8K TV is Coming: What You Need to Know - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 287 Old 02-08-2018, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post
You should backpedal. doh....
Not in the slightest, of course.

4K is nearly a complete waste of time and money (except on the LARGEST screens) when so much else would improve image quality to a much higher degree.

8K IS a complete waste of time and money when so much else would improve image quality to a much higher degree.

It's 98% marketing to sell more televisions- primarily so because so many people (especially Americans) are hardwired to believe "more is better", never mind the heart-stopping terror that someone else has something- wait for it- better. Been the easiest target of marketing to a male since, well, marketing.

Stand by it 100%

James
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post #242 of 287 Old 02-08-2018, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
4K is nearly a complete waste of time and money (except on the LARGEST screens) when so much else would improve image quality to a much higher degree.

8K IS a complete waste of time and money when so much else would improve image quality to a much higher degree.

It's 98% marketing to sell more televisions- primarily so because so many people (especially Americans) are hardwired to believe "more is better", never mind the heart-stopping terror that someone else has something- wait for it- better. Been the easiest target of marketing to a male since, well, marketing.

Stand by it 100%
You amuse me, but you're embarrassing yourself. Just curious, where are you from?
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post #243 of 287 Old 02-08-2018, 07:21 AM
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You amuse me, but you're embarrassing yourself. Just curious, where are you from?
I'm "embarrassing" myself. Right.

Ok dad, if you say so.

Don't worry about my locale, it's about as topical and material as you announcing my purported embarrassment.

My apologies to all in advance for this post, back to the topic...

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post #244 of 287 Old 02-08-2018, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
Not in the slightest, of course.

4K is nearly a complete waste of time and money (except on the LARGEST screens) when so much else would improve image quality to a much higher degree.

8K IS a complete waste of time and money when so much else would improve image quality to a much higher degree.

It's 98% marketing to sell more televisions- ...
You seem a little disoriented. Nobody cares about the image quality you see on your TV. Why should they? You may very well be right that other choices from designers/manufacturers/marketers could have made better choices for the image quality you see on your TV, but who cares? The world doesn't revolve around you personally.

Is it really 98% marketing to sell more televisions? Of course. What else could it be?
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post #245 of 287 Old 02-08-2018, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
You seem a little disoriented. Nobody cares about the image quality you see on your TV. Why should they? You may very well be right that other choices from designers/manufacturers/marketers could have made better choices for the image quality you see on your TV, but who cares? The world doesn't revolve around you personally.

Is it really 98% marketing to sell more televisions? Of course. What else could it be?

Ummm, no. Not "disoriented" in the slightest. "Who cares" regarding if companies that produce televisions/displays make production choices that produce the best image possible?

Is that a serious question?

The addition of the suggestion that the "world doesn't revolve around me" is simply juvenile, and worse, completely irrelevant.

Last, the fact that what I'm/we're discussing could only be about "marketing" (especially so, after all of this dialog) speaks volumes.

But you're probably right: anyone who thinks MUCH more should come before 8k is...."disoriented".

You cannot make this shtuff up.

James

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post #246 of 287 Old 02-08-2018, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
I'm "embarrassing" myself. Right.

Ok dad, if you say so.

Don't worry about my locale, it's about as topical and material as you announcing my purported embarrassment.

My apologies to all in advance for this post, back to the topic...

James
Right, son! (Oh, I only asked about where you were from as I always like to compare the various America/American bashers from around the world, or within the USA, just kind of a side-interest of mine....and sure, some of that bashing is deserved.....I'll give you that!).

So, yes back to the topic, of you preaching an opinion (that you are of course entitled to), but then essentially belittling those that might have a countering opinion or experience, perhaps not directly but the intent seems clear to me. Do you have a 4K projector? It doesn't seem you do as you indicated you are waiting for a price drop on them. Maybe that's old info. I'm just wondering how you are making the comparisons....

....because I just don't find 4K to be the waste you claim it to be, it's pretty obvious the differences (HDR aside even...) between lower resolutions and 4K, even on my teeny-weeny 65" display at 8-9', which theoretically I shouldn't be seeing, as well as practically, according to you, but I am taking in the entire image quite handily, and seeing the advantage of actual 4K content vs. 1080p. It would seem a great deal of other forum members suffer from the same affliction I do - we're seeing things that don't exist? Upscaled Blurays do look good! Not saying they don't, but actual 4K content just ups the game, all without the most massive of screens, sorry you're not getting that benefit from your system (which is quite nice, really - and I mean that sincerely, I did look...)

