WSJ Says Millennials Unaware of Antennas and OTA TV - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Plenty of old people streaming ALL KINDS of video from the Internet, lol. C'mon now.

I agree with this 100%

I am considered old and I stream all evening long and I love streaming YouTube.

For years I have worked on using an antenna but where I live, I might get a couple channels and even then, the signal is not that strong with crap-y channels.

The best that I can do right now is to have three TVs in the house and get away with only one DVR from the provider and connect two sets with the cable and have the TV's tuner pull out the HD channels. That saves me about $25 a month. Every bit helps.


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post #62 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 04:40 PM
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I've been very lucky in that almost every home I've lived in had good TV antenna reception, because that is not a given. Our family got 4-6 analog channels as a kid, then after the digital HD conversion it was around 24 channels where I live now, then TV stations started adding to their sub channels so it's about 45 channels currently.

A lot of it is unwatchable of course, worthless network TV shows, QVC-style home shopping, shady televangelists. Some Spanish and Asian language channels too, which are of no use to me whatsoever but I think it's great that they're there, since niche OTA stations like that were not possible when I was a kid.

We mostly watch the public TV channels, like wildlife, history, and nature shows because the HD OTA picture quality is quite satisfying. Their subchannels also have great programming, but they typically broadcast those at 720 or lower so you're there for the content, not the picture. The other reason we like OTA is it's easy to record. I should add that we try to keep monthly costs down, so a big reason for OTA is no cable fee, no DVR fee, just an antenna and a HTPC that can record TV shows. We do pay $20/year for the online program schedule subscription for the EyeTV software that lets us one-click record shows. Our only other recurring TV cost is Netflix.

I know I will be annoyed if it gets hard to find a TV with a tuner in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post
Coincidentally, seeing your signature reminds me of talking with a 28 year old millennial in our office this week. He was talking about the Hitchhikers movie and how terrible and unfunny it was.
The movie was not great. What I mean there is…the original BBC radio series is more entertaning than the books and infinitely better than the movie. What made the radio series great was that it was more immersive than any high-tech movie format ever invented. You listen to the actors and the imaginative BBC Radiophonic Workshop sound effects, and your brain builds a picture much wilder and funnier than anything you could 3D-render to the screen. The movie? My view is that it was "limited by its medium." Last time I checked you could get the radio series on iTunes.

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Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
Ps: I just checked what millenials means: They were born between 1982 and 2002.
Anyone know what the name of the generation after that is, so we can get started criticizing them unfairly?
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post #63 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Minimus7 View Post

Anyone know what the name of the generation after that is, so we can get started criticizing them unfairly?
Here is the list_
The lost generation born 1883-1900
The G.I. generation born 1901-1924
The silent generation born 1925-1942
The baby boomers born early to mid 1940s, end 1960-1964
Generation X (Gen X) born early to mid 1960s, end late 1970s to early 1980s
Millenials (Millenial generation or Generation Y) born early to mid 1980s, end mid 1990s to early 2000s
Generation Z (Post-Millenials, iGeneration, Homeland Generation or Plurals) born mid 1990s to mid 2000s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation
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post #64 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
As I see it, ATSC 1.0 was obsolete before it hit the airwaves. The sooner it is replaced by ATSC 3.0, the better...we were unwilling to go without an OTA time-shifting solution.
I had planned to score an OLED this fall. Then in a few years, when ATSC 3.0 arrives, I guess I'll need a converter box like they had for the analog-to-digital transition, or to buy a new TV with a 3.0-capable tuner. Dammit, man, there's no cheap way to keep up!
I have a good location for reception, with 4 PBS stations at 10, 20, 40 and 60 miles. Only the transmitters in town, 10 miles, are LOS. I can pretty much "time-shift" by just changing the channel. I do have a Channel Master DVR+, though.
If you keep your antenna inside, you don't worry about grounding and lightning protection. I have a PVC pipe on a pedestal fan base in the bedroom, with an older flat-reflector DB4 mounted on it. I can leave the antenna pointed into town, and many times the 60-mile channel will still come in off the back of the antenna. I do have to re-aim for a couple of harder-to-get stations..
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post #65 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 07:20 PM
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Just a quick off the cuff comment

HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH!


