2018 Samsung Q9FN ''Owners thread'' ''No price talk'' - Page 365 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10921 of 11203 Old 03-01-2020, 11:38 AM
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1st pic is game mode on, second pic game mode off, last pic proof

(local dimming is working great)

Edit : pics 4,5,6 are the same test but in SDR, as it was more noticeable in SDR when it wasn't working (which is clearly not the case here)
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Last edited by KwizatZ; 03-01-2020 at 11:56 AM.
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post #10922 of 11203 Old 03-01-2020, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by papusale View Post
Much appreciate it Magnifican!
Judging from the size of the TV you have, you got the European version, as I understood that's the only region where the 55" is available?
If that's the case, then the game mode should have been fixed with the latest 1292.3 patch according to KwizatZ.
Does your TV's game mode have any local dimming at all, or is it just between low/high settings where the issue is present?

Also regarding the viewing angles, what I actually meant was when sitting dead center at an optimal distance for 4K content (being about 1.5m with the 55" size), do you see any contrast/color degradation on the left/right-most side of the panel?
I had this issue with the KS8000 model, where the sides of the picture would slightly (but noticeably) lose color and elevate the blacks.
Yes, I have the European version, im in europe
Thats interesting about the latest firmware, I will have to update it and test then, I was holding off on the update until I read enough feedback.
Yes I think it does have local dimming to some degree, but its impossible to know because I see no difference between Low/High whatsoever, unlike in non-gamemode one can more easily see the difference. I suspect that Samsung just turned off or limited Local Dimming to Low - regardless of user setting - to minimise processing/input latency or some such. But anyway, here too hoping it got better after the last update you mentioned.
Alright so the viewing angles I get what you mean now, and again in my opinion I do not notice this degradation when going closer to the screen. But remember this is only my opinion and maybe you will notice? Also people say TV's differ alot even when same models, but hopefully you will get a good one and enjoy it! Cheers
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post #10923 of 11203 Old 03-01-2020, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by KwizatZ View Post
1st pic is game mode on, second pic game mode off, last pic proof
Lol those look identical, thats great news! I will surely update then, thanks for feedback
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post #10924 of 11203 Old 03-01-2020, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by KwizatZ View Post
1st pic is game mode on, second pic game mode off, last pic proof

(local dimming is working great)

Edit : pics 4,5,6 are the same test but in SDR, as it was more noticeable in SDR when it wasn't working (which is clearly not the case here)
Thanks for the pictures. Really clears things up for me!
Also earlier you suggested not to update the firmware at all once I get the TV, but I decided to update anyway due to some local dimming algorithm issues with the TV's original firmware in addition to so many other issues.
According to Vincent from HDTVtest, this was fixed in a later firmware.

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Originally Posted by Magnifican View Post
Lol those look identical, thats great news! I will surely update then, thanks for feedback
Keep me posted on the image quality on game mode once you update!
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post #10925 of 11203 Old 03-01-2020, 05:44 PM
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I'm not a gamer, but how can Samsung explain the European models having a great Game mode and the US models having a crappy one?

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post #10926 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
I'm not a gamer, but how can Samsung explain the European models having a great Game mode and the US models having a crappy one?
I had the issue 2 firmware ago, so it's not region related (it's also probably not firmware related as different persons have the issue with different firmware : I'm convinced it's related to the upgrade process itself)
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post #10927 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by KwizatZ View Post
I had the issue 2 firmware ago, so it's not region related (it's also probably not firmware related as different persons have the issue with different firmware : I'm convinced it's related to the upgrade process itself)
Could you clarify what you mean by upgrade process in contrast to firmware update?
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post #10928 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by papusale View Post
Could you clarify what you mean by upgrade process in contrast to firmware update?
I mean not firmware version related, IE switching firmware has the chance to break game mode (or repair it if it's broken) regardless of version.
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post #10929 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 04:09 AM
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Just updated to the 1292.3 on the European 55" Q8DN.


The main issue that 1290.4 introduced was HDMI overscan for PC input. 23,24,25 & 50hz display the image too large, fit to screen doesn't work.
This issue hasn't been fixed in 1292.3. This was not and issue with 1270.6 and earlier versions.



Will have to keep using Console input mode to go around the issue. Though overall it's more functional(console, more options) but you only can have full 4:4:4 chroma in PC input mode but locked to Native gamut.