But didn't people crap all over 4K in very much the same way people are crapping all over 8K without really having the experience of it? How do you KNOW it's a joke, as you claim? Have you experienced it? Are you an 8K expert, engineer, something like that? Or you're just convinced it's marketing only for idiots because more pixels is better to the Neanderthalithic among us? Do you honestly believe that?

It's not just resolution, I think it promises to be a lot more than that. So, yeah. Bring it, nobody is forcing you to buy it. Laugh all you want, I'm enjoying the heck out of 4K on a relatively small screen, and I'll enjoy the heck out of 8K too, so go ahead and lump me in with the rest of the fools you imply us to be, I'm good with that!
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post #247 of 287 Old 02-08-2018, 01:10 PM
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@mastermaybe

James,

When Atmos came to the market people complained saying that most people don't even take advantage of 7.1, so what is adding more speakers going to do, what a waste (it's just a ploy to sell new processors and more speakers). Well, then we started hearing it and now enthusiasts are adding more and more channels. I gather there's a number of people here, including myself, excited about the 13 channel and 16 channel processors coming out. Sure, we'd like the 34 channel Trinnov, but it's not budget friendly. However, one thing we have realized is even through all the complaining on how unnecessary it was, it turned out to be something really special.

Now you're probably think so what's your fing point.

Well for one, with 4k you can now sit a lot closer to your screen and maybe that's not for you, but it certainly isn't a bad thing especially if you don't have a large room, but wants a big screen. With 8k you'll be able to sit even closer. With 8k your 4k TV's will start getting cheaper and the processing will only get better and better. Less eye strain, better processing are all part of the deal. So you personally may not see a benefit as far as pixels are concerned, but there will be other benefits that come along with it.

Again, no one is going to force you to upgrade your gear.
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post #248 of 287 Old 02-08-2018, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post
I'm "embarrassing" myself. Right.

Ok dad, if you say so.

Don't worry about my locale, it's about as topical and material as you announcing my purported embarrassment.

My apologies to all in advance for this post, back to the topic...

James
I accept your apology.

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post #249 of 287 Old 02-08-2018, 03:07 PM
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Seems that most are overlooking an additional advantage of 8k sets and that's 3D. Not that it might be glasses free, but that it should be able to offer 3D in 4K (more than you can say about 4K sets). Whether this will be the case on the first sets, we'll have to wait and see.
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post #250 of 287 Old 02-08-2018, 03:24 PM
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I'd enjoy a 4k title on a 65" 4k display vs 4k on a 150" TEN EIGHTY P display much more. Your great big ol' TEN EIGHTY P display is antiquated and sub par for modern titles. No matter how much you blow up the screen size and keep moving back to take it all in, you're just immersing yourself in a larger version of the same antiquated sub par picture. You're also blowing up your limited amount of pixels distorting it even more forcing you to move back even further so the distortion blends to the point you can't see it anymore. Then you lose most if not all of the detail. You will experience this poor quality to a much lesser degree when and if you upgrade to 4k. Even less when and if you upgrade to 8k. The larger the screen, the larger pixels. Every resolution distorts when your size to pixel count ratio is exceeded. How much is tolerable? Imo, 150" at 1080p resolution was exceeded about 100" ago. I understand some folks don't mind the picture looking like garbage as long as that garbage looks huge. I'm just different I guess......
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post #251 of 287 Old 02-08-2018, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post
When Atmos came to the market people complained saying that most people don't even take advantage of 7.1, so what is adding more speakers going to do, what a waste (it's just a ploy to sell new processors and more speakers). Well, then we started hearing it and now enthusiasts are adding more and more channels. I gather there's a number of people here, including myself, excited about the 13 channel and 16 channel processors coming out. Sure, we'd like the 34 channel Trinnov, but it's not budget friendly. However, one thing we have realized is even through all the complaining on how unnecessary it was, it turned out to be something really special.
Yes. I'm very excited for this more capable receiver technology KNOWING I will never be able to use it in my current space, just physically impossible due to size constraints to add more speakers - BUT how exciting it is for others that can take advantage, especially if prices become more and more reasonable, which forces lesser technology to become cheaper (or extinct....), but then opens it up to a greater number of people that were previously unwilling or unable to afford it. 11 channel processors come down in price, and so on. I don't want to afford an OLED display right now, but advancements in the tech. will either change my mind and coax me into affording it, or kill it off. Somebody moves forward at any rate. 8K makes 4K more affordable we might surmise.

