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post #1 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Disappointing CES

I made this thread to rant about how disappointed I am with ces. I just got done watching the ces press conferences streams on YT of the major manufacturers. And now I'm asking myself was this the crap I had been anticipating since few months.
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post #2 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 09:10 AM
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I can't really chime in with a strong opinion since I haven't seen any of the conferences myself, but I did read of a lot of posts stating that most were disappointing or boring. I think a lot of people were hoping for more announcements about 88"+ plus tv screens and more news on potential MicroLED technology. For my budget however I was pleased to see TCL's 6-series 65" offering and Sony's 900F series (yay DV!) coming out in the Spring. But I suspect my expectations are on a much smaller scale than most lol.
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post #3 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
I made this thread to rant about how disappointed I am with ces. I just got done watching the ces press conferences streams on YT of the major manufacturers. And now I'm asking myself was this the crap I had been anticipating since few months.
Your thoughts
I think you need to go to CES in person and experience it instead of sitting behind a keyboard and watching a few livestreams before you can proclaim it's a disappointment.

Last edited by rboster; 01-09-2018 at 09:54 AM. Reason: edited out comments to incite
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post #4 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
I think you need to go to CES in person and experience it instead of sitting behind a keyboard in your parents basement and watching a few livestreams before you can proclaim it's a disappointment.
And I don't think seeing the stuff on a crowded showfloor is really exciting unless there's awesome stuff. The only awesome stuff seems to be prototypes, the real things announced for release in 2018 by the various manufacturers are frankly a disappointment.
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post #5 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 09:55 AM
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From the TV side it's definitely a disappointment. Samsung appears to have left their entire TV lineup at home and sony brought 2 tvs. The prototypes are nice but those are fantasy toys. People wanna see the improvements for NOW along with the prototypes.
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post #6 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 10:00 AM
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this year's line of TV's are in no man's land, as the true incremental leap will be made with HDMI 2.1 in the 2019 models. the spec was finalized too late in 2017 to get into the 2018 models

2019 should be the year of FALD, OLED, 8k, glasses-less 3D, impressive nit levels, to name a few
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post #7 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Samsung kept talking about stuff like refrigerators for a long time at their keynote. I would've liked if they had spent that time enlisting their qled LCD models of 2018 and more information about micro led technology, about which they spent just a couple of minutes talking about.
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post #8 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
From the TV side it's definitely a disappointment. Samsung appears to have left their entire TV lineup at home and sony brought 2 tvs. The prototypes are nice but those are fantasy toys. People wanna see the improvements for NOW along with the prototypes.
I thought the Blu ray players in addition to the tv's were disappointing . Sony's new Blu ray player looked old school and cheaply built, Dolby vision support would only be by firmware with no specific date, they have already kept TV owners waiting for the DV update. Panasonics Blu ray players looked quite better but again out of the box they don't have DV compatibility, only hdr 10+. I think this whole waiting for a firmware update for Dolby vision in 2018 is stupid, oppo has had it for a year.
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post #9 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
Samsung kept talking about stuff like refrigerators for a long time at their keynote. I would've liked if they had spent that time enlisting their qled LCD models of 2018 and more information about micro led technology, about which they spent just a couple of minutes talking about.

They've got some demo rooms with a breakdown of how micro led works. CNET and Katszmeir posted some pix a little whole ago.
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post #10 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 10:30 AM
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Not sure how you can be disappointed until you see full specs released for all tvs. Seems like most you hear about is just spot specs, like what about the rest of the Sony lineup outside of the 900F? Great it's getting DV, but what about the 850F, 930F, 940F and a Z9F potentially? Also, is the 900F adding more zones? Currently 45 correct? Also how about the brightness increase for all models? 2017 models made some significant leaps over 2016 models.
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post #11 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
They've got some demo rooms with a breakdown of how micro led works. CNET and Katszmeir posted some pix a little whole ago.
Ray, did you have a chance to see "the wall?" Samsung's micro led prototype?
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post #12 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 10:48 AM
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Ray, did you have a chance to see "the wall?" Samsung's micro led prototype?
Only videos, I'm not actually there.
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post #13 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 11:02 AM
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Last year all the TVs were incremental upgrades, and we were told this year would see big changes, especially with OLED using a new panel with greater than 1,000 nit peak brightness due to lack of 3D. Everything is just minor upgrades. Even though full HDMI 2.1 is unnecessary and not possible for this year's models, there's no mention of eARC or VRR, both of which can be implemented on HDMI 2.0a chipsets.
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post #14 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 11:38 AM
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LG's new TVs support LUTs and automatic calibration, which, at least in consumer electronics, is pretty revolutionary.

Also, oftentimes the best and coolest stuff is away from the main stage and journalists don't discover it until days into CES. If you've ever been to CES or a similar trade show, you'll know how insanely big these things are and you can't see everything in a single day.
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post #15 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 01:19 PM
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Reminds me of car shows

One one hand, Samsung, and Sony showed some really cool future tech which reminds me of going to a car show where they wow you with Vaporware concept car prototypes that never come to market.

