60 were not as good as the TCL, but I'll chalk that up to settings perhaps.
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post #4624 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 06:58 AM
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Looking at all the posts about the grey uniformity issues in the menu, is that the only time it shows up? Any type of content like games, apps, movies, etc. and the picture is fine right?
If so I don't think it will be a big deal for me. Viewing angle either since it's for a relatively small living room with me sitting front and center less than 10 feet away. At most I might have people on the edge on the futon I have but the angle would be shallow.

Would the angles truly be THAT bad or do you really have to be dead center?
You will notice it during sports and other scenes in movies with color. Its not terrible but im picky so mine is going back. You will start noticing during football games dark spots that wont move on the screen with turf showing.
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post #4625 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by CLE_802 View Post
How do blacks of the TCL compare vs the plasma when the room is dark or dim? How about blacks when you have more lamps on?

Does normal 720p/1080i cable look similar between TCL and plasmas?

What picture setting do you have the vt60 on?

Curious to see what others recommend about motion. I also have a plasma and I'm worried about blacks and upscaling vs the TCL....hence all the questions. Thanks.
IMO, if there is one thing the TCL does is black. Inky blacks as often stated in the thread, I am coming from a Panny VT60 and 720p Panny before that. I watch broadcast tv from an OTA Tivo connected via HDMI, I think it looks just as good as the plasma if not better but would really need to see them side by side. The VT60 I had I was using mostly the Cnet settings but some tweeked.

Hope this helps.
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post #4626 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 07:12 AM
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You will notice it during sports and other scenes in movies with color. Its not terrible but im picky so mine is going back. You will start noticing during football games dark spots that wont move on the screen with turf showing.
True. Will notice some in hockey, when the camera pans left or right. I noticed that as well on my plasma. Would be nice to have a set with perfect gray uniformity. I watch a lot of hockey and between settings and gray uniformity I like the picture coming from the TCL better than the plasma.

I barely notice in football, either I am just not good at noticing or your TCL may have more gray uniformity issues than mine.
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post #4627 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 07:24 AM
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True. Will notice some in hockey, when the camera pans left or right. I noticed that as well on my plasma. Would be nice to have a set with perfect gray uniformity. I watch a lot of hockey and between settings and gray uniformity I like the picture coming from the TCL better than the plasma.

I barely notice in football, either I am just not good at noticing or your TCL may have more gray uniformity issues than mine.
From what I have gathered, mine is about the same as everyone else. I am a graphic designer so maybe I am just sensitive to that kind of stuff. Either way it is a nice set outside of that. Im really going to miss the roku ui. I hope my next tv has the same amazing colors.
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post #4628 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Wolfer View Post
This is weird: I wasn't seeing these washed-out HDR things that folks have been reporting here, and I posted earlier wondering if maybe the Roku update was responsible, because my P605 is still on the 7.7 OS. Long story short, tonight the HDR content on Amazon looks like ****, and nothing has changed. Go figure, but it looks washed-out big time, whereas it didn't before, and yet no software has changed on my end. Both the Roku Os and the Amazon app are the same version numbers.

I am mystified. Please, someone explain this.
Sorry to hear that you are now part of the Amazon HDR10 'washed out' club. I wonder if this has anything to do with Amazon and Samsung promoting how starting today HDR10+ content can be streamed from Amazon Prime to select Samsung hardware? Is adding HDR10+ (Dynamic Tone Mapping) support mucking up our HDR10 streams and tone mapping?


If you are experiencing the issue now with HDR10 content via Amazon Video app, it might be helpful if you went to the Roku Forum and provide the information requested in the support thread for HDR10 Amazon Video issue. https://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=109487
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post #4629 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 07:30 AM
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I watched The Big Sick over the weekend and experienced washed out HDR. I thought it was an aesthetic choice that was part of the movie but I guess not.

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post #4630 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 07:40 AM
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All,

Just setting my new unit up (delivered yesterday) and the wife wants me to get a thumb drive for the 'stop/pause/rewind' feature for OTA. I did a search with several keywords but came up basically empty.

Anyone tried this and, if you did, does it work OK? Any suggestions, if you use it?

Thanks.

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post #4631 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 07:49 AM
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All,

Just setting my new unit up (delivered yesterday) and the wife wants me to get a thumb drive for the 'stop/pause/rewind' feature for OTA. I did a search with several keywords but came up basically empty.

Anyone tried this and, if you did, does it work OK? Any suggestions, if you use it?