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Now you're probably think so what's your fing point.

Well for one, with 4k you can now sit a lot closer to your screen and maybe that's not for you, but it certainly isn't a bad thing especially if you don't have a large room, but wants a big screen. With 8k you'll be able to sit even closer. With 8k your 4k TV's will start getting cheaper and the processing will only get better and better. Less eye strain, better processing are all part of the deal. So you personally may not see a benefit as far as pixels are concerned, but there will be other benefits that come along with it.
Precisely. It's more than just pixels. Things change so fast in this industry, I am so looking forward to seeing what other advancements will come along with 8K and beyond. It's a very exciting time! Skepticism is a good thing I think, and it's o.k. to be apprehensive, but I simply see no need to outright attack it like so many folks do.
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post #252 of 287 Old 02-09-2018, 04:53 AM
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we live in the upscaled world, realistically I can not see the point of 8k resolution let alone 4k resolution which has been within the ht guides for 20-30 years, sadlt at this stage we have nothing within the antenna based markets because they don't have the broadcasting power to support

reality is 4k is only practical on 60" and up as 4k kinda looks **** on anything lower, i own 2 of the latest samsung 55" panels I have to say whilst I can upscale to everything in 4k naturally reality is the source material can be from 640x480-1080p We don't have the bandwidth in terrestrial or sat transmissions or physical internet speed to support 4k let alone 8k, though in the wings 16k is going to be the norm in years to come though I think we are looking at upgrades in display and data ports to be able to support bandwidth to view content at though the reality n is you are looking at 75mm or higher film stock to produce the resolution past 4k..
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post #253 of 287 Old 02-09-2018, 04:05 PM
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we live in the upscaled world, realistically I can not see the point of 8k resolution let alone 4k resolution which has been within the ht guides for 20-30 years, sadlt at this stage we have nothing within the antenna based markets because they don't have the broadcasting power to support

reality is 4k is only practical on 60" and up as 4k kinda looks **** on anything lower, i own 2 of the latest samsung 55" panels I have to say whilst I can upscale to everything in 4k naturally reality is the source material can be from 640x480-1080p We don't have the bandwidth in terrestrial or sat transmissions or physical internet speed to support 4k let alone 8k, though in the wings 16k is going to be the norm in years to come though I think we are looking at upgrades in display and data ports to be able to support bandwidth to view content at though the reality n is you are looking at 75mm or higher film stock to produce the resolution past 4k..
You joined this forum just to post... ^^THAT?
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post #254 of 287 Old 02-11-2018, 07:04 AM
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nope I have been a member for many years under another alias though couldn't remember my login thus i'm signing in under my fb account at present given the fact I doubt my other account is accessible anymore given the email association is likely dead..

thus using real name at present

though my original point still stands largely both 4k as a bd standard is unachiveable for use as we are looking north of 100 inches and multiple pj's to produce the image in clarity.

we have had 4k in the HT field for the last 20-30 years sadly it has only been usable within the last 15-20 years..

looking at modern screens that can support 4k and hdr you are looking at a min standard of 55 inch though if you crisper details you are looking between 60-75inch or higher..

I think we're in stewing pot for 8-16k resolution though I suspect to physically use it in context of a medium today I think we maybe looking at a display port update before it comes out as wide acceptance of use and unless you already have the hardware to support it it will be no use to you and 4k looks crap on 32 inches..

Whilst I see the need for 8k capable products to watch the medium reality is not going to happen because we are already bottleneck on data for internet use and I think we are past what is going to usable on 10gb interface.. though reality is stuff can 8k can be shot today though it has to downgraded to 4k or lower to endup on youtube, net flicks, and other streaming platforms..

