Samsung Launches 2018 QLED and 4K TVs - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 606 Old 03-08-2018, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Glammer19 View Post
I wonder why Amazon has removed all of the 2018 QLED listings
Listed but None in stock yesterday

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post #212 of 606 Old 03-08-2018, 04:11 PM
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We'll see, but I'm not editing my post as the set listed on Best Buy is the 2018 model.
It was kind of easy to tell from the stand alone

The 2018 one looks just like

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post #213 of 606 Old 03-08-2018, 05:19 PM
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Do we have the number of LD zones in the 2018 q9f and q8f? If they are in the hundreds only and not above a thousand, i dont think that will beat the z9d , the 65 z9d has 600+ zones and good backlight control. Though if they have hundreds, that would still deliver deep blacks and be a lot better from their 2017 models. I would like to see comparison reviews done on the samsung flagship fald's with the z9d.
You are correct, will be interesting to see how many zones they have. I am purely guessing, but by the price point of the Samsung 75Q9FN at MSRP I am guessing it is more competing with the XBR-75X940E then the Z9D
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post #214 of 606 Old 03-08-2018, 06:19 PM
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The js9500 panel native contrast was also like half of that of the vizio, which makes a massive difference.

I wonder if the new design helps DSE. That's the only thing I hate about the z9d, the dse from the fald are atrocious.

My old js9500 didn't have any problems with dse or banding, actually had 2. Neither did. Just had ****ty blooming. I'm pretty impressed with the q9f. I *may* cop one next month.

Just trying to figure out how well Apple TV converts Dolby vision to hdr 10 and how well the 2018 q9 fakes dynamic metadata from static sources.

It's down to a c8 or q9...

it is certainly true that a high native contrast level can "help" but the panel and zone algorithm and plate diffusers will play a larger role. I believe the Z9D has a very average native contrast ratio, but has great technology to help with those blacks. pretty much everything on the JS9500 was bad and even its 150 zones really couldn't help. the ks9800 has the same 150 zones but the blacks are significantly better despite being 500 nits brighter too.

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post #215 of 606 Old 03-08-2018, 06:38 PM
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Alright heres a great article (even though its from January), that summarizes the exact changes that Samsung is said to have made in the panel of their new Qled tvs (Q9 most specifically). Even though the Q9 at ces was a prototype, it seems that prototype has made it into production unlike last year when they were changed just before launch because of some production issues. Perhaps Mark can confirm if the retail units coming out now are based on the prototype in the private room at CES.



https://www.tomsguide.com/us/samsung...ews-26367.html


Better Filters for Better Black Levels

The first change is what Samsung is calling Black Enhanced Q Contrast. Special filtering has allowed a significant improvement in black levels, generally considered one of QLED's most significant weaknesses. It does so by reducing unwanted glow in dark colors and shadows, producing what comes very close to an OLED-level true black.

The anti-blooming technology uses a honeycomb-like nanoscale filter on top of the LCD pixels to provide appropriate brightness for each pixel itself while blocking unwanted illumination from surrounding pixel backlight. The result is not only improved black light and a reduction of the flaring and halos seen on current generation QLED panels.

It also provides the unexpected benefit of dramatically reducing reflection on the panel itself. Combined with an anti-reflective layer on the topmost layer of the panel, reflectivity is dropped well below that of other OLED and LCD displays. Instead of the black-mirror effect of seeing your own reflection on a display that is powered down, or just plain dark colors, you merely get a truer, almost reflectionless representation of the picture as presented by the original source.

Samsung calls it Ultra Black Elite, and it's an aspect of the TV viewing experience that I hadn't realized needed much improvement. But seeing the difference with my own eyes drove home how much better a TV looks with little to no reflection.



