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post #211 of 287 Old 02-05-2018, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by pottscb View Post
The point is, improvements, yes. Incremental at best over the past 10 years. Space-X is landing rockets on moving ships in the Atlantic Ocean and consumer electronics is pushing 8K displays as necessary in a display when no one could see a difference with 4K displays...now I know why the old timers get disillusioned with it all!
Speak for yourself blind man. Stop with the blanket statement BS. Buy a bigger TV and go see an eye doctor.
For some of us, the difference is huge.
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post #212 of 287 Old 02-05-2018, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pottscb View Post
The point is, improvements, yes. Incremental at best over the past 10 years. Space-X is landing rockets on moving ships in the Atlantic Ocean and consumer electronics is pushing 8K displays as necessary in a display when no one could see a difference with 4K displays...now I know why the old timers get disillusioned with it all!
Begs the question. How far do you sit from your display? 20ft?

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post #213 of 287 Old 02-05-2018, 10:17 PM
 
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Speak for yourself blind man. Stop with the blanket statement BS. Buy a bigger TV and go see an eye doctor.
For some of us, the difference is huge.
There is no 'huge' difference between 1080p and plain 2160p/4k with SDR. Take a Blu-ray movie in both 1080p and 4k versions, there is barely a difference. If you add in HDR to the mix, then 4K HDR does show improvements, but with a normal SDR 4k image there is barely any advantage, an upscaled 1080p blu ray movie looks almost as good. you'd have to have a screen 75" or bigger and sit within 5-6 ft. to make out the additional 4x pixel advantage that 2160p has over 1080p. but viewing on a 65 or 55" tv from say a 7 ft. distance, 4k (sdr) seems barely a leap. the same will be true with the jump to 8k from 4k, a minimal leap. Resolutions have hit a point of diminishing returns. The last big leap was 1080p from 720p.

And you shouldn't have replied to that poster in the condescending manner you did ('blind man go see an eye doctor')..please grow up.
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post #214 of 287 Old 02-06-2018, 02:14 AM
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In reality human eye see no pixel

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Originally Posted by usajvbueno View Post
8K today will be like a buy a Ferrari and drive it at 35 miles per Hour.

What a waste.

The Human eye can not appreciate the detail.

More Pixels than the human eye can see.
In reality human eye see no pixel, so on a ideal screen you shouldn't see any pixel at any distance.
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post #215 of 287 Old 02-06-2018, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
There is no 'huge' difference between 1080p and plain 2160p/4k with SDR. Take a Blu-ray movie in both 1080p and 4k versions, there is barely a difference. If you add in HDR to the mix, then 4K HDR does show improvements, but with a normal SDR 4k image there is barely any advantage, an upscaled 1080p blu ray movie looks almost as good. you'd have to have a screen 75" or bigger and sit within 5-6 ft. to make out the additional 4x pixel advantage that 2160p has over 1080p. but viewing on a 65 or 55" tv from say a 7 ft. distance, 4k (sdr) seems barely a leap. the same will be true with the jump to 8k from 4k, a minimal leap. Resolutions have hit a point of diminishing returns. The last big leap was 1080p from 720p.

And you shouldn't have replied to that poster in the condescending manner you did ('blind man go see an eye doctor')..please grow up.
In these sort of conversations folks often mix up using the TV as a computer, gaming, watching movies/content. These activities are done at different distances.
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post #216 of 287 Old 02-06-2018, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
There is no 'huge' difference between 1080p and plain 2160p/4k with SDR. Take a Blu-ray movie in both 1080p and 4k versions, there is barely a difference. If you add in HDR to the mix, then 4K HDR does show improvements, but with a normal SDR 4k image there is barely any advantage, an upscaled 1080p blu ray movie looks almost as good. you'd have to have a screen 75" or bigger and sit within 5-6 ft. to make out the additional 4x pixel advantage that 2160p has over 1080p. but viewing on a 65 or 55" tv from say a 7 ft. distance, 4k (sdr) seems barely a leap. the same will be true with the jump to 8k from 4k, a minimal leap. Resolutions have hit a point of diminishing returns. The last big leap was 1080p from 720p.