On the other hand, unless I am missing something, I would say CES 2018 was a huge disappointment when it comes to new TV products.
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post #16 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 01:24 PM
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I'll blame it on 2.1 Next year is going to be the year to upgrade. They know it...
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post #17 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JakeE View Post
One one hand, Samsung, and Sony showed some really cool future tech which reminds me of going to a car show where they wow you with Vaporware concept car prototypes that never come to market.

On the other hand, unless I am missing something, I would say CES 2018 was a huge disappointment when it comes to new TV products.
Yeah, I have a feeling NAIAS in Detroit next week is also going to disappoint as well. I'd like to see the new Shelby GT500 announced but looks like it might only be a new Bullitt Mustang.

As for CES 2018 on the consumer display front here are my biggest gripes.
-No HDMI 2.1...which would have been ok if everyone was showing their complete lineups but they didn't so hopefully they're making some late changes
-More HDR standards not less...the industry should be working to one agreed upon standard
-Looks like no significant improvements to OLED panels

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post #18 of 63 Old 01-09-2018, 03:46 PM
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Not surprised to be honest.

HDMI 2.1 spec came too late and still doesn't have certification tests till mid this year, this means it's really 2019 before we see stable certified chipsets.

LCD is probably at it's limits technology wise, R&D is being funneled into microled/oled which have better future potential.

LG have been focusing on yield and their new OLED plant, was hoping to see some improvements in OLED but we might even be seeing some hard limits now that only microled will overcome. LG is probably focusing on bring prices down before microled hits.

The star of the show is microled, the future of displays.

8k is a waste of time without hdmi 2.1, so yeah like others have said, hdmi 2.1 is holding things back and we are seeing some maturity/walls hit with current display tech.
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post #19 of 63 Old 01-10-2018, 06:32 AM
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Agree with the sentiment shared by others. HDMI 2.1 and ATSC 3.0 were exceedingly delayed (ATSC 3.0 for pure political reasons--literally... politicians wasting time and failing to approve as they argued about the "fairness" of it because it will potentially require new hardware... IDK... I just don't understand the things people obsess over sometimes... but they're the government... they're here to help... allegedly).

Personally, I'm excited about Micro LED--if for no other reason than it provides competition for OLED (since LG seems to pretty much have a monopoly in that space--and LED, QLED or whatever just wasn't going to match it without a fundamental change--which Micro LED seems to be). I hadn't expected it to be viable until 2020+. But seems 2019 might see the introduction of some Micro LED consumer products. And the fact LG is pushing OLED production/technology (both in terms of size and capability--i.e. 8k--the fact it can potentially do it gives it some life for the future once consumers start demanding 8k--however unnecessary it may be) is nice to see.

But I'd agree the actual 2018 products are relatively disappointing. The consensus last year was that TVs were on the former Intel famed "tick-tock" production cycle. And 2018 was supposed to be the tick (or the tock... whichever... hahaha... you know what I mean). But perhaps for the aforementioned reasons, seems like a near repeat of 2017--minor improvements of existing technology that don't add up to a hell of a lot. Now if they'll get the prices down, that would be big. I thought one of the disappointing elements of the 2017 models were how insanely high their introduction prices were. The rumors going into CES 2017 were that Sony's OLEDs would be competitively priced at about $3k retail. And it turned out to be quite the opposite--they were even more expensive than the competing LG models.

And even Black Friday prices in 2017 were pretty similar to 2016 for year-over-year models (B6 and B7A were both priced about the same for their respective Black Fridays in 2016 and 2017). And 75" LED models from major manufacturers didn't see the great BF prices seen in 2016, imo. The 940E never really got under $3700 or so from what I recall. The prior year version, 940D, was under $3k at BF in 2016. So overall, I thought 2017 was disappointing. So maybe 2018 will see a material shift downward in prices since the TVs themselves really aren't that different from the 2016 models--at least not in a material sense. But some may disagree with that assessment. Just my $0.02.
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post #20 of 63 Old 01-10-2018, 08:29 AM
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If TCL can deliver its 6 series in 65" by April-May, it could be a big game changer compared to last year's model that was limited to 55." Since TCL doesn't do the crazy high markup down to normal prices only for BF, they'll basically be offering performance close to the X900F for half the price over most of the year. With the 55" P being such a big hit last year, it's amazing how I cannot find any coverage from the TCL booth. It's only repetitions of the same announcement press release at every website. The Sony X900F is getting a ton of coverage for now including Dolby Vision this year with showroom floor interviews.
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post #21 of 63 Old 01-10-2018, 10:04 AM
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I stopped going to CES. Went the first 10 years I think it was when I started in the business. Everything there is a prototype and may or may not come out. The knowledge of the products was not as good as expected.

