8K TV is Coming: What You Need to Know - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's a brief clip of the CES 2018 demo showing 4K to 8K upscaling on the Q9S...

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post #92 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
Here's a example: because of the increased density of self emission points a OLED panels and the low brightness associate with smaller emitters. From a OLED-Info.com article

DSCC: LGD will start mass producing top-emission OLED TV panels in 2019
LGD's current OLED TV panels use a bottom-emission architecture, but according to DSCC LGD is aiming to shift their production process to a top-emission design starting in 2019. LG currently has a pilot capacity of about 3,000 monthly top-emission substrates, and plans to start mass production (with over 10,000 monthly substrates) in 2019. DSCC says that top-emission will be required for 65" 8K panels as a bottom-emission design will not be bright enough with such a high density. The shift to top-emission will increase the aperture ratio (=brightness) by around 10%.

I seen this with several articles talking about 8K display technology, not a lot that is readily available, just bits here and there.

So perhaps this increase sales of solar panels, as it sure won't help with natural gas bills in the winter!
From that it doesn’t sound like OLED will ever be bright enough for HDR. Current OLED sets aren’t even getting close to 1000 nits required for it, and when the emitters are even smaller it seems even less likely.
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post #93 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 05:02 PM
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I have hard enough time finding 1080P for my 1080P TV with Direct TV or streaming with Kodi. I even notice lately that the new Red-box movies seems to be hard finding Blue Rays. Seems like the last few months its gone backwards as far as finding any HD above 720. I would think 8K be more usable for the cinemas, and not so much for the Home Theater viewers. The only reason I would see worth for me to upgrade to a 4k, would be the HDR. I dont even see any pixels at 1080P with a 65 inch 9 feet away. I just dont see how it could be any improvement. You could have 128K, but I think there is a point that the picture can not look any better.


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post #94 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
The only part of the IMAX experience I was considering to be important, at least in the context of the article, is how the screen fills your peripheral vision.

And just curious, isn't your dislike of Dunkirk due to some aspects(s) of the movie itself, as opposed to the qualities inherent to an IMAX presentation?

By the way, 3D looks GREAT when the screen fills your peripheral vision. Like with 3D IMAX presentations.

An 8K TV with a passive 3D filter would be a thing of beauty. I keep pointing out to TV companies that there's a pent up demand for a good 3D-capable TV, the first to offer one will likely clean up with everyone who is itching to upgrade and have 3D in the mix.
You're right, the movie was mediocre. How could you fail with the legend of Dunkirk? I just meant that IMAX is not going to cause a greater movie watching experience all by itself, but that's really a non-point in this discussion. I should point out that a bad movie on a screen as big as a mountain is a peculiarly unpleasant experience.

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post #95 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
I have hard enough time finding 1080P for my 1080P TV with Direct TV or streaming with Kodi. I even notice lately that the new Red-box movies seems to be hard finding Blue Rays. Seems like the last few months its gone backwards as far as finding any HD above 720. I would think 8K be more usable for the cinemas, and not so much for the Home Theater viewers. The only reason I would see worth for me to upgrade to a 4k, would be the HDR. I dont even see any pixels at 1080P with a 65 inch 9 feet away. I just dont see how it could be any improvement. You could have 128K, but I think there is a point that the picture can not look any better.
There was a Sony store doing a 1080p/4K side by side comparison. Of course there are variances in TV's and such, but I was thinking, was that supposed to sell people on 4K? Close up, you can see the difference but when I step back to where I would normally view content, it's barely noticeable in moving images.

If 8K is coming, I have no problem with that, but in of itself, it's not going to make me go out and upgrade.
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post #96 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LumensLover View Post
This is what you need to know: 8K is already obsolete compared to 16k.
And 16K is already obsolete compared to 32K.

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post #97 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post
"Visually, what you can expect from an 8K TV—at the bare minimum—is totally invisible pixels, which is already the defacto standard for smartphones and tablets."

This is the keynote comment in your wonderful article IMO Mark. 8k has always been the defacto golden ring sought by home display makers to achieve "reality" imaging. The standard will obviously be pushed even higher in the future for emerging formats such as VR and AI imaging. Those and others could theoretically require 18-32K to achieve total realism. But although 1080p-4kx2k with all of the bells and whistles like HDR, DV can be awe inspiring. 8k QLED & OLED with the same bells & whistles...along with invisible pixels, most definitely will become the "Gold & Platinum" standard for home based displays in my lifetime.
When movies are still often finished at 2k and upscaled(admittedly some of them look fantastic with HDR) I don't care about 8k.

