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post #1 of 76 Old 10-27-2017, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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HDR Format War: Dolby Vision versus HDR10+

Would it be best to delay buying a new tv until after there is a clear winner, HDR10+ or Dolby Vision? Or until there are models available that support both formats?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#663d025914da
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post #2 of 76 Old 10-27-2017, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pasva007 View Post
Would it be best to delay buying a new tv until after there is a clear winner, HDR10+ or Dolby Vision? Or until there are models available that support both formats?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#663d025914da
How many years are you prepared to wait?
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post #3 of 76 Old 10-27-2017, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pasva007 View Post
Would it be best to delay buying a new tv until after there is a clear winner, HDR10+ or Dolby Vision? Or until there are models available that support both formats?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#663d025914da
Lg TV's already support both. Oh and the third hdr.. HLG which is broadcast tv HDR.


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post #4 of 76 Old 10-27-2017, 05:04 PM
 
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Lg TV's already support both.
No, they don't.
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post #5 of 76 Old 10-27-2017, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Lineproduct View Post
No, they don't.
Yes they do. I have an LG OLED 55C6P and an LG 55UH8500 and both of them support all three formats.

Do some research and you will see
HDR, DOLBY VISION & HLG are all supported on B6, C6, B7 & C7 models

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post #6 of 76 Old 10-27-2017, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Lineproduct View Post
No, they don't.
Here is a screenshot from google

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This goes for 2017 models too

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post #7 of 76 Old 10-27-2017, 05:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jrocker23 View Post
Yes they do. I have an LG OLED 55C6P and an LG 55UH8500 and both of them support all three formats.

Do some research and you will see
HDR, DOLBY VISION & HLG are all supported on B6, C6, B7 & C7 models

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The OP is talking about Dolby Vision and HDR10+, and you said LG supports both. That's false.
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post #8 of 76 Old 10-27-2017, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Lineproduct View Post
The OP is talking about Dolby Vision and HDR10+, and you said LG supports both. That's false.
Ok got ya, I'm not worried either way.



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post #9 of 76 Old 10-27-2017, 10:13 PM
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Will Samsung and Panasonic succumb to the Dark Side

Quote:
Originally Posted by pasva007 View Post
Would it be best to delay buying a new tv until after there is a clear winner, HDR10+ or Dolby Vision? Or until there are models available that support both formats?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-high-dynamic-range-hdr-wide-color-gamut-wcg/2916610-will-samsung-panasonic-succumb-dark-side.html

Looks like you should post as “Undecided” in this thread.

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post #10 of 76 Old 10-27-2017, 11:36 PM
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Dolby has done their homework(Dolby Atmos anyone) and studied for the test. Both will co-exist but after a few well mastered DV disc and or content (disc for me) more and more titles will come as the buzz word DV is better sets in well! the rest will be history.

And this news can't hurthttps://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300537107.html
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post #11 of 76 Old 10-29-2017, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
Dolby has done their homework(Dolby Atmos anyone) and studied for the test. Both will co-exist but after a few well mastered DV disc and or content (disc for me) more and more titles will come as the buzz word DV is better sets in well! the rest will be history.

And this news can't hurthttps://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300537107.html
Technical superiority does not guarantee market success. (Betamax.)

I don't own DV, but I'd like to. Reportedly, the difference between DV and HDR10 is fairly small; presumably, HDR10+ will narrow it further. However, unless HDR10+ comes to market pretty soon, I'd guess that it won't take off.
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post #12 of 76 Old 10-29-2017, 02:24 PM
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No wars. Dolby wins by default because of name and recognition alone.
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post #13 of 76 Old 10-29-2017, 02:39 PM
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No wars. Dolby wins by default because of name and recognition alone.
Sorry for the off-topic...

Being a KoRn fan, you should change your username to KoЯn.

