2018 Samsung Q9FN ''Owners thread'' ''No price talk'' - Page 367 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10981 of 11208 Old 03-13-2020, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by mombasa123 View Post
Problem with PGenerator on RPi (i assume) is that while it's bit perfect for RGB, the Samsung conversion from RGB to YCbCr is pants. Introduces too many errors and too much discrepancy between RGB & YCbCr (Ted's disk). Is ok for setting Colour but i would not use for calibration.
What do you use then.

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post #10982 of 11208 Old 03-13-2020, 10:46 AM
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Ah...I thought MicroLED was meant to be the next step after OLED, considering the limitations of the technology.
That's what they say, but they been saying that for years so we will see.....Not to mention how good will production units be?
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post #10983 of 11208 Old 03-13-2020, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by papusale View Post
Can anyone report if the 1292 update fixed the local dimming issue with the Game mode?
No, its not fixed. Do yourself 2 favors:

1. use standard/natural mode for gaming
2. keep your tv offline and dont buy samsung. They have destroyed the 2018 models to make them look worse next to the garbage they put out in 2019/2020. I am done with samsung, and preordered a cx oled.
I just ordered the 65 inch q9fn. Should be here next Thursday. So are you saying not to update the TV? What firmware should I be leave in on?

I'm upgrading from a 49inch ks8000. I cant wait for it to come in.
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post #10984 of 11208 Old 03-13-2020, 08:04 PM
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What do you use then.
I really should put all the details in my signature ….

Ted's calibration disk. It's the reference for SDR calibration. I have both the disk & digital download.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...tion-disk.html
https://displaycalibrations.com/index.html
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post #10985 of 11208 Old 03-13-2020, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Losifanatic View Post
I just ordered the 65 inch q9fn. Should be here next Thursday. So are you saying not to update the TV? What firmware should I be leave in on?

I'm upgrading from a 49inch ks8000. I cant wait for it to come in.
Don’t listen to the conspiracy theorists, the majority of us continue to love our TVs and have never had a problem, game mode or otherwise. My TV looks just as good, if not better, as when I first got it.

Why would a company intentionally break their TVs with updates, don’t you think Samsung knows just as well as we do that they’d lose customers with that kind of practice? The fact that they still update their TVs years after they came out shows the opposite, that they want customer loyalty.
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post #10986 of 11208 Old 03-13-2020, 10:06 PM
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Don’t listen to the conspiracy theorists, the majority of us continue to love our TVs and have never had a problem, game mode or otherwise. My TV looks just as good, if not better, as when I first got it.

Why would a company intentionally break their TVs with updates, don’t you think Samsung knows just as well as we do that they’d lose customers with that kind of practice? The fact that they still update their TVs years after they came out shows the opposite, that they want customer loyalty.

Makes sense. I still haven't bought the TV, but have heard some concerning comments from a few owners that the game mode has local dimming issues.
But I'm pretty sure that these are exceptional cases and the majority of the Q9FN models should work as intended with the local dimming while game mode is enabled.
Another thing that comes into my mind is perhaps their settings might be incorrect.

I will still buy the TV within 1-2 months when I get back home, and if anything, I can always return it if there's some issue.
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post #10987 of 11208 Old 03-14-2020, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mombasa123 View Post
I really should put all the details in my signature ….

Ted's calibration disk. It's the reference for SDR calibration. I have both the disk & digital download.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...tion-disk.html
https://displaycalibrations.com/index.html
I got teds disk but with calman home you cannot use it for patern generator, I have been using teds disk with lightspace.

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post #10988 of 11208 Old 03-14-2020, 08:46 AM
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I’m torn ... should I grab the 82 q90r or the 82 q8fn. OR the 75 q9fn???
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post #10989 of 11208 Old 03-14-2020, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by papusale View Post
Makes sense. I still haven't bought the TV, but have heard some concerning comments from a few owners that the game mode has local dimming issues.
Lot of it people that FUBAR settings. I went Natural Pic Mode, done, and living happily ever after.
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post #10990 of 11208 Old 03-14-2020, 11:17 AM
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Lot of it people that FUBAR settings. I went Natural Pic Mode, done, and living happily ever after.
I for one prefer Movie mode, but everybody has different tastes and eyesight. You try them and stick to what you prefer.

