2018 Samsung Q9FN ''Owners thread'' ''No price talk'' - Page 353 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10561 of 10641 Old 11-02-2019, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jjpower View Post
Guess I rejoiced too soon... Everything worked for ~2 days and now the issue is back. TV doesn’t always recognize HDR content and I have to restart video 2-3 times to enable HDR. Annoying as hell.

Maybe I’ll try another set of 4K HDR hdmi cables but I doubt that will help.

JJ
Do you have Match Frame Rate enabled? I had to keep that off. Will continue monitoring. I have the Belkin HDMI cable sold by Apple.
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post #10562 of 10641 Old 11-03-2019, 12:32 AM
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Upgraded to 1283 yesterday, Xbox One X has rebooted twice today w/ Freesync enabled.

The wait continues.
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post #10563 of 10641 Old 11-03-2019, 01:21 AM
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Still waiting for 1283 on the UK site.....


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post #10564 of 10641 Old 11-05-2019, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by cannedcocktail View Post
Do you have Match Frame Rate enabled? I had to keep that off. Will continue monitoring. I have the Belkin HDMI cable sold by Apple.
Hi,

yeah I have match "Range & Framerate" selected. For some reason the HDR switching seems to work again... Yesterday I turned on "Anynet+ (HDMI-CEC)" on my Q9FN. It shouldn't really affect the HDR switching but you never know. I also have the "Control TVs and Receivers" switched on in my Apple TV settings.

I had HDMI-CEC turned off because it caused other problems a while ago. Also when you have HDMI-CEC enabled, you can't use the samsung remote middle button to display the signal "Info" data. Of course theres a workaround to push the "123" button twice and then select "i"... but it was annoying.

Anyways after turning on HDMI-CEC, I haven't had a single HDR switch issue... fingers crossed. ;-) Probably it'll stop working again in a day or two... who knows.

JJ
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post #10565 of 10641 Old 11-05-2019, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jjpower View Post
Hi,



yeah I have match "Range & Framerate" selected. For some reason the HDR switching seems to work again... Yesterday I turned on "Anynet+ (HDMI-CEC)" on my Q9FN. It shouldn't really affect the HDR switching but you never know. I also have the "Control TVs and Receivers" switched on in my Apple TV settings.



I had HDMI-CEC turned off because it caused other problems a while ago. Also when you have HDMI-CEC enabled, you can't use the samsung remote middle button to display the signal "Info" data. Of course theres a workaround to push the "123" button twice and then select "i"... but it was annoying.



Anyways after turning on HDMI-CEC, I haven't had a single HDR switch issue... fingers crossed. ;-) Probably it'll stop working again in a day or two... who knows.



JJ
I could see where HDMI control could effect HDR switching from an external device.

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post #10566 of 10641 Old 11-06-2019, 07:51 AM
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After upgrading to 1283, the tv feels a lot more laggy, going through the sources and/or settings.
Anyone else has this?

And I also feel like that the lightning up from the TV around subtitles and other small white things has gotten a lot worse.


Unrelated, or maybe it isn't


If I look closely I can see the left and right edge light up, like it has edge lighting.
Is this normal?
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post #10567 of 10641 Old 11-06-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bulldogtech View Post
Thanks everyone, it looks like i've also found a stuck pixel, pictures attached. Have other Q9FN owners had similar experiences or should this be considered acceptable?.Would this be something you would look to return/exchange for within your return period?
I would return it. I have had two Q80R sets come out of the box looking like that way, which is not cool. When you pay this kind of money for something, it better be absolutely perfect. In every way, shape, and form. No exceptions. This "with in acceptable range" is complete garbage to me. $1500+ for any TV better be PRISTINE. I have one more return available on my Q80R, and I am unsure as to what I am going to do.

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post #10568 of 10641 Old 11-06-2019, 02:12 PM
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I would return it. I have had two Q80R sets come out of the box looking like that way, which is not cool. When you pay this kind of money for something, it better be absolutely perfect. In every way, shape, and form. No exceptions. This "with in acceptable range" is complete garbage to me. $1500+ for any TV better be PRISTINE. I have one more return available on my Q80R, and I am unsure as to what I am going to do.