Game Mode I'll look into later, usually takes a few tries to see if it's working as it should or not. 1290.4 was bad while I'm sure 1270.6 was better. Haven't seen how 1292.3 is yet.



A positive aspect it felt like input-lag for Console->Movie mode 4k60hz was slightly improved. Felt a touch snappier with the mouse after update.
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post #10930 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Magnifican View Post
Yes, I have the European version, im in europe
I suspect that Samsung just turned off or limited Local Dimming to Low - regardless of user setting - to minimise processing/input latency or some such.
Have you tried playing outside of game mode then? Is the input lag bearable for casual non competitive gaming?
I hear disabling some features, such as motion smoothness and contrast enhancer will improve the lag.
For me, the most important post processing feature is the local dimming (as it's the main selling point of the Q9FN), all other features I can ignore.
If the input lag is bearable with only local dimming enabled outside of game mode, then I won't need to be that worried.
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post #10931 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 05:48 AM
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It looks like 1292 firmware is out for usa tvs.

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post #10932 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post
Will have to keep using Console input mode to go around the issue. Though overall it's more functional(console, more options) but you only can have full 4:4:4 chroma in PC input mode but locked to Native gamut.
The only advantage of PC mode is having less input lag : in a previous post I tested it, it was about 30ms in game mode (Non-PC) and 15ms in PC mode. In Console and PC input mode you can go either 4:4:4 RGB/8 bits/60Hz or 4:2:2 YCbCr/10 bits(or less)/60Hz, but it's not related to PC mode : it's due to HDMI 2.0 limitation. (At 24Hz you can go 4:4:4 RGB/10 bits if you want)

Personally I'm fine with 30ms input lag but having all the PQ options of non-PC mode.
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post #10933 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Viscious82 View Post
It looks like 1292 firmware is out for usa tvs.

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At least they labeled it correctly . The Korean site has it as 1291.1 but it's really 1292.1.
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post #10934 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
At least they labeled it correctly . The Korean site has it as 1291.1 but it's really 1292.1.
Hopefully means that it corrects issues. Are there any change notes available from any of the different languages? The us change notes are useless.

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post #10935 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 12:21 PM
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A positive aspect it felt like input-lag for Console->Movie mode 4k60hz was slightly improved. Felt a touch snappier with the mouse after update.
Thats great! A big downside of using Console input without game-mode (i.e. movie mode) was that in 4k60hz the mouse was really sloggish, but if I switched to 1440p or 1080p and 120hz for example, there was no mouse lag at all even with game-mode turned off (I wonder why this is happening only in 4k60hz?). Im looking forward to see if mouse it smoother now in 4k60hz then, that way maybe I dont have to (ironically) switch to Game-mode when NOT playing to be able to smoothly browsing around the web, lol.

EDIT: Btw, now im curious that if the mouse is not as laggy anymore outside game-mode in 4k60hz as you said, could that maaaybe mean that they improved input lag ms overall? Man that would really be something! I wonder if anyone here have the proper tools to test it out?

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Originally Posted by papusale View Post
Have you tried playing outside of game mode then? Is the input lag bearable for casual non competitive gaming?
I hear disabling some features, such as motion smoothness and contrast enhancer will improve the lag.
For me, the most important post processing feature is the local dimming (as it's the main selling point of the Q9FN), all other features I can ignore.
If the input lag is bearable with only local dimming enabled outside of game mode, then I won't need to be that worried.
Yes, i've already answered this in a post before For non-competetive games its fine to play with game-mode disabled for better overall PQ and dimming (assuming this has/will not been fixed in game-mode, seems everyone have conflicting results here). For shooting games etc I use game mode for lower ms. Also, I never use any post-processing stuff, I used to have contrast enhancer in HDR games but since picture gets overblown and colors not accurate, I turned it off (granted its not as bright and less "popping" now, but more accurate), and Game Motion Plus features I only use in PS4 games because its limited to a crappy 30 fps. PS5/Xbox Series X 4k60hz will hopefully be great and we can use Freesync then. Cheers

