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post #9631 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by UnfoldingSquid View Post
Dynamic and Natural modes don't give you the option to change Color Space to Auto, which means you are locking the color into SDR in those modes. It makes sense they would disable HDR in those settings, to let the average user know those modes aren't optimal.
Is Auto the correct color space mode for HDR?

I think I have it in Original or whatever it is called.

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post #9632 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by UnfoldingSquid View Post
Dynamic and Natural modes don't give you the option to change Color Space to Auto, which means you are locking the color into SDR in those modes. It makes sense they would disable HDR in those settings, to let the average user know those modes aren't optimal.
The average user doesn't understand hdr, much less know what settings to use for it. Native in hdr looks much better than auto IMO anyways. Personal preference as always.

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post #9633 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by wmoss35 View Post
The average user doesn't understand hdr, much less know what settings to use for it. Native in hdr looks much better than auto IMO anyways. Personal preference as always.

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I don't understand it. I'm definitely not blown away by it like I thought I would. Now I've seen some impressive scenes in HDR. But I've also seen just as many impressive ones in SDR.
On the Flip side I've seen more bad HDR than Bad SDR. And by bad I just mean that some films are just to dim. I just watched Mowgli on Netflix and 3/4 of the movie is too dim. Even in a dark room. Now I'm sure some of that is too aggressive local dimming.

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post #9634 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Sensamix View Post
Is Auto the correct color space mode for HDR?

I think I have it in Original or whatever it is called.

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Auto, or Custom for calibrated Movie and Cal modes.

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post #9635 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 08:38 AM
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I've being using Native and I think HDR looks quite good.

I can clearly see that some colors pop like never before thanks to the brightness, wide color volume and 10 bit panel.

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post #9636 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Sensamix View Post
I've being using Native and I think HDR looks quite good.

I can clearly see that some colors pop like never before thanks to the brightness, wide color volume and 10 bit panel.

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Do you notice a difference from Auto? It may be defaulting to Native behind the scenes ...

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post #9637 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 09:04 AM
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I don't understand it. I'm definitely not blown away by it like I thought I would. Now I've seen some impressive scenes in HDR. But I've also seen just as many impressive ones in SDR.
On the Flip side I've seen more bad HDR than Bad SDR. And by bad I just mean that some films are just to dim. I just watched Mowgli on Netflix and 3/4 of the movie is too dim. Even in a dark room. Now I'm sure some of that is too aggressive local dimming.
You have any other HDR screens in your place to test? Maybe a buddies TV? Fact is you could be having an issue, could be cables as well as feed coming in. You running content thru a receiver? Try Bi-passing it? You watching content in multiple places or just one? Try other content thru streaming or thru HDMI if you answered just one. You have certified HDMI cables if you are running this content thru HDMI?
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post #9638 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian_Barros View Post
I don't understand it. I'm definitely not blown away by it like I thought I would. Now I've seen some impressive scenes in HDR. But I've also seen just as many impressive ones in SDR.
On the Flip side I've seen more bad HDR than Bad SDR. And by bad I just mean that some films are just to dim. I just watched Mowgli on Netflix and 3/4 of the movie is too dim. Even in a dark room. Now I'm sure some of that is too aggressive local dimming.

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Have you watched any HDR discs?

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post #9639 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 09:33 AM
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Have you watched any HDR discs?
I I have not.

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post #9640 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
You have any other HDR screens in your place to test? Maybe a buddies TV? Fact is you could be having an issue, could be cables as well as feed coming in. You running content thru a receiver? Try Bi-passing it? You watching content in multiple places or just one? Try other content thru streaming or thru HDMI if you answered just one. You have certified HDMI cables if you are running this content thru HDMI?
Everything is streaming from the TV's apps

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post #9641 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
Have you watched any HDR discs?
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Originally Posted by Brian_Barros View Post
I I have not.

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I just checked Mowgli out and it does look dim. But I also did some research and there no discs encoded for it, which means the encoding was done by Netflix, not the main production company (Warner Bros. looks like). I find Netflix encoded HDR hit or miss. I have several 4K UHD HDR discs and they are far from dim.