Micro-Lenses for Wider Viewing Angles

Another new layer within the QLED display is made up of micro-lenses that work in tandem with the filter to reduce unwanted glow from surrounding backlight. The micro-lens layer takes the filtered image and then puts it out with extra-wide viewing angles.
While the filter alone would actually result in narrower viewing angles if used alone, the addition of the micro-lens layer improves the angle beyond that of current QLED displays. With the new micro-lens technology in place viewing angles approach that of an IPS panel, but without the light leakage and elevated black levels seen on traditional IPS LCD displays.



Not Quite Perfect, But Closer

While the new displays show marked improvement over first generation QLED, and dramatically narrow the gap with premium OLED displays, there are still some faults. The most significant of these is still the existence of unwanted flaring and halos around bright objects when displayed on dark backgrounds. Improvements to the display technology can reduce such unwanted backlighting, but cannot yet eliminate it entirely.

That said, the improvements are astonishing, and while OLED still has a slight edge in picture quality, the difference is more academic than it has been in the past.
(other reports said that from normal viewing distancts, the halos were so small you couldn't see them, until you walked up really close to the tv to check it out)

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Im pretty set on getting a 65" C7 LG OLED for my next living room tv but now Im interested in the Q8F and Q9F QLEDs with FALD. I wonder how many zones the Q8F and Q9F have? Looking forward to reading lots of reviews.
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post #217 of 606 Old 03-08-2018, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Alright heres a great article (even though its from January), that summarizes the exact changes that Samsung is said to have made in the panel of their new Qled tvs (Q9 most specifically). Even though the Q9 at ces was a prototype, it seems that prototype has made it into production unlike last year when they were changed just before launch because of some production issues. Perhaps Mark can confirm if the retail units coming out now are based on the prototype in the private room at CES.



https://www.tomsguide.com/us/samsung...ews-26367.html


Better Filters for Better Black Levels

The first change is what Samsung is calling Black Enhanced Q Contrast. Special filtering has allowed a significant improvement in black levels, generally considered one of QLED's most significant weaknesses. It does so by reducing unwanted glow in dark colors and shadows, producing what comes very close to an OLED-level true black.

The anti-blooming technology uses a honeycomb-like nanoscale filter on top of the LCD pixels to provide appropriate brightness for each pixel itself while blocking unwanted illumination from surrounding pixel backlight. The result is not only improved black light and a reduction of the flaring and halos seen on current generation QLED panels.

It also provides the unexpected benefit of dramatically reducing reflection on the panel itself. Combined with an anti-reflective layer on the topmost layer of the panel, reflectivity is dropped well below that of other OLED and LCD displays. Instead of the black-mirror effect of seeing your own reflection on a display that is powered down, or just plain dark colors, you merely get a truer, almost reflectionless representation of the picture as presented by the original source.

Samsung calls it Ultra Black Elite, and it's an aspect of the TV viewing experience that I hadn't realized needed much improvement. But seeing the difference with my own eyes drove home how much better a TV looks with little to no reflection.



Micro-Lenses for Wider Viewing Angles

Another new layer within the QLED display is made up of micro-lenses that work in tandem with the filter to reduce unwanted glow from surrounding backlight. The micro-lens layer takes the filtered image and then puts it out with extra-wide viewing angles.
While the filter alone would actually result in narrower viewing angles if used alone, the addition of the micro-lens layer improves the angle beyond that of current QLED displays. With the new micro-lens technology in place viewing angles approach that of an IPS panel, but without the light leakage and elevated black levels seen on traditional IPS LCD displays.



Not Quite Perfect, But Closer

While the new displays show marked improvement over first generation QLED, and dramatically narrow the gap with premium OLED displays, there are still some faults. The most significant of these is still the existence of unwanted flaring and halos around bright objects when displayed on dark backgrounds. Improvements to the display technology can reduce such unwanted backlighting, but cannot yet eliminate it entirely.