Last edited by Magnifican; 03-02-2020 at 12:31 PM.
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post #10936 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Magnifican View Post
Thats great! A big downside of using Console input without game-mode (i.e. movie mode) was that in 4k60hz the mouse was really sloggish, but if I switched to 1440p or 1080p and 120hz for example, there was no mouse lag at all even with game-mode turned off (I wonder why this is happening only in 4k60hz?). Im looking forward to see if mouse it smoother now in 4k60hz then, that way maybe I dont have to (ironically) switch to Game-mode when NOT playing to be able to smoothly browsing around the web, lol.
Hey Magnifican, are you using movie as your non-game gaming mode? Right now I am using standard, and pretty happy with it. Just curious what other people were using, thanks.
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post #10937 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 12:52 PM
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The 1292 update failed with two different USB drives. The first time it has happened to me.
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post #10938 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 03:26 PM
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Hey Magnifican, are you using movie as your non-game gaming mode? Right now I am using standard, and pretty happy with it. Just curious what other people were using, thanks.
Yes I am. Movie mode has the best PQ I think, im also very used to it by now since watching movies etc. using Movie Mode with Warm 2 are closest to what movie makers intended picture, and I also use forum user AnotherDude's calibrations for that mode which he has posted here before. Its the best calibrations i've had for 1 years now so I always use his as base then make some slight adjustments on my own like Backlight to 50 (cause bright room) and contrast at 33 instead of 28 for example. When im using game-mode im trying to calibrate my picture to look as close to my Non-game movie mode as possible, to get the same picture as much as possible regardless what im doing.

I used standard mode at first when I got the TV, and these new settings takes some time getting used to (found it way to warm/reddish at first but now I think even Warm 1 is too cool/blueish). In the end, its all personal preference, especially if you're not watching movies then use whatever you like the most and if thats Standard mode then go for it. Personally I could never go back now
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post #10939 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by papusale View Post
Have you tried playing outside of game mode then? Is the input lag bearable for casual non competitive gaming?
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Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post
A positive aspect it felt like input-lag for Console->Movie mode 4k60hz was slightly improved. Felt a touch snappier with the mouse after update.
I have now updated to latest firmware, I had to download it manually and use USB cause my TV didnt find it automatically. After I've done some testing at https://www.testufo.com/ before the update and after. I can confirm that the latency and also mouse lag is indeed improved and much smoother with the latest firmware update when outside of Game-Mode at 4k60hz resolution - this is indeed great news! Before the update there was a huge difference when comparing in and out of Game-mode, the test Ufos stuttered a great deal, now they are much smoother. That said, there is still some difference and Game-mode is indeed clearer still in this test - but less so than before. I suspect then that Samsung may now actually have improved the lag ms slightly, but this is ofc not certain without proper testing like those Rtings does.
I may no longer have to switch in and out of game-mode anymore and just leave it off unless I do competitive gaming/FPS games, and enjoy greater dimming and PQ, yay!

Further notices about latest firmware update: They seem to have fixed the menus so it is now much smoother, also the sharpness has been fixed, menus now look clear and crisp. So all in all, this update seem to have been very good at least for me (besides no changes to game-mode).

*Sorry for double posting.

Last edited by Magnifican; 03-02-2020 at 05:47 PM.
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post #10940 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Magnifican View Post
I have now updated to latest firmware, I had to download it manually and use USB cause my TV didnt find it automatically. After I've done some testing at https://www.testufo.com/ before the update and after. I can confirm that the latency and also mouse lag is indeed improved and much smoother with the latest firmware update when outside of Game-Mode at 4k60hz resolution - this is indeed great news! Before the update there was a huge difference when comparing in and out of Game-mode, the test Ufos stuttered a great deal, now they are much smoother. That said, there is still some difference and Game-mode is indeed clearer still in this test - but less so than before. I suspect then that Samsung may now actually have improved the lag ms slightly, but this is ofc not certain without proper testing like those Rtings does.
I may no longer have to switch in and out of game-mode anymore and just leave it off unless I do competitive gaming/FPS games, and enjoy greater dimming and PQ, yay!