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Thanks for the input Ryan, sorry to hear about your Q80R. I decided to do an exchange as Amazon has a good 30 day policy, and I get another 30 days with the new unit. Besides the pixel, the DSE is too distracting on this panel when watching hockey and sometimes football. Im going to hope for better uniformity this time.
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post #10569 of 10641 Old 11-06-2019, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bulldogtech View Post
Thanks for the input Ryan, sorry to hear about your Q80R. I decided to do an exchange as Amazon has a good 30 day policy, and I get another 30 days with the new unit. Besides the pixel, the DSE is too distracting on this panel when watching hockey and sometimes football. Im going to hope for better uniformity this time.
Hopefully you will win the panel lottery this time. I think I am going to get a Square Trade Warranty with my next and final exchange. I can only exchange one more time, so I need to make it count. I am told by Square Trade that they cover both bad pixels and burn-in, should I end up opting for an OLED.

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post #10570 of 10641 Old 11-06-2019, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ryan.carlson82 View Post
Hopefully you will win the panel lottery this time. I think I am going to get a Square Trade Warranty with my next and final exchange. I can only exchange one more time, so I need to make it count. I am told by Square Trade that they cover both bad pixels and burn-in, should I end up opting for an OLED.

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I don’t know who told you Square Trade covers burn in, but they don’t:
https://help.squaretrade.com/support...-my-television

The only warranty I know of that covers burn in is Geek Squad Protection at Best Buy.

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post #10571 of 10641 Old 11-07-2019, 01:40 AM
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New firmware still not available on the UK site


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post #10572 of 10641 Old 11-07-2019, 09:19 AM
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I don’t know who told you Square Trade covers burn in, but they don’t:

https://help.squaretrade.com/support...-my-television



The only warranty I know of that covers burn in is Geek Squad Protection at Best Buy.
Then that rules out OLED for me, seeing as how my wife will have the stock market on daily anywhere from 6-10 hours for work. I know that's going to be an issue with OLED.

It was Square Trade themselves that told me yesterday when I called them to inquire about weather or not it was covered before I made any purchase.

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post #10573 of 10641 Old 11-07-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by UnfoldingSquid View Post
I don’t know who told you Square Trade covers burn in, but they don’t:
https://help.squaretrade.com/support...-my-television

The only warranty I know of that covers burn in is Geek Squad Protection at Best Buy.
Hold the phone, depends............. LG added burn in coverage to OLED so if it is written in the manufacturers warranty, extended warranty companies follow the manufacturer. <<< Click here >>>
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post #10574 of 10641 Old 11-07-2019, 05:16 PM
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Then that rules out OLED for me, seeing as how my wife will have the stock market on daily anywhere from 6-10 hours for work. I know that's going to be an issue with OLED.

It was Square Trade themselves that told me yesterday when I called them to inquire about weather or not it was covered before I made any purchase.

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It doesn’t matter what the misinformed guy on the phone says, they will point to their terms and conditions spelled out in black and white.

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post #10575 of 10641 Old 11-08-2019, 11:25 PM
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Actually playing Death Stranding in 4K HDR on my 65Q9FN (game mode disabled), it's the craziest thing I've ever seen. I would buy a PS4 just for this experience, specially with a great sound setup.
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post #10576 of 10641 Old 11-09-2019, 03:01 AM
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Actually playing Death Stranding in 4K HDR on my 65Q9FN (game mode disabled), it's the craziest thing I've ever seen. I would buy a PS4 just for this experience, specially with a great sound setup.


I started Gears 5 yesterday (with game mode and freesync ) - looks stunning.

Some great looking games around!


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post #10577 of 10641 Old 11-09-2019, 02:44 PM
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Actually playing Death Stranding in 4K HDR on my 65Q9FN (game mode disabled), it's the craziest thing I've ever seen. I would buy a PS4 just for this experience, specially with a great sound setup.