That said, the improvements are astonishing, and while OLED still has a slight edge in picture quality, the difference is more academic than it has been in the past.
(other reports said that from normal viewing distancts, the halos were so small you couldn't see them, until you walked up really close to the tv to check it out)

Sounds kind of like a matte screen with a bit of magic in it. Excited for reviews.
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post #218 of 606 Old 03-08-2018, 08:57 PM
 
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Sounds kind of like a matte screen with a bit of magic in it. Excited for reviews.
Yup I called it! They found away to filter the light...They stop leakage to adjacent Pixel Via honeycomb. I hope I get to see them later Today.. Will post my reactions if I do!
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post #219 of 606 Old 03-08-2018, 09:04 PM
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Yup I called it! They found away to filter the light...They stop leakage to adjacent Pixel Via honeycomb. I hope I get to see them later Today.. Will post my reactions if I do!

Try to snap some pictures and videos if you can as well.
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post #220 of 606 Old 03-08-2018, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Alright heres a great article (even though its from January), that summarizes the exact changes that Samsung is said to have made in the panel of their new Qled tvs (Q9 most specifically). Even though the Q9 at ces was a prototype, it seems that prototype has made it into production unlike last year when they were changed just before launch because of some production issues. Perhaps Mark can confirm if the retail units coming out now are based on the prototype in the private room at CES.
I'll know for sure next week when I get one, but looks like what ships is what was shown as far as the panel performance goes.

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Sounds kind of like a matte screen with a bit of magic in it. Excited for reviews.
I'll post the unboxing as soon as I get it and from there on it's hands-on.
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post #221 of 606 Old 03-08-2018, 09:14 PM
 
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Im pretty set on getting a 65" C7 LG OLED for my next living room tv but now Im interested in the Q8F and Q9F QLEDs with FALD. I wonder how many zones the Q8F and Q9F have? Looking forward to reading lots of reviews.
So was I till I saw the q9 specs and what it can bring to the table ..now I'm waiting for reviews to see which of the two I choose
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post #222 of 606 Old 03-08-2018, 10:02 PM
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Yup I called it! They found away to filter the light...They stop leakage to adjacent Pixel Via honeycomb. I hope I get to see them later Today.. Will post my reactions if I do!
Nice I hope ya get to!

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I'll know for sure next week when I get one, but looks like what ships is what was shown as far as the panel performance goes.

Cool glad to know you'll be reviewing one.



I'll post the unboxing as soon as I get it and from there on it's hands-on.
Nice looking forward to it.

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So was I till I saw the q9 specs and what it can bring to the table ..now I'm waiting for reviews to see which of the two I choose
Sounds like we are in the same boat. Definitely going to do plenty of research before I commit.

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post #223 of 606 Old 03-08-2018, 11:52 PM
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Up close and personal with the new 1 connect cable and box




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post #224 of 606 Old 03-09-2018, 12:06 AM
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Must watch video of the Q9 playing its demos. Hard to discern what's camera induced blooming and what isnt. But overall, the picture quality looks pretty stunning for an LCD and the viewing angles look pretty solid too.


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post #225 of 606 Old 03-09-2018, 12:10 AM
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Here's the Q7 with insane colors and again very good viewing angles.. Appears to hold saturation completely as this guy steps to the side.


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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I'll know for sure next week when I get one, but looks like what ships is what was shown as far as the panel performance goes.



I'll post the unboxing as soon as I get it and from there on it's hands-on.
Mark.
Would you ask if color filters been replaced with QD filters,please,thanks.
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post #227 of 606 Old 03-09-2018, 02:14 AM
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Wow, really impressed for the price and specs of the Q9F! It looks like a great TV! If the reviews are amazing this will be great couple years for TV's, this will push everyone's quality bar. Speaking of Quality bar, I really hope its not all hype, and the QC is much improved. I went through 6 Samsung TV's in 2017. Can't wait for rtings to do their thing.

I am sure HDR 10 + will be excellent, however, I really am impressed with DV when done right, and in the streaming world it seems like everything is coming out in DV.

Love the competition, now Sony really has a reason to release Z9F. If edge viewing is as they state that alone will push me to adopt it.

Spoiler!
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post #228 of 606 Old 03-09-2018, 04:15 AM
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Here's the Q7 with insane colors and again very good viewing angles.. Appears to hold saturation completely as this guy steps to the side.