And you shouldn't have replied to that poster in the condescending manner you did ('blind man go see an eye doctor')..please grow up.
Yes, there is a huge difference. Buy a bigger TV and go see an eye doctor.
Quit speaking for other people’s vision, equipment and experience when you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Is this that difficult to understand? You keep telling others what they’re seeing and experiencing, I’ll keep telling you’re don’t know what you’re talking about. Because you don’t.

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post #217 of 287 Old 02-06-2018, 06:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
Yes, there is a huge difference. Buy a bigger TV and go see an eye doctor.
Quit speaking for other people’s vision, equipment and experience when you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Is this that difficult to understand? You keep telling others what they’re seeing and experiencing, I’ll keep telling you’re don’t know what you’re talking about. Because you don’t.
i'm not telling others what they're seeing or experiencing, the other poster with whom you were arguing was saying 4k is an incremental leap, that is an opinion I agree with. Learn to tolerate an opposing pov without getting your < > in a bunch.
On a large screen and close viewing distance, you could make out some advantage, but like I said on a 65 or 55" tv with a 7ft or more distance and a source like an upscaled 1080p blu ray, the 4k blu ray version looks hardly better.
1080p to 4k is not the (real) huge leap we saw when moving from 720p to 1080p.
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post #218 of 287 Old 02-06-2018, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
Yes, there is a huge difference. Buy a bigger TV and go see an eye doctor.
Quit speaking for other people’s vision, equipment and experience when you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Is this that difficult to understand? You keep telling others what they’re seeing and experiencing, I’ll keep telling you’re don’t know what you’re talking about. Because you don’t.
Isn't that exactly what you're doing? Calling people blind? You also have no idea how big other people's TVs are. I have a 110" screen, 20/20 vision and I still agree that 4k doesn't have much of a benefit in SDR at any reasonable seating distance. Sure that's my opinion, but it's also scientific fact that the human eye can't make out these pixels at a normal seating distance.

Stop being so sensitive that we don't agree with you.

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post #219 of 287 Old 02-06-2018, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
1080p blu ray, the 4k blu ray version looks hardly better.
(To YOU)
I'll end this right now...fixed that for you.

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post #220 of 287 Old 02-06-2018, 07:44 AM
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The day I brought home my 65" 4k display, I placed it next to my 65" 1080p display thinking I'd be switching HDMI cables back and forth. Both Samsungs, both the best models offered for their year albeit I purchased each the year after they were released paying much less than initially offered at clearance sales. I had not yet calibrated or anything else. I simply plugged my HTPC into the new display, made a couple settings changes, and proceeded to play a 1080p title I was familiar with, often played on the old display.


I reclined at my normal seating distance of 12 feet and no recline, sitting at 10 feet, and proceeded to analyze my new purchase upgrade. There was no analyzing needed. The improvement was night and day. When I was done wiping the grin off my face, I reminded myself I haven't even calibrated yet and this is a 1080p upscaled. Then I decided to play a 3D frame packed from file knowing its resolution is going to remain 1080p. My jaw hit my knee. It too looks like it never has before; As if I'm watching my old familiar titles for the 1st time. I immediately fired up some 4k UHD HDR test files. Initially, I only saw them for their resolution value as I struggled to get the HDR part of them to decode which took quite a while for me to figure out and apparently MS, nVidia and software players too.


Even with the under saturated picture I was viewing, I was astonished. Later that day, I learned I could simply put the 4k HDR test files on a USB stick and plug it into the display for decent decoding and a few months later, everything came together to play them from the HTPC. Needless to say, the old 1080p went up for sale that evening as I was convinced the new display was staying. All I thought about the rest of that evening was everyone that 'reviewed' and opined 4k here promised exactly the opposite of my 1st hand accounts and the same gang mentality is doing it again with 8k now.