That's what I felt about God of War on my 75 inch...it was THE perfect intro to the display.



DS does look good, though. But, I'm loving Red Dead Redemption 2 at 120Hz...
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post #10578 of 10641 Old 11-11-2019, 05:27 PM
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I have to say watching the Titans season 1 BD in my 75" the local dimming looks to be improved for the 2.00 black bars.

---------------------------------------
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post #10579 of 10641 Old 11-11-2019, 11:56 PM
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Hello everybody!

I have been monitoring this forum for quite a while, there's been some good value so thank you everybody who's contributed.
Decided it's time for me to reach out and see if others are able to assist or provide some feedback.

I've got the same Q9FN as AnotherDude, an Australian model 75" Q9FN.

My issue since the beginning, no matter how many firmware updates pass, is that PC Mode just seems a little broken on some fronts.
Namely local dimming support and HDR via my PC and this TV's PC Mode.

Keep in mind there are PC Monitors out there that dim properly and provide proper full HDR brightness, whilst this TV in PC Mode doesn't seem to work with the Local Dimming setting and HDR appears to have a much lower peak brightness.

Does anybody have a PC where they can test if theirs is the same for me at all?

Provided my troubleshooting as an I.T Technician by trade, I have ended up deciding it must be a firmware update, as Movie Mode and other modes work exactly as you'd expect with HDR, but in PC Mode it appears to be crippled.

In PC Mode, local dimming in HDR and SDR appear to be way less aggressive than Movie Mode which I use outside of PC use.
The whole screen must mostly be black in order for the TV to dim from grey to proper black, whereas in Movie Mode different spots of the picture can actually be full dark without nearly the whole screen needing to be black for it to dim properly. This is difficult to test and I can't even remember what tests I ended up running for this, as some work as you'd expect and others not, I believe it has to do with the size of the content on screen, a local dimming test will turn all the black around a white square or circle close to it a grey instead, not blooming though, just more like a super long gradual drop off in local dimming rather than it being more aggressive around the bright shape itself, like it is in Movie Mode. Black bars for one in PC Mode watching movies are grey in some brighter scenes, and yes the settings are all set properly, I've tested different black levels in NVIDIA Control Panel and the TV itself, I've tried RGB and Ycbcr options too. Changing the local dimming setting via Movie Mode on the TV you can see the image brighten up or dull using the PC as it's meant to, but in PC mode it doesn't work, it doesn't do anything at all..

With HDR itself, the peak brightness is significantly lesser than Movie Mode, if I load of the new Modern Warfare for example in hdr and look at some car lights or spotlights, the light can be almost blinding in movie mode while using my TV, however on PC mode it seems crippled and just isn't nearly as bright. This is with the game calibrated for each mode in it's HDR calibration options.

Overall, I feel confident that local dimming in sdr and hdr (better in hdr) and HDR peak brightness are both not functioning properly in PC mode, but I cannot find anyone else confirming the same thing online, so I am hoping someone could help test with me. I have been waiting for a firmware fix from samsung since i bought the tv in march, but alas i still have the same issue. I am connected to an Anthem MRX 720 and doubt it's the issue provided PC mode works, and I've tested a laptop directly to the TV that is HDR capable, however I may test this again as I can't remember clearly.

Both of these links I have used as reference tests for brightness and clipping, on the tv's YouTube app via Movie Mode they work properly and display up to 1000nits as they're mastered to, however on my PC I am only getting up to 500-600 nits which I'd say is about what I'm seeing in brightness difference it feels like, half the brightness! :O

Any help or input would be appreciated.. my PC is my main source I do everything on, and just spent $1000 on a new graphics card..
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post #10580 of 10641 Old 11-11-2019, 11:59 PM
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I'm not sure how to edit my previous submission, however I just wanted to add Australia doesn't have the latest 1283 firmware yet, however I doubt it will change anything as the previous 3 haven't and nobody else seems to be reporting this issue. (I have a sensitive eye and pick up on things most don't notice unfortunately in my experience)
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post #10581 of 10641 Old 11-12-2019, 01:10 AM
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Sorry to spam.. please let me know how to edit my comments when you can.