Those same people who don't know about OTA broadcasting are probably the same ones (like my niece, who is now 20 years old) who grew up without learning how to tell time on an analog clock!!!
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post #66 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by zeuspaul View Post
Agreed! Quality and commercial free costs $. I have enough invested in my HDTV / audio system I don't want to settle for less. OTA and Internet are not viable options for me because of where I live and if they were I would stick with satellite.

My water bill is higher than my satellite bill
True, DirecTV provides the best PQ and the most HD channels nationally. You must really be out in the sticks! If I had poor internet connectivity, I probably would do DirecTV too, and get at least HBO and other recordable shows through DirecTV, instead of streaming like I do now. And what they heck are you doing with water? That's insane. Granted, I live in Connecticut, where we have a virtually limitless supply of water, but when I lived in a house, our water bill was $150 every three months with 4 adults living in the house. Maybe you guys get charged more per unit since you have such a constrained supply out there? Is that with everything set up with low-flow faucets and showerheads, front-loading washer, etc? How many people are in your household?

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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
I think the NAB should organize an ad campaign to let people know about OTA options.
They have a disincentive to do so, as the stations get paid retransmission fees from cable and DirecTV. At some point, they may want to though, as they will just lose viewers entirely who cut the cord and don't have OTA set up.

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Originally Posted by jogiba View Post
I get all of the major networks (CBS,NBC, FOX, ABC) plus about 40 more like PBS in central NJ from my 70+ mile range roof antenna with dual boosters aimed at One World Trade Center.
I believe some/all of the channels are still on the ESB. Fantastic quality in NYC though, as they do a limited number of subchannels. I watched one of the games last season on FOX at a friend's apartment (Fairfield County so WNYW-DT), and it was stunning compared to the more compressed channels in Hartford-New Haven.
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post #67 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
True, DirecTV provides the best PQ and the most HD channels nationally. You must really be out in the sticks! If I had poor internet connectivity, I probably would do DirecTV too, and get at least HBO and other recordable shows through DirecTV, instead of streaming like I do now. And what they heck are you doing with water? That's insane. Granted, I live in Connecticut, where we have a virtually limitless supply of water, but when I lived in a house, our water bill was $150 every three months with 4 adults living in the house. Maybe you guys get charged more per unit since you have such a constrained supply out there? Is that with everything set up with low-flow faucets and showerheads, front-loading washer, etc? How many people are in your household?


Just the wife and I. We save warm up shower water in a bucket. Everything is on drip irrigation. Five avocado, 25 citrus, 40 apples, 2 small frog ponds and a some landscaping on 12 acres (most unused). Water bill is $300 per month in the summer. $200 per month yearly average. About $.007 per gallon.


We are surrounded by mountains so OTA is very limited. Not too far out but average lot size is about 2 acres so there is not a lot of incentive for the providers to give us fast Internet service.


I grew up with OTA and then cable. DirecTV has been awesome compared to what I used to have. If I were trying to save money surely I would try something different.

Spoiler!
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post #68 of 96 Old 08-04-2017, 11:02 PM
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An antenna built into a TV will rarely be worthwhile. The frequencies cell phones work are are far higher than the highest UHF OTA station. In general, the higher the frequency the smaller the antenna for equivalent reception. In addition, cell phone frequencies are contained within fairly tight upper and lower limits for each band. OTA TV begins at 54 MHz and continue to 88 MHz (VHF Low), then jumps to 174-216 MHz (VHF High), then takes another huge jump to 470-806 MHz. The antenna size to cover the full range cannot fit within even the largest flat panel set. And of course, if the antenna is contained within the TV shell, there's no way to orient the antenna to the signal source.

The only circumstance that an internal TV antenna would be remotely successful would be where the signals are so strong that simple rabbit ears would suffice. At my home, I have actually used a paper clip as an antenna for some channels. I'm between 22 and 25 miles from most OTA broadcast antennas in Seattle, but I'm also on a hill at about 400' elevation above terrain. I can see a few of the antennas at night if I look at just the right place. However, that is still insufficient for reliable OTA reception, so I have a particularly large Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna hanging in my garage rafters. Because of covenants, I can't install it outdoors. But with it I get virtually all Seattle-Tacoma stations (46 with the sub-channels). I can also get on occasion a station with their antenna on an island near the Canadian border. It's about 85 miles, and it doesn't always work.

