*Official* 2017 TCL P-Series (55P607) Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 35 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1021 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by theboomr View Post
Glad to see the TV getting high regards from Rtings! It seems they got a panel with pretty decent black uniformity compared to some of us, although mine seems to be improving a bit the more I use it...That could just be a placebo effect though. I really need to take some more pictures in total darkness just to compare to those first pictures I took. I know OLEDs have a wear-in period of a few hundred hours but I'm not sure if LED TVs also have a wear-in period at all.

I think I've decided to just keep this TV instead of going through the hassle to return it. I do wish they'd enable local dimming in game mode, but even if they don't it isn't a huge deal to go into settings and switch game mode off and local dimming on whenever we watch a BD (UHD BD, in the future with my Xbox One X) on the Xbox. All our other movie/TV watching will happen through the Roku streaming apps for the most part.

The other thing I want to figure out is why that ghosting happens when viewing BD content in Movie mode. Still need to do some tests to see if that happens in other content too, or if it's only specifically Blu Rays and Movie mode combined that cause it.

It would also be nice to get a motion setting to do black frame insertions, as Rtings suggested.
Give them time, pretty sure you will get your wish on gaming mode

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post #1022 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 01:08 PM
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Give them time, pretty sure you will get your wish on gaming mode
You're getting my hopes up!
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post #1023 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 01:11 PM
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Those settings look really extreme. 0 backlight, 100 contrast? That's very different than my 50 backlight and 30 contrast.

Any thoughts on these settings or care to list your own to compare?
Most likely this is cause it was done in a pitch black room. Which I'm pretty thankful for since this is my bedroom tv. I plugged in all the settings and it looks really good. Then again this tv looked great without touching any color already. I imagine you can tweak all the brightness/contrast settings to fit your liking. Really hope TCL adds some options for motion and then of course enable FALD in game mode.

One thing I did notice is that on my Disney WOW disc I was noticing no matter what adjustment I made, I was getting white clipping on the +2% and +4% I think. Haven't noticed it under any normal viewing but thought it was interesting. We watched Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them on bluray and it looked good, didn't really notice and trails. Just some judder here and there. Still get some DSE both horizontal and vertical but nothing to detract too much. Probably performs better than my ST60 in that regard. Going to email TCL now in hopes to get my remote replaced. Randomly died last night completely while watching netflix. I did notice the battery died after about 5 days of use so not surprised something is up.
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post #1024 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 01:12 PM
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Give them time, pretty sure you will get your wish on gaming mode
is this just conjecture or is the a sign that you know something we don't haha.
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post #1025 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by garnettrules21 View Post
Most likely this is cause it was done in a pitch black room. Which I'm pretty thankful for since this is my bedroom tv. I plugged in all the settings and it looks really good. Then again this tv looked great without touching any color already. I imagine you can tweak all the brightness/contrast settings to fit your liking. Really hope TCL adds some options for motion and then of course enable FALD in game mode.

One thing I did notice is that on my Disney WOW disc I was noticing no matter what adjustment I made, I was getting white clipping on the +2% and +4% I think. Haven't noticed it under any normal viewing but thought it was interesting. We watched Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them on bluray and it looked good, didn't really notice and trails. Just some judder here and there. Still get some DSE both horizontal and vertical but nothing to detract too much. Probably performs better than my ST60 in that regard. Going to email TCL now in hopes to get my remote replaced. Randomly died last night completely while watching netflix. I did notice the battery died after about 5 days of use so not surprised something is up.
I have asked them for settings for motion control, not sure how long or if that will come to fruition but I am on it.
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post #1026 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Viper32 View Post
I have asked them for settings for motion control, not sure how long or if that will come to fruition but I am on it.
Yea I did the same thing on twitter. I'm curious to know if any other tv has enabled or added features like entire motion controls before. I'm hoping thats not something so extensive its not able to be added. But I would think there would be a service menu in this tv that eventually someone will root around in to see if there is any options even in there. At least they are already pushing out updates, even though reports are that they made the FALD too aggressive (haven't really noticed a big difference myself).
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post #1027 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 01:26 PM
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@PurpleSunday