*Sorry for double posting.
Did the local dimming improve at all for game mode with the latest firmware?
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post #10941 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 05:44 PM
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Did the local dimming improve at all for game mode with the latest firmware?
Sadly no. Game-mode has not changed at all from what I could tell. I still have rather dark picture and local dimming does nothing between low/high setting. But thanks to the improved stuff in non-game-mode, I will just leave it off completely for now (again, unless im playing FPS).
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post #10942 of 11203 Old 03-02-2020, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Magnifican View Post
For shooting games etc I use game mode for lower ms. Also, I never use any post-processing stuff, I used to have contrast enhancer in HDR games but since picture gets overblown and colors not accurate, I turned it off (granted its not as bright and less "popping" now, but more accurate), and Game Motion Plus features I only use in PS4 games because its limited to a crappy 30 fps. PS5/Xbox Series X 4k60hz will hopefully be great and we can use Freesync then. Cheers
I will not be using contrast enhancers either, nor will I use motion plus (I prefer my games 30fps).
I'm guessing then that with all the aforementioned features turned off, my games should run with an acceptable input lag outside of game mode.

As mentioned in my earlier post, I still haven't got this TV. Here's hoping that even the game mode would look quite identical to non-game mode!
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post #10943 of 11203 Old 03-03-2020, 05:41 AM
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Ok, so I finally came across a 65Q9FN from a local store in NY, new for 1599. As I mentioned previously, I currently have a 55Q8FN and I am looking to upgrade.

OLED is out because of the burn in, and I game too much. The TV will be used for 70% games, 30% streaming via Nvidia shield TV pro, and 5% cable TV.

Only other current option would be the 65Q90R, but why spend 1000 more when I can get the superior Q9FN?

Here is my question to Q9FN owners. What are your plans for this TV? I am getting the PS5 when it releases, so I am specifically curious about how "future proof" the Q9FN is. The 2019/2020 samsungs are a joke and a step backwards, but I want to make sure that buying a 2018 model in 2020 isnt a dumb thing to do, and I will regret newer features that may be coming (HDMI 2,1?)

Any help/advice would be appreciated. I have had my eye on the Q9FN ever since I bought my Q8FN last year, but I want to make sure I am making the right decision.

Thanks all.

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post #10944 of 11203 Old 03-03-2020, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by saiyanzzrage View Post
Ok, so I finally came across a 65Q9FN from a local store in NY, new for 1599. As I mentioned previously, I currently have a 55Q8FN and I am looking to upgrade.



OLED is out because of the burn in, and I game too much. The TV will be used for 70% games, 30% streaming via Nvidia shield TV pro, and 5% cable TV.



Only other current option would be the 65Q90R, but why spend 1000 more when I can get the superior Q9FN?



Here is my question to Q9FN owners. What are your plans for this TV? I am getting the PS5 when it releases, so I am specifically curious about how "future proof" the Q9FN is. The 2019/2020 samsungs are a joke and a step backwards, but I want to make sure that buying a 2018 model in 2020 isnt a dumb thing to do, and I will regret newer features that may be coming (HDMI 2,1?)



Any help/advice would be appreciated. I have had my eye on the Q9FN ever since I bought my Q8FN last year, but I want to make sure I am making the right decision.



Thanks all.
You should look at the 2020 vizio quantum if it's available in your area.

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post #10945 of 11203 Old 03-03-2020, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by saiyanzzrage View Post
Ok, so I finally came across a 65Q9FN from a local store in NY, new for 1599. As I mentioned previously, I currently have a 55Q8FN and I am looking to upgrade.

OLED is out because of the burn in, and I game too much. The TV will be used for 70% games, 30% streaming via Nvidia shield TV pro, and 5% cable TV.

Only other current option would be the 65Q90R, but why spend 1000 more when I can get the superior Q9FN?

Here is my question to Q9FN owners. What are your plans for this TV? I am getting the PS5 when it releases, so I am specifically curious about how "future proof" the Q9FN is. The 2019/2020 samsungs are a joke and a step backwards, but I want to make sure that buying a 2018 model in 2020 isnt a dumb thing to do, and I will regret newer features that may be coming (HDMI 2,1?)

Any help/advice would be appreciated. I have had my eye on the Q9FN ever since I bought my Q8FN last year, but I want to make sure I am making the right decision.

Thanks all.
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You should look at the 2020 vizio quantum if it's available in your area.

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I don't know why you're so infatuated with the Vizio Quantum but that TV is OK at best for games, HDCP 2.2 support for only select HDMI ports being one of the primary examples (want HDR mode AND game mode on the same port? Too bad).