My only wish is that manufactures start releasing mainstream 8k panels ASAP so I can take advantage of the cream of the crop clearance models ASAP. I have no doubt history will repeat itself and my UHD HDR titles will upscale and amaze me on my future 8k display just as my 1080p's do on my 4k display today. I could care less about lack of 8k sources but they too will come enhancing the upgrade even more. So, the sooner the better and naysayers can swim in their beliefs trying to convince others they are seeing a mirage based on their scientific findings.
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post #221 of 287 Old 02-06-2018, 08:29 AM
 
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I'll end this right now...fixed that for you.

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1080p blu rays are already encoded so well that an upscaled 1080p disc looks close to its 4k disc version. if you add in hdr to the 4k disc, then that makes a noticeable difference, but a 4k sdr blu ray vs 1080p blu ray isn't a day and night difference at all, it's minimal at best. this is not merely my opinion, but a lot of the people in the blu ray section agree with this. you can keep thinking adding more pixels will make things better, I don't have issues with that. but I rather manufacturers concentrate on other aspects of PQ than just increasing pixels.

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post #222 of 287 Old 02-06-2018, 10:28 AM
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There is no such thing as a 4k SDR disc. There is no adding in HDR. All 4k discs are HDR. When you alter the original content and down convert to SDR so you can play it on inferior equipment and then compare and say "There see. It doesn't look any better than 1080p", you can all band together and stand tall in your accomplishment. In the mean time, the rest of us enjoy it as intended, the difference between night and day. You are welcome to enjoy your investments in old tech and all your reasoning and scientific experiments declaring why you have derived no reason to upgrade and complain those that do are foolishly mistaken.


A 1080p title played back on a 4k display doesn't even need to be analyzed SBS with a 1080p display. The difference is night and day even without HDR being native. True, they do not look as good as a native HDR 4k disc but they are improved in every way especially clarity. I see details I never saw before. They are enhanced in ways words cannot describe. Even cable and broadcast TV are improved night and day. One doesn't need to flip back and forth between 1080 and 2160 panels to notice all the differences. Once the 4k is plugged in, there is no point plugging the 1080 in to compare. It's that improved.

Many things are concentrated on and included with resolution upgrades. I like the thinner bezels 4k panels introduced and the width as well as weight just from a physical aspect. With the advent of 4k, it put every projector to shame. They simply cannot produce the same quality video a panel produces. The color range gamut was widened and very realistic. The nit values increased contrast producing depth unlike we've ever seen. The list goes on. Just watch 1 minute of any Planet Earth II episode on any mainstream decent 4k panel and end your confusion because the SDR d/l on your non HDR 1080 PJ or 1080 panel isn't going to be anywhere near as breath taking but you're welcome to keep thinking it is.
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post #223 of 287 Old 02-06-2018, 10:44 AM
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There doesn't need to be a 4k disc in SDR. I own a 4k TV from 2 years ago that didn't come with HDR or WCG. So UHD movies can't display HDR even if they have it. It sucks that I didn't get those two upgrades, but I wanted to upgrade my 1080p TV and I had not heard about HDR yet. Like you, I appreciate the thinner bezel and better overall looks of the TV and figured 4k was going to be the standard anyway so why not.

The one thing that keeps bugging me is that most of you who love 4k assume the rest of us just don't want change or don't want to buy into new tech. That's not the case, as I stated I bought my 4k TV 2 years ago. We just want to see the improvements in other areas. I truly want to see what you guys claim to see, but I just don't and it's not because I have bad vision, I simply fail to see the benefit of the resolution. I would love to see someone's set up with 4k to see if there was a flaw in my own. I have tried numerous tests on different screens and still fail to see the benefit, but still, maybe something is missing.

You bring up an interesting point about planet earth 2. When I watched planet earth 2 it looked astonishing, but here's where I am confused. I watched it in 1080p. I then went back and watched planet earth 1 in 1080p which now looks like garbage even though when it first came out, I couldn't believe how great it looked. So what's really going on here? Is it the downsampling of film that was shot in 4k that makes it still look great in 1080p? Perhaps, this is why I am not seeing the benefit of 4k, because my eyes have adjusted to the higher quality of film over the years. I may not be making complete sense here, but I recommend going and watching a few scenes from both planet earth 1 and then planet earth 2, BOTH on a 1080p display. The difference is huge in the same resolution.

