2018 Samsung Q9FN ''Owners thread'' ''No price talk'' - Page 268 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8011 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by GmdVT View Post
even input lag doesn't seem much different but I have a lot of things turned off, like contrast enhance, digital clean view whatever, sharpness at 0, etc, etc so maybe the processing delay is way down
Yeah would be nice to know the different readings for the different modes.

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post #8012 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 11:00 AM
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Hey there. First off, a big thank you to this community for educating us over the years on all manner audio and visual.

We just bought a 65" Q9FN and appeared to have won the panel lottery. We love almost everything about this TV.

Except for the built-in audio.

We noticed it was a bit tinny and had to be set rather high (like 35-70 depending on mode) compared to our last Samsung, which admittedly is 4 inches deep (allowing for bigger speakers) and has a woofer. Anyways, we figured that was as good as the in-unit audio was going to be. We have an AVR with Klipsch speakers all around when we want to hear really good audio.

The problem arises when the system warms up. After it's been on for hours, the built-in audio levels drop dramatically. After watching a football game the other day (sorry Bama), we had to set the volume to 100 just to hear it in standard mode. We had to go to 70 in optimized mode (the most temperature stable mode), and amplified mode sounded terrible at any setting. The next morning, with a cool OCB and TV, the unit was back to its tinny self, with normal settings being std: 70, opt: 45 and amp: 40. What sound levels are you guys using? This problem is repeatable. Please please please tell me Samsung didn't use cheap (non heat stable) capacitors on this unit too.

The OCB has its own shelf in the rack and has good airflow front and back. It never gets hot to the touch, showing 102 on the IR gun. Unplugging and replugging the cord had no effect.

So we seem to have a choice:
1. We can play the panel lottery again and get a whole new system.
2. Contact Samsung and see if a new OCB solves the problem.
3. Wait till the 2019s come out and hope their speakers are better.

Thoughts?

Another item. We have a ton of video files. The TV plays most of them very well, but it falls down passing DTS sound (we knew that going in) and some of the MP4 files we've made from various adventures aren't liked by the TV. I see there are various programs out there to massage video files. Which one is everyone using? The more I Google search, the more Wondershare comes up. Wondershare even has a Samsung-specific save mode to ensure files play--though likely some sort of lowest common denominator kind of deal.

Thanks
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post #8013 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 11:18 AM
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4. Get the Samsung N950 Soundbar and live happily ever after.
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post #8014 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 11:55 AM
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Has anyone added bias lighting to their Q9 that is hung with the no-gap wall mount? I am wondering if there is enough room?
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post #8015 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Janey View Post
Has anyone added bias lighting to their Q9 that is hung with the no-gap wall mount? I am wondering if there is enough room?
Where are you going to plug it in?

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post #8016 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 11:59 AM
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Where are you going to plug it in?

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To the usb on the back.

Ooh. Right. Dangit. My plans are foiled yet again. There is no USB on the back, is there...!
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post #8017 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 12:00 PM
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To the usb on the back.



Ooh. Right. Dangit. My plans are foiled yet again. There is no USB on the back, is there...!
Nope... OCB has it

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post #8018 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
4. Get the Samsung N950 Soundbar and live happily ever after.
We already have a couple thousand invested in audio that works just fine. Just looking to make the TV’s audio work for when we don’t need the premium sound—and the 100 watts or so of heat that comes with it.
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post #8019 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy View Post
Hey there. First off, a big thank you to this community for educating us over the years on all manner audio and visual.

We just bought a 65" Q9FN and appeared to have won the panel lottery. We love almost everything about this TV.

Except for the built-in audio.

We noticed it was a bit tinny and had to be set rather high (like 35-70 depending on mode) compared to our last Samsung, which admittedly is 4 inches deep (allowing for bigger speakers) and has a woofer. Anyways, we figured that was as good as the in-unit audio was going to be. We have an AVR with Klipsch speakers all around when we want to hear really good audio.

The problem arises when the system warms up. After it's been on for hours, the built-in audio levels drop dramatically. After watching a football game the other day (sorry Bama), we had to set the volume to 100 just to hear it in standard mode. We had to go to 70 in optimized mode (the most temperature stable mode), and amplified mode sounded terrible at any setting. The next morning, with a cool OCB and TV, the unit was back to its tinny self, with normal settings being std: 70, opt: 45 and amp: 40. What sound levels are you guys using? This problem is repeatable. Please please please tell me Samsung didn't use cheap (non heat stable) capacitors on this unit too.