But I also use an indoor antenna hooked to my HTPC that I use for OTA recording. It doesn't work as well as the big gun in the garage, but I didn't want to add a line splitter to feed it and drop my signal strength on the TV. But I get almost the same channels as the big one does. Just a couple that don't show, and I do get more loss of signal with it. I may have to break down and split the line to get a better signal to the HTPC.

All this rambling is just to say that an antenna built into the TV itself, like a cell phone, would never be practical.

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post #69 of 96 Old 08-05-2017, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeuspaul View Post
Just the wife and I. We save warm up shower water in a bucket. Everything is on drip irrigation. Five avocado, 25 citrus, 40 apples, 2 small frog ponds and a some landscaping on 12 acres (most unused). Water bill is $300 per month in the summer. $200 per month yearly average. About $.007 per gallon.
WOW. I don't know what our rates are here, since they are cheap enough that no one cares. I just Googled Connecticut Water, and they claim about 1 cent per gallon, but even that seems high to me. The company I used to have is charging 0.566 cents per gallon, so $0.00566, or not that much cheaper than what you're paying.

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We are surrounded by mountains so OTA is very limited. Not too far out but average lot size is about 2 acres so there is not a lot of incentive for the providers to give us fast Internet service.
What do you have for internet now? A lot depends on franchise agreements. Here in CT, we have 100% cable coverage at least on the road, due to the way the franchise agreements were set up, even on giant lots, but they were set up back in 1978-ish for TV, not really anticipating broadband, it just worked out for broadband access. One guy in rural NE CT on DSLR had to pay for a plant extension, but it was from existing plant on the road to his house, which was on a 700' driveway or something like that.

Quote:
I grew up with OTA and then cable. DirecTV has been awesome compared to what I used to have. If I were trying to save money surely I would try something different.
DirecTV is pretty much the gold standard for pay TV now, but they are also the gold standard for outrageous prices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atc98092 View Post
But I get almost the same channels as the big one does. Just a couple that don't show, and I do get more loss of signal with it. I may have to break down and split the line to get a better signal to the HTPC.
Pre-amp or distribution amp to overcome the loss?
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post #70 of 96 Old 08-05-2017, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
WOW. I don't know what our rates are here, since they are cheap enough that no one cares. I just Googled Connecticut Water, and they claim about 1 cent per gallon, but even that seems high to me. The company I used to have is charging 0.566 cents per gallon, so $0.00566, or not that much cheaper than what you're paying.



What do you have for internet now? A lot depends on franchise agreements. Here in CT, we have 100% cable coverage at least on the road, due to the way the franchise agreements were set up, even on giant lots, but they were set up back in 1978-ish for TV, not really anticipating broadband, it just worked out for broadband access. One guy in rural NE CT on DSLR had to pay for a plant extension, but it was from existing plant on the road to his house, which was on a 700' driveway or something like that.



DirecTV is pretty much the gold standard for pay TV now, but they are also the gold standard for outrageous prices.



Pre-amp or distribution amp to overcome the loss?
OTA for many years now,In the Midwest and get all of the locals channels and the 'inbetween' channels that play all the old reruns.The main channels are in HD and great quality.Watch them mostly for weather ,traffic and news.We pay for Charter internet.We have Netflix,Amazon,Hulu[dont ever use it tho] and Youtube Red/Google Play..tons of Dvd's and Bluray and now some 4k.If you cant find something to watch here then you really do not want to watch TV.As more of our friends are cord cutting they say I am a pioneer because I was telling everyone to do this a long time ago.It really boiled down to me getting tired of paying huge sums of money for something that I couldnt find anything to watch.Back then If I could have gotten a fair price for just local channels and some discovery,speed channel etc i would still have cable TV.Plus all of those sneaky rate increase they ALWAYS did just tweaked me the wrong way!