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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
There is no such thing as a 4k SDR disc. There is no adding in HDR. All 4k discs are HDR. When you alter the original content and down convert to SDR so you can play it on inferior equipment and then compare and say "There see. It doesn't look any better than 1080p"
Not completely true. Earlier UHD blu ray discs did not all have HDR, like the IMAX releases. We were talking about resolutions, high dynamic range is not resolution. And it's not discs only, watch a good encoded 1080p video and watch its 4k sdr version, I don't know how you find there is a night and day difference. It is not even close to the difference between 720p and 1080p. But whatever.
People eager about 8k will in a few years start drooling about 16k. Myself am no longer keen about resolution bumps, I want to see PQ improvements other than resolution.

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post #225 of 287 Old 02-06-2018, 11:22 AM
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There is no such thing as a 4k SDR disc. There is no adding in HDR. All 4k discs are HDR.
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Not completely true. Earlier UHD blu ray discs did not all have HDR, like the IMAX releases.


There are a nice number of 4k SDR discs, even recently. "Mayhem" and "Cell block 99" are both SDR and came out within the past 2 months. Also Neon Demon, Bad Santa 2, Hickock, Stranger Things Season 1 to name a few.

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A lot of people say you cant see the difference with 4k and 1080p/upscaled 1080p. completely false. watch a NATIVE 4k uncompressed movie such as Dunkirk, Billy Lynn, Bladerunner 2049, and youd be surprised how far away you can tell its native 4k, especially if its full screen. The super crispness and detail refinement is marvelous over even the best 2k upscales, even from 10 feet away on a 65.
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post #227 of 287 Old 02-06-2018, 12:12 PM
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You brought up HDR. You also brought up instead of resolution upgrades you'd rather see other areas improve. I guess you don't see HDR as a side benefit improvement. I do. Why would I want to compare some obsolete pre HDR 4k SDR to some encoded 1080p video as you suggest? There were only a handful of those untimely titles and I disregard them as important enough to make your point.

I have perfect original 1:1 1080p title. I also have its re-mastered original 1:1 4k counterpart. I have no 4k SDR nor any reason to NEED it because I upgraded all my equipment to enjoy 4k as intended. I have no NEED to ALTER my SOURCE to be COMPATIBLE with my EQUIPMENT. You want me to compare garbage with garbage and agree one doesn't smell better than the other. On antiquated equipment, I suppose that is true. They require Standard Dynamic Range garbage in order to produce a watchable picture on that old equipment but those that upgraded to 4k chains do not. Our rendering is simply phenomenal using any source and they certainly don't need to be modified in order to work.


In other words, instead of suggesting I digress my equipment and make comparisons using altered unoriginal sources through editing, set your 1080p next to a 2160p. Go and encode Planet Earth II anyway you desire so you can get a picture that is watchable. Any title for that matter including a 1080p. Do what ever you want to that title and begin playback. I would suggest madVR algorithms to further enhance it or at least handle the downscaling. Now just play the same original disc or file without modifying it (SDR, HD, UHD, 720p, 2160p, 2D, 3D what ever) on the panel next to your 1080 display. I don't care if its from a USB, a dedicated player, or your PC. Make sure you're anywhere from 6 inches to 15 feet away from your 65" screen. If you don't see a difference like night and day, then upgrading isn't for you. I do here and my eyes are nothing special. The same will hold true for 8k. Others can profess until the cows come home that upgrading resolution and other side benefit improvements included are not noticeable let alone huge night and day differences. I simply disagree and welcome new tech as such.