The OCB has its own shelf in the rack and has good airflow front and back. It never gets hot to the touch, showing 102 on the IR gun. Unplugging and replugging the cord had no effect.

So we seem to have a choice:
1. We can play the panel lottery again and get a whole new system.
2. Contact Samsung and see if a new OCB solves the problem.
3. Wait till the 2019s come out and hope their speakers are better.

Thoughts?

Another item. We have a ton of video files. The TV plays most of them very well, but it falls down passing DTS sound (we knew that going in) and some of the MP4 files we've made from various adventures aren't liked by the TV. I see there are various programs out there to massage video files. Which one is everyone using? The more I Google search, the more Wondershare comes up. Wondershare even has a Samsung-specific save mode to ensure files play--though likely some sort of lowest common denominator kind of deal.

Thanks
I'd call Samsung and have them check the sound under warranty. If you've ever seen these TVs opened up in the back, the speakers are very modular and easy to replace.

You could even specify that you're very happy with the panel and don't want that part replaced. Worst case scenario they could replace the motherboard, speakers and oneconnect box and the panel would still be the same.

If all else fails, you could just use the AVR 100% of the time if the speakers don't work properly.
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post #8020 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by UnfoldingSquid View Post
I'd call Samsung and have them check the sound under warranty. If you've ever seen these TVs opened up in the back, the speakers are very modular and easy to replace.



You could even specify that you're very happy with the panel and don't want that part replaced. Worst case scenario they could replace the motherboard, speakers and oneconnect box and the panel would still be the same.



If all else fails, you could just use the AVR 100% of the time if the speakers don't work properly.
Even through the AVR the sound isn't as good as using another source

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post #8021 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Boatguy View Post
We already have a couple thousand invested in audio that works just fine. Just looking to make the TV’s audio work for when we don’t need the premium sound—and the 100 watts or so of heat that comes with it.


If Samsung won't replace only the ocb, you have the option of buying a new ocb out of pocket if it's worth keeping the original tv with its good uniformity.
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post #8022 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 04:42 PM
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Just switched from a 75Z9D to a 75Q9FN after a prolonged and terrible experience with Sony. Love the new set. The two TVs don't even feel like they're in the same league and I can't believe RTings has their scores so tight. Only thing I dislike is how far off the out-of-the-box calibration is; having an ISF calibration done in a few more weeks of breaking it in. Can anyone who's had their set calibrated comment on the difference? RTings does show the pre-cal levels to be pretty fubar so I'm expecting this'll sort itself out.
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post #8023 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Archivist View Post
Just switched from a 75Z9D to a 75Q9FN after a prolonged and terrible experience with Sony. Love the new set. The two TVs don't even feel like they're in the same league and I can't believe RTings has their scores so tight. Only thing I dislike is how far off the out-of-the-box calibration is; having an ISF calibration done in a few more weeks of breaking it in. Can anyone who's had their set calibrated comment on the difference? RTings does show the pre-cal levels to be pretty fubar so I'm expecting this'll sort itself out.
Can you shed more light on how you feel Q9FN is in a different league than Z9D? People here compare the 2 very favorably it seems.
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post #8024 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Archivist View Post
Just switched from a 75Z9D to a 75Q9FN after a prolonged and terrible experience with Sony. Love the new set. The two TVs don't even feel like they're in the same league and I can't believe RTings has their scores so tight. Only thing I dislike is how far off the out-of-the-box calibration is; having an ISF calibration done in a few more weeks of breaking it in. Can anyone who's had their set calibrated comment on the difference? RTings does show the pre-cal levels to be pretty fubar so I'm expecting this'll sort itself out.
The one thing I've found in calibrating is that the > 85% luminances are relatively too bright and unable to be properly tamed when you optimize the lower luminances. I use 75% saturation with 85% luminance to calibrate Gamut Saturation for a good-looking compromise and the over-bright high luminances are handled nicely by the TV with no high luminance crush.
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post #8025 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Archivist View Post
Just switched from a 75Z9D to a 75Q9FN after a prolonged and terrible experience with Sony. Love the new set. The two TVs don't even feel like they're in the same league and I can't believe RTings has their scores so tight. Only thing I dislike is how far off the out-of-the-box calibration is; having an ISF calibration done in a few more weeks of breaking it in. Can anyone who's had their set calibrated comment on the difference? RTings does show the pre-cal levels to be pretty fubar so I'm expecting this'll sort itself out.
Your experiences are vastly different from other Z9D owners in that thread. You were clearly having issues in transit with whoever is shipping to you your Sony's. I cannot say why you kept getting damaged units - but the 9QFN is not perfect as you will see in this thread either.
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post #8026 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 05:45 PM
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Can you shed more light on how you feel Q9FN is in a different league than Z9D? People here compare the 2 very favorably it seems.
I find they're on par in a number of areas but with the Q9FN blowing the Z9D out of the water (within the relative, narrow scope of high-end/flagship models) in terms of motion, UI, black levels/uniformity, contrast, and build quality. Z9D's pre-cal picture destroys that of the Q9FN but I'd hope one spending this kinda money on a set is getting a professional calibration anyways, so I don't really mind that.