Another thing I noticed in Netflix is they have HDR shows, 4K UHD shows, but have yet to see a 4K UHD HDR show. Which makes sense as the streaming speed they use is 20 Mbs tops. A well encoded 4K UHD HDR disc (4K UHD always comes with HDR on disc) gets up into the 90 Mbs range.
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post #9642 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
I just checked Mowgli out and it does look dim. But I also did some research and there no discs encoded for it, which means the encoding was done by Netflix, not the main production company (Warner Bros. looks like). I find Netflix encoded HDR hit or miss. I have several 4K UHD HDR discs and they are far from dim.



Another thing I noticed in Netflix is they have HDR shows, 4K UHD shows, but have yet to see a 4K UHD HDR show. Which makes sense as the streaming speed they use is 20 Mbs tops. A well encoded 4K UHD HDR disc (4K UHD always comes with HDR on disc) gets up into the 90 Mbs range.
Netflix just uses hdr instead of ultra hd in the header, but it's all still 4k. At least 99% of it is. I mean look at bird box for example, it just says hdr but obviously its also in 4k, it's incredibly sharp.

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post #9643 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by wmoss35 View Post
Netflix just uses hdr instead of ultra hd in the header, but it's all still 4k. At least 99% of it is. I mean look at bird box for example, it just says hdr but obviously its also in 4k, it's incredibly sharp.

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And it's not just the TV upscaling?

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post #9644 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 10:18 AM
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And it's not just the TV upscaling?
Lol, no tv upscaler is that good. Anything under the main 4k label in the netflix main menu are all 4k shows and movies. Grace and frankie is another good example, the first several seasons where just 4k sdr, this latest one is in hdr but its just as sharp and clear as the sdr episodes. Its blatantly obvious it was shot in 4k. Netflix just decides to label it hdr instead of ultra hd hdr for whatever reason. Hdr also only adds about 5mpgs to a stream anyways according to netflix so long as you get around 25-30 you will get it all.

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post #9645 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 10:46 AM
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Lol, no tv upscaler is that good. Anything under the main 4k label in the netflix main menu are all 4k shows and movies. Grace and frankie is another good example, the first several seasons where just 4k sdr, this latest one is in hdr but its just as sharp and clear as the sdr episodes. Its blatantly obvious it was shot in 4k. Netflix just decides to label it hdr instead of ultra hd hdr for whatever reason. Hdr also only adds about 5mpgs to a stream anyways according to netflix so long as you get around 25-30 you will get it all.

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Netflix claims 21 required for UHD premium option. Even 30 is still in normal Blu-Ray 1080P range. But if you feel Netflix HDR / 4K UHD is just as good as 4K UHD discs, no problem. Main thing is you're happy with your setup.

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post #9646 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 11:00 AM
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Netflix claims 21 required for UHD premium option. Even 30 is still in normal Blu-Ray 1080P range. But if you feel Netflix HDR / 4K UHD is just as good as 4K UHD discs, no problem. Main thing is you're happy with your setup.
You must have me confused with someone else. No where in my posts did I say a netflix 4k hdr stream is as good or better than a 60-90 disc. I was just correcting the assumption that its either 4k or hdr 1080 on netflix when that's not the case. Ill take 4k hdr disc all day every day over a compressed 4k hdr stream, even though ive seen 4k hdr streams look better than a 4k disc but that's a whole other topic!

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post #9647 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 11:12 AM
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You must have me confused with someone else. No where in my posts did I say a netflix 4k hdr stream is as good or better than a 60-90 disc. I was just correcting the assumption that its either 4k or hdr 1080 on netflix when that's not the case. Ill take 4k hdr disc all day every day over a compressed 4k hdr stream, even though ive seen 4k hdr streams look better than a 4k disc but that's a whole other topic!

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Sorry, my bad. Yeah, results can also get middling on discs, especially with older masters. But I was put off by the really bad noise in some scenes in some Netflix HDR shows, I think Jessica Jones was one. Anyway, it's still really nice to have Netflix.