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post #10991 of 11208 Old 03-14-2020, 04:43 PM
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Anyone notice that HDR blooming on Apple TV apps is worse than Samsung’s apps? I’m noticing differences on Netflix with Altered Carbon season 2.


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post #10992 of 11208 Old 03-14-2020, 05:47 PM
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I noticed the Nerf in the q9 MONTHS ago and I posted that here months ago. I've had countless Samsung tvs , js9500 , ks9000 , q8fn , q9fn. All of them always look much better for me when they are still priced high. I notice that when the prices drop toward end of their cycles the performance always degraded through FW updates. This idea that manufacturers need to continue patching things have got outta control. As a gamer more and more games come broke and are fixed through patches. Is this the case with these TV's as well ? I'm not sure why a 2yr old tv to 3yrs still needs patches. Also I see comments saying " why would a company mess up their products " ummm have you guys not read the news and kept up with the class action lawsuits ? Apple and Samsung have already been caught red handed doing this. It's not and IF. it's ALREADY been ESTABLISHED that these companies do this to force upgrades... I can't speak for everyone BUT I will say I remember a time when the q9 would boost brightness of logos and small areas way better than they do now. It's almost like the different local dimming settings don't have much effect... What I would like to be seen done is a site like RTINGS test or users on this forum with the equipment to test the nits. It's never reported what the new brightness is. I'm really curious if the same tests were done today that RTINGS did in 2018 what would the results be ? I'm still happy with my q9 don't get me wrong. I play on keeping it for years to come because it will still play my next gen games at 1440p 120hz and I think that's close enough to hdmi2.1 to save my $ and not buy a new TV but the fact remains that from my trained eye these TV's do suffer performance dips through FW updates.
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post #10993 of 11208 Old 03-14-2020, 06:11 PM
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...
the fact remains that from my trained eye these TV's do suffer performance dips through FW updates.
And I'm sure your "trained eye" has seen every model and sample out there. Well, for my "untrained eye" after almost two years and with the latest firmware my 75Q9FN looks the best it's had. So we can agree to disagree. I must admit I don't game though, and I calibrate my display.

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post #10994 of 11208 Old 03-14-2020, 10:35 PM
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Well Ive owned the js8500,js9500,b6 oled ,c6 oled , x900e , 930e , ks9000, ks9800, Vizio quantum x , q8fn , q9fn , tcl 6 series , c7 oled , 900f , hisense h9 and that's just over the last few years , I won't list the past 10 years , but point is , I've studied these TV's across various brands and I spend hours on hours using all them , calibration , owning them across the span of several FW updates , the slightest change I can quickly notice , in fact I have had numerous panels replaced noticing issues that technicians were quick to dismiss but pushed for further testing and they found , light bleed , uneven light distribution , alot of these TV's come defective btw. Will you dismiss the panel lottery also ? Or how about the fact that alot of these panels are outsourced and some versions are inferior to the Samsung model panels , you can buy a Samsung q8 and I may get a fa01 that looks excellent but you may get an aa01 and side by side you may think they are different models (I had this happen to me once ) so yeah I don't trust these brands. A newer FW was installed on its own onto my tv even with the option off. There's a backdoor way they can upgrade your tv through smart hub , I'm happy your happy with your model but fact is that there are class action lawsuits against these brands that have been put in place and it's already established that they break our products in order to force upgrades. I can guarantee that if a nit test was performed on our TV's they would be significantly lower than at launch.
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post #10995 of 11208 Old 03-15-2020, 04:41 AM
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Can we get this thread back on topic please? None of us want to talk about your 15 TV exchange/returns because you're looking for some elusive, mythical, perfect TV.