I think a lot of not accepting new tech is the fact you need to set your old tech aside eventually. So you spent 10 grand on your OLED and/or your PJ and now it's about to be left in dust. Your upset. You feel better telling others if they upgrade they'll be disappointed since you did the diligence and arrived at conclusions they should just accept. You hope the new tech won't come along since you just got done investing in the old tech. You haven't even had time to embrace the new tech and milk it let alone get your moneys worth. Maybe instead of inventing false hope, one needs to realize they will not always be the new kid on the block or the fastest without constant upgrades to remain state of the art. That can get expensive. Maybe get another hobby or accept the fact you are not new and fast anymore because you are old and slow now. But to tell others they are not any newer or faster than you pulling out old photos of you in action way back when is ridiculous.
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post #228 of 287 Old 02-06-2018, 03:07 PM
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There are a nice number of 4k SDR discs, even recently. "Mayhem" and "Cell block 99" are both SDR and came out within the past 2 months. Also Neon Demon, Bad Santa 2, Hickock, Stranger Things Season 1 to name a few.

Saw Cell Block 99. One of the worst examples of UHD I've come across. Now I know why. It's SDR. Haven't seen any of the others but I can only guess. Why any studio would produce these still is beyond me but I stand corrected. Indeed there are some examples of non-HDR UHD in production. Perhaps the artistic impression was meant to look drab and dreary? In this case, with this title, it probably wouldn't make much difference viewing it 1080p or 2160p. At least not night and day. Reading your post, I looked up a video quality review regarding it.


"Colors aren't bright in this movie at all. Instead, there is a blue filter applied throughout most of the film, which gives every aspect of the image some sort of blue, silver, or greenish hue (even the orange jumpsuits are muted). For the last couple of scenes of the film, an orange filter takes over for the blue, leaving the presentation a bit hazy and glowing red or orange. The black levels aren't particularly deep, sometimes showing crush and halos. The skin tones aren't natural either, but that's due to the stylized filters. Basically, everything is just muted in this image."

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A lot of people say you cant see the difference with 4k and 1080p/upscaled 1080p. completely false. watch a NATIVE 4k uncompressed movie such as Dunkirk, Billy Lynn, Bladerunner 2049, and youd be surprised how far away you can tell its native 4k, especially if its full screen. The super crispness and detail refinement is marvelous over even the best 2k upscales, even from 10 feet away on a 65.

Agree 100%. Some titles are so crisp, I find myself turning down the sharpness adjustment in my panel. In some scenes, on most titles, reflections from eyes is more than I can handle. So is reflecting hair. Chrome bumpers and window reflections are fine though. On-set lighting in dark scene environments with unrealistic nit values is most prominent. Add to that the range of detail and colors reflected off the eyes takes away from the actual eyes themselves. Sort of like when you flashlight an animal at night and the eyes glow. Pause a scene sometime in a close up and look at the glossy reflection from the subjects eyeball. You'll see stuff on-set you weren't meant to. I don't think you noticed any of this using HD let alone the desire to under sharpen. Imagine 8k. I don't experience this when viewing a 1080p upscale. 4k native is very nice but 1080 upscale is pretty decent too. Much better than 1080 played on a 1080 without a doubt. What was that movie where they enhanced resolution over and over of a still picture bouncing from reflection to reflection enlarging along the way until they brought into view and sharpened up what they were seeking?
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post #229 of 287 Old 02-07-2018, 03:00 AM
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Correct. That's no mistake. That's because upscaling is part of the equation and 1080p isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so how an 8K TV deals with it is definitely still relevant.
As we shop for the 8k model that best fits our needs, it would be great to have test results that quantify just how good the upscaling is. Could you please arrange that?

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post #230 of 287 Old 02-07-2018, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
4k native is very nice but 1080 upscale is pretty decent too. Much better than 1080 played on a 1080 without a doubt.
Respected reviewer/calibrator David Mackenzie stated that it is best to playback 1080p material on a 1080p TV up to a certain size that way you will have the best 1080p experience according to him....Only native 1080p matters. You can add all sorts of artificial processing on a UHD TV, on top of the articifial motion enhancements i might add, to make it look ''better'' but then it is no longer the original source/material you are looking at.
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post #231 of 287 Old 02-07-2018, 08:17 AM
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I'm not a purist. When my hardware and my software improve the picture and I like it, I'm sticking with it. I don't care how phony others say it is for me. Same with audio. Some like the distortion and depth of an LP and anything digital is wrong. Not me. If you want to be a purist, never watch video or playback audio. See and hear everything live and be certain not to wear sunglasses or let your hair cover your ears.