I honestly don't know why people feel the need to chime in on an owner's thread about other TVs. We're here to discuss our TV we already purchased, not the alternatives you like (there are other threads for that).
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post #10946 of 11203 Old 03-03-2020, 06:57 AM
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I don't know why you're so infatuated with the Vizio Quantum but that TV is OK at best for games, HDCP 2.2 support for only select HDMI ports being one of the primary examples (want HDR mode AND game mode on the same port? Too bad).



I honestly don't know why people feel the need to chime in on an owner's thread about other TVs. We're here to discuss our TV we already purchased, not the alternatives you like (there are other threads for that).
Read saiyanzzrage's post. He asked for alternatives to Samsung tv's . The 2020 vizio looked decent which is why I recommend he looks into them. No need to get offended. Their new tvs also support 120 hz and freesync for gaming. They definitely sound better than what Samsung is offering in 2020.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/5/21...tum-x-ces-2020

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post #10947 of 11203 Old 03-03-2020, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by saiyanzzrage View Post
Ok, so I finally came across a 65Q9FN from a local store in NY, new for 1599. As I mentioned previously, I currently have a 55Q8FN and I am looking to upgrade.

OLED is out because of the burn in, and I game too much. The TV will be used for 70% games, 30% streaming via Nvidia shield TV pro, and 5% cable TV.

Only other current option would be the 65Q90R, but why spend 1000 more when I can get the superior Q9FN?

Here is my question to Q9FN owners. What are your plans for this TV? I am getting the PS5 when it releases, so I am specifically curious about how "future proof" the Q9FN is. The 2019/2020 samsungs are a joke and a step backwards, but I want to make sure that buying a 2018 model in 2020 isnt a dumb thing to do, and I will regret newer features that may be coming (HDMI 2,1?)

Any help/advice would be appreciated. I have had my eye on the Q9FN ever since I bought my Q8FN last year, but I want to make sure I am making the right decision.

Thanks all.
Yes OLED get burn in but it is rare and that is a great TV for gaming so the gamers say. Looks like your mind is set, which is fine as this is a great set, buy aQ9FN before they are gone......
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post #10948 of 11203 Old 03-03-2020, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiyanzzrage View Post

Here is my question to Q9FN owners. What are your plans for this TV? I am getting the PS5 when it releases, so I am specifically curious about how "future proof" the Q9FN is. The 2019/2020 samsungs are a joke and a step backwards, but I want to make sure that buying a 2018 model in 2020 isnt a dumb thing to do, and I will regret newer features that may be coming (HDMI 2,1?)

Any help/advice would be appreciated. I have had my eye on the Q9FN ever since I bought my Q8FN last year, but I want to make sure I am making the right decision.

Thanks all.
If the only reason you want to hold out for HDMI 2.1 is for the PS5, then it is not worth it to wait, or alter your buying decisions IMO.

The PS5 will be hard pressed to perform any better than 4k 60hz on a good day. That's before we even get in to rumors about potential Ray Tracing capabilities and what that will do to a games performance..

Most high frame rate gaming is probably still going to be limited to 1440p or 1080p on the PS5; which the Q9FN does wonderfully.

If you game on PC, it may be worth it to find an HDMI 2.1 TV. But then, you'd also have to buy a new graphics card. And then hope the existing HDMI 2.1 tvs actually work with 2.1 devices seamlessly right off the bat..(I won't hold my breath).
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post #10949 of 11203 Old 03-03-2020, 09:31 AM
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Is the Q9FN capable of displaying 4k 120hz from next gen consoles?
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post #10950 of 11203 Old 03-03-2020, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by deadacclaim View Post
If the only reason you want to hold out for HDMI 2.1 is for the PS5, then it is not worth it to wait, or alter your buying decisions IMO.

The PS5 will be hard pressed to perform any better than 4k 60hz on a good day. That's before we even get in to rumors about potential Ray Tracing capabilities and what that will do to a games performance..

Most high frame rate gaming is probably still going to be limited to 1440p or 1080p on the PS5; which the Q9FN does wonderfully.

If you game on PC, it may be worth it to find an HDMI 2.1 TV. But then, you'd also have to buy a new graphics card. And then hope the existing HDMI 2.1 tvs actually work with 2.1 devices seamlessly right off the bat..(I won't hold my breath).
ok, you make many great points, thanks for taking the time!
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