I went through 5-6 Z9Ds due to faulty hardware and the motion bothered me on every set. Also, the motion interpolation was consistently and especially objectionable. I'm pretty sensitive to motion issues and the Q9FN hasn't bothered me. That's not to say its motion's 100% perfect for all content all the time (no set is) but it's close enough that I'm pretty darn happy.

I can't think of anyway to put it other than to state that the Android OS on the Z9D is bloody terrible. It's really, really bad. The voice recognition is passable and it's nice that voice is integrated with Netflix but it doesn't make up for the overall travesty that is the UI. RTings' review of its smart features was extremely generous IMO; I get it's weighted in a screwy way but it doesn't deserve to be at all close. It lags, it's slow, it's clunky. Even with everything possible turned down in the Developer Settings it still ran like a brick $#^@ house. It drove me more and more insane as time went on. In comparison, the Q9FN's UI is smooth, fast, and responsive. Downside is that voice isn't integrated with Netflix so you can't say, for example, "Play 'You' on Netflix" like you could on the Z9D but you can still open Netflix and do everything else with the set you'd want with it. I also have no idea what RTings is classifying as ads on the Q9FN. Maybe there used to be some and an update removed them before I bought my set but there's really nothing like that that I can see.

As for build quality, the Z9D has several areas on the base of the set with ~1cm wide open slats covering areas several inches wide. If you look up into the slats, you can see the backlight bright as day through ~cm wide holes leading to the screen. Doesn't have an effect on viewing but it does turn the set into an extremely expensive bug trap. We clean the house top to bottom once a week and the set is in a home theater without any plants/biological material anywhere near it and I had a bug crawl in and die between the screen and the backpanel. Luckily for me, this happened on a set that was already being RMA'd for a faulty HDMI port but I still can't believe it happened. This was the first thing I checked for on the Q9FN and, logically, there's nothing like that I can see. Is this a huge deal? Maybe not... unless it happens... but the fact it can happen on a flagship model blows my mind and I was never comfortable after that, constantly stressing that something was going to fly in.

I loved the picture on the Z9D and wouldn't have even considered the Q9FN originally because of all the Sony hype. In the end, I'm glad for my bad luck as I feel like the Q9FN is on par or slightly better in most areas, considerably better in a few areas that are very important to me, and overall it runs and is built like a much better product without any "wtf were they thinking" aspects to it.

Last thing I can think of: The Q9FN seemed to have much more responsible packaging and seemed to have more responsible regional stocking of 75" sets. With Sony, they drove every set from California to Ontario then west to Manitoba (~6000km and a big temperature swing) which I'm guessing was a factor in them arriving with issues every time. It also took 2-4 weeks every time. When the last set arrived shattered I went to Best Buy and had a 75Q9FN installed within a few days.
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post #8027 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
The one thing I've found in calibrating is that the > 85% luminances are relatively too bright and unable to be properly tamed when you optimize the lower luminances. I use 75% saturation with 85% luminance to calibrate Gamut Saturation for a good-looking compromise and the over-bright high luminances are handled nicely by the TV with no high luminance crush.
Awesome advice, thanks. I was worried about that sort of thing.
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post #8028 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 06:10 PM
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The horrible PWM flickering, flash-lighting, audio/video sync issues, motion issues, and more completely ruined the image. It was returned the next day, where it joined the other open-box Q9's in the store.
As far as I can understand when Motion Plus is enabled (even in 0 position) Tv backlight flickers at 120Hz? Is it really so?
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post #8029 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 06:14 PM
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As far as I can understand when Motion Plus is enabled (even in 0 position) Tv backlight flickers at 120Hz? Is it really so?
There is more flickering on Samsung's compared to Sony's. There is at any backlight setting flicker on Samsungs, not just with Motion Plus. So people more sensitive to that, which there are many, will have probably an issue with Samsung's and flicker.
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post #8030 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 06:46 PM
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There is more flickering on Samsung's compared to Sony's. There is at any backlight setting flicker on Samsungs, not just with Motion Plus. So people more sensitive to that, which there are many, will have probably an issue with Samsung's and flicker.
I assume you refer to game mode, as I get absolutely no flickering in Movie or CAL modes. You should be specific otherwise it's extremely misleading.