Thanks.
If i remember correctly when you connect your antenna then go to setup for it to search for channels, you are prompted asking if you would like to set it up.
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post #4632 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by robsis View Post
All,

Just setting my new unit up (delivered yesterday) and the wife wants me to get a thumb drive for the 'stop/pause/rewind' feature for OTA. I did a search with several keywords but came up basically empty.

Anyone tried this and, if you did, does it work OK? Any suggestions, if you use it?

Thanks.
Here you go. https://support.roku.com/article/115...-your-roku-tv-


Has instructions for before you setup Antenna TV and if you have already setup Antenna TV and want to ADD Live TV Pause feature. Works great, by the way. Just plug the USB Flash Drive in (I used 16GB SanDisk) and it will prompt you through the process to setup Live TV Pause and will format the drive and you are all set to go. Tune to a OTA channel and it immediately starts to buffer the channel and allows you to PAUSE, REWIND and FFWD. Buffer allows for up to 90 minutes to be queued, then it starts over. You change the channel and the buffer is dumped and starts for new channel. Nice for instant replay using 10-second REPLAY button on Roku remote during sporting events. Also nice if you turn on Closed Captioning ON REPLAY option to jump back and have closed captioning turn on to catch missed dialog.

I actually picked up a dual-port USB adapter and plugged that in so that I could still have a free USB port if I ever wanted to stream something from a second flash drive.
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post #4633 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 09:20 AM
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Sorry to hear that you are now part of the Amazon HDR10 'washed out' club. I wonder if this has anything to do with Amazon and Samsung promoting how starting today HDR10+ content can be streamed from Amazon Prime to select Samsung hardware? Is adding HDR10+ (Dynamic Tone Mapping) support mucking up our HDR10 streams and tone mapping?


If you are experiencing the issue now with HDR10 content via Amazon Video app, it might be helpful if you went to the Roku Forum and provide the information requested in the support thread for HDR10 Amazon Video issue. https://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=109487
It does seem increasingly likely that this is largely an Amazon issue. Multiple users seem to agree on specific programs that do or do not display correctly, such as The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel episode 1 being okay but subsequent episodes are not. The TV has no way of knowing what program is being streamed, much less which episode, so clearly there is a difference in the file at the source. That it might be Amazon mucking about with their fledgling HDR10+ support is as good a guess as any, especially since that apparently starts today. Still, it's a mystery why this only seems to have been noticed and reported by TCL users specifically...
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post #4634 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by zarquon27 View Post
It does seem increasingly likely that this is largely an Amazon issue. Multiple users seem to agree on specific programs that do or do not display correctly, such as The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel episode 1 being okay but subsequent episodes are not. The TV has no way of knowing what program is being streamed, much less which episode, so clearly there is a difference in the file at the source. That it might be Amazon mucking about with their fledgling HDR10+ support is as good a guess as any, especially since that apparently starts today. Still, it's a mystery why this only seems to have been noticed and reported by TCL users specifically...
Agree. Does seem to be something that is Amazon HDR10 specific with the native Amazon Video app on TCL Roku. Not even specific to P series. Poster in the Roku support thread with a C series TCL is seeing the issue as well. Have also seen posters here state that an external XBox running the Amazon Video app connected to TCL plays HDR10 content correctly, but native Amazon Video app on TCL does not. Poster in the Roku support forum also connected an external Roku device with HDR support to his TCL P series set and Amazon Video app on it plays HDR10 content fine. They jump back to native Amazon Video app on TCL set and it is back to muted washed out picture.
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post #4635 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 10:03 AM
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I wonder if it’s a potential problem with this TV having Dolby vision support? Maybe that’s causing problems somehow. Does the C series that was mentioned having issues also have DV?

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post #4636 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Chess Red Eagle View Post
Looking at all the posts about the grey uniformity issues in the menu, is that the only time it shows up? Any type of content like games, apps, movies, etc. and the picture is fine right?
If so I don't think it will be a big deal for me. Viewing angle either since it's for a relatively small living room with me sitting front and center less than 10 feet away. At most I might have people on the edge on the futon I have but the angle would be shallow.

Would the angles truly be THAT bad or do you really have to be dead center?
I sit 10' away from my P605 that is on a table 29" tall. Someone sitting to your left or right on a futon or spread out on a sofa will be fine. Angles have to be pretty extreme from a severe shallow depth to really wash out color. I am not saying there are not use cases where it may be poor, but your described viewing environment would be okay.
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post #4637 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 10:36 AM
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I wonder if it’s a potential problem with this TV having Dolby vision support? Maybe that’s causing problems somehow. Does the C series that was mentioned having issues also have DV?
Yes. C Series supports both HDR10 and DV. Season 2 of Bosch on Amazon Prime is in DV and it displays just fine. Seems to be most Amazon Prime HDR10 content via the native Amazon Video app.
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post #4638 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 10:37 AM
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So I finally bought the TCL P605 from Best Buy.

