2018 Samsung Q9FN ''Owners thread'' ''No price talk'' - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:13 PM
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How's the dse compared to the z9?
DSE is slightly less I would say then my best Z9 out of the 6 I have had. I just don’t think you get away from it on these.
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post #62 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:19 PM
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I have not messed with the settings much. That was max backlight and no contrast enhancer. Off angle the blacks don’t hold up as promised nor did I think they would. Colors stay good but you get the blooming for sure.
Z9 was also maxed out on brightness as well.
Haven’t checked zone count. Still trying to figure out settings.

Basically what I was expecting too. IPS type viewing angles but not perfect. When you do a zone count you want the settings maxed out including local dimming since it makes blooming more noticeable.

Any consensus yet on overall blacks vs the Z9D?
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post #63 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
How's the dse compared to the z9?
DSE is slightly less I would say then my best Z9 out of the 6 I have had. I just don’t think you get away from it on these.
Is it just mild dse or dse bad enough that you can see the grid array behind the screen?
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post #64 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:21 PM
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Is it just mild dse or dse bad enough that you can see the grid array behind the screen?
Mild. I do not see the grid at all.
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post #65 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:21 PM
 
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So I watched Bladerunner 2049 on the Z9 last night using a Sony 4K player and the 4K HDR disc. I thought the movie looked good but it didn't seem as bright as I thought it would be. It didn't seem to have the HDR punch to it.
Tonight I used the Samsung Q9 and right away it seemed a good amount brighter and just more clarity and punch to the picture. Also, Samsung definitely did something with the backlight as the letterbox bars are black at all times even in a very bright scene. The Z9 could not do that last night and it wasn't as bright. I have attached some photos. Just a iPhone X but I am not seeing blooming into letterbox bars straight on.
if those screens are taken properly and your cam is not distorting things, im not seeing an advantage on black level and overall luminance compared to z9d.
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post #66 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:26 PM
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Basically what I was expecting too. IPS type viewing angles but not perfect. When you do a zone count you want the settings maxed out including local dimming since it makes blooming more noticeable.

Any consensus yet on overall blacks vs the Z9D?
I was just thinkimg about the blacks and I think they look better on the Q9 so far on Bladerunner and on some Daredevil HDR season one. I didn’t think it would be possible. I am a Sony fan but I am liking this better on HDR so far.
Just need to get the motion dialed in better.
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post #67 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NY350Z View Post
So I watched Bladerunner 2049 on the Z9 last night using a Sony 4K player and the 4K HDR disc. I thought the movie looked good but it didn't seem as bright as I thought it would be. It didn't seem to have the HDR punch to it.
Tonight I used the Samsung Q9 and right away it seemed a good amount brighter and just more clarity and punch to the picture. Also, Samsung definitely did something with the backlight as the letterbox bars are black at all times even in a very bright scene. The Z9 could not do that last night and it wasn't as bright. I have attached some photos. Just a iPhone X but I am not seeing blooming into letterbox bars straight on.
if those screens are taken properly and your cam is not distorting things, im not seeing an advantage on black level and overall luminance compared to z9d.
Lol if the cam isn't distorting things...

Come on man you're not going to be able to judge anything like that from pics one way or the other.
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post #68 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:32 PM
 
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Lol if the cam isn't distorting things...

Come on man you're not going to be able to judge anything like that from pics one way or the other.
then that kind of defeats the purpose of forum members posting pics taken from their cellphones,no? they can be used a rough indicator though. this tv may be better in some aspects, but black level i dont think it's going to beat the z9d. even if this tv does have 400+ zones, the 75" version of z9d has 800+.
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post #69 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:34 PM
 
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Lol if the cam isn't distorting things...

Come on man you're not going to be able to judge anything like that from pics one way or the other.
then that kind of defeats the purpose of forum members posting pics taken from their cellphones,no? they can be used a rough indicator though. this tv may be better in some aspects, but black level i dont think it's going to beat the z9d. even if this tv does have 400+ zones, the 75" version of z9d has 800+.
You're not going to be able to tell from a camera pic of the q9 alone that it is or is not brighter than the z9, or really any unit for that matter.

Exposure can make even a TV with no local dimming have great blacks. Just too hard to tell in pictures.
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post #70 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:38 PM
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then that kind of defeats the purpose of forum members posting pics taken from their cellphones,no? they can be used a rough indicator though. this tv may be better in some aspects, but black level i dont think it's going to beat the z9d. even if this tv does have 400+ zones, the 75" version of z9d has 800+.


It's basically a rough estimate, as you said.

