WSJ Says Millennials Unaware of Antennas and OTA TV - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 03:20 PM
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Millenials might not know what OTA means, but I do not really know the definition of millenials anyway. My son is 12yo and he knows that, just like radio, you can watch TV for free with an antenna. I guess he is a post-millenial?

Ps: I just checked what millenials means: They were born between 1982 and 2002. This is the generation that shoud replace the babyboomers as they retire. Good luck!

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post #32 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 03:32 PM
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I have a Wineguard FL6550A Pizza box style antenna that picks up about 50 channels from Orlando about 45 miles away and I found that the image quality of HD network programming way better than that over cable ( before i canceled it).

Network news and PBS in particular are much better than the compressed video offered by BH - now Charter.

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post #33 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilmar View Post
I have a Wineguard FL6550A Pizza box style antenna that picks up about 50 channels from Orlando about 45 miles away and I found that the image quality of HD network programming way better than that over cable ( before i canceled it).

Network news and PBS in particular are much better than the compressed video offered by BH - now Charter.

Bill
Interesting; Newshour's studio shots delivered OTA are my video benchmark.
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post #34 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 03:45 PM
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OTA is great now compared to 4 channels (at best) growing up. The standard networks plus old science fiction/horror movies via Comet, old westerns, old action movies, 30 minute comedies and all the Star Trek you want via H&I. Even my 20 somethings get a kick out of watching the "classic" OTA TV for a week or two at a time before we return to hundreds of cable channels, Netflix and Amazon. The stations are 35 to 120 miles away and depending on the weather, wind direction and season (spring/summer bad because of the leaves on the trees), we pull in around 35 to 60 channels from several markets. While some of the content is duplicated (3 or 4 ABCs and so on), much of it is unique or time staggered (watch the same show at 9 or switch markets and watch at 10 or 11)...

but it takes a 150 mile range amplified antenna from 1985 to pull them in, and recently the amp died after 20 years (27 year old nephew mowed over the line rather than picking it up after a storm and the powered cable sat exposed to rain for weeks). The new high gain amp lasted three days (common issue per Amazon) and the choices are extremely limited compared to just a few decades ago. I guess I should've stocked up in 1985.

Now at my current house 30ish some miles from DC, I can't even have an outside OTA antenna per the HOA. While some of the neighbors have two or three "dishes" on the roof for satellite, an OTA antenna isn't allowed.

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post #35 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 03:59 PM
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OTA is not for everyone because not everyone can get good reception, regardless of the antenna or height placement (30'AGL). As they say, it's location location location. However, for those who can, as mentioned above, the HD quality is usually much better than cable. We live about 50 miles away (as the crow flies) from our local towers and reception is rock solid and trouble-free 98% of the time, and environmental conditions have no effect on reception.
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post #36 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 04:12 PM
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We have been using a channel master 4228 for over 15 years, 4 different houses, and ranging 45-55 miles from the antenna farm in Walnut Grove CA. Have it hooked into Dish network VIP's and use it everyday to record. The last time I ran the antenna check, it brought in 50+ channels. I will never give up my OTA. Neighbor next door cut the cord a few months ago, and got the newer version of the same antenna, and he Loves it.
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post #37 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1106 View Post

Now at my current house 30ish some miles from DC, I can't even have an outside OTA antenna per the HOA. While some of the neighbors have two or three "dishes" on the roof for satellite, an OTA antenna isn't allowed.
I had the same issue but the HOA accepted my Wineguard panel antenna because it looks more like a small dish than a traditional antenna.

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post #38 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 04:48 PM
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I love that the article brings focus to OTA (something that is sorely under utilized) but that title is pure click bait. I feel bad for millennials as it seems that trolling them has become the new national past time. If we're going to make it a national past time to troll an entire generation let's do it to a generation that actually deserves it: baby boomers. Ugh, baby boomers are the literal worst.
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post #39 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

"Millennials" aren't sitting around the living room tv watching free local channels. That's what I'm saying.
Thats because they enjoy watching everything on a 5" screen, my Samsung Active has HDR, why would you need anything else
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post #40 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1106 View Post
Now at my current house 30ish some miles from DC, I can't even have an outside OTA antenna per the HOA. While some of the neighbors have two or three "dishes" on the roof for satellite, an OTA antenna isn't allowed.
HOA CANNOT stop you, read up on FCC rule:
The rule (47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000) has been in effect since October 1996, and it prohibits restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of antennas used to receive video programming. The rule applies to video antennas including direct-to-home satellite dishes that are less than one meter (39.37″) in diameter (or of any size in Alaska), TV antennas, and wireless cable antennas. The rule prohibits most restrictions that: (1) unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use; (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use; or (3) preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal.