Update: I meant to say " I am connected to an Anthem MRX 720 and doubt it's the issue provided Movie Mode works "
Update: I have connected my TV directly to my PC via HDMI 2.1 cable (overspec) and the issue remains.
Update: Service Center guy is scratching his head
Update: I believe the colours are also oversaturated, as PC mode appears to lock the colour to native instead of auto, the LG's had this issue but they actually got an update for it..
Update: In PC Mode the TV clips when displaying HDR material above about 500-600 nits. You can only use HDR material that allows you to calibrate to where you clip on the TV, which in turn makes the TV very dull.
Update: You can turn down the gamma or contrast in hdr to make the clipping stop, but this dulls the whole image and should not be the resolution.

Might have to return the TV if I can't get anywhere, I'm almost certain it's a firmware / software bug / limitation to reduce as much input lag as possible..
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post #10582 of 10641 Old 11-12-2019, 05:21 AM
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Sorry to spam.. please let me know how to edit my comments when you can.

Update: I meant to say " I am connected to an Anthem MRX 720 and doubt it's the issue provided Movie Mode works "
Update: I have connected my TV directly to my PC via HDMI 2.1 cable (overspec) and the issue remains.
Update: Service Center guy is scratching his head
Update: I believe the colours are also oversaturated, as PC mode appears to lock the colour to native instead of auto, the LG's had this issue but they actually got an update for it..
Update: In PC Mode the TV clips when displaying HDR material above about 500-600 nits. You can only use HDR material that allows you to calibrate to where you clip on the TV, which in turn makes the TV very dull.
Update: You can turn down the gamma or contrast in hdr to make the clipping stop, but this dulls the whole image and should not be the resolution.

Might have to return the TV if I can't get anywhere, I'm almost certain it's a firmware / software bug / limitation to reduce as much input lag as possible..
You shouldn't use PC mode, it disables most of the settings for no benefits unless you're using your TV as a screen to write Word docs
Just rename the source from PC to whatever (I named it PC TV) and all your problems get solved. Simply use all the different picture modes with expert settings depending on your needs (I'm personally loving brightness -1 and gamma +3 for my PC) .

I'm also using my setup as a (dual monitor) htpc:
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post #10583 of 10641 Old 11-12-2019, 06:01 AM
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Looks like the mobile website doesn't let me quote you, however this won't fix the problem. By using the PC with a mode other than PC Mode, input lag rises which defeats one of the points as to why I bought it. Game Mode seems to be just as castrating as PC Mode in the brightness and local dimming departments. They give you the local dimming option to use but it does nothing..

They cut down on so much to get the input lag low, I think they gimped the TV for proper PC use or gaming it looks like, this should effect even those console gamers using game mode as the same thing happened to me whether i had pc mode w/ game mode enabled over the top or movie mode w/ game mode enabled over the top. Game mode local dimming option just outright doesn't work like the pc mode one. I'm also having problems viewing hdr black material through YouTube on Google Chrome as pure black. Everything is coming up as grey instead. YouTube app on tv works. Maybe the latest driver is messed up. So many components in the chain..

I am assuming you meant pick for example "game console" as the option for my pc/receiver and rename it to PC TV for example. This did nothing except rename. I've seen mentions of renaming can unlock options etc but found it not too be true for the qleds.

Further discussion is welcomed, my biggest peeve right now is the black being grey in hdr YouTube. I can try an older driver i just don't know which and am getting sick of this. Feel like just pushing for a refund since the tv just has never allowed me to properly utilise it with my chosen source. Pc mode is basically not HDR friendly right now, SDR is fine, uses the native colour space but differently, doesn't look too bad although it would be nice to just let it be accurate with Auto, you'd think that would be less processing than the native colour space which converts everything srgb to dci-p3
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post #10584 of 10641 Old 11-12-2019, 08:05 AM
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I am assuming you meant pick for example "game console" as the option for my pc/receiver and rename it to PC TV for example. This did nothing except rename. I've seen mentions of renaming can unlock options etc but found it not too be true for the qleds.
If you have access to expert picture settings (ie gamma etc) then you are already out of PC mode, which means your input isn't labelled "PC", otherwise rename it like in my previous post.