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post #8031 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 06:59 PM
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I have read Rtings test:

Quote:
When in 'Game' or 'Standard' mode, or when 'Auto Motion Plus' is enabled, the backlight changes to a more noticeable 120 Hz flicker.
Does it mean that enabling Motion Plus in any mode (including Movie mode) will lead to PWM flickering at 120Hz?
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post #8032 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dimon.Zorg View Post
I have read Rtings test:



Does it mean that enabling Motion Plus in any mode (including Movie mode) will lead to PWM flickering at 120Hz?
Yes, in those modes it will be more noticeable. Movie mode not so much.

Here is the full text:

Quote:
The Samsung Q9 uses PWM to dim the backlight, and it flickers regardless of backlight setting. Similar to the Q8FN, the backlight flicker changes depending on settings. In 'Movie' mode it flickers at 480 Hz which should not be noticeable to most people and doesn't cause any motion duplication.
When in 'Game' or 'Standard' mode, or when 'Auto Motion Plus' is enabled, the backlight changes to a more noticeable 120 Hz flicker.
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post #8033 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 07:07 PM
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I like Q9 but i'm sensitive to PWM flickering. It sucks Why does Samsung uses so low backlight freaquency in high end TV model?
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post #8034 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 07:12 PM
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I like Q9 but i'm sensitive to PWM flickering. It sucks Why does Samsung uses so low backlight freaquency in high end TV model?
They are doing it to help reduce blur. Its just their preference. I personally would take more blur.
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post #8035 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 07:13 PM
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I like Q9 but i'm sensitive to PWM flickering. It sucks Why does Samsung uses so low backlight freaquency in high end TV model?
You'd only see flicker with game mode BFI. Automotion is fine. TBH I don't understand why anyone uses game mode on any set.
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You'd only see flicker with game mode BFI. Automotion is fine. TBH I don't understand why anyone uses game mode on any set.
Because gamers don't want 60-70ms of input lag?
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post #8037 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 07:21 PM
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Because gamers don't want 60-70ms of input lag?
Placebo imo. I'm a hardcore gamer and even in FPS and fighting games it doesn't really affect performance at a high level of play. At an extreme competitive level, if someone's actually concerned about it, they shouldn't be playing on a TV display at all tbh. Plus BFI pwns the overall picture so much I feel it kinda defeats the purpose.
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post #8038 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Archivist View Post
You'd only see flicker with game mode BFI. Automotion is fine. TBH I don't understand why anyone uses game mode on any set.
Judging by RTings test flickering will be in any mode. When AutoMotion Plus is enabled backlight flickers at 120Hz in ANY mode. BFI mode (LED Clear motion) makes backlight flickering at 60Hz.
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post #8039 of 11162 Old 01-11-2019, 07:47 PM
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Judging by RTings test flickering will be in any mode. When AutoMotion Plus is enabled backlight flickers at 120Hz in ANY mode. BFI mode (LED Clear motion) makes backlight flickering at 60Hz.
That's fair and I guess it depends on your viewing conditions as well, outside of HDR. I've always considered myself pretty sensitive to flicker but don't notice any in HDR with the backlight cranked. I feel like this is something people could check for themselves in person before they buy.

Edit: The game mode flicker is screwy and different. It's just a slightly more obnoxious BFI, really. Outside of game mode, I'd argue it'd be extremely rare for anyone to be able to perceive flicker or the set would have never gone to market in the first place. I'd also argue anyone seeing flicker on a Q9FN with any semblance of normal use/view possesses a sensitivity with which they'll perceive flicker on essentially any current TV at some point under the same conditions. Gotta factor in the frequency of the cycle we're looking at on the RTings graph as well.

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post #8040 of 11162 Old 01-12-2019, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwb1 View Post
Because gamers don't want 60-70ms of input lag?


And freesync?


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