Are today's LED, LCD TVs better than yesterday's plasmas? - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 119 Old 01-27-2018, 10:49 AM
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I've been out of the game for a long time but is clouding/panel lottery still an issue with LCD panels? I remember going to plasma specifically because I was so disgusted with the samsung panel lottery game.
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post #92 of 119 Old 01-27-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by altaguy View Post
I've been out of the game for a long time but is clouding/panel lottery still an issue with LCD panels? I remember going to plasma specifically because I was so disgusted with the samsung panel lottery game.
Panel lottery applies to lcd's and oled apparently. Clouding seems to bet an issue with all but the highest end full array local dimming sets. Even then, it's still an issue when viewed of center.

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post #93 of 119 Old 01-27-2018, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
Wow, there's very obvious blooming on the LCD. You wouldn't notice it without the direct comparison with plasma, though.

There is very slight blooming on the LCD (not surprising) but the LCD is "sharper". Look at the words Banks: Gemini Feed on the displays. You can see that the lettering on the LCD is quite a bit sharper than on the Plasma. It is also noticeable on the lighting/starbursts behind the performer.

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post #94 of 119 Old 01-28-2018, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
I'm from the 'I know it when I see it' school. I have yet to see any other set that looks as natural to me as my Samsung F8500 plasma. I've looked at countless top line OLED and LED sets both at stores and at friends but there is always something a bit unnatural about the picture. My F8500 looks perfect to my eyes.
I have a Costco Panasonic Plasma I got years ago and I feel the same way. I have been about to buy a 4K OLED or LED but whenever I look at them in the store I just feel the motion looks so unnatural and weird. The LCD's picture quality looks good from across the store showing pictures of hot air balloons but when you get up close the contrast, detail and tone is deficient. The OLED clearly destroys any LCD in picture quality but has the same problems with motion.

As best I can tell that stuff will never be fixed so my old Costco Panny might be the last TV I ever own. Auf Wiedersehen video content.
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post #95 of 119 Old 01-28-2018, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
Wow, there's very obvious blooming on the LCD. You wouldn't notice it without the direct comparison with plasma, though.
Even that isn't a direct comparison. Red bias on one and the camera adjusted the overall higher as seen by the visible background in the room.

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post #96 of 119 Old 01-28-2018, 11:13 AM
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I read this thread a week to late. Last week I bought a Samsung qled 55 from Costco. It will possibly replace a Panasonic 55gt plasma. I have 90 days to make up my mind.

I think most 1080p content looks pretty good. Older movies like Star wars look mostly good except parts that never looked very good, those look worse. Blacks look great and the motion also looks good. 4k content from Netflix looks great but the motion is not smooth may be the steaming.

I have the Panasonic set up in the other room and will do some more serious comparison to see if a new $1500 set is worth upgrading.
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post #97 of 119 Old 01-28-2018, 11:19 AM
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HLG/HDR/DV...'nuff said.
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post #98 of 119 Old 01-28-2018, 12:08 PM
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Are today's LED, LCD TVs better than yesterday's plasmas?

I just went from a 60” Kuro to 75” Sony 900e. I love the plasma the blacks I find are better (I watch in dark room) but the Sony’s blacks are good enough, maybe 90% there, you can tell the frame around the screen is blacker. I think watching FibeTV, the plasma is better but then it is also a 15” smaller screen. The colours on the plasma are better when watching FibeTV and maybe sometimes a bit better streaming 1080p as well but overall very close.

Overall I prefer the Sony because of the size and with a good signal 1080p streaming or 4K the Sony is fantastic. Especially with HDR the colours are amazing. Unfortunately I find myself watching even more tv now!


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post #99 of 119 Old 01-29-2018, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Yellbean View Post
Here you go. Top is the Sony 940D, bottom is Panasonic 65zt60, and the source is youtube stream.

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Are your TVs calibrated?

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post #100 of 119 Old 01-29-2018, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
Are your TVs calibrated?
I used settings found on AVS and tweaked from there using the Disney WOW bluray.

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post #101 of 119 Old 01-29-2018, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Elemental101 View Post
HLG/HDR/DV...'nuff said.
I agree, I was more comparing 1080p SDR. I did do one comparison with life showing the difference HDR/WCG makes.