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post #98 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
Not in my experience - I'd imagine 1080p content will still look just as good, or better on a 1080p display than an 8K display. And lower resolutions? Atrocious! UNLESS there is some magic new processing can pull off??
Maybe you need buy a better TV
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post #99 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 05:32 PM
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Jeez! You already have to sit within 4 feet of a 60-inch display in order to benefit fully from the resolution. 8K seems a big leap much too soon. I can't distinguish 4k movies from the same movie in 2k and I sit 8 feet back from my 60-inch display, which is how far back you must sit in order to be able take in the screen. Any closer and the edges of the screen are in the periphery. I really don't see much use for 8k for anything short of 120-inch display. That's not going to fit in most homes.
My hockey games are still broadcast at 720p 30fps. What I would rather see that would really improve the experience is higher frame rates. We should be reaching for 120fps for content, 60fps at a minimum. Movies are still 24fps. Foolish that we are going for 8K.
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post #100 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
8k will mostly just benefit tvs 75" and up in my opinion. So I wouldn't expect a difference with smaller tvs.
I'm willing to bet you that there'll still be THAT ONE guy that'll buy a 55inch 8K TV, sit 12 inches away from it and then come and argue on the forums about clearly "seeing a difference" ;-)
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post #101 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 06:27 PM
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I'm happy with my 4k TVs. 86UH9500 and OLED65C6P, though the 3D on the UH9500 is worthless with all the crosstalk.

Forget 8k, 16k, 24k, 32k... Let me know when the resolution is over 9000k.

Personally, I'm waiting for VRTV. This talk of resolution doesn't matter anymore. Immersion is the future. I don't care about Game of Thrones in 10,000K with Ultra 62bit HDR and 16.4.8 Dolby Ultimate HyperHD Audio. I want to feel like I'm there, and VR is where that begins.

8k. LOL.

I'm still waiting for BBC America in HD so I can watch Doctor Who in high def.
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post #102 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 06:33 PM
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8k tv discussion hidden away in LCD forum.
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post #103 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 06:37 PM
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I'm amazed that You Tube can offer 8k content but yet still doesn't offer anything higher than 2 channel audio.
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post #104 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dmillionz View Post
And 16K is already obsolete compared to 32K.
Mmmm 32k.

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post #105 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 07:36 PM
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Added pixel density on 75” and up screens can not be a bad thing.


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post #106 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Agent 7100 View Post
Well here a short 1min in-game clip showing that my RX570 got no problems handling 4k gaming smoothly. Unfortunately, after uploading, the quality of this clip degraded quite a bit.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AhMbLMEEM26ghkqG7pIWdfRe4TVm
My Xbox One X plays 4K games including HDR very well, too.
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post #107 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Here's a brief clip of the CES 2018 demo showing 4K to 8K upscaling on the Q9S...

https://youtu.be/soksgSnkHYQ
But it is still 4k, just on an 8k display.
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post #108 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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But it is still 4k, just on an 8k display.
It was an upscaling demo, of 480p, 1080p, and 2160p content, to an 8K UHD display. That's why they showed the resolution on screen, so you know what the source is.

I've seen 8K playing on 8K displays, that's been a CES staple for a few years. Showing what upscaling looks like is of interest since that's what most content is going to be, regardless of when or how much 8K content becomes available. Just like how many people are still watching 720p and 1080i on cable TV with their 4K TVs, and to add insult to injury with sports that's the "good" feed, with streaming being a disaster.

I can't predict the future, I just know that you can't play 8K content on a 4K TV but you can play 4K content on an 8K TV and that's an important distinction. 8K content will need to wait but 8K TVs... well, as long as they support HDR and 4K then it comes down to whether you'd use the TV in some of the ways I described, or not.

Because I am a photographer, I'd appreciate a TV that showed the entirety of a high-resolution DSLR image all at once—at 85" and in HDR with DCI/P3 color—for sure.

Anyhow, to strictly fixate on the 8K resolution is perhaps to miss the point. In the case of the Q9S, the extra pixels are part of a high-performance display that—if money were no object—anyone who sees it would welcome it in their living room or media room. Assuredly.

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post #109 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by the7mcs View Post

I'm willing to bet you that there'll still be THAT ONE guy that'll buy a 55inch 8K TV, sit 12 inches away from it and then come and argue on the forums about clearly "seeing a difference" ;-)
One guy? The forum will be flooded with them.