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post #232 of 287 Old 02-07-2018, 08:21 AM
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As many have already mentioned- and similarly to 4K- we have reached the level of this resolution idiocy where one cannot even take in the ENTIRE IMAGE at the distances required to fully resolve said image...or certainly cannot be taken in with some level of discomfort.

With my 150" screen for instance, go ahead and sit 8-9 feet away with 4K (the distance required to "take it all in" , lmao) and tell me your brain does feel like a pan of scrambled eggs in 5 minutes.

Again, it's not about "having something against 8K". It's about SO many other attributes regarding picture quality where time and money would be so much better spent. It's a phallus-measuring-marketing-game and anyone with a brain between their ears knows it: 8K would sell the common-folk at at LEAST a 3:1 margin vs HDR, DV, black level "x" tech , or anything else: and ALL of course are more important at this stage of the game.

This all never minds the fact that the reality is that internet bandwidth borders on soup cans and string for (still) a shocking percentage in this country-- fantastically behind most first (and third) world countries.

Good luck with those 4 (never mind, 8) K streams/downloads.

sigh.

James
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post #233 of 287 Old 02-07-2018, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Glad that someone did! I did see an UltraD demo around 2 years ago. At the time, I felt it was not as effective as glasses-3D, particularly with pop-outs. But hopefully they've improved on that since then. (From your comments, it sounds like they have. Fingers crossed!)
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post #234 of 287 Old 02-07-2018, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
As many have already mentioned- and similarly to 4K- we have reached the level of this resolution idiocy where one cannot even take in the ENTIRE IMAGE at the distances required to fully resolve said image...or certainly cannot be taken in with some level of discomfort.

With my 150" screen for instance, go ahead and sit 8-9 feet away with 4K (the distance required to "take it all in" , lmao) and tell me your brain does feel like a pan of scrambled eggs in 5 minutes.

Again, it's not about "having something against 8K". It's about SO many other attributes regarding picture quality where time and money would be so much better spent. It's a phallus-measuring-marketing-game and anyone with a brain between their ears knows it: 8K would sell the common-folk at at LEAST a 3:1 margin vs HDR, DV, black level "x" tech , or anything else: and ALL of course are more important at this stage of the game.

This all never minds the fact that the reality is that internet bandwidth borders on soup cans and string for (still) a shocking percentage in this country-- fantastically behind most first (and third) world countries.

Good luck with those 4 (never mind, 8) K streams/downloads.

sigh.

James
Another whiny diatribe not based on any facts or reality. We need at least a few of these per day. Because it’s the cool thing to do.
If you need to sit 8ft from a 150” screen to “take in” 4K, I’ve got nothing for you.
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post #235 of 287 Old 02-07-2018, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
As many have already mentioned- and similarly to 4K- we have reached the level of this resolution idiocy where one cannot even take in the ENTIRE IMAGE at the distances required to fully resolve said image...or certainly cannot be taken in with some level of discomfort.

With my 150" screen for instance, go ahead and sit 8-9 feet away with 4K (the distance required to "take it all in" , lmao) and tell me your brain does feel like a pan of scrambled eggs in 5 minutes.

Again, it's not about "having something against 8K". It's about SO many other attributes regarding picture quality where time and money would be so much better spent. It's a phallus-measuring-marketing-game and anyone with a brain between their ears knows it: 8K would sell the common-folk at at LEAST a 3:1 margin vs HDR, DV, black level "x" tech , or anything else: and ALL of course are more important at this stage of the game.

This all never minds the fact that the reality is that internet bandwidth borders on soup cans and string for (still) a shocking percentage in this country-- fantastically behind most first (and third) world countries.

Good luck with those 4 (never mind, 8) K streams/downloads.

sigh.