You want your contrast as high as possible, and their backlight is at 0 because they calibrate to ISF spec, which is 100 nits in SDR.
When you drop your contrast, you're basically killing the dynamic range of the TV. Better set contrast to 100 and lower backlight if it is too bright for you.
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post #1028 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 01:32 PM
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@PurpleSunday

You want your contrast as high as possible, and their backlight is at 0 because they calibrate to ISF spec, which is 100 nits in SDR.
When you drop your contrast, you're basically killing the dynamic range of the TV. Better set contrast to 100 and lower backlight if it is too bright for you.
Thanks for the lesson! I'll make the switch tonight.
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post #1029 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Viper32 View Post
I have asked them for settings for motion control, not sure how long or if that will come to fruition but I am on it.
Can you ask them for a way to disable the power LED when the set is turned off?

Also, believe it or not TCL, but not everyone owns/uses an iOS or Android device. The Roku app for Windows does not support the advanced display configuration. Please ask them to support all platforms equally, make a web app, or just add it into the set's on-screen configuration.

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post #1030 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 02:08 PM
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Can you ask them for a way to disable the power LED when the set is turned off?

Also, believe it or not TCL, but not everyone owns/uses an iOS or Android device. The Roku app for Windows does not support the advanced display configuration. Please ask them to support all platforms equally, make a web app, or just add it into the set's on-screen configuration.
The LED on mine is turned off when the TV is turned off...
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post #1031 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
@PurpleSunday

You want your contrast as high as possible, and their backlight is at 0 because they calibrate to ISF spec, which is 100 nits in SDR.
When you drop your contrast, you're basically killing the dynamic range of the TV. Better set contrast to 100 and lower backlight if it is too bright for you.
You almost got it right. The contrast setting should be thought of as "white level", brightness as "black level", and backlight is the light source for the LCD panel. You want to set contrast to its highest level without clipping the whitest whites. Opposite goes for brightness, you want to set it as low as possible without loosing detail in the darkest blacks. To do this properly you must use a calibration disk, or something like the builtin calibration slides on the xbox one. Also be sure to set HDMI source level accordingly (most likely it should be set to "standard"). As for the backlight, Rtings, as well as most other professional reviewers/calibrators, aim for a peak brightness of 120cd/m2 in SDR content. This can be changed to whatever suits your viewing environment and preferences, and will have no affect (at least not noticeable) on picture contrast. Increasing the backlight will raise the black levels, making them more gray, however it will also increase the brightness of white.

As for this P607, ive been following it for a while and it really seems like the ultimate bargain in LCD right now, and possibly even the best LCD for gaming to ever exist. Wide color gamut, HDR, 4k, low input lag, fast response time, what more could you want? I will for sure be picking up one of these when they come back in stock to use as a gaming display. TCL is obviously out to grab more market share from the big three, and its working.
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post #1032 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 02:12 PM
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am i blind or is there no way to turn off that LED/ir sensor that flashes when you use the remote?

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The LED on mine is turned off when the TV is turned off...
same here.
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post #1033 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 02:19 PM
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The LED on mine is turned off when the TV is turned off...
I am speaking of the white LED status indicator at the bottom center of the set. It is lit when the set is turned off, and turns off when the set is on and active. My previous Samsung F8500 plasma had the power indicator the same way. On the Samsung it was red, and easily covered up by one of these:

http://www.lightdims.com/store.htm

The way the LED is placed on this set makes using these covers impractical. I would rather disable the functionality altogether like my Panasonic Plasma (prior to the Samsung) allowed.

Maybe it turns off itself eventually? I do know that immediately turning off the set turns the white LED status indicator on and my wife keeps commenting on it.