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post #71 of 96 Old 08-05-2017, 10:06 AM
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We are very fortunate where we live because we have a direct LOS, about 50 miles away, to our towers so we've always had OTA. We get 50 or 60 stations, most of which is crap but all of the major networks and a few of their sub-stations (MeTV, etc) all come in crystal clear. In fact, our pq is quite often much better than the neighbor's Comcrap cable. Weather doesn't affect our reception either. What we don't get via OTA we'll stream, either via an AppleTV 4 or the laptop via AirPlay. My daughter has DirecTV Now so when she visits, we use that, or HBO Go, to watch whatever. That's enough tv for us. Internet for us is a sustained 20Mbps DSL line which is rock solid. The ISP also took over the old AT&T copper line so we still have our landline as well. All for $55 per month, including taxes. However, we are planning on moving to another state in a year or two so my guess that is all going to change for the worse
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post #72 of 96 Old 08-05-2017, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
The problem with OTA, the digital signal is not as strong as the old analog signal. I live about 10 miles from all the local towers, and only on "good" days can I pick them up with an indoor antenna. Wind seems to be the biggest factor on whether or not I get a good signal. On windy days, I'm lucky to pull in 2 of the 5 locals and their sub channels. I'm not about to go up on my roof to install an antenna, or run cabling from my attic, through the walls to the basement cable junction box.
Where I live when siting on my roof I have line of sight to both of the OTA sites. Using an omni directional exterior antenna my TVs consistently get signals in the +89 levels. Too really piss me off my new DISH hopper3 eliminated a coaxial in put for OTA and want me to buy a $50.00 attachment that converts the coaxial to usb. I'm considering building one myself, has anyone else done that?
The OTA signal is consistently better than the dish signal.
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Originally Posted by stickmant View Post
I had planned to score an OLED this fall. Then in a few years, when ATSC 3.0 arrives, I guess I'll need a converter box like they had for the analog-to-digital transition, or to buy a new TV with a 3.0-capable tuner. Dammit, man, there's no cheap way to keep up!
I have a good location for reception, with 4 PBS stations at 10, 20, 40 and 60 miles. Only the transmitters in town, 10 miles, are LOS. I can pretty much "time-shift" by just changing the channel. I do have a Channel Master DVR+, though.
If you keep your antenna inside, you don't worry about grounding and lightning protection. I have a PVC pipe on a pedestal fan base in the bedroom, with an older flat-reflector DB4 mounted on it. I can leave the antenna pointed into town, and many times the 60-mile channel will still come in off the back of the antenna. I do have to re-aim for a couple of harder-to-get stations..
Yep, TVFool is a super tool.
I'm still holding on to my plasmas until all the HDR stuff is sorted out (though I did pick up the $600 TCL 55P607 to try out and sold my Kuro Elite 9.5G PRO-101FD because I received such a great offer on it). ATSC 3.0 should provide better reception and include HLG HDR so the TV and pre-amp/processor I upgrade to must have those features (and include at least HDMI v2.1 for maximum compatibility). As long as I can tune most of the locals most of the time then I don't mind using OTA as my primary TV option and supplement it with streaming (Amazon Prime and Netflix both have a great selection for my family). Also, external tuners and DVRs typically have tuners with improved reception - my current TiVo Roamio has better reception than my Panny ST60, Sammy F8500 and even the new TCL 55P607. I'm hoping by 2020 the situation will be much clearer.

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post #74 of 96 Old 08-05-2017, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by newbe2 View Post
Where I live when siting on my roof I have line of sight to both of the OTA sites. Using an omni directional exterior antenna my TVs consistently get signals in the +89 levels. Too really piss me off my new DISH hopper3 eliminated a coaxial in put for OTA and want me to buy a $50.00 attachment that converts the coaxial to usb. I'm considering building one myself, has anyone else done that?
The OTA signal is consistently better than the dish signal.
Be glad that they allow you to use OTA. It makes absolutely no sense to put in an OTA tuner in a box where 98% of the users aren't going to use it. DirecTV got rid of their OTA option completely on their newest system, so if you don't have LiLs, or want a subchannel or something, you have to use a totally separate DVR.

Build what yourself? An antenna of some sort?
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post #75 of 96 Old 08-05-2017, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
Be glad that they allow you to use OTA. It makes absolutely no sense to put in an OTA tuner in a box where 98% of the users aren't going to use it. DirecTV got rid of their OTA option completely on their newest system, so if you don't have LiLs, or want a subchannel or something, you have to use a totally separate DVR.

Build what yourself? An antenna of some sort?
No BiggAW, I have the antenna what I want to build is the coaxial to USB converter; ON various sites they're between $50.00/80.00.
Why do I want it; last year Dish had a $$$ battle with the local stations and no local stations through dish for 6 weeks; with my OTA connections I had locals to watch.
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post #76 of 96 Old 08-05-2017, 04:01 PM
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No BiggAW, I have the antenna what I want to build is the coaxial to USB converter; ON various sites they're between $50.00/80.00.
Why do I want it; last year Dish had a $$$ battle with the local stations and no local stations through dish for 6 weeks; with my OTA connections I had locals to watch.
That dongle is more than a COAX to USB converter. The ATSC tuner is contained in the dongle and your Hopper needs to have the right drivers installed to enable communications with the tuner. The driver issue is why it took so long for Dish to enable the second tuner in the dual-tuner version of the the dongle.