So at this stage I can't see the point of it because I not have the bandwidth within 1, 10gb lan nor 1gb wlan nor the the internet spec to support the streaming capacity of the 8k format and we are looking at a min spec of 10gb on bd standard the higher the bd disc capacity goes

whilst I watch youtube uon a 4k tv at 4k I already know what i'm watching is not actually a nativ 4k stream most of the contents are lower formats upscaled 4k,,
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post #255 of 287 Old 02-11-2018, 07:12 AM
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^^ That was a painful read. A little grammar and punctuation go a long way.

A lot was said, but none of your points meant a whole lot. What are you trying to say?

We don’t need 8K and we barely need 4K?

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I embrace new technology, whether is in improvements to current one or a new one. What I don't like is band aids to current technology and bogus marketing. I won't be upgrading until 2019-2020 so the more choices available the better. Although, I really don't see a benefit in 8k with screens below 65".

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I embrace new technology, whether is in improvements to current one or a new one. What I don't like is band aids to current technology and bogus marketing. I won't be upgrading until 2019-2020 so the more choices available the better. Although, I really don't see a benefit in 8k with screens below 65".
Have you seen a 4K panel display a 4K picture? What size was it? Was it calibrated?

I have on a 55inch. I've seen the benefit.
Is it a benefit (to you?) Although a 75Z9D is a sweet spot I'd want to dive deep in...I'll also have to wait.

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post #258 of 287 Old 02-11-2018, 09:19 AM
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Have you seen a 4K panel display a 4K picture? What size was it? Was it calibrated?

I have on a 55inch. I've seen the benefit.
Is it a benefit (to you?) Although a 75Z9D is a sweet spot I'd want to dive deep in...I'll also have to wait.

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Of course, I have a LG 4K Oled and a 79" Sony 4K tv. Yes I see a difference on both. I'm talking about 8k. A Bigger screen will benefit more.
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post #259 of 287 Old 02-11-2018, 09:36 AM
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There are 2 instances where 8K will shine.
40”+ nearfield display (think monitor/gaming etc).
I can easily resolve every 4K pixel on my 43” displays from 2-3 feet. This will be awesome with 8K. The GPU horsepower req’s, not so awesome.

75”+ displays 8K will be resolvable. 85”+ will be money. Not so sure about 65” and 8K. You’d have to be pretty close, but it’s certainly possible in more of a near-field viewing environment.
I think when 8K is fully matured and we have high quality, native, true 4320p content aplenty, it’s going to be a beautiful thing.
The displays will get better in the process, HDMI 2.1 eARC will be in full force. Good stuff.

They’re going to need to find a way to make 75 the affordable mainstream size though - where 65 is at now.

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post #260 of 287 Old 02-11-2018, 10:50 AM
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From what I've seen so far, in current technology we don't have the actual bandwidth to support 4k as a blue ray standard because there isn't enough bandwidth within the home network whether you 1gb, 10gb, HDMI specs as they stand can support the dvd 4k standard, though from from a BD standard you are looking a base of 2,5gb and up...

at this stage I already own 55 inch tv's and I can can game on it though I would say that even at 4k it is to small..

I also own a 32 inch sonic I will state this 4k gaming looks grand on it it though it will create to much eye strain to be a long period monitor..

At this stage anything claiming 4k or even 8k in the pc realm of gaming seem to be doing some trickery to produce 8k aliasing across 1.4 hdmi spec ports, though nothing on the hdmi 2.0-2.2 standards yet from what is being reported so far..

Whilst we might have camera gears within this realm of 8k use reality is it only looks better the bigger you go and i have to say i regret buying the 55's now wishing I had brought 60-75 inches..

noting: the original spec for 4k was 70-75 mm film, in omni presentations using more than 1 projector as display medium..

I wouldn't game on 4k between 32-49 inches ya just wasting the resolutions at that size at 8k it would be a waste of purchasing it..

we are likely another 5-10 years away before we see the market on anything lower than 55inch being completely shelved as a size..


by this time i know the market shift will see the shift in the larger tv's come down in prices where regular joe piubliics can buy it without hp financing being a require of purchase..
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post #261 of 287 Old 02-12-2018, 05:16 AM
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^^ Are you from 2013? Nonthing you said in that post is accurate. Have you been under a rock?