Looks good
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Also a big improvement for 2018 is the fiber optic cable that connects to the one connect box. I was looking at Samsung’s user support forum and there are like hundreds of complaints about bad and intermittent fiber optic cables. Several people reported it just spontaneously went bad and that after Samsung sent a new cable the tv was OK. Or people reversed the cable and then it worked. The new cable has a more secure tv side attachment, and appears thicker and more robust. It also has to carry power to the tv. Although it does look too small to carry enough current. But I assume Samsung’s engineers have accounted for this as it is basic electrical engineering 101 (I know, I took this course many years ago).

Samsung appears to be good about warranty replacements of the cable or OCB. In any case a new cable or OCB from Samsung under warranty is easy and they don’t have to ship you a whole new tv.
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post #230 of 606 Old 03-09-2018, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Reddig View Post
Im pretty set on getting a 65" C7 LG OLED for my next living room tv but now Im interested in the Q8F and Q9F QLEDs with FALD. I wonder how many zones the Q8F and Q9F have? Looking forward to reading lots of reviews.
I do not think the Q8 will compare to OLED. Lets say for a moment that the Q9 is as good as OLED, maybe 5 or 10% better, which I doubt would be the case but you never know right? Lets look at the pricing on the street now, the answer becomes very clear very fast. Also there are many who would not even consider buying a set unless it was Dolby Vision.
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Cnet on the new Samsung TV's

Nothing we don't know by now ofc.


https://www.cnet.com/news/samsung-ql...roved-picture/

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I do not think the Q8 will compare to OLED. Lets say for a moment that the Q9 is as good as OLED, maybe 5 or 10% better, which I doubt would be the case but you never know right? Lets look at the pricing on the street now, the answer becomes very clear very fast. Also there are many who would not even consider buying a set unless it was Dolby Vision.
I think the Q8 will compete with Sony's X900F, while the Q9 Compete's with OLED and the 940E/Z9D. As for thoses who nic-pick HDR formats, about 80% of consumers don't really understand what HDR is or even care, it's the 20% of us here that nic-pick the format, and personally I believe 1 single format will become the standard, and by the time that happens I'll be shopping for another new TV.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
I do not think the Q8 will compare to OLED. Lets say for a moment that the Q9 is as good as OLED, maybe 5 or 10% better, which I doubt would be the case but you never know right? Lets look at the pricing on the street now, the answer becomes very clear very fast. Also there are many who would not even consider buying a set unless it was Dolby Vision.
I think the Q8 will compete with Sony's X900F, while the Q9 Compete's with OLED and the 940E/Z9D. As for thoses who nic-pick HDR formats, about 80% of consumers don't really understand what HDR is or even care, it's the 20% of us here that nic-pick the format, and personally I believe 1 single format will become the standard, and by the time that happens I'll be shopping for another new TV. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG]
And 90% of those 80% who don't care won't be spending $3,000+ on a TV.

Those that do typically do a quick Google review search and see pros and cons with a bolded con "no premium Dolby vision support which is included in all competitors 2018 models and at lesser prices"

That being said, I'm leaning towards a q9 because I think with all the extra engineering effort gone into it this year I think it may turn out to be something special and worth the loss of DV in the interim.
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post #234 of 606 Old 03-09-2018, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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And 90% of those 80% who don't care won't be spending $3,000+ on a TV.

Those that do typically do a quick Google review search and see pros and cons with a bolded con "no premium Dolby vision support which is included in all competitors 2018 models and at lesser prices"

That being said, I'm leaning towards a q9 because I think with all the extra engineering effort gone into it this year I think it may turn out to be something special and worth the loss of DV in the interim.
Something people should factor into the equation is this: Dynamic metadata is technically just a crutch, if a TV can show HDR10 properly (without the need for tonemapping) and with full DCI/P3 color to begin with, then Dolby Vision and HDR10+ essentially "melt away" as adapting the content to a TV's limitations becomes unnecessary. It's actually quite reasonable to say that this should be the goal. With content mastered to 1000 nits, it's possible TVs that can fully deliver on that promise will show up soon. With 4000 nit mastering it may be a while but not too long.