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post #14 of 76 Old 10-29-2017, 05:02 PM
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There seems to be quite a few young people here who were not around for previous wars.
Don't know how long a shake out period will be required for this to settle.
Sony Beta and VHS took a couple of years with product in both formats. Finally Ma and Pa picked the decidedly poorer technology VHS because more stuff was on VHS because more people bought VHS players because it was a less expensive player and more stuff was on VHS and the vicious circle finally swamped Sony.
Then Sony was so mad about BETA's demise when HD rolled around they went nuts with the propaganda, never mind HDDVD could be pressed on current DVD machinery with minimal additional cost and would not require completely new and different machinery. I don't remember there being any substantially better picture quality in HDDVD vs BR, but I do remember the expensive and hard to produce multilayer disks.
So today is more of the same without of course a product for the masses. Who in their right mind, other than AVSers would layout that kind of money for disks in either format and buy a new player on top of that.

Wouldn't surprise me to see them both go the way of 3D or curved screens.
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Last edited by lewlew; 10-29-2017 at 05:05 PM.
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post #15 of 76 Old 10-30-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by lewlew View Post
There seems to be quite a few young people here who were not around for previous wars.
Don't know how long a shake out period will be required for this to settle.
Sony Beta and VHS took a couple of years with product in both formats. Finally Ma and Pa picked the decidedly poorer technology VHS because more stuff was on VHS because more people bought VHS players because it was a less expensive player and more stuff was on VHS and the vicious circle finally swamped Sony.
Then Sony was so mad about BETA's demise when HD rolled around they went nuts with the propaganda, never mind HDDVD could be pressed on current DVD machinery with minimal additional cost and would not require completely new and different machinery. I don't remember there being any substantially better picture quality in HDDVD vs BR, but I do remember the expensive and hard to produce multilayer disks.
So today is more of the same without of course a product for the masses. Who in their right mind, other than AVSers would layout that kind of money for disks in either format and buy a new player on top of that.

Wouldn't surprise me to see them both go the way of 3D or curved screens.
highly doubtful. not only is HDR10 and Dolby Vision showing up on physical media, but in online streaming as well (VUDU, Netflix, Amazon, etc)
HLG will enable us to view HDR/DV content in the home via cable/satellite
plain old 4k isn't that big of a jump over 2k/HD, but HDR10/DV are really what makes the difference

if anything, anything higher than 4k will be niche, 8k+ will never become big in the market because of, not only the need for huge TV sets (probably projectors would be king) in the home but also, unless there is a big breakthrough, cable/satellite won't be able to transmit 8k native content through the bandpipe
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post #16 of 76 Old 10-30-2017, 11:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by KoRn View Post
No wars. Dolby wins by default because of name and recognition alone.
DV has done nothing but cause embarrassment for Dolby, given the numerous issues with the format, and the laughably paltry number of discs containing DV despite not having any competition. Once that competition launches on disc, it's game over for DV.
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post #17 of 76 Old 10-30-2017, 11:46 AM
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Once that competition launches on disc, it's game over for DV.

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post #18 of 76 Old 10-30-2017, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewlew View Post
There seems to be quite a few young people here who were not around for previous wars.
Don't know how long a shake out period will be required for this to settle.
Sony Beta and VHS took a couple of years with product in both formats. Finally Ma and Pa picked the decidedly poorer technology VHS because more stuff was on VHS because more people bought VHS players because it was a less expensive player and more stuff was on VHS and the vicious circle finally swamped Sony.
Then Sony was so mad about BETA's demise when HD rolled around they went nuts with the propaganda, never mind HDDVD could be pressed on current DVD machinery with minimal additional cost and would not require completely new and different machinery. I don't remember there being any substantially better picture quality in HDDVD vs BR, but I do remember the expensive and hard to produce multilayer disks.
So today is more of the same without of course a product for the masses. Who in their right mind, other than AVSers would layout that kind of money for disks in either format and buy a new player on top of that.