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post #1034 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 02:24 PM
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I am speaking of the white LED status indicator at the bottom center of the set. It is lit when the set is turned off, and turns off when the set is on and active. My previous Samsung F8500 plasma had the power indicator the same way. On the Samsung it was red, and easily covered up by one of these:

http://www.lightdims.com/store.htm

The way the LED is placed on this set makes using these covers impractical. I would rather disable the functionality altogether like my Panasonic Plasma (prior to the Samsung) allowed.

Maybe it turns off itself eventually? I do know that immediately turning off the set turns the white LED status indicator on and my wife keeps commenting on it.
I'm pretty sure there is a setting somewhere to turn off that behavior. The LED on the bottom center of my P607 only lights up when receiving input from the remote, and most definitely is not lit up while the TV is powered off.
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post #1035 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 02:25 PM
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I am speaking of the white LED status indicator at the bottom center of the set. It is lit when the set is turned off, and turns off when the set is on and active. My previous Samsung F8500 plasma had the power indicator the same way. On the Samsung it was red, and easily covered up by one of these:

http://www.lightdims.com/store.htm

The way the LED is placed on this set makes using these covers impractical. I would rather disable the functionality altogether like my Panasonic Plasma (prior to the Samsung) allowed.

Maybe it turns off itself eventually? I do know that immediately turning off the set turns the white LED status indicator on and my wife keeps commenting on it.
You can turn that off. I believe from the home menu you go to system, and then power, and there is an option to turn the standby light off when the tv is powered off.
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post #1036 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post
You almost got it right. The contrast setting should be thought of as "white level", brightness as "black level", and backlight is the light source for the LCD panel. You want to set contrast to its highest level without clipping the whitest whites. Opposite goes for brightness, you want to set it as low as possible without loosing detail in the darkest blacks. To do this properly you must use a calibration disk, or something like the builtin calibration slides on the xbox one. Also be sure to set HDMI source level accordingly (most likely it should be set to "standard"). As for the backlight, Rtings, as well as most other professional reviewers/calibrators, aim for a peak brightness of 120cd/m2 in SDR content. This can be changed to whatever suits your viewing environment and preferences, and will have no affect (at least not noticeable) on picture contrast. Increasing the backlight will raise the black levels, making them more gray, however it will also increase the brightness of white.

As for this P607, ive been following it for a while and it really seems like the ultimate bargain in LCD right now, and possibly even the best LCD for gaming to ever exist. Wide color gamut, HDR, 4k, low input lag, fast response time, what more could you want? I will for sure be picking up one of these when they come back in stock to use as a gaming display. TCL is obviously out to grab more market share from the big three, and its working.
You're right, but I didn't want to get into an in depth and technical explanation.
It seems that having Contrast at 100 on these TVs is the default, and it doesn't cause any white clipping issues. That is why I recommended setting it at 100.

I set my contrast and brightness using my i1 display pro meter using patterns. On Vizio, Contrast and Brightness are pretty much always spot on at their defaults of 50.
Last I checked, rtings are actually calibrating to 100 nits, but it doesn't really matter what the aim for. Apparently they had to drop backlight down to 0 to get as close to their target as possible.
I also calibrate my displays to 120 nits, because I watch most of my content in the dark. For a lit room I aim for about 150-160 nits, but I rarely use that picture mode.

Higher backlight does raise the black floor, but higher contrast doesn't. Contrast can make the image brighter (regardless of whether clipping occurs or not) or dimmer, but at the expense of the native contrast ratio and the dynamic range of the TV.
I have squeezed considerably more contrast out of my M55-C2 in the latest calibration, this allowed me to drop backlight down to 25 from 32 for the same 120 nits at 100% white. This allows darker blacks while keeping 100% white at the same level.
On FALD sets the raised blacks are not as noticeable as on TVs without it, even though FALD sets do have to drive the LEDs brighter to allow them have fast enough response time to go full brightness when it's necessary. It's really easily noticeable on my M60-D1, since it's IPS. And in HDR (backlight is maxed out) the black bars are mostly just grey.