James
James, you're literally the first person I've heard complain about a large screen and seeing 4K on it. Then you rage about 8K and the internet and how everyone else is more advanced than in the USA. I live in a foreign country where the government has spent billions on fiberoptic internet throughout the country..... well, that's not entirely true. They have pushed it out to regions where there's a concentrated population. I live 15 minutes outside the city and have to use wireless and have very limited bandwidth with extremely slow connection and it's very very expensive. I live in a reality that 4k streaming wont happen where I live for 10 plus years and that's optimistic. People here still rent discs and those that live in the city complain how slow their internet is and they're on fiber. So in reality it's not much different than the USA. I'm still a disc purchaser and will be for a long time so in my book purchasing or renting 4K or 8K isn't an issue.

Anyway, no one is going to force 8K down your throat, so no reason to get so upset about it and just because "you" don't think it's necessary doesn't mean it should not happen. If you go by that logic we should all still be using computers with punch cards.
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post #236 of 287 Old 02-07-2018, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
As many have already mentioned- and similarly to 4K- we have reached the level of this resolution idiocy where one cannot even take in the ENTIRE IMAGE at the distances required to fully resolve said image...or certainly cannot be taken in with some level of discomfort.

With my 150" screen for instance, go ahead and sit 8-9 feet away with 4K (the distance required to "take it all in" , lmao) and tell me your brain does feel like a pan of scrambled eggs in 5 minutes.

Again, it's not about "having something against 8K". It's about SO many other attributes regarding picture quality where time and money would be so much better spent. It's a phallus-measuring-marketing-game and anyone with a brain between their ears knows it: 8K would sell the common-folk at at LEAST a 3:1 margin vs HDR, DV, black level "x" tech , or anything else: and ALL of course are more important at this stage of the game.

This all never minds the fact that the reality is that internet bandwidth borders on soup cans and string for (still) a shocking percentage in this country-- fantastically behind most first (and third) world countries.

Good luck with those 4 (never mind, 8) K streams/downloads.

sigh.

James
Another whiny diatribe not based on any facts or reality. We need at least a few of these per day. Because it?s the cool thing to do.
If you need to sit 8ft from a 150? screen to ?take in? 4K, I?ve got nothing for you.

I'd like you to explain how my post isn't "based on facts or reality"?

Why? Because you stated as much?

It's impossible for me to care less what you "got" for me.

The fact of the matter is science and the limitations of human sight dictate "reality".

Go ahead and put a 1080 image and a 4k image up on my 150" and sit in my theater chairs @ 16' ...you will NOT distinguish between the two, all else being equal (admittedly hard to do).

Matter of fact, a 1080 PJ with superior contrast and HDR will SMOKE the 4k image EVERY TIME.

THAT'S reality. And FACT.

Now go ahead and post a predictable, staid, "whiny diatribe" without posting any FACTS to the contrary.

Have a nice day.

James

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post #237 of 287 Old 02-07-2018, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
As many have already mentioned- and similarly to 4K- we have reached the level of this resolution idiocy where one cannot even take in the ENTIRE IMAGE at the distances required to fully resolve said image...or certainly cannot be taken in with some level of discomfort.

With my 150" screen for instance, go ahead and sit 8-9 feet away with 4K (the distance required to "take it all in" , lmao) and tell me your brain does feel like a pan of scrambled eggs in 5 minutes.

Again, it's not about "having something against 8K". It's about SO many other attributes regarding picture quality where time and money would be so much better spent. It's a phallus-measuring-marketing-game and anyone with a brain between their ears knows it: 8K would sell the common-folk at at LEAST a 3:1 margin vs HDR, DV, black level "x" tech , or anything else: and ALL of course are more important at this stage of the game.

This all never minds the fact that the reality is that internet bandwidth borders on soup cans and string for (still) a shocking percentage in this country-- fantastically behind most first (and third) world countries.

Good luck with those 4 (never mind, 8) K streams/downloads.

sigh.