Wouldn't surprise me to see them both go the way of 3D or curved screens.
The biggest reason VHS won was because the tapes were bigger. You could record 6 hours of video vs 4 1/2 for betamax. When the tapes cost over $20 in the 1980's, it was a big deal.
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This is more akin to to Dolby Digital vs DTS type of thing than an actual war.....
So unless you really want both for whatever reason then I'd say yea get a TV can support as many things as you can afford,
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post #20 of 76 Old 10-31-2017, 03:41 PM
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The biggest reason VHS won was because the tapes were bigger. You could record 6 hours of video vs 4 1/2 for betamax. When the tapes cost over $20 in the 1980's, it was a big deal.
Yes, plus the fact that picture quality isn't a concern for many people.

I don't recall the percentage of US owners of HD TVs in the early days that only had SD content from their cable providers, and watched that stretched to fill the 16:9 screen. And weren't aware of it.

I wonder what fraction of the population will be aware of the existence of DV and HDR10+, much less care? Enthusiast sites like this one give a distorted view of reality.
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post #21 of 76 Old 10-31-2017, 04:09 PM
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The biggest reason VHS won was because the tapes were bigger. You could record 6 hours of video vs 4 1/2 for betamax. When the tapes cost over $20 in the 1980's, it was a big deal.
Don't know how true it is, but I've read that a major spur to the widespread acceptance of VHS over BetaMax was the porn industry. The story has it that Sony refused to allow porn producers to license BetaMax for product distribution, but there was no such restriction by the VHS camp.
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post #22 of 76 Old 10-31-2017, 04:18 PM
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Considering there is current zero content with HDR10+ and I also have no idea if current Samsung TVs (I have 2016 KS8000 myself) would even support it, I don't think HDR10+ has a shot at all in this war. Seems it's just Samsung ego tripping not wanting to join in on DV.
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post #23 of 76 Old 10-31-2017, 08:42 PM
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(snip)Seems it's just Samsung ego tripping not wanting to join in on DV.
DV requires licensing fees to Dolby Labs. HDR10+ will be an open standard.

I have never read how much Dolby gets for each license.
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DV requires licensing fees to Dolby Labs. HDR10+ will be an open standard.

I have never read how much Dolby gets for each license.
If TCL can sell a 55" unit at $600 with Dolby Vision and FALD I find it had to believe that the licensing fee is really that big of a hurdle. Shoot, Vizio has it on their mid-tier M series for a couple years running.

It really isn't an either or argument. Everything comes down to maximum profitability and the desire for these companies to apply select formats to only their highest end units as to differentiate between models and command a couple extra hundred dollars for each step up their product chain.

Companies like Vizio and TCL that are all about market share can easily apply all formats and do it very affordably.

Just my opinion though
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Considering there is current zero content with HDR10+ and I also have no idea if current Samsung TVs (I have 2016 KS8000 myself) would even support it, I don't think HDR10+ has a shot at all in this war. Seems it's just Samsung ego tripping not wanting to join in on DV.
2016 TVs already support HDR10+.

The format hasn't even launched yet and they've already got Amazon, Fox, and Panasonic on board, with Warner Bros saying they would like to support HDR10+. Then you've got Universal partnering with Samsung on their LED HDR cinema displays and doing a special grading for them, who is well positioned to be the next studio to support the format. This is far greater support than DV had before it launched.
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post #26 of 76 Old 10-31-2017, 11:35 PM
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2016 TVs already support HDR10+.

The format hasn't even launched yet and they've already got Amazon, Fox, and Panasonic on board, with Warner Bros saying they would like to support HDR10+. Then you've got Universal partnering with Samsung on their LED HDR cinema displays and doing a special grading for them, who is well positioned to be the next studio to support the format. This is far greater support than DV had before it launched.
Streaming is nice, but...

I'm waiting for a disk-based HDR10+ ecosystem: UHD disks, UHD BD player, AVR, and TV (with HDR10+ support through its HDMI ports).