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post #41 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 05:23 PM
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Can you get YouTube OTA? That's why they don't care.


By they way, I'm a high school teacher and a millennial myself at the age of 34.

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post #42 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 05:31 PM
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Thats because they enjoy watching everything on a 5" screen, my Samsung Active has HDR, why would you need anything else
Well.... yeah.

The 5yr old gets to play Minecraft like they want to.

The OLED belongs to Dad anyway...
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post #43 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 05:31 PM
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I have no need for OTA because I can get all that it offers and a lot more and higher reliability from my satellite feed.

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post #44 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by walk View Post
sure, 60-70mi across flat ground, but terrain is also a factor.

as far as programming, ok if you're into talk shows, late night etc, there are lots of those. local sports, maybe. but watching movies edited for TV, no thanks, and I can't even remember last series we watched on network TV, maybe "The Voice"... all the rest came from premium cable, or streaming Netflix/etc. that's where most of the quality shows are now. (non-reality, drama shows anyway).

of course that is subjective, yes.
Yes, terrain is a factor, although even with tough terrain, OTA has pretty good range in a lot of situations. Sure, the network programming is very much mass-market, but there isn't a whole lot left on the cable channels these days, a lot of that is gone, and has been replaced with reality TV garbage. The high quality content has moved to Netflix and HBO.

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Now at my current house 30ish some miles from DC, I can't even have an outside OTA antenna per the HOA. While some of the neighbors have two or three "dishes" on the roof for satellite, an OTA antenna isn't allowed.
You are protected by OTARD for up to a 1 meter antenna. The rule was obviously made for satellite dishes, and for satellite installations is better defended, since the satellite association will send cease and desist letters to entities that try to violate OTARD, but it can also be used for point to point wireless or OTA applications. I'm not familiar with what's on what in the DC market, but it looks like the Clearstream 5, the Clearstream 4 MAX, and maybe the DB4e are all protected by OTARD. I would have to actually measure them diagonally to see if those antennas qualify, but they look like they should.

Further, you could also mount some honking huge antenna in your attic. That is really a rotten restriction for an HOA to have, however. In use antennas don't look bad. What drive me nuts is in the low income areas where you have a lot of multi-families, and no one takes the dishes off, so there are 5 or 10 dishes for a 3-family house, many of them totally obsolete, and no one has ever gone and removed the old ones.

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I have no need for OTA because I can get all that it offers and a lot more and higher reliability from my satellite feed.
And a ginormous bill from AT&T to go along with it!
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post #45 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 05:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Well.... yeah.

The 5yr old gets to play Minecraft like they want to.

The OLED belongs to Dad anyway...
A 5 year old would not be a Millenial. In fact, the youngest Millennials are 14 going on 15.
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post #46 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
I love that the article brings focus to OTA (something that is sorely under utilized) but that title is pure click bait. I feel bad for millennials as it seems that trolling them has become the new national past time. If we're going to make it a national past time to troll an entire generation let's do it to a generation that actually deserves it: baby boomers. Ugh, baby boomers are the literal worst.
Coincidentally, seeing your signature reminds me of talking with a 28 year old millennial in our office this week. He was talking about the Hitchhikers movie and how terrible and unfunny it was.

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post #47 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 06:44 PM
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A 5 year old would not be a Millenial. In fact, the youngest Millennials are 14 going on 15.
Lol I'm not sure why I brought up a 5yr old?

Freudian slip or Dyslexia duuuurrrrrr


Anyway, this was an article telling us what we already knew. *slow clap*
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post #48 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 06:45 PM
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And a ginormous bill from AT&T to go along with it!

Agreed! Quality and commercial free costs $. I have enough invested in my HDTV / audio system I don't want to settle for less. OTA and Internet are not viable options for me because of where I live and if they were I would stick with satellite.