Input lag doesn't change between PC and non-PC mode, only game mode reduce it (with non great black issues like you said).
My advice is just to use game mode for demanding games like fps and not use it for games you want the best picture. I use standard mode for most of my games and it's fine to me. I only switch to game mode and [email protected] for fps and shooters, as it's way more important than picture quality. I also noticed that auto game mode on my PS4 just ruined dimming (in SDR games), I don't know why, because turning auto switch off and manually switching to game mode solved the issue.
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post #10585 of 10641 Old 11-12-2019, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by KwizatZ View Post
If you have access to expert picture settings (ie gamma etc) then you are already out of PC mode, which means your input isn't labelled "PC", otherwise rename it like in my previous post.



Input lag doesn't change between PC and non-PC mode, only game mode reduce it (with non great black issues like you said).

My advice is just to use game mode for demanding games like fps and not use it for games you want the best picture. I use standard mode for most of my games and it's fine to me. I only switch to game mode and [email protected] for fps and shooters, as it's way more important than picture quality. I also noticed that auto game mode on my PS4 just ruined dimming (in SDR games), I don't know why, because turning auto switch off and manually switching to game mode solved the issue.
Just to add to this as I tested game mode vs standard/movie mode in hdr a while back. Think it comes down to 2 things:

1) Game mode local dimming is def worse so blacks aren't as good.

2) Standard/movie mode actually overbrighten the image (confirmed by reviewers that Samsung doesn't track EOTF). When I calibrated hdr game mode using in game hdr settings that specify nits, my light meter in game mode closely tracked the nits. So if the game said 700 nits, my light meter read around 700 nits in game mode. The other modes would sometimes read up to 50% higher in some scenes.....Max I ever saw was around 70% in one test, with the average difference around 30% in typical scenes. In dark scenes with one bright highlight, game mode highlights can actually be brighter due to the aggressive local dimming in dark scenes.

I agree with the recommendation. The extra punch in other modes is great (along with the inky blacks) so I use standard or movie mode for games that don't require quick inputs, and switch to game mode for fast paced shooting or driving games.

This may also be why hdr game mode doesn't overbrighten. If it ramped up the brightness to match the other modes the blacks would look even worse..... It's probably a good compromise, although the ideal solution would be full local dimming that could keep up with the low input lag. That's probably not possible without Samsung investing in faster chips.

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post #10586 of 10641 Old 11-12-2019, 07:50 PM
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So is this tv any good and worth getting?
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post #10587 of 10641 Old 11-12-2019, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KwizatZ View Post
If you have access to expert picture settings (ie gamma etc) then you are already out of PC mode, which means your input isn't labelled "PC", otherwise rename it like in my previous post.

Input lag doesn't change between PC and non-PC mode, only game mode reduce it (with non great black issues like you said).
My advice is just to use game mode for demanding games like fps and not use it for games you want the best picture. I use standard mode for most of my games and it's fine to me. I only switch to game mode and [email protected] for fps and shooters, as it's way more important than picture quality. I also noticed that auto game mode on my PS4 just ruined dimming (in SDR games), I don't know why, because turning auto switch off and manually switching to game mode solved the issue.
I disagree, I notice the difference in input lag between PC Mode and non-PC Mode.. this is why half the processing is turned off as using a PC with a TV requires low input lag, otherwise even the mouse and keyboard and feel laggy. When gaming or even just using the mouse I do personally see the difference, it's night and day for me.