I agree that all things considered, the TCL P is a better value than the Vizio M 2017, and is a bargain for its performance level.
But after looking at the review, I'm leaning to the M series, though. It seems that the gray uniformity on Vizio is better, and black uniformity is close to perfect (I think my M55-C2 is also close to perfect) and anything less than that would be an annoying downgrade for me. The benefits the TCL offers are not important factors to my personal uses, such as the awesome input lag, as I don't game.
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post #1037 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by garnettrules21 View Post
You can turn that off. I believe from the home menu you go to system, and then power, and there is an option to turn the standby light off when the tv is powered off.
I somehow missed that... I will check it out when I get home.

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post #1038 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 03:08 PM
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While on the subject of the light. The light on mine blinks twice every few seconds the entire time it's on. super annoying. Anyone have any idea what that means or where I can find out? I should mention that I don't currently have it connected to the internet so that may have something to do with it.
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post #1039 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 03:11 PM
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You're right, but I didn't want to get into an in depth and technical explanation.
It seems that having Contrast at 100 on these TVs is the default, and it doesn't cause any white clipping issues. That is why I recommended setting it at 100.

I set my contrast and brightness using my i1 display pro meter using patterns. On Vizio, Contrast and Brightness are pretty much always spot on at their defaults of 50.
Last I checked, rtings are actually calibrating to 100 nits, but it doesn't really matter what the aim for. Apparently they had to drop backlight down to 0 to get as close to their target as possible.
I also calibrate my displays to 120 nits, because I watch most of my content in the dark. For a lit room I aim for about 150-160 nits, but I rarely use that picture mode.

Higher backlight does raise the black floor, but higher contrast doesn't. Contrast can make the image brighter (regardless of whether clipping occurs or not) or dimmer, but at the expense of the native contrast ratio and the dynamic range of the TV.
I have squeezed considerably more contrast out of my M55-C2 in the latest calibration, this allowed me to drop backlight down to 25 from 32 for the same 120 nits at 100% white. This allows darker blacks while keeping 100% white at the same level.
On FALD sets the raised blacks are not as noticeable as on TVs without it, even though FALD sets do have to drive the LEDs brighter to allow them have fast enough response time to go full brightness when it's necessary. It's really easily noticeable on my M60-D1, since it's IPS. And in HDR (backlight is maxed out) the black bars are mostly just grey.

I agree that all things considered, the TCL P is a better value than the Vizio M 2017, and is a bargain for its performance level.
But after looking at the review, I'm leaning to the M series, though. It seems that the gray uniformity on Vizio is better, and black uniformity is close to perfect (I think my M55-C2 is also close to perfect) and anything less than that would be an annoying downgrade for me. The benefits the TCL offers are not important factors to my personal uses, such as the awesome input lag, as I don't game.
The 2017 m series seems like a great deal too, although the color banding issues and slightly lower color gamut when compared to the p607 would make me choose the p607 over the m series if I was shopping for a general use television. It also appears the p607 handles lower quality sources better than the m series. The price would help me look past the flash lighting and black uniformity issues although I agree, it is extremely annoying. For anyone who truly wants to eliminate those issues OLED is the way to go, though it will cost you considerably more .
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post #1040 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 03:11 PM
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While on the subject of the light. The light on mine blinks twice every few seconds the entire time it's on. super annoying. Anyone have any idea what that means or where I can find out? I should mention that I don't currently have it connected to the internet so that may have something to do with it.
Someone else mentioned a similar problem quite a ways back, but I don't think they ever posted about figuring it out or not. That wasn't you, was it? Either way, I have no idea what that means. It could be because you're not connected to the internet and like it's warning you that all the Roku stuff will be unavailable, but I'm not sure. If I remember, I'll try disconnecting mine from my WiFi tonight and see if it exhibits that behavior.
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post #1041 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 03:25 PM
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Someone else mentioned a similar problem quite a ways back, but I don't think they ever posted about figuring it out or not. That wasn't you, was it? Either way, I have no idea what that means. It could be because you're not connected to the internet and like it's warning you that all the Roku stuff will be unavailable, but I'm not sure. If I remember, I'll try disconnecting mine from my WiFi tonight and see if it exhibits that behavior.
Nope, wasn't me. unfortunately where I have the TV I don't have access to the internet right now either so I'm not easily able to test that. Thanks for your help.
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post #1042 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 03:28 PM
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Heard back from TCL support and told them about my remote and they are going to fed ex me one out tomorrow. So they get an A+ so far on customer service. I mentioned its the one with the headphone jack so hopefully I get the same one and not the one bundled with the best buy version.
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post #1043 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 03:29 PM
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The LED option is under Settings > System > Power
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post #1044 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 03:34 PM
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I agree that all things considered, the TCL P is a better value than the Vizio M 2017, and is a bargain for its performance level.
But after looking at the review, I'm leaning to the M series, though. It seems that the gray uniformity on Vizio is better, and black uniformity is close to perfect (I think my M55-C2 is also close to perfect) and anything less than that would be an annoying downgrade for me. The benefits the TCL offers are not important factors to my personal uses, such as the awesome input lag, as I don't game.
The Vizio M does seem to be the closest competitor but having to use Chromecast would drive me crazy. I keep reading that Vizio will be adding built-in apps later this summer but I haven't seen whether the OS will be Roku, Android, Tizen or something else.