This is for my bedroom. It is replacing a very old Vizio Plasma.


Pros:

1) Using settings from rtings, the color accuracy is stunning. Very accurate.
2) 4K HDR from Youtube is absolutely beautiful.
3) Cable is okay quality
4) Regular Youtube and Netflix is okay although darker than the Vizio plasma.
5) Blacks almost as good as Plasma, or at least it doesn't bother me.

Cons:

1) Havent used it for bluray yet but for Netflix and Youtube I notice there is some motion issues? Like stuttering, low FPS? Not sure if its just for streaming. Hopefully, bluray doesn't have it.
2) Non-HDR stuff isn't as bright/vivid as my Vizio Plasma, or even my Panasonic VT60 Plasma. The plasmas have a more natural look and the colors are more vivid.
3) The viewing angle is horrible but since I am watching it straight ahead on my bed, its fine.


Anyone else getting issues with the motion? I'm going to try Bluray later this weekend. I have 30 days to return it to Best Buy. If the motion issue persists even for bluray, I may just get a Sony 900E or even the LG OLED 55. I only bought this cause it was $600 and my Vizio is having HDMI connection issues (turning on and off, etc). Is the Sony 900e way better? More vivid colors?

My wife hates this tv though. She loves the Plasma. She even thinks the 10 year old Vizio Plasma is better than the Panasonic VT60. I think I know why. She likes the "brighter" setting on the Vizio (with less sunlight in the room) than the Panasonic, especially since the Panasonic is watched with too much daylight which drowns out the colors. I actually prefer the Panasonic with more accurate colors, especially at night.
are you sure? i thought the Best Buy policy was 14 days for tv returns.
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post #4639 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 11:30 AM
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are you sure? i thought the Best Buy policy was 14 days for tv returns.
Is it? I think cause of the Christmas holidays it is extended.
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post #4640 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 11:49 AM
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Guys, I posted my calibration settings below. If anyone else would care to post their settings that would be great!


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...on-thread.html
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post #4641 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by zarquon27 View Post
It does seem increasingly likely that this is largely an Amazon issue. Multiple users seem to agree on specific programs that do or do not display correctly, such as The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel episode 1 being okay but subsequent episodes are not. The TV has no way of knowing what program is being streamed, much less which episode, so clearly there is a difference in the file at the source. That it might be Amazon mucking about with their fledgling HDR10+ support is as good a guess as any, especially since that apparently starts today. Still, it's a mystery why this only seems to have been noticed and reported by TCL users specifically...
Well, if it is a HDR10+ mastering issue for us TCL users of the native Amazon Video app, we are in for an unpleasant transition. Forbes article states that Amazon has confirmed that "every bit of content that’s available on Amazon Video in HDR will immediately also be available in HDR10+."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#4e565d0255eb

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post #4642 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 12:47 PM
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The Panasonic looks better on cable. I would say significantly better but I can still live with the TCL.
I don't think this is entirely fair on the TCL, its more of a case of the TCL (with its higher native resolution) being able to show the short comings of the low resolution and overly compressed cable signal, the Panny isn't better its just hides poor source material better.
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post #4643 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 12:55 PM
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Is it? I think cause of the Christmas holidays it is extended.
Correct, anything purchased 10/29-12/30 is able to be returned till 1/14, they also cover price matching for the same period. Was able to save $100 on a X1 years ago that way.
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post #4644 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 01:09 PM
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so amazon hdr went from being too dark to washed out now?

gonna check out some of the amazon original movies i watched recently that i thought were too dark (manchester by the sea bar scene around 10:00 mark and paterson bar scenes as well)