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post #102 of 119 Old 01-29-2018, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon SS View Post
I just went from a 60” Kuro to 75” Sony 900e. I love the plasma the blacks I find are better (I watch in dark room) but the Sony’s blacks are good enough, maybe 90% there, you can tell the frame around the screen is blacker. I think watching FibeTV, the plasma is better but then it is also a 15” smaller screen. The colours on the plasma are better when watching FibeTV and maybe sometimes a bit better streaming 1080p as well but overall very close.

Overall I prefer the Sony because of the size and with a good signal 1080p streaming or 4K the Sony is fantastic. Especially with HDR the colours are amazing. Unfortunately I find myself watching even more tv now!


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100% agreement. Size and 4k should be the main reasons for upgrading from one of the last Gen Plasmas.


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post #103 of 119 Old 01-29-2018, 05:49 AM
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OK I was just curious since the colors seem off in the picture comparison I quoted. I do agree now that anyone upgrading from a 60"-65" high-end plasma should be looking at a 75" or bigger set. No reason to buy anything 65".
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post #104 of 119 Old 01-29-2018, 10:44 AM
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^^^^^^^
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post #105 of 119 Old 01-29-2018, 11:17 AM
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My Panasonic TC-P60ST30 Plasma

I've owned this plasma I bought for $1,238 for 6 years now. I'm going to be moving to another home and was wondering if I should buy a wall mount for my plasma (currently on a table) OR get an entirely new type of display. After reading this thread, I'm sticking with my plasma that is still fabulous. It certainly sounds like plasma owners are more than happy to stick with them compared to what else is available. Thanks for all the comments in this thread.
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post #106 of 119 Old 01-29-2018, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dangerousdave View Post
I've owned this plasma I bought for $1,238 for 6 years now. I'm going to be moving to another home and was wondering if I should buy a wall mount for my plasma (currently on a table) OR get an entirely new type of display. After reading this thread, I'm sticking with my plasma that is still fabulous. It certainly sounds like plasma owners are more than happy to stick with them compared to what else is available. Thanks for all the comments in this thread.
Still love our nearly 10 year old 60" Kuro that continues to perform fantastically. However last August we purchased a 75" Sony 940e LCD that is in most all respects a better TV. I can make arguments for the Kuro being better with certain specific source material and certainly wrt to off axis viewing (not an issue for us)...but overall and with most all (particularly high end) sources the new LCD is better. Also consider that the plasma won't display 4K or HDR - which both have value. Additionally - the new LCD - with very thin beveled edge - looks better and though a much larger screen takes up only a bit more space (on the sides). As long as you are happy with the plasma though - there isn't necessarily any reason to upgrade...but the new displays generally offer noticeable improvement for the majority of content. (and this includes sports IMO...though the plasma is still stunning as well)...
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post #107 of 119 Old 01-29-2018, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Yellbean View Post
100% agreement. Size and 4k should be the main reasons for upgrading from one of the last Gen Plasmas.


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The last gen plasmas still hold up very well, although a good LED now has better black levels than previous versions. And certainly OLED which may be the best replacement for plasma. Too bad they could not have made a 4K UHD plasma before they stopped producing.
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post #108 of 119 Old 01-29-2018, 01:12 PM
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This has been said already but:


The OLED sets and some of the super high end LCD sets have surpassed plasma in many ways but not all ways. The real loss of plasma was mid range to lower end sets-- The image disparity between a top end LCD like the Sony mentioned above and something mid tier is extreme. The amazing thing about plasma was you didn't need to break the bank to get a great image.
For me, motion handling is still a big issue and why I only run plasma and DLP front projection. OLED is getting better and Sony's SXRD isn't bad but LCD is still surprisingly poor. For gaming in particular the plasmas are ideal. Right now console gaming can barely manage 1080p at a consistent frame rate and video gaming is one of the few sources I've found that can take advantage of the contrast and dynamics my plasma is capable of.

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post #109 of 119 Old 01-29-2018, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post
OK I was just curious since the colors seem off in the picture comparison I quoted. I do agree now that anyone upgrading from a 60"-65" high-end plasma should be looking at a 75" or bigger set. No reason to buy anything 65".
77" OLEDs are still too much. I went with a 65" for that reason. If you're looking at 75" LCD sets, you are going to buy a new display with worse black level performance, period. It's a hard sell IMO.