I haven't read anything about timing for those. I doubt that the KS series will support HDR10+ through HDMI.
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Don't know how true it is, but I've read that a major spur to the widespread acceptance of VHS over BetaMax was the porn industry. The story has it that Sony refused to allow porn producers to license BetaMax for product distribution, but there was no such restriction by the VHS camp.
Not true. I worked at a video store circa 1985 and we rented lots of BetaMax porn.
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post #28 of 76 Old 11-01-2017, 09:28 AM
 
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Streaming is nice, but...

I'm waiting for a disk-based HDR10+ ecosystem: UHD disks, UHD BD player, AVR, and TV (with HDR10+ support through its HDMI ports).

I haven't read anything about timing for those. I doubt that the KS series will support HDR10+ through HDMI.
The KS series now has HDMI 2.0b ports. Paul Williams of Panasonic (who now also supports HDR10+) and Vincent Teoh have both said that HDMI 2.0b is sufficient for HDR10+ over HDMI. Samsung and Panasonic both demo'd HDR10+ over HDMI at recent events on 2017 HDMI 2.0b TVs.

Additionally, the Samsung M9500/M8500 blu rays players now support HDR10+ through streaming, and they've got HDMI 2.0b ports.
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post #29 of 76 Old 11-01-2017, 04:03 PM
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DV requires licensing fees to Dolby Labs. HDR10+ will be an open standard.

I have never read how much Dolby gets for each license.
"You may hear about one other difference between Dolby Vision and HDR10. Some people will point out that TV manufacturers pay to have Dolby Vision in their displays, while HDR10 is free. While that’s true, the difference isn’t significant.
The royalty cost to add Dolby Vision ranges from less than $3 per TV to lower than $2 per TV."
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dolby...ar-giles-baker

And TCL delivers Dolby Vision for under $600: TCL 55P605 / 55P607, best value TV of 2017 (FALD …).
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-tv/

Also the streaming media player Google Chromecast Ultra, compatible with Dolby Vision / HDR10 / YouTube HDR, is available only at $70, Dolby Vision licensing fee included.


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Would it be best to delay buying a new tv until after there is a clear winner, HDR10+ or Dolby Vision? Or until there are models available that support both formats?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#663d025914da



Why contribute to create an artificial HDR format war? It won’t bring any benefit to consumers!

Facing inherently incompatible formats like Blu-ray vs HD DVD, consumers have to choose a side.

It is not the case with HDR formats.
Consumers can just require Dolby Vision TV makers or HDR10+ TV makers to just add a piece of HDR software in order to be compatible with the other HDR format. This upgraded TV will remain the same: same panel, same electronic parts, same mechanical parts!
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post50302361

For example, the Sony Z9D doesn’t support Dolby Vision at launch.

Quote:
Sony already made the announcement - no Dolby Vision support.
Someone mentioned that Samsung's dynamic metadata HDR10 proposal passed with the competent authorities and perhaps we will see something like a dynamic HDR update on the Z in the future, but this is pure speculation.
Nobody should buy this set expecting a DV upgrade in the future - it simply ain't happening.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post46372345

Then, the Sony Z9D will get Dolby Vision with a free software upgrade.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post54095697


In the same way audio/video receivers (AVR) have universal support for audio formats (Dolby Digital, DTS, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X ...), universal HDR TV is a big plus for consumers: consumers can watch any existing HDR content they want!


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post55037044


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hdr-f...eri-geutskens/

Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!

Last edited by DanBa; 11-01-2017 at 04:30 PM.
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post #30 of 76 Old 11-01-2017, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineproduct View Post
2016 TVs already support HDR10+.

The format hasn't even launched yet and they've already got Amazon, Fox, and Panasonic on board, with Warner Bros saying they would like to support HDR10+. Then you've got Universal partnering with Samsung on their LED HDR cinema displays and doing a special grading for them, who is well positioned to be the next studio to support the format. This is far greater support than DV had before it launched.
Believe me, I would love for HDR10+ to win, that way I won't want to upgrade my TV. Supporting it or not, we have no way of knowing since there are no content to test HDR10+ on our 2016 Samsungs. Just giving us something that shows HDR10+ even works would be a nice step.
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