You made like 5 points that are completely unfounded and false. I’m confused. I think you’re trolling.

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post #262 of 287 Old 02-16-2018, 09:12 AM
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I'm game...sort of.
I can't see the pixels now on 4k unless I'm right
on top of the display. I suppose the advanced processing
power will be appreciated.
FWIW, now that I have been exposed to truly
excellent 3D, a return of that would appeal to me.
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post #263 of 287 Old 06-28-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CMRA View Post
I'm game...sort of.
I can't see the pixels now on 4k unless I'm right
on top of the display. I suppose the advanced processing
power will be appreciated.
FWIW, now that I have been exposed to truly
excellent 3D, a return of that would appeal to me.
New 8K News!

https://hdguru.com/content-ce-indust...8k-transition/
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post #264 of 287 Old 06-30-2018, 11:25 AM
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Sometimes I wonder if this is an AV forum or a Get off my lawn forum...lol

I am all for advancements, bring on 8k.

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post #265 of 287 Old 06-30-2018, 12:04 PM
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Sometimes I wonder if this is an AV forum or a Get off my lawn forum...lol

I am all for advancements, bring on 8k.
Well, let's see.

In 2019 you can buy an 8k set.
In 2020 you can buy an 8k set that has the content protection standard needed for actually watching any 8k content.
In 2021 you can buy a "forward compatible industry standard" TV - let's call it 8k Ready.
In 2022 there will be at least one format war (perhaps between the compression standards?). Half the manufacturers will go one way, half the other. Google and Amazon will be on opposite sides.
In 2023 you can actually watch a fair amount of compressed 8k content, not just tech demos. That is, if you have a sufficiently fast Internet connection.

In 2024, roll on 16k.

So that's my prediction for the industry roadmap from 2019-2024.
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post #266 of 287 Old 06-30-2018, 12:11 PM
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I am a projector guy and plan to be until OLED are 120in and roll up to fit in my velvet pit. So I really like the idea of pushing the pixel count even though 1080P is still fantastic. Maybe by the time 8k is out in PJs JVC will have a 4K Laser at about 10 grand. lol

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post #267 of 287 Old 06-30-2018, 06:16 PM
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Well, let's see.

In 2019 you can buy an 8k set.
In 2020 you can buy an 8k set that has the content protection standard needed for actually watching any 8k content.
In 2021 you can buy a "forward compatible industry standard" TV - let's call it 8k Ready.
In 2022 there will be at least one format war (perhaps between the compression standards?). Half the manufacturers will go one way, half the other. Google and Amazon will be on opposite sides.
In 2023 you can actually watch a fair amount of compressed 8k content, not just tech demos. That is, if you have a sufficiently fast Internet connection.

In 2024, roll on 16k.

So that's my prediction for the industry roadmap from 2019-2024.
When will 3D tv's come back?


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Last edited by Kenbar; 06-30-2018 at 06:21 PM.
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post #268 of 287 Old 07-01-2018, 12:29 AM
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When will 3D tv's come back?

My crystal ball is a little cloudy, but I think it is saying "5 years after this iteration of VR dies"
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post #269 of 287 Old 07-01-2018, 05:25 AM
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Seems that most are overlooking an additional advantage of 8k sets and that's 3D. Not that it might be glasses free, but that it should be able to offer 3D in 4K (more than you can say about 4K sets). Whether this will be the case on the first sets, we'll have to wait and see.
Maybe you are overlooking that 3D is kind of DEAD
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post #270 of 287 Old 07-01-2018, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by film113 View Post
Seems that most are overlooking an additional advantage of 8k sets and that's 3D. Not that it might be glasses free, but that it should be able to offer 3D in 4K (more than you can say about 4K sets). Whether this will be the case on the first sets, we'll have to wait and see.
Indeed. True passive 4K 3D would be totally stunning. Actually would be the best reason to want to spend $$$$ on an 8K set. But we'll probably have to wait for society to become more advanced. For now they seem happy with mono vision...despite having two eyes. And it's easier for the film makers and tv manufactures who had such a hard time getting it right.

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