About the blacks, Samsung is using new anti blooming tech and also tech within the panel to prevent light leakage. So it's very possible that 450 zones beats 650 if the implementation is better. Now if Samsung did this with thousands of zones (Q9S), it could be indistinguishable from oled at only a few feet away. We already had people from ces say this Q9 was nearly identical to the oled from 6-7 feet away but could see blooming upon closer inspection. We'll see how that holds up over the next few days. If anything, it's a good stepping stone to 2019 when quantum dot color filters are going to be used.

Digitalfernhendes had the KS9800 and Z9D side by side for close comparison (it's on YouTube), and while the Z9D had better blacks, they said the KS9800 was "very comparable". That was only 150 zones and old technology. So adding 300+ more zones and new technology, it's definitely possible and probable as well. Sony will have to step up the Z9F for sure.
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post #71 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:39 PM
 
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peak brightness for this tv is rumored around 2000, z9d is already 1800+ and in a dim environment, the z9d can look really bright.
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post #72 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:40 PM
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the zone count alone isnt everything

also 480 vs ~600 on the 65" versions isnt that big of a difference


personally I expect this to beat the Z9D and then Sony must answer with Z9F ..

but there still the question of Q9 motion processing and upscaling
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post #73 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:46 PM
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then that kind of defeats the purpose of forum members posting pics taken from their cellphones,no? they can be used a rough indicator though. this tv may be better in some aspects, but black level i dont think it's going to beat the z9d. even if this tv does have 400+ zones, the 75" version of z9d has 800+.
Look, I like and prefer Sony. Never even owned a Samsung and I honestly want to prefer the Z9 I have and return the Q9, but so far in the first few hours I am liking the Q9 for HDR.
Are the blacks better on the Q9? It appears to me in some scenes yes and others no.
The Samsung does appear brighter on all HDR to me and they control the blooming better with fewer zones.
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post #74 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:49 PM
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but there still the question of Q9 motion processing and upscaling
Upscaling isn't a problem with Samsung, but getting decent motion control without SOE is. Samsung seems to think SOE is feature instead of a problem.
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post #75 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:49 PM
 
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Look, I like and prefer Sony. Never even owned a Samsung and I honestly want to prefer the Z9 I have and return the Q9, but so far in the first few hours I am liking the Q9 for HDR.
Are the blacks better on the Q9? It appears to me I’m some scenes yes and others no.
The Samsung does appear brighter on all HDR to me and they control the blooming better with fewer zones.
what content are you playing with hdr and how many nits is it graded to , if you know?
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post #76 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 06:59 PM
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450 zones? Wow!

That 5% uniformity looks solid too.
Nice, now a title must be found that put the FALD to task.

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post #77 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 07:01 PM
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Nice, now a title must be found that put the FALD to task.

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I think daredevil is quite the hdr challenge for sure.
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post #78 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 07:11 PM
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I think daredevil is quite the hdr challenge for sure.
I would suggest Bright or Pacific Rim.

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post #79 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 07:14 PM
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Upscaling isn't a problem with Samsung, but getting decent motion control without SOE is. Samsung seems to think SOE is feature instead of a problem.
He is correct. Upscaling seems really good on the Q9. Motion on the other hand is giving me some trouble. Nothing seems to correct it wotihout getting to full SOE.
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Towards the end of the Revenant when Leo’s character is walking at night towards the camp and the rescue crew is on horses with flames at night riding through the woods is a good scene. And Batman v Superman during the Batman chase scene trying to steal the kryptonite and at the end has all kinds of light bleed on my 940E. If these scenes don’t show light bleed into the black bars I just may have to get the 75 inch....
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post #81 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 07:30 PM
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There's a torture scene from "La La Land" that Samsung was using as a demo for the blacks. It this demo ends up being true for the retail units then gotta give Sammy some props.

Curious if any of the owners have LA LA Land? (BTW, there's a different article I need to find that goes into more detail about which exact scene in LLL that was used and how it handled the scene)


"Finally, for the last demo, Samsung showed off the Q9F's movie performance in a completely dark room, highlighting the set's impressive Full Array Local Dimming -- a very welcomed addition to this year's model that was sorely missing from Samsung's 2017 display lineup. This feature uses a panel of controllable backlight zones to offer superior black levels and contrast.

For comparisons sake, the 2018 Q9F was placed alongside an OLED, a 2017 edge-lit Q9F, and a 2017 Full Array set from a competitor(Z9D) . All of the displays ran through a series of HDR clips from La La Land, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, and Planet Earth II.

In general, the 2018 Q9F looked simply amazing, offering deep, inky contrast while also managing to have the brightest HDR highlights in the group. At the same time, the Q9F's implementation of local dimming seemed to actually rival the OLED's perfect black levels. Likewise, color reproduction often looked a little more vibrant and natural thanks to the superior quantum dot color volume.

The pitch black background in the La La Landscene disappeared into the room, while the spotlight on the characters lit the shot with precision and no noticeable blooming. Guardians of the Galaxy popped nicely thanks to its colorful palette, and Planet Earth II was oozing with detail, even in dark shadows.