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post #22 of 63 Old 01-10-2018, 10:26 AM
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Prices will probably fall faster this year though.
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post #23 of 63 Old 01-10-2018, 07:21 PM
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I was all set to put myself in the poorhouse this year and throw a lot of money at LG or Sony and Marantz. I wanted a 77" or larger OLED and a new preamp. But as others have said without HDMI 2.1 it would be a foolish purchase. MicroLED was the most exciting new tech - however I don't want a jigsaw TV so if they can make consumer production units without piecemealing it I think they'll steal the show next year. The LG 88" 8K was also very interesting but they need to crank up the nits, completely solve burn in and fix the life expectancy for me to give up a big wad o' cash. I realize to some it may not be that big of investment - but to me it would be a 8-10 year purchase. The black frame insertion on the LG OLED does have me intrigued - not enough to buy a non HDMI 2.1 set but it does have me very anxious to see it in person. The NVidia/HP/AOC monitor shows they are starting to think outside the box but if there was ever a time for them to shove the curved screen and 21:9 format at us - that would have been it but for some reason they went with 16x9.


I would also have liked to have seen some BT 5.0 headsets, a new Logitech remote - e.g. Harmony One 2.0, a new NVidia Shield TV version 3, an NVidia 2080 gaming card, and an Intel 9700k processor with lots of PCIe lanes. I was willing to throw a lot of money I saved up last year at manufacturers but so far CES really just makes me think it will sit in the bank until next year.


I WANT to give my money to companies but they all just seemed to be phoning it in. Maybe they are part of the new generation that thinks they should get praise and awards for just showing up.


(An aside - did anyone notice the new sponser ad in the corner of their screen for Anastasia match.com to find a Czech date? I think if they were smart they'd just call it Czech Mate.)

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post #24 of 63 Old 01-10-2018, 09:55 PM
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Where was the SONY 940F or Z9F??

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post #25 of 63 Old 01-11-2018, 05:01 AM
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Where was the SONY 940F or Z9F??
Right next to the new Sony A1F with hdmi 2.1, x1 ultimate processor and 1000 nit brightness.
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post #26 of 63 Old 01-11-2018, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JakeE View Post
One one hand, Samsung, and Sony showed some really cool future tech which reminds me of going to a car show where they wow you with Vaporware concept car prototypes that never come to market.

On the other hand, unless I am missing something, I would say CES 2018 was a huge disappointment when it comes to new TV products.
Which makes me glad that I sprung for the Sony 75" 900E (and 49" 900E) last July, 2017. With price protection (credit card) - the larger 75" came in at three grand, which I thought was a great price. No DV, but frankly, I'm very happy with HDR10 via Netflix and Amazon Prime.

Google Play movies look stellar on my Sony 900E and upscaled regular Bluray's via my OPPO 103 look fantastic. My biggest disappointment has to do with my 4K/UHD Bluray Player - a Samsung K8500. I began renting UHD/HDR Bluray discs but was very underwhelmed with the PQ and now my Sammy player is a paperweight in my cabinet. So much fake 4K via Bluray that it isn't funny. I stopped buying any Bluray discs years ago and see zero need to change that habit.

HDMI 2.1? Not happening in my theater. In fact, I'm staying with my older Denon x5200 AVR in a 7.1.4 configuration with front wides. I toggle between DTS Neo X (regular cable/news/sports) and DSU/Dolby Atmos for movies.

I've retired my BenQ W1080ST projector with a 100" screen. It just looks so drab and dull compared to the Sony 900E picture. I haven't seen much information from CES 2018 on affordable 4K projectors. That would be the only upgrade that I wound consider but unless there is a separate audio feed, I'm shut out of that market unless I upgrade my AVR - - and I'm in no hurry to do that.

I've been extremely happy with Netflix content - - so much so that I ran a wired line from my upstairs router to my man cave for streaming. I'm amazed at the video quality of Netflix material - even plain HD at 15 or 16 mbps as upscaled by the Sony 900E.

This is just a personal opinion, but I've never been enamored with OLED. Yes, the form factor is nice but the price/performance isn't there - - especially for larger panel sizes. If I were looking at components for a new theater, I'd wait until 2019, if I could. I don't see anything that is really compelling for 2018 versus 2017.
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post #27 of 63 Old 01-11-2018, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthJersey View Post
this year's line of TV's are in no man's land, as the true incremental leap will be made with HDMI 2.1 in the 2019 models. the spec was finalized too late in 2017 to get into the 2018 models

2019 should be the year of FALD, OLED, 8k, glasses-less 3D, impressive nit levels, to name a few
8K? Seriously. 4K has barely taken off.
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post #28 of 63 Old 01-11-2018, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
Samsung kept talking about stuff like refrigerators for a long time at their keynote. I would've liked if they had spent that time enlisting their qled LCD models of 2018 and more information about micro led technology, about which they spent just a couple of minutes talking about.
don't you wanna watch a movie on your refrigerator? lol
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post #29 of 63 Old 01-11-2018, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
Where was the SONY 940F or Z9F??
Well in the event they are not making new units I hope that they run these old one's another year The Z9D was never shown at CES......we will see what happens.
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post #30 of 63 Old 01-11-2018, 09:47 AM
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Well in the event they are not making new units I hope that they run these old one's another year The Z9D was never shown at CES......we will see what happens.
Are you shure. I believe there was a ''over 1000 zones'' prototype shown. The main thing is when they have something special they will show it/spread rumors about it before it is a actual product.
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