i did watch a few episodes of Red Oak S1 and thought it looked a bit washed out but i thought maybe that was just how it was supposed to look.
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post #4645 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 01:11 PM
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Well, if it is a HDR10+ mastering issue for us TCL users of the native Amazon Video app, we are in for an unpleasant transition. Forbes article states that Amazon has confirmed that "every bit of content that’s available on Amazon Video in HDR will immediately also be available in HDR10+."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#4e565d0255eb
I fear you are correct; I just checked the couple of programs I found that still looked good a day or two ago (Grand Tour season 2, and the first episode of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel), and now they look bad as well. Still, you'd think they would want HDR10+ to be fully backwards compatible. Surely it could be fixed with an Amazon app update. Unless it really only affects TCL TVs, in which case we may be too small a user base for them to care. That would be terrible customer relations, though.
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post #4646 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 01:21 PM
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I fear you are correct; I just checked the couple of programs I found that still looked good a day or two ago (Grand Tour season 2, and the first episode of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel), and now they look bad as well. Still, you'd think they would want HDR10+ to be fully backwards compatible. Surely it could be fixed with an Amazon app update. Unless it really only affects TCL TVs, in which case we may be too small a user base for them to care. That would be terrible customer relations, though.
Just checked The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel EPISODE 1 and see the same result. That episode looked great yesterday when I was viewing various content to report back to the Roku support forum. Now, it is just as washed out and lacking tone mapping as all other HDR10 content on Amazon Video.

If there is a positive out of all this, it could be that Amazon has managed to muck this up for some of us so quickly that perhaps an adjustment and correction can be just as prompt! Let's hope.

Last edited by blade005; 12-13-2017 at 02:40 PM.
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post #4647 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 01:23 PM
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Based on a quick Google search on hdr 10+ Samsung is able to push it out to 16 model tv's via firmware, so tcl should be able to also. Only time will tell.

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post #4648 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Twiceborn View Post
Pros:

1) Using settings from rtings, the color accuracy is stunning. Very accurate.
2) 4K HDR from Youtube is absolutely beautiful.
3) Cable is okay quality
4) Regular Youtube and Netflix is okay although darker than the Vizio plasma.
5) Blacks almost as good as Plasma, or at least it doesn't bother me.

Cons:

1) Havent used it for bluray yet but for Netflix and Youtube I notice there is some motion issues? Like stuttering, low FPS? Not sure if its just for streaming. Hopefully, bluray doesn't have it.
2) Non-HDR stuff isn't as bright/vivid as my Vizio Plasma, or even my Panasonic VT60 Plasma. The plasmas have a more natural look and the colors are more vivid.
3) The viewing angle is horrible but since I am watching it straight ahead on my bed, its fine.
Agree 100%. Plasma handles 1080p content better. Not sure if the upscaling abilities of the TCL are subpar but watching cable TV is night and day between the two. Also, whenever I switch from the TCL to plasma I immediately notice the difference in motion. It’s very subtle and my eyes adjust almost instantly. There’s just something about the look of plasma, whether it’s the motion or the color pop. Ultimately, I went 4k, and specifically the TCL, because content availability is picking up and when viewed with such sources - such as Netflix UHD, PS4 Pro/X1X - that is where the TCL really shines.
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post #4649 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 03:27 PM
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Based on a quick Google search on hdr 10+ Samsung is able to push it out to 16 model tv's via firmware, so tcl should be able to also. Only time will tell.

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HDR10+ is Samsung's creation, though, so of course they are pushing it out to their own sets via firmware. I'm not aware of any other TV manufacturers stating that they will support HDR10+ yet, and the whole idea of HDR10+ is kinda anti-Dolby Vision, so brands like TCL that support Dolby Vision are even less likely to ever support HDR10+, on new TVs or on existing ones, unless they ditch Dolby Vision.

Yayyy format wars :/
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post #4650 of 6434 Old 12-13-2017, 03:50 PM
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Regarding viewing angles, I don't know if this is normal, but it's unacceptable to me. My P605 is already packed up and ready to go back to Best Buy on Saturday as soon as a friend can help me return it - no way it would fit in my car.

Here is a pic taken directly in front of the the TV - I paused it to have the same scene in both pics. Zoom on camera is same and both pics were taken one right after the other:





And here is that same scene taken off to the side where I normally sit at my PC:





Another set of pics taken, this time not quite at as extreme of an angle:







I went to Costco yesterday, and nothing I saw looked all that bad from an extreme angle in the first two aisles, but in the third aisle they had a TCL on display next to an LG. I stood at an angle and took a couple of pics. Doesn't seem to be just my TV. The TCL is the farthest away:





This evening I unhooked the TCL and packed it back in the box. My old 49" TV looks tiny now but wasn't nearly as washed out at an angle. The angle of this pic is closer to the Family Guy pic than the HGTV pic, but even at the HGTV angle and more, it's nowhere near as awful looking. This pic was taken on live TV instead of paused:





And for the record, I normally leave the TV on HGTV during the day for my dog as there doesn't tend to be a lot of shouting and volume variations, for the most part.
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