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post #110 of 119 Old 01-30-2018, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dangerousdave View Post
I've owned this plasma I bought for $1,238 for 6 years now. I'm going to be moving to another home and was wondering if I should buy a wall mount for my plasma (currently on a table) OR get an entirely new type of display. After reading this thread, I'm sticking with my plasma that is still fabulous. It certainly sounds like plasma owners are more than happy to stick with them compared to what else is available. Thanks for all the comments in this thread.
I've seen the ZT series mentioned....that wasn't a traditional "consumer" based model that could've been picked up at BestBuy, I think. Even the next best (outside of the Kuro) ST60s and ST50s were only final 2 years in the total production era of plasmas. If you have a plasma older than those, chances are even a mid-range LED will beat it in most areas.

I had a D7000 Samsung plasma (basically the same as your ST30). At the time the big deal was the deep blacks of plasma. My new budget/mid range Vizio bests it easily. Movies/letterbox bars/dark scenes are no contest, the Vizio just gets deeper. During the day it beats it, and in a pitch black room it still beats it. Plasmas being the black level kings isn't necessarily true these days unless you own an elite model (Kuro, ZT) or one of the last generations of plasmas (ST/VT60s and 50s). They have the edge in motion still, but pixel response of LEDs has improved a lot, as has the implementation of BFI...there's still a motion gap, but its smaller.
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post #111 of 119 Old 01-30-2018, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
77" OLEDs are still too much. I went with a 65" for that reason. If you're looking at 75" LCD sets, you are going to buy a new display with worse black level performance, period. It's a hard sell IMO.
Well the picture on my 65vt50 is so good I wouldn’t buy a new set that wasn’t BIGGER unless my plasma dies. A high end FALD LCD may not beat my plasma in black level but most of my viewing is with some light on, especially daylight. I don’t think getting a 65” OLED would impress me as much as a 75” high end FALD LCD such as the Z9D or 940E.
I will say that my first choice is probably the 77C8 but I don’t think it will get under $5000 this year.
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post #112 of 119 Old 01-31-2018, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandis View Post
77" OLEDs are still too much. I went with a 65" for that reason. If you're looking at 75" LCD sets, you are going to buy a new display with worse black level performance, period. It's a hard sell IMO.
Truthfully I purchased a LG B6 and returned it prior to the Sony 940D as the "upgrade" wasn't that apparent and the motion was definitely a downgrade (note: there was not much 4k material available at the time so that was not much of a factor). The Sony's black level is pretty good (much better than the Panasonic S30 I have in the bedroom), arguably has better near black detail, and the size increase had a much bigger impact than the slight loss. Ultimately I think we are most definitely at a point of diminishing returns.

BTW I did purchase my ZT60 at Bestbuy.
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post #113 of 119 Old 02-01-2018, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I've seen the ZT series mentioned....that wasn't a traditional "consumer" based model that could've been picked up at BestBuy, I think.
Both the VT60 and ZT60 were in store and for sale at Best Buy.

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post #114 of 119 Old 02-02-2018, 05:23 AM
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Both the VT60 and ZT60 were in store and for sale at Best Buy.
+1 on the BB Plasma. We purchased our VT60 at BB. Superb picture. INMO, if you find one somewhere, then buy it. You will not be sorry.
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chiming in, I used to have all plasmas in my house. after switching to a 4k tv, I have to say there is no turning back. of course all the pros and cons listed here are 100% correct. So it comes down to: depends what you want and what you are looking for.
for me, watching a 4k disc just blows me away, the detail and color is phenomenal.
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post #116 of 119 Old 02-02-2018, 08:15 AM
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Yeah I just can?t see upgrading from a 65vt50 to a 4K set without also going bigger.

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post #117 of 119 Old 02-02-2018, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

I do agree now that anyone upgrading from a 60"-65" high-end plasma should be looking at a 75" or bigger set. No reason to buy anything 65".
While having a big set will give you an immersive wow factor, you will be surprised how good a same size 65" set can wow you as well, specially if you go Oled.

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post #118 of 119 Old 02-03-2018, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skads_187 View Post
chiming in, I used to have all plasmas in my house. after switching to a 4k tv, I have to say there is no turning back. of course all the pros and cons listed here are 100% correct. So it comes down to: depends what you want and what you are looking for.
for me, watching a 4k disc just blows me away, the detail and color is phenomenal.
+1
it is all about the content. If you are watching 4K material, then OLED is the way to go.
We watch DTV and Netflix. Our Panny VT60 shines in this universe (HT humor).
My $.02
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post #119 of 119 Old 02-03-2018, 06:48 AM
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Great thread! Appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts.

Reading all the comments, makes me want to hunt down a plasma! I'm on a cheap 46" 1080p lcd currently so the ST60 would be a great upgrade.
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