That Dish tuner is basically a repackaged Hauppauge USB tuner intended for use on HTPCs.
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post #77 of 96 Old 08-05-2017, 06:33 PM
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As a millennial, this makes me cringe.
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post #78 of 96 Old 08-05-2017, 07:45 PM
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No BiggAW, I have the antenna what I want to build is the coaxial to USB converter; ON various sites they're between $50.00/80.00.
Why do I want it; last year Dish had a $$$ battle with the local stations and no local stations through dish for 6 weeks; with my OTA connections I had locals to watch.
You can't just build your own ATSC tuner that somehow tricks the box into thinking it's the same one that DISH sells. That's just insane. I mean, maybe you could, but it would take probably tens of thousands of dollars, a team of engineers, a lot of time, and all for what? Maybe you could find a Hauppauge one that's close enough to what DISH sells, but then what's the point? You're not building anything. I understand why you want it, I think it's great that DISH allows people to use OTA, unlike DirecTV that doesn't. But don't whine about a $50 tuner. That's a great and cost effective upgrade option.
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post #79 of 96 Old 08-05-2017, 07:46 PM
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As a millennial, this makes me cringe.
This will too
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-i...skia-schneider
Why it's no Surprise that Millennials Aren't that Tech-Savvy

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post #80 of 96 Old 08-05-2017, 08:16 PM
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This will too
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-i...skia-schneider
Why it's no Surprise that Millennials Aren't that Tech-Savvy
In my line of work I see plenty of young people who are beyond help, but I also see many people 40+ that have absolutely no idea about anything.

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post #81 of 96 Old 08-05-2017, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ironsurvivor View Post
In my line of work I see plenty of young people who are beyond help, but I also see many people 40+ that have absolutely no idea about anything.

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Can relate Tech cluelessness is multi-generational.
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post #82 of 96 Old 08-05-2017, 11:33 PM
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Moved to farm country outside of Buffalo, NY about 13 years ago. OTA from day 1. Zero dollars a month is an easy bill to pay. Was amazed with the beautiful HD picture when the stations changed over to digital. Today I have 3 antennas in the attic and receive over 40 channels (includes subs). Use 3 HDHomerun dual tuners. An i5 ZBOX Windows 7 computer running Windows Media Center works flawlessly as the DVR. Recently picked up an LG OLED TV that is absolutely stunning and look forward to the day 4K is OTA.

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OTA with free HD is the only way I watch TV

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post #83 of 96 Old 08-06-2017, 06:42 AM
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It's not just millennials, the general public doesn't know. I have friends of all ages that are astonished that there is free tv. I blame the early tvs for not having tuners. The cable industry didn't help either...

The new tuners are so much better, I can get a good signal with ridiculously small antennas.
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post #84 of 96 Old 08-06-2017, 12:37 PM
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Curb the cord on my cable 2 weeks ago because YouTube TV became available in my area. Had previously tried sling.

Well, YouTube TV trumps them all. For $35, I get all my local channels, cbs, AMC, ESPN 1 and 2 and ESPN news, Fox sports 1 and 2 and regional sports network big 10 network, sec network. I can watch 3 simultaneous streams on my phone, tablet, computer, or my TV using a chrome cast. And unlimited dvr space.

How's the quality? Amazing for what it is. My Comcast cable was very soft and even blurry, with very soft edges. YouTube TV brings better sharpness and focus and better depth too, similar to Netflix. I run my chromecast through my oppo 203 and the picture is even better. (did this with my Comcast too but with lesser results). It also beats Sling TV in picture quality too. I had them side by side before canceling sling. It was again sharper and more stable.

I bought an antenna off Amazon I'm going to hook up and see how it compares to my oppo/YouTube TV Combo. The only real advantage it might have is not having a slight delay.