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post #1045 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 03:49 PM
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The other thing I want to figure out is why that ghosting happens when viewing BD content in Movie mode. Still need to do some tests to see if that happens in other content too, or if it's only specifically Blu Rays and Movie mode combined that cause it.

It would also be nice to get a motion setting to do black frame insertions, as Rtings suggested.
I think BFI is the standard motion mode on this, or effectively BFI since it is 120Hz via back light flickering.

Have you checked another BR player to see if the ghosting is due to the Xbox or the TV.

Regarding the LED, I know my other Roku TV will flash the LED even when off while it is getting a firmware (or channel) update.

Also the LED will flash when on with remote use.
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post #1046 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Coxner View Post
The Vizio M does seem to be the closest competitor but having to use Chromecast would drive me crazy. I keep reading that Vizio will be adding built-in apps later this summer but I haven't seen whether the OS will be Roku, Android, Tizen or something else.

It will be neither.
Vizio is working on an HTML5 interface for casting. So the display will basically be able to cast to itself.
That means updates/fixes to apps will be immediate and not require firmware updates anymore or for you to install/update them yourself.
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post #1047 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 04:32 PM
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So this is an 8-bit panel using FRC?
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post #1048 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 04:33 PM
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@Bob Coxner , the OS coming on the Vizios won't be any of those, it will be a Vizio in-house solution that really isn't all that great. It will basically still be doing "casting", but it'll be casting from itself to itself. And it won't have very many apps either, reportedly. Still not Amazon, and Netflix might not even be there for whatever reason, meaning you'll still have to cast from another device for Netflix. Kinda stupid imo, but it seems like a last-minute decision that they're trying to rush out.

@jakejm79 , I don't have any other BD players to test with. However, I've watched this same BD (Star Wars) on my previous TV from 2011, and also on a Vizio P55-C1, and never saw any ghosting at all on either of those TVs, so I'm fairly certain it is not the Xbox. Especially considering that the ghosting goes away when switching out of Movie mode on the TCL.
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post #1049 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 04:33 PM
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@thrustbucket

Does it really matter?
I bet the majority of 10 bit panels are 8bit + FRC.
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post #1050 of 6351 Old 06-26-2017, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
@thrustbucket

Does it really matter?
I bet the majority of 10 bit panels are 8bit + FRC.
Yeah, from my understanding, it truly doesn't matter, all that matters is the end result of the technique being used. And if you look at the Rtings review of the TCL, "None of the banding normally seen on an 8-bit panel can be noticed", and they gave it a 9.5 rating on color gradient. There are only 7 TVs with a higher rating than that on their site.
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