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post #9648 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 11:56 AM
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Not sure if I'm buying "no tv upscaler is that good". I thought scalers are commodity chips these days the same used by almost everyone except specialized video processors.
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post #9649 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 01:51 PM
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Sorry, my bad. Yeah, results can also get middling on discs, especially with older masters. But I was put off by the really bad noise in some scenes in some Netflix HDR shows, I think Jessica Jones was one. Anyway, it's still really nice to have Netflix.
Yeah, i hate the way they do the marvel shows. Netflix really is all over the place in terms of quality, but when you find a good one, it's really good! Still prefer discs as the end of the day like yourself

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post #9650 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 05:56 PM
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The average user doesn't understand hdr, much less know what settings to use for it. Native in hdr looks much better than auto IMO anyways. Personal preference as always.

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I’m not going to debate the settings or go with “do what looks good to you” sentiment. It’s an objective statement, Auto unlocks 10 bit color and Native locks it into 8 bit, period. The AVS in the name of these forums stands for Audio/Video Sciences, so not trying to come off as a jerk but I don’t see the value in debating subjective opinions here. I wouldn’t debate if the earth was flat with a Flat-Earther, it gives merit to their “argument.”

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post #9651 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 05:58 PM
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I’m not going to debate the settings or go with “do what looks good to you” sentiment. It’s an objective statement, Auto unlocks 10 bit color and Native locks it into 8 bit, period. The AVS in the name of these forums stands for Audio/Video Sciences, so not trying to come off as a jerk but I don’t see the value in debating subjective opinions here. I wouldn’t debate if the earth was flat with a Flat-Earther, it gives merit to their “argument.”
Wait, the earth isn't flat?

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post #9652 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 06:25 PM
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Lol, no tv upscaler is that good. Anything under the main 4k label in the netflix main menu are all 4k shows and movies. Grace and frankie is another good example, the first several seasons where just 4k sdr, this latest one is in hdr but its just as sharp and clear as the sdr episodes. Its blatantly obvious it was shot in 4k. Netflix just decides to label it hdr instead of ultra hd hdr for whatever reason. Hdr also only adds about 5mpgs to a stream anyways according to netflix so long as you get around 25-30 you will get it all.

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I don't buy that one bit.... I've watched plenty of 1080p content that's a really good source look just as good as 4k

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post #9653 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 06:35 PM
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I don't buy that one bit.... I've watched plenty of 1080p content that's a really good source look just as good as 4k

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4k streaming and 1080p blu rays aren't that different due to the compression on a 4k stream when comparing the two. 1080p streaming and 4k streaming are noticeabley different, thats what i was referring to with that previous conversation. The real benifit from these tvs come with a true 4k DI disc, just doing streaming with these sets and trying to compare doesn't do a set like this justice

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post #9654 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 07:29 PM
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4K steaming barely looks better than a 1080p disc. Discs, 1080p and 4K, will always look better than their streaming counterparts since streaming is compressed and it lowers the bit rate.

For those of you who only stream, I highly encourage you to buy a 4K player and buy at least a few “show off” discs. The wow factor can’t be beat.
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post #9655 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 08:38 PM
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I don't understand it. I'm definitely not blown away by it like I thought I would. Now I've seen some impressive scenes in HDR. But I've also seen just as many impressive ones in SDR.
On the Flip side I've seen more bad HDR than Bad SDR. And by bad I just mean that some films are just to dim. I just watched Mowgli on Netflix and 3/4 of the movie is too dim. Even in a dark room. Now I'm sure some of that is too aggressive local dimming.
Have you gone into the Roku app on your smart phone and changed Gamma to 2.0 from 2.2? This set is flipping amazing for the money, just set the color temp to Warm, don't be afraid to raise backlight, it doesn't hurt accuracy, and from there, remember to go into the Roku app and lower Gamma from 2.2 to 2.0 if you need even more pop, you might want to lower color from 45 to 40 if you do lower Gamma.
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post #9656 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 08:57 PM
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Have you gone into the Roku app on your smart phone and changed Gamma to 2.0 from 2.2? This set is flipping amazing for the money, just set the color temp to Warm, don't be afraid to raise backlight, it doesn't hurt accuracy, and from there, remember to go into the Roku app and lower Gamma from 2.2 to 2.0 if you need even more pop, you might want to lower color from 45 to 40 if you do lower Gamma.
Well, unless you calibrated the display there is no accuracy to lose ...