If your on the fence about YouTube TV, DO It!! You get your 1st month for free.
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post #85 of 96 Old 08-07-2017, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by steve1106 View Post
The new high gain amp lasted three days (common issue per Amazon) and the choices are extremely limited compared to just a few decades ago. I guess I should've stocked up in 1985.

Now at my current house 30ish some miles from DC, I can't even have an outside OTA antenna per the HOA. While some of the neighbors have two or three "dishes" on the roof for satellite, an OTA antenna isn't allowed.
Try this amp - http://kitztech.com/KT200.html probably more expensive than the Amazon, but far better quality in all aspects. Most amps on the market are junk compared to this. I have been using one for about three years now, and I live in a very difficult reception area for local stations. Without this - even with a small directional Winegard in my attic - local reception would be a lot worse for me if viable at all.

As to the HOA prohibiting your antenna (as others have said in the thread) they cannot do this. However, it might be difficult to get them to back off on the ban. Perhaps notifying the FCC that they are banning OTA antennas might be in order?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregoryperkins View Post
It's not just millennials, the general public doesn't know. I have friends of all ages that are astonished that there is free tv. I blame the early tvs for not having tuners. The cable industry didn't help either...

The new tuners are so much better, I can get a good signal with ridiculously small antennas.
It was in cable's best interests to promulgate the impression that OTA no longer exists. A co-worker of mine called his cable provider last year and threatened to go to OTA as part of a price bargaining tactic, and the cable rep told him that OTA was being discontinued by the government - IIRC. No need for a conspiracy theory with cable reps attempting to promulgate something like that which is total bunk.

AVS Forum ought to take advantage of this and seek advertising from Winegard, Channel Master, Antenna's Direct and others.

I read the article, and it states that OTA antenna sales are expected to increase by 7% this year. That is a pretty good rate of return. The article also states that 29% of Americans do not know OTA still exists.

As I mentioned before, ATSC 3.0 will make a significant difference - anyone using OTA should write their representatives and advocate for its quicker implementation.

My HT and the thrill of getting new equipment.
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post #86 of 96 Old 08-07-2017, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Here's how it works:

Old people = "cut the cord!"

Young people/"Millennials" = YouTube


They don't know or care about your free antenna. They have Netflix and Hulu, yo.
My 11/13/15 year old have no watching habits on network tv, well except agents of shield.
By the math, only my 15 year old is a "Millennial".

My latest 2 yr contract with Comcast ends Sept-25-2017, in prep for that I've gotten Netflix and will downgrade to internet only, and add back OTA to my usage.
I'm so used to cable TV but the cost @ $160/month for cable + internet (1 DVR box, 2 tuner boxes) just can use that $ elsewhere.
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post #87 of 96 Old 08-07-2017, 10:54 AM
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I know CBS, FOX and PBS allow streaming of their shows, I am not sure about NBC or ABC.
The streaming experience is so drastically inferior I don't even know how you can seriously suggest it as an alternative. You get forced and repetitive commercials that you can't skip. The audio is 2 channel only. The picture quality is lacking due to a lack of bitrate and other technical snafus. Like crushing blacks or glowing them due to level mismatches. I can record the OTA bitstream bit for bit with my computer server from multiple HD Homerun boxes, edit out the commercials in a few minutes, and watch the result with good picture quality and 5.1 audio and I'm not driving up the amount of data I'm using from my internet provider.

Anything on a broadcast network that I watch is recorded OTA. I still have cable for shows that aren't OTA, but the picture quality from OTA is better than the cable system's version of the same channels.
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post #88 of 96 Old 08-07-2017, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
My 11/13/15 year old have no watching habits on network tv, well except agents of shield.
By the math, only my 15 year old is a "Millennial".

Would you not consider your 11yr old and 13yr old "young people"?