And frankly, nothing I've seen from any display ever has looked as real as the 10,000-nit prototype Sony showed at CES, which was designed to "fully" render what HDR10 is technically capable of delivering.

We've got a long way to go before we get to a point where SDR arrived a few years back, when achieving full BT.709 coverage became commonplace. Until then some sort of compensation is needed. The question is if it needs to be dynamic metadata that's in the content, or if an algorithm is enough to get the job done with regular HDR10 content and TVs that need to tonemap.

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post #235 of 606 Old 03-09-2018, 07:48 AM
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That being said, I'm leaning towards a q9 because I think with all the extra engineering effort gone into it this year I think it may turn out to be something special and worth the loss of DV in the interim.
I agree completely!
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post #236 of 606 Old 03-09-2018, 08:03 AM
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Never mind - it's my age of senility and lack of vision (pun intended)!
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post #237 of 606 Old 03-09-2018, 08:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
And 90% of those 80% who don't care won't be spending $3,000+ on a TV.

Those that do typically do a quick Google review search and see pros and cons with a bolded con "no premium Dolby vision support which is included in all competitors 2018 models and at lesser prices"

That being said, I'm leaning towards a q9 because I think with all the extra engineering effort gone into it this year I think it may turn out to be something special and worth the loss of DV in the interim.
Something people should factor into the equation is this: Dynamic metadata is technically just a crutch, if a TV can show HDR10 properly (without the need for tonemapping) and with full DCI/P3 color to begin with, then Dolby Vision and HDR10+ essentially "melt away" as adapting the content to a TV's limitations becomes unnecessary. It's actually quite reasonable to say that this should be the goal. With content mastered to 1000 nits, it's possible TVs that can fully deliver on that promise will show up soon. With 4000 nit mastering it may be a while but not too long.

And frankly, nothing I've seen from any display ever has looked as real as the 10,000-nit prototype Sony showed at CES, which was designed to "fully" render what HDR10 is technically capable of delivering.

We've got a long way to go before we get to a point where SDR arrived a few years back, when achieving full BT.709 coverage became commonplace. Until then some sort of compensation is needed. The question is if it needs to be dynamic metadata that's in the content, or if an algorithm is enough to get the job done with regular HDR10 content and TVs that need to tonemap.
I wouldn't say dynamic metadata is a crutch at all, the hardware is - dynamic metadata a clever way of back/future proofing content to work on existing units that aren't going to be as capable as those in the future.

While you're right in what you're saying about dynamic metadata wouldn't need to exist if full spec hdr tvs existed, they dont, and won't for a while. Dynamic metadata is a great solution for letting weaker current displays still look good, even the new q9 is stuck at "only" 2,000 nits.
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post #238 of 606 Old 03-09-2018, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
I wouldn't say dynamic metadata is a crutch at all, the hardware is - dynamic metadata a clever way of back/future proofing content to work on existing units that aren't going to be as capable as those in the future.

While you're right in what you're saying about dynamic metadata wouldn't need to exist if full spec hdr tvs existed, they dont, and won't for a while. Dynamic metadata is a great solution for letting weaker current displays still look good, even the new q9 is stuck at "only" 2,000 nits.
Okay, I like your way of putting it, I'll go with that.

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post #239 of 606 Old 03-09-2018, 09:23 AM
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In looking at the above videos on the "one connect box" I noticed that it has 3 USB ports on the side of the unit. One is marked HDD as well. What is the usage of these ports? Can one assume: photos/Firmware updates and such? What about the one that says HDD?
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post #240 of 606 Old 03-09-2018, 09:52 AM
 
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I have a ks8500 and at times it gets so bright it hurts eyes.. Can you imagine 10000 nits.. you need glasses lol
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