I prefer using the TV at the native 3840x2160 @ 60hz, higher refresh rates are quite nice but it's all about adaptation, and 60hz is smooth, it just doesn't seem smooth in comparison to 120hz when you've adjusted, I think 3840x2160 is a pretty good threshold for pixel density on TV's and once we can do that comfortably then I'd like to move up in refresh rate, this is coming from someone who's using 2x different high refresh rate monitors and really enjoys it, both 16:9 and 21:9. It's personal preference at the end of the day (and I'm a graphics whore)..

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Originally Posted by SeanZCT View Post
Just to add to this as I tested game mode vs standard/movie mode in hdr a while back. Think it comes down to 2 things:

1) Game mode local dimming is def worse so blacks aren't as good.

2) Standard/movie mode actually overbrighten the image (confirmed by reviewers that Samsung doesn't track EOTF). When I calibrated hdr game mode using in game hdr settings that specify nits, my light meter in game mode closely tracked the nits. So if the game said 700 nits, my light meter read around 700 nits in game mode. The other modes would sometimes read up to 50% higher in some scenes.....Max I ever saw was around 70% in one test, with the average difference around 30% in typical scenes. In dark scenes with one bright highlight, game mode highlights can actually be brighter due to the aggressive local dimming in dark scenes.

I agree with the recommendation. The extra punch in other modes is great (along with the inky blacks) so I use standard or movie mode for games that don't require quick inputs, and switch to game mode for fast paced shooting or driving games.

This may also be why hdr game mode doesn't overbrighten. If it ramped up the brightness to match the other modes the blacks would look even worse..... It's probably a good compromise, although the ideal solution would be full local dimming that could keep up with the low input lag. That's probably not possible without Samsung investing in faster chips.

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1. Agreed, but I also experience this in PC Mode too, I find the 2 modes very similar in performance, however I enable Game Mode on top of PC Mode, one is a source type and the other is a feature.
Enabling Game Mode on Home Theatre source type for example gives different results, still not ideal.

2. Yes I know about the overbrightened EOTF curve, the clipping isn't very good though and should be handled differently. Thanks for the measurements though!
It's hard to say if Movie Mode is brighter than PC Mode simply because of this, and PC Mode is actually more accurate, however during pattern testing with PC Mode I was seeing clipping at only 500-600nits which is unacceptable and when calibrating in game to avoid clipping the brightness as a result only gets set to 500-600nits tops which is crap, otherwise I get overblown highlights with lots of details missing. Using Movie Mode this works properly atleast and I can use the TV as it was designed..

I think we're both on the same page, the word compromise says it all, Samsung has compromised the PC Mode to get the low input lag, by castrating the benefits of the TV (bright peak nits and inky blacks) which is a huge problem for me considering it's my do-it-all PC monitor, and I paid a pretty penny for it.

I am attempting a refund, provided I've had it for 7 months and this is covered by Australian Consumer Law, the OLED's would be the ideal candidate but I'm still not comfortable with them just yet, unless maybe I set my display timeout for 1-2 minutes when my PC is not used, however we still have in-use scenarios to worry about then.

There are some dedicated PC TV's coming out in the near future I can keep an eye out on, but for now a monitor is probably ideal. ASUS and Acer have these killer 1000nit displays with 384 local dimming zones and DCI-P3 support at 27" 4K and 144hz, but I think I might wait some more years for the tech to mature as those monitors are expensive too.

See what happens I guess.
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post #10588 of 10641 Old 11-12-2019, 08:11 PM
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So is this tv any good and worth getting?
I would say yes

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post #10589 of 10641 Old 11-12-2019, 08:22 PM
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I would say yes

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Agreed, my issue is not bound to be common amongst most, outside of PC use, the TV performs wonderfully, best display I've ever seen and I'm picky, plus lots of controls to tweak to your liking.
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post #10590 of 10641 Old 11-12-2019, 08:44 PM
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I run in PC/Game mode exclusively. I've tried switching Game mode off, and I felt it dramatically. Everything felt more sluggish and I never really went back. I'm mainly PC gaming on this display. I do wonder, if I could get stable VRR in non-game mode, if it would balance out enough, input lag wise.
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