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post #49 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 06:50 PM
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I purchased an OTA receiver upgrade card and an inexpensive antenna for my Dish DVR box, primarily because it's limited to 2-tuners for satellite recording but with the OTA card I can record an additional 2 OTA channels at the same time.

However, as I've pretty much written off most TV shows on the major networks, and the cable channels that I record programming on typically repeat the episode a couple hours after the initial airing (so I can avoid scheduling conflicts), I haven't had to use it in a while.

The OTA recordings do look better than the sat recordings, but they also take up massively more space on the DVR, and running out of space is always a challenge.

If I were to cut the cord, which is an idea I'm always tempted by, I might want to get a better antenna to get more OTA channels and more solid reception, but I'd also need to find some sort of DVR that can inegrate with a program guide as I never watch anything live as it airs.
And this is where costs mount up, DVR's are not free, they can come in handy but the up front costs are there. OTT services with cloud dvr's will be edging out physical dvr's faster than we think.

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post #50 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post
Coincidentally, seeing your signature reminds me of talking with a 28 year old millennial in our office this week. He was talking about the Hitchhikers movie and how terrible and unfunny it was.
Even though I don't feel that way myself I probably wouldn't argue with him-- while I wouldn't call it terrible it certainly struggled to capture what makes the books so special. Alan Rickman as Marvin makes it worth a re-watch every few years but as a Douglas Adams fan I look at this movie much the same way as I look at Rattle and Hum as a U2 fan.

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post #51 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 09:35 PM
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have not been able to receive OTA channels(any) for well over a decade. i do not have a powered antenna, or even one installed on the roof, but i've never heard of anybody locally being able to receive OTA channels, so it seems like a bit of a risk to even buy one to try it out.

i do recall in my younger days, visiting people's homes and them having 3 or 4 channels to choose from because they didn't have cable. but in any recent memory of going to cabin's, farms, etc they all seem to have satellite or nothing now

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post #52 of 96 Old 08-03-2017, 10:26 PM
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It's not just millennials - no one seems to know about OTA HDTV. I am solidly Gen X, and I'm almost the only person I know with an antenna. And I live in Los Angeles, which has well-positioned transmitters atop Mt. Wilson that grant line-of-sight to virtually the whole metro area.

In addition to the whole "free" thing, which is nice, there is a side benefit in that OTA has better picture and sound quality than cable/satellite. I have real trouble watching TV at friends' houses, what with all the pixelation, blocking and weird artifacts.

My favorite story is from the period right after the digital transition, when a friend questioned why I was buying an expensive new HDTV. He didn't believe me when I told him that HDTV was being broadcast for free, and argued the point to such a degree that I had to invite him over. He then snooped around to find the cable connection that he was convinced I must have hidden.

I think the NAB should organize an ad campaign to let people know about OTA options.
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post #53 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post
And this is where costs mount up, DVR's are not free, they can come in handy but the up front costs are there. OTT services with cloud dvr's will be edging out physical dvr's faster than we think.
DVR+ (link in my sig, click[SHOW]) retails at $249 and watch for 'sales' just past $144 and last Black Friday, were 2/299.
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Built this home in 1986 and just had an antenna concealed in the attic over the garage.

Then a few years later cablevision knocked on the door "less than $9 a month, starting with free HBO, Cinemax & ShowTime initially (price war with competitor), so we signed up. You know the story from there; up, up and more up on price until it past $66 per month.

No longer enjoyed programming on History, Discovery & several other channels and that Bravo Channel would drive me from the room.

Now have MoHu $50 antenna (indoor flat rectangle) sealed to top of external wall and into a Channel Master Amplify and get perfect reception from 29 channels in SW Florida market.

TV signals travel straight 'line-of-sight' so stations beyond 35 miles or so require elevated antenna placement depending on terrain.

See "TV Fool" link in this post:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hdt...l#post35942818

for my location and put your location into it to see a prediction of reception and antenna required for your use.
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post #54 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 05:38 AM
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I don't live all that far from the antenna farm that serves Philadelphia. But there is a hospital between me and those antennas and whenever a medevac chopper takes off of lands, that creates interference. I also still need a fairly decent antenna, cheap ones don't work, and I don't reception on the bottom floor of the house. So, plenty of issues there.