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post #110 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by pdoherty972 View Post
From that it doesn’t sound like OLED will ever be bright enough for HDR. Current OLED sets aren’t even getting close to 1000 nits required for it, and when the emitters are even smaller it seems even less likely.
From a znet.com article against the 88-inch OLED display

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LG said that conventionally, increases in resolution make pixels smaller, and that lowers aperture ratio, which makes it hard to maintain luminance.

But OLED emits light by itself, so it doesn't lower luminance when the aperture ratio is lower, and is therefore best for 8K resolution, the company said. LCD will need a stronger backlight to achieve this, and therefore will increase costs and power consumption, it added.

Rival Samsung has been critical of OLED, saying the burn-in problems intensify when the screen gets bigger.
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post #111 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 09:59 PM
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Did somebody put a 'kill-a-watt' meter on that 8K 10,000 Nit Sony at CES?
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post #112 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Explain by what mechanism 8K TVs use more power than same-size, same-brightness 4K?
the pixel grid blocks more light and you need to power more transistors x4 at least to run the screen and that's not free at all.
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Europeans can't fit large TVs in their homes anyhow, they'll be fine with 4K.
excuse me? what have Europeans to do with the size of there houses...
Japan is know for smaller homes(in big cities) and even that is a freaking lie to generalise it.
it's like saying Americans build houses out of wood so the next tornado can take care of them and the roofs need to be remade every 10-25 years because they do a bad job there.

seriously what's wrong here?
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I bet you big bucks that if worse comes to worse, the EPA will exempt huge power-hungry TVs because someone who happens to be in power loves TVs a lot.
the EU nearly banned mid to high end GPU because they take to much power.
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post #113 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Pragmatically speaking, true (no upsampled) 4K is already overkill for typical living room viewing habits, even with an 85" TV.

What's happening is that 1080p TVs are being phased out. 4K is going to enjoy a nice ride for some years to come, it's not going away. I get why some folks are cynical about 8K branding, but it surely serves as shorthand for "better TV" so that's how it's going to be marketed.
No, it’s not. Quit spreading this blanket statement BS. Are you blind? 1080p does not cut it on bigger screens.
I can resolve 1080p vs 2160p clear as day on my 75 in my living room. Night and day difference.
This crap needs to stop.

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post #114 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 10:38 PM
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which is interesting because the number of true 4k content that is not catrom upscaled is so slim...
there are more than enough uhd BD downscale and upscale comparison.

so feel free to catch one of these to show me the day night difference. which should be so so easy for you.
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post #115 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 11:00 PM
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Unwarranted

I remember when 4k was first announced and they said it was intended for 70"+ screen sizes, the kind you get in pubs and that so good knows how big a screen you'd need for this, personally other than for gaming 4k is completely redundant, I want 3d back in TV's as I'm clinging to my old passive TV
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post #116 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 11:39 PM
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Where this 8K TV is coming from is the new broadcast standards designed to replace the 1080i System. It is a long term strategy, to make it possible in many years time that what you see on your TV is very close of life-like. NHK determined many years ago that that required 16K--but 8K was very close and much more practical to implement.

It's more for economics that the Japanese decided to skip 4K and go straight to broadcasting in 8K. South Korea decided to move to 4K broadcast and later switch to 8K as for their market they decided thats the best economics.

In Japan from next year you will see TVs sold with 8K tuners

None of this justifies an 8K Panel; but to keep the monied happy these 8K panels are there for the few hundred people who insist that they show every last pixel available from the source. hence the handful of 8K sets announced.

Normal people will buy 4K sets with 8K tuners.
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post #117 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Bklynblaze View Post
When 4K becomes the equivalent of 1080P sets in my local Best Buy that’s when I’ll consider 8K. We’re a far ways off from that. Until then, I’ll enjoy my 4K tv that I don’t even have yet.
That's the best attitude I have yet to reed in this comments tread...
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post #118 of 287 Old 01-30-2018, 11:52 PM
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i still wonder if broadcast will survive the next 10 year...
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post #119 of 287 Old 01-31-2018, 01:03 AM
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So how many versions of HDR will we get with 8K? Four, five, ten?

I personally don't see the need to upgrade to 8K in a very long time. At my current viewing distance of 8ft the 4K resolution will be just fine up to 85" without seeing individual pixels. Any screen over 90" is unlikely to even fit on the wall.

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post #120 of 287 Old 01-31-2018, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by pdoherty972 View Post
My Xbox One X plays 4K games including HDR very well, too.
yep, 4k gaming is alive and going strong! Those who face problems - not us

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