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post #10996 of 11208 Old 03-15-2020, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by saint964 View Post
I got teds disk but with calman home you cannot use it for patern generator, I have been using teds disk with lightspace.
Ted's disk has Calman workflows & he supplies batch files to semi automate pattern generation unless you mean for AutoCal?

That would be correct but I personally prefer manual calibration as can get much better results. I have an average dE of < 0.18 on WB for example.

Last edited by mombasa123; 03-15-2020 at 06:37 AM.
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post #10997 of 11208 Old 03-15-2020, 06:38 AM
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Ted's disk has Calman workflows & he supplies batch files to semi automate pattern generation so I don't get you point.
So if I read this good I can go in Calman to Ted's files, were you normaly choose Calman you choose Ted's files, tried it but you need an source. As source you can use mobilforge, Lightspace connect and RPI that's what I know.

65QE9FN

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post #10998 of 11208 Old 03-15-2020, 07:34 AM
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Pick 'manual' as the Source. Then, in combination with Ted's batch files you can run through a calibration pretty quickly.

Ted will have sent you emails on how to use. It's on his website too.
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post #10999 of 11208 Old 03-15-2020, 08:20 AM
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Oke never knew this I'm going to read at his site, what to do and how.

Thnx for the info.

65QE9FN
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post #11000 of 11208 Old 03-16-2020, 12:32 PM
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For what its worth, I've had the 75Q9FN since October 2018, and Game mode has always had worse local dimming performance.

It wasn't nerfed; it just took a while for people to notice.

I should also say, if you are gaming in 1440 or 1080p at 120hz, you really don't need to have the TV in Game mode to get great input lag.

At 60hz, the difference is really noticeable (I think Rtings shows 30ms decrease). At 120hz, the difference in input lag is nearly imperceptible.
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post #11001 of 11208 Old 03-17-2020, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by deadacclaim View Post
For what its worth, I've had the 75Q9FN since October 2018, and Game mode has always had worse local dimming performance.

It wasn't nerfed; it just took a while for people to notice.

I should also say, if you are gaming in 1440 or 1080p at 120hz, you really don't need to have the TV in Game mode to get great input lag.

At 60hz, the difference is really noticeable (I think Rtings shows 30ms decrease). At 120hz, the difference in input lag is nearly imperceptible.

Is the local dimming difference between the game-mode and normal mode that noticeable?
If so, how much?

I am really looking into buying this TV, and the main selling point is the local dimming. But if the TV does not utilize it that much in game-mode, then I don´t see it being worth it. However if it at least utilizes 50% of the full potential of the local dimming, that should be quite enough for me to buy it.

An articulated explanation on how the local dimming suffers in game mode compared to normal mode would be much appreciated!
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post #11002 of 11208 Old 03-17-2020, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by papusale View Post
Is the local dimming difference between the game-mode and normal mode that noticeable?

If so, how much?



I am really looking into buying this TV, and the main selling point is the local dimming. But if the TV does not utilize it that much in game-mode, then I don´t see it being worth it. However if it at least utilizes 50% of the full potential of the local dimming, that should be quite enough for me to buy it.



An articulated explanation on how the local dimming suffers in game mode compared to normal mode would be much appreciated!
Don't let people and difference of opinion sway you because you have to remember that everyone has their settings to in a differently to their specific liking. Case in point I myself had the Q8FN before I swapped it out for the Q9FN...... But truth be told I thought that game mode on the Q8FN looked better to me at the time, however I love my Q9FN. Because game mode still looks good to me on this set.... as does movies! But I have it set to how I like it. So you will get a fantastic set in the Q9FN.... but just set it to your tastes. Hope you enjoy!

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post #11003 of 11208 Old 03-19-2020, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Damar1979 View Post
Don't let people and difference of opinion sway you because you have to remember that everyone has their settings to in a differently to their specific liking. Case in point I myself had the Q8FN before I swapped it out for the Q9FN...... But truth be told I thought that game mode on the Q8FN looked better to me at the time, however I love my Q9FN. Because game mode still looks good to me on this set.... as does movies! But I have it set to how I like it. So you will get a fantastic set in the Q9FN.... but just set it to your tastes. Hope you enjoy!