James
James, you're literally the first person I've heard complain about a large screen and seeing 4K on it. Then you rage about 8K and the internet and how everyone else is more advanced than in the USA. I live in a foreign country where the government has spent billions on fiberoptic internet throughout the country..... well, that's not entirely true. They have pushed it out to regions where there's a concentrated population. I live 15 minutes outside the city and have to use wireless and have very limited bandwidth with extremely slow connection and it's very very expensive. I live in a reality that 4k streaming wont happen where I live for 10 plus years and that's optimistic. People here still rent discs and those that live in the city complain how slow their internet is and they're on fiber. So in reality it's not much different than the USA. I'm still a disc purchaser and will be for a long time so in my book purchasing or renting 4K or 8K isn't an issue.

Anyway, no one is going to force 8K down your throat, so no reason to get so upset about it and just because "you" don't think it's necessary doesn't mean it should not happen. If you go by that logic we should all still be using computers with punch cards. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Wow. Seems you spent a lot of time and keystrokes repeating things I never said.

I'm not "upset", I just think and know 8k is a joke.

And I didn't "complain" about 4k, I asserted that 4k is BARELY worthwhile (IN AND OF ITSELF) on anything but the largest screens (see my 150?). Yes, MOST times 4k resolution cannot even be resolved...read: enjoyed/deciphered from 1080.

Yes, within 12-14' or so on my ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY INCH SCREEN, 4k - in and of itself- offers improved detail that can be realized at a near-typical distance for a screen of its size.

4k on 50, 60, 70 and even 80" displays?

All but a joke when 95+% sit 10+ feet away.

And yes, there are 200 countries on the planet- some with inferior i-net to the states. Doesn't invalidate what I stated, of course.

The analogy re the cpu's with punch cards was so flaccid and I won't even dignify it with a retort.

Enjoy 8k. Hopefully the sooner, the worse off we?ll all be as meaningful improvements in display technology will fall into the rearview while all the lemmings chase the new "x-k" and we hear how any imbecile can see how it clearly spirals 4k into the ground.


James

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Last edited by mastermaybe; 02-08-2018 at 05:43 AM.
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post #238 of 287 Old 02-07-2018, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
Wow. Seems you spent a lot of time and keystrokes ?repeating? things I never said.

I?m not ?upset?, I just think and know 8k is a joke.

And I didn?t ?complain? about 4k, I asserted that 4k is BARELY worthwhile (IN AND OF ITSELF) on anything but the largest screens (see my 150?). Yes, MOST times 4k resolution cannot even be resolved...read: enjoyed/deciphered from 1080.

Yes, within 12-14? or so on my ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY INCH SCREEN, 4k - in and of itself- offers improved detail that can be realized at a near-typical distance for a screen of its size.

4k on 50, 60, 70 and even 80? displays?

All but a joke when 95+% sit 10+ feet away.

And yes, there are 200 countries on the planet- some with inferior i-net to the states. Doesn?t invalidate what I stated, of course.

The analogy re the cpu?s with punch cards was so flaccid and I won?t even dignify it with a retort.

Enjoy 8k. Hopefully the sooner, the worse off we?ll all be as meaningful improvements in display technology will fall into the rearview while all the lemmings chase the new ?x-k? and we hear how any imbecile can see how it clearly spirals 4k into the ground.


James
You should backpedal. doh....
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post #239 of 287 Old 02-07-2018, 09:24 PM
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I have a calibrated mid range 4K TV with wannabe HDR. Eye can see the benefit of 4K on my 55inch x850c (pun intended)

If you don't? May I ask what your subpar vision of measurement is? If you can't see a difference maybe it's perhaps you can't see the difference!?

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post #240 of 287 Old 02-07-2018, 09:39 PM
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Speak for yourself blind man. Stop with the blanket statement BS. Buy a bigger TV and go see an eye doctor.
For some of us, the difference is huge.
Oh, SNAP!

Quote:
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Yes, there is a huge difference. Buy a bigger TV and go see an eye doctor.
Quit speaking for other people’s vision, equipment and experience when you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Is this that difficult to understand? You keep telling others what they’re seeing and experiencing, I’ll keep telling you’re don’t know what you’re talking about. Because you don’t.
Oh, DOUBLE SNAP!

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