Those giant antennas in Roxborough: The secret home of Philadelphia broadcasting, on TV and radio
Nice link there Mark. I myself live in West Norriton and I actually just pinged my house the other night and apparently I am about the same height of these towers. I have a 30 ft. pole on the side of my house with an old school antenna on it (pre-coax antenna) that I have been wanting to replace (unless there is an adapter to go from the 2 wire to coax). For now I have an indoor bunny ears antenna in the attic that gets me about 20 channels so I think with a large one on the roof I should be able to get more.

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post #55 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 05:58 AM
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@Smigro , They sell little converters for flat type
"300 OHM > 75 OHM"
Coaxial Cable
which changes the flat 'two-wire' antenna feed into RG-6 (or whatever 75 OHM you're using). No power needed, just has two 'screw' connectors or a short flat type wire and a coax connector at the other end, about two inches long.
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post #56 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 10:29 AM
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I get all of the major networks (CBS,NBC, FOX, ABC) plus about 40 more like PBS in central NJ from my 70+ mile range roof antenna with dual boosters aimed at One World Trade Center. I also use two 4K Roku boxes with my 4K TVs and Comcast/Xfinity Internet (170Mbps).
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post #57 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 11:44 AM
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With ATSC 1.0, integrating an internal antenna in TVs might be a tough call. In some areas, like where I live, ATSC 1.0 reception of the local channels is very spotty because I live in a valley which is highly subject to multipath reception problems. In all honesty, my local analog TV reception was better than ATSC 1.0 reception. I had to resort to both an antenna in my attic and a TV pre-amp that has a less than 1dB noise figure. Anything less than that really did not help.

However, to me, this is the biggest argument for ATSC 3.0. With reception demonstrated while in a moving car that was in a tunnel, it appears that ATSC 3.0 will eliminate the multipath reception problems that ATSC 1.0 exhibits and give the kind of reception that ATSC 1.0, at least IMO, should have had. When ATSC 3.0 hits the airwaves, I would not be surprised to see a bigger resurgence in OTA.

With ATSC 3.0, built-in antennas will likely get great local channel reception, and, depending on the terrain, may also get some distant stations. Use an indoor external antenna, or a roof mounted antenna, and I would not be surprised to hear of even those living in rural areas getting 50+ OTA channels easily.

As I see it, ATSC 1.0 was obsolete before it hit the airwaves. The sooner it is replaced by ATSC 3.0, the better.

My wife and I record quite a bit of OTA using HD HomeRun tuners, a HTPC, and Media Portal. As a cord cutter where we were getting locals on the wire, we were unwilling to go without an OTA time-shifting solution. For the most part, it works well enough, but there are sometimes dropout problems due to the multipath problems for my area.

Then again, I am not a millennial.

I also stream Hulu and Netflix on my HTPC. I don't have a 4K display yet, but when I do, I will be upgrading to a graphics card that supports 4K streaming/UHD Blu-ray content. Right now, I have BR playback.

My HT and the thrill of getting new equipment.

Last edited by wiyosaya; 08-04-2017 at 11:48 AM.
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post #58 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 12:59 PM
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I had not even considered hooking up an antenna to either of the newer "TVs" in the house. I just assumed I was too far out to get any signals these days from an antenna. Would be nice to get local broadcasts again during bad weather if the cable goes out.

This topic does dredge up a lot of memories, of getting four channels, turning a knob on the TV to change channels(which meant getting out of the chair ), messing with an internal antenna endlessly trying to clean up a signal, and all the hacks we tried like coat hangers and tin foil. My grandparents had an outside antenna and with that they could get better reception from Green Bay Wisconsin than anything from Michigan(this was in the Upper Peninsula).

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post #59 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Off_Tempo View Post
I had not even considered hooking up an antenna to either of the newer "TVs" in the house. I just assumed I was too far out to get any signals these days from an antenna. Would be nice to get local broadcasts again during bad weather if the cable goes out.
You can go to TVFool, put in your address and see what stations are available to you. Then post your TVFool report (with your address deleted) to the HDTV Local forum that is closest to you and see what the folks there recommend for an antenna that should work for you. Keep in mind that roof-mounted antennas offer the best reception but some have had luck with attic antennas.
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post #60 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 01:45 PM
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In my experience, Millennials are pretty much unaware of everything!
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