Don't get me wrong, the OLED often looked stunning as well, but the equal black levels and extra brightness of the QLED set really did give a bit more oomph to the picture. Meanwhile, the previous generation 2017 Q9F suffered from typical uniformity problems associated with edge-lit panels, and the competing Full Array set looked nice as well but not quite as deep as the Samsung or OLED."



https://hdgear.highdefdigest.com/574...ultrahdtv.html

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post #82 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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But it's definitely 30 vertical? How does the bloom on the white moving bar look, is it small bloom?
Yeah im counting 30 again. As far as the bloom when counting, yeah it is there, small but not too bad got back light at 40%. Straight on looks decent, but gets little worse off angle or even off camber angle.

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post #83 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 08:04 PM
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Yeah im counting 30 again. As far as the bloom when counting, yeah it is there, small but not too bad got back light at 40%. Straight on looks decent, but gets little worse off angle or even off camber angle.
There will definitely be bloom on that test. But being small is good. Nice job. What was previous tv history?
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post #84 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 08:12 PM
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He is correct. Upscaling seems really good on the Q9. Motion on the other hand is giving me some trouble. Nothing seems to correct it wotihout getting to full SOE.
You will never get good motion performance with Samsung, they have been made aware of their picture processing issues for years and either they don't care or they feel its working as intended. If you look closely, you will notice that in very fast paced scenes, the Samsung will slowdown and then suddenly speed up, almost like its "lagging", and then fast forwarding to catchup. Its extremely annoying, like a driver who is constantly pressing the accelerator then letting go to maintain a speed. Its very subtle but once you see it you can't un-see it. You will also notice the stutter and artifacts (blocking, tearing, etc.) caused by even a modest amount of motion smoothing. Even if this new Q9 came close to the Z9D in picture quality (or even slightly beat it?), it would not be worth loosing out on the best picture processing currently available at the consumer level. I have a feeling once the "shiny new toy" effect wears off, you will be reinstalling your Z9D.
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post #85 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 08:15 PM
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Forgot to add, you mentioned DSE. I am very sensitive to DSE as I like to game. When I had the 2017 Q9F, it had virtually no DSE. In fact, it was even cleaner than the OLED, which was already extremely good in this regard. Its interesting how you saw enough DSE to notice it on the 2018 Q9F.
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post #86 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 10:36 PM
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I can't believe Samsung says lay it face down on a table to put the stand on.
Interesting to say the least. Laying a TV flat is never a good idea as it is at its most venerable point, however this will not "hurt" the TV per-say. Glass trucks going down the road hold the glass upright for a reason

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HDTVTest's Vincent Teoh unboxed a Sony X900F today (14 hours ago) on youtube
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post #87 of 9861 Old 03-15-2018, 11:35 PM
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Interesting early impressions guys, looks like the Q9F is overall slightly better than the Z9D but that only proves what a monster Z9 is and how well a two years old tech stacks up against the latest from Samsung. But again I'm reserving judgement till raw numbers come in from testing sites. It's hard to imagine without them put side by side.
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post #88 of 9861 Old 03-16-2018, 12:42 AM
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He is correct. Upscaling seems really good on the Q9. Motion on the other hand is giving me some trouble. Nothing seems to correct it wotihout getting to full SOE.
After owning so many Samsung TV's I doubt you can fully disable it. Sony was the first brand where I could basically tune SOE completely out of the picture. Also Sony was the first TV that didn't want to crush whites and bright colors. The Samsung might appear like it has better blacks due to better contrast I bet. Samsung TV's are great for bright rooms and the colors pop, but in some cases unrealistically.

I was hoping for finally off-angle viewing, but it looks like 10% better at most from feedback. Also the 75" Z9D is a different panel, would like to see a comparison vs 75" Q9, as these days size difference usually means different panel and that brings some differences.

Now the wait for rtings to confirm customer findings, like brightness, etc.

Thanks to those who quickly posted up feedback.
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post #89 of 9861 Old 03-16-2018, 01:00 AM
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Mine just arrived. Will be a few hours before I have help to set up.
Wow, that is allot of reflection going on. How do you think the ultra black 2.0 works? Is it different when turned off and on?
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post #90 of 9861 Old 03-16-2018, 01:27 AM
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Look, I like and prefer Sony. Never even owned a Samsung and I honestly want to prefer the Z9 I have and return the Q9, but so far in the first few hours I am liking the Q9 for HDR.
Are the blacks better on the Q9? It appears to me in some scenes yes and others no.
The Samsung does appear brighter on all HDR to me and they control the blooming better with fewer zones.
I thought the whole point of getting the Q9 is hoping the hype is true that it's better than the Z9. It seems counter intuitive your preference would be to return the Q9.

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