But thanks for making my point.
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post #89 of 96 Old 08-07-2017, 01:26 PM
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I'm still holding on to my plasmas until all the HDR stuff is sorted out...ATSC 3.0 should provide better reception...As long as I can tune most of the locals most of the time then I don't mind using OTA as my primary TV option and supplement it with streaming (Amazon Prime and Netflix both have a great selection for my family). Also, external tuners and DVRs typically have tuners with improved reception - my current TiVo Roamio has better reception than my Panny ST60, Sammy F8500 and even the new TCL 55P607. I'm hoping by 2020 the situation will be much clearer.
Well, I caved, bigger than chit. Folded like a cheap lawn chair, I did. I've had the old Panny plasma for nigh unto 9 years, but recently my nephew moved back to town..with his 2015 LG OLED. He's got it down in 'the cave,' with a Panny plasma, same size, about the same age as mine set up next to it. Seeing them side by side was my demise..and his LG is just 1080.
So I'm in town the other day, and figure I'll stop by the TV shop..a guy can dream, can't he? Well, look here, they've still got a couple 2016 B6Ps left! Got that bad dog home, set it up, and that's when it got dangerous. Seeing it upscale the 1080 OTA signal, my shoes and socks were blown off, then my jaw dropped to the floor and smashed my toes.
So I watched some golf over the weekend, Women's British Open and PGATour. PGATour, when the camera was shooting down the fairway from behind a player, I noticed that there were a few circular areas of tree leaves, further away down the fairway, that were blurry. The center, close up portion where the player was, was always sharp. I wondered if I was seeing an upscaling issue, but I did see what looked like a smear, moving with the camera, at one point. But you would think the cameraman would be on top of it, or that the booth would alert him if they saw something. I'll have to look at a variety of content (other channels, DVR+ etc.) to see if it was an issue only on that particular telecast. I guess I'll have to dive into the thread on that panel. Shouldn't take long, it's only got 21,000 replies.
But as you said, when they go to ATSC 3, we can always get a new, compatible external tuner or DVR. I'm really looking forward to having fewer multipath issues, and maybe usable signals from further away. Not to mention the other upgrades..

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post #90 of 96 Old 08-07-2017, 05:21 PM
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Arrow OLED Envy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickmant View Post
Well, I caved, bigger than chit. Folded like a cheap lawn chair, I did. I've had the old Panny plasma for nigh unto 9 years, but recently my nephew moved back to town..with his 2015 LG OLED. He's got it down in 'the cave,' with a Panny plasma, same size, about the same age as mine set up next to it. Seeing them side by side was my demise..and his LG is just 1080.
So I'm in town the other day, and figure I'll stop by the TV shop..a guy can dream, can't he? Well, look here, they've still got a couple 2016 B6Ps left! Got that bad dog home, set it up, and that's when it got dangerous. Seeing it upscale the 1080 OTA signal, my shoes and socks were blown off, then my jaw dropped to the floor and smashed my toes.
So I watched some golf over the weekend, Women's British Open and PGATour. PGATour, when the camera was shooting down the fairway from behind a player, I noticed that there were a few circular areas of tree leaves, further away down the fairway, that were blurry. The center, close up portion where the player was, was always sharp. I wondered if I was seeing an upscaling issue, but I did see what looked like a smear, moving with the camera, at one point. But you would think the cameraman would be on top of it, or that the booth would alert him if they saw something. I'll have to look at a variety of content (other channels, DVR+ etc.) to see if it was an issue only on that particular telecast. I guess I'll have to dive into the thread on that panel. Shouldn't take long, it's only got 21,000 replies.
But as you said, when they go to ATSC 3, we can always get a new, compatible external tuner or DVR. I'm really looking forward to having fewer multipath issues, and maybe usable signals from further away. Not to mention the other upgrades..
I don't blame you for caving. Before I sold my 50" Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-101FD I had a friend come over with his LG OLED just for grins. Mind you this Kuro was calibrated by the great D-Nice and he tweaked something in the service menu for even deeper blacks - it was clearly much blacker than the Samsung 51" F8500 and even darker than the Panasonic 60" ST60 (and blacker than the VT60 and ZT60 I had in the home for a time). I thought that even the OLED would just match the Kuro and that's it. But next to the OLED the Pioneer finally looked mortal. This was the last generation of Pioneer Kuro Elite (Gen 9.5) that had been calibrated and tweaked by D-Nice and the LG OLED made it look a tad bit gray! So, yeah I don't blame you for upgrading - I admit I too have OLED envy. Once ATSC 3.0, HDR and HDMI 2.1 are all settled it will be time for me to upgrade from my old plasmas (maybe 2020 but I'm a patient man and I can wait for good things). Hell, I still have a 34" Sony Super Fine Pitch HD CRT hanging around that still looks great (and sounds even better)! The damn thing just won't die but it's great for those old 8-bit and 16-bit games from my youth. I hope to say in a few (or more) years that watching ATSC 3.0 looks great on my OLED and the HLG HDR implementation is well-done!.
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