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
Unless it is a family TV then everyone has to like your settings or just too bad. That is why the Samsung engineer's default settings are a good choice and give a great picture without settings distortions.
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post #11004 of 11208 Old 03-19-2020, 08:12 PM
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Wow is all I can say. The q9fn is a great looking TV. It's definitely an improvement over the ks8000. Its brighter, sharper, nicer looking blacks, and the color pops more. So very happy with my purchase!
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post #11005 of 11208 Old 03-20-2020, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Losifanatic View Post
Wow is all I can say. The q9fn is a great looking TV. It's definitely an improvement over the ks8000. Its brighter, sharper, nicer looking blacks, and the color pops more. So very happy with my purchase!
Happy for you!
I am also looking to buy this model. However there have been some word about the latest update causing issues on the Game mode. Not sure if you are going to play games with it, but if you are, would you mind seeing how the local dimming works in Game mode?
Just need to make sure that people how are having issues with it has to do with the settings rather than the firmware update.
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post #11006 of 11208 Old 03-20-2020, 10:39 PM
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Happy for you!

I am also looking to buy this model. However there have been some word about the latest update causing issues on the Game mode. Not sure if you are going to play games with it, but if you are, would you mind seeing how the local dimming works in Game mode?

Just need to make sure that people how are having issues with it has to do with the settings rather than the firmware update.
Had this tv for a year now. The game mode issue must be seen as relative. Yes, game mode local dimming is nowhere near as good as non-game mode. This isn't an update issue, it's been like that since I got the TV. However, the non-game mode dimming is right up there with the top LED tvs in the world.....game mode still looks great relative to the majority of other LED tvs.

My friend has a q7fn and game mode dimming and black levels are way way better on the Q9fn (Q7 is edge lit and it shows compared to Q9). Then take game mode motion smoothing and freesync and this is still a great gaming TV. Do I wish game mode dimming was better? Yes, but compared to other LED tvs this is still a top notch gaming set.

Finally, on the update that allegedly broke HDR brightness that people reported, I got out my nit meter. Game mode brightness is still about where it was before in terms of total nit ouput.....and as before, movie and standard mode go brighter by a fair bit in some scenes prob due to samsungs aggresive (overbright) EOTF tracking. Tested against my friends Q7FN with a nit meter, the Q9FN is brighter in game mode than the Q7FN in any mode and in all types of scenes (Q7 HDR brightness is the same in game mode, movie and standard mode).

The only thing that really annoys me with this set is DSE, which I'm starting to notice more in normal viewing content and not just sports. Generally when gaming though I rarely notice it. This is set specific though so your mileage may vary.

In summary then, given the reduced price of this tv and given the lack of major advancement of newer models, I would still choose this TV today. The only missing gaming feature is HDMI 2.1. If you want 4k 120hz then 2019 Q90r may be better choice. For gaming at 4k 60fps with HDR this is still a very competitive TV. For 60fps games, input lag is much lower so for some games you can get away with playing outside of game mode. Then you get best of eveything outside of a bit more lag. 30fps game feel very laggy outside of game mode though.

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post #11007 of 11208 Old 03-21-2020, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Losifanatic View Post
Wow is all I can say. The q9fn is a great looking TV. It's definitely an improvement over the ks8000. Its brighter, sharper, nicer looking blacks, and the color pops more. So very happy with my purchase!
Happy for you!
I am also looking to buy this model. However there have been some word about the latest update causing issues on the Game mode. Not sure if you are going to play games with it, but if you are, would you mind seeing how the local dimming works in Game mode?
Just need to make sure that people how are having issues with it has to do with the settings rather than the firmware update.
Thank you.

My son is in college and he took his consoles with him so I have no way to test out game mode.
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post #11008 of 11208 Old 03-21-2020, 05:58 PM
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Question, is anyone else here having issues with VUDU playing in UHD after the latest update? Every time I try it just freezes.