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post #9657 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 09:13 PM
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Well, unless you calibrated the display there is no accuracy to lose ...
That's not true at all. You can EASILY go much further out of whack trying to adjust everything you can just for a little more "pop". The TCL 615/617 on Warm color mode isn't too bad at all and people will use Cool just for more brightness and throw it FAR more out of whack, as just one example. I'm also a car enthusiast and we don't pick on each other for not going over hundreds of parameters in maximizing every tiny thing for our tunes for them either, sometimes presets on a TV are definitely close enough. I'm just using Rtings recommended settings including the advanced 11 pt and color space settings, which obviously don't apply to my exact panels. While some people do insist personally on a perfect calibration, there is no reason to be so cynical and condescending to others that don't need that level of perfection either. Not that you are, per se, but that's what you're suggesting with that kind of comment, I'd be open to hearing clarification if that's not the case.
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post #9658 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 09:40 PM
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That's not true at all. You can EASILY go much further out of whack trying to adjust everything you can just for a little more "pop". The TCL 615/617 on Warm color mode isn't too bad at all and people will use Cool just for more brightness and throw it FAR more out of whack, as just one example. I'm also a car enthusiast and we don't pick on each other for not going over hundreds of parameters in maximizing every tiny thing for our tunes for them either, sometimes presets on a TV are definitely close enough. I'm just using Rtings recommended settings including the advanced 11 pt and color space settings, which obviously don't apply to my exact panels. While some people do insist personally on a perfect calibration, there is no reason to be so cynical and condescending to others that don't need that level of perfection either. Not that you are, per se, but that's what you're suggesting with that kind of comment, I'd be open to hearing clarification if that's not the case.
I was being somewhat sarcastic. No calibration is perfect, and this particular TV (which I really enjoy) has some peculiarities that don't help its accuracy.

The TV has two main areas of adjustment: grayscale (which by the way is 21 point, not 11) and color. Color deviations may be more apparent, but grayscale deviations are also important. You're suggesting changing the gamma doesn't affect accuracy, when in fact it affects the whole grayscale. I guess it depends on what you consider accurate.

While this TV can look very nice and pleasing by tweaking the basic controls, it is nowhere accurate, as you'll see when you calibrate it and see the discrepancies in red, green and blue across the grayscale, and the luminance errors in the colorspace.

If you feel I'm being condescending, that's your call.

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post #9659 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
I was being somewhat sarcastic. No calibration is perfect, and this particular TV (which I really enjoy) has some peculiarities that don't help its accuracy.

The TV has two main areas of adjustment: grayscale (which by the way is 21 point, not 11) and color. Color deviations may be more apparent, but grayscale deviations are also important. You're suggesting changing the gamma doesn't affect accuracy, when in fact it affects the whole grayscale. I guess it depends on what you consider accurate.

While this TV can look very nice and pleasing by tweaking the basic controls, it is nowhere accurate, as you'll see when you calibrate it and see the discrepancies in red, green and blue across the grayscale, and the luminance errors in the colorspace.

If you feel I'm being condescending, that's your call.
No, this makes sense, thanks for clarifying... And I apologize I absolutely clicked the wrong link and am in the wrong thread, so my apologies! But while I'm here, I can see that the Q9FN only rates a 9.4 after calibration and the TCL R615/617 manages to hit a 9.7 rating so indeed, on high end sets as the Q9N that could indeed be frustrating not able to calibrate better than that!
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post #9660 of 10056 Old 05-27-2019, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by danbfree View Post
No, this makes sense, thanks for clarifying... And I apologize I absolutely clicked the wrong link and am in the wrong thread, so my apologies! But while I'm here, I can see that the Q9FN only rates a 9.4 after calibration and the TCL R615/617 manages to hit a 9.7 rating so indeed, on high end sets as the Q9N that could indeed be frustrating not able to calibrate better than that!
No worries. I do enjoy calibrating and the search for accuracy, but ultimately we want a picture we can really enjoy .
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Samsung 75Q9FN, OPPO UDP-205
Win 10 Pro x64 1903
HT Enthusiast Extended Custom WF v19.3.0 - 7/5/2019
HT Enthusiast Essentials Custom WF v1.2.0 - 7/5/2019
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