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post #11009 of 11208 Old 03-22-2020, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SeanZCT View Post
Had this tv for a year now. The game mode issue must be seen as relative. Yes, game mode local dimming is nowhere near as good as non-game mode. This isn't an update issue, it's been like that since I got the TV. However, the non-game mode dimming is right up there with the top LED tvs in the world.....game mode still looks great relative to the majority of other LED tvs.

My friend has a q7fn and game mode dimming and black levels are way way better on the Q9fn (Q7 is edge lit and it shows compared to Q9). Then take game mode motion smoothing and freesync and this is still a great gaming TV. Do I wish game mode dimming was better? Yes, but compared to other LED tvs this is still a top notch gaming set.

Finally, on the update that allegedly broke HDR brightness that people reported, I got out my nit meter. Game mode brightness is still about where it was before in terms of total nit ouput.....and as before, movie and standard mode go brighter by a fair bit in some scenes prob due to samsungs aggresive (overbright) EOTF tracking. Tested against my friends Q7FN with a nit meter, the Q9FN is brighter in game mode than the Q7FN in any mode and in all types of scenes (Q7 HDR brightness is the same in game mode, movie and standard mode).

The only thing that really annoys me with this set is DSE, which I'm starting to notice more in normal viewing content and not just sports. Generally when gaming though I rarely notice it. This is set specific though so your mileage may vary.

In summary then, given the reduced price of this tv and given the lack of major advancement of newer models, I would still choose this TV today. The only missing gaming feature is HDMI 2.1. If you want 4k 120hz then 2019 Q90r may be better choice. For gaming at 4k 60fps with HDR this is still a very competitive TV. For 60fps games, input lag is much lower so for some games you can get away with playing outside of game mode. Then you get best of eveything outside of a bit more lag. 30fps game feel very laggy outside of game mode though.

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Thank you very much for the detailed explanation!

Rtings is stating that with local dimming, the contrast ratio is around 19 000:1, while native contrast is at 6000:1. Now my question is: does game mode utilize local dimming to any degree or is it completely shut off? If it does use local dimming, how is it inferior to the non-game local dimming (are the blacks more elevated or is there simply blooming, or both?)
I would be fine even if the contrast ratio is about half of the non-game mode (at around 10 000:1), but if it cannot reach those numbers for game mode and would only utilize the native contrast of 6000:1, then I would stick with the KS8000 model (which can hit around 7000:1 native contrast).

Sorry to ask, but if it´s not too much of an effort for you, would you be able to send game mode and non-game mode comparison pictures using a dark scene with a few heavily bright parts? This would really give me an excellent indication on the difference.

Cheers and stay safe!
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post #11010 of 11208 Old 03-22-2020, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by papusale View Post
Thank you very much for the detailed explanation!

Rtings is stating that with local dimming, the contrast ratio is around 19 000:1, while native contrast is at 6000:1. Now my question is: does game mode utilize local dimming to any degree or is it completely shut off? If it does use local dimming, how is it inferior to the non-game local dimming (are the blacks more elevated or is there simply blooming, or both?)
I would be fine even if the contrast ratio is about half of the non-game mode (at around 10 000:1), but if it cannot reach those numbers for game mode and would only utilize the native contrast of 6000:1, then I would stick with the KS8000 model (which can hit around 7000:1 native contrast).

Sorry to ask, but if it´s not too much of an effort for you, would you be able to send game mode and non-game mode comparison pictures using a dark scene with a few heavily bright parts? This would really give me an excellent indication on the difference.

Cheers and stay safe!

Hi! Local dimming is still working fine in game mode, but it's much less aggressive. This can be good because there is less black crushing but there is more blooming on the other hand. I'm on 1270 firmware.

Personally I don't use game mode. I use movie mode in 2560x1440 x 120hz and 1920x1080 x 120hz resolutions. As long as you feed 120hz, the input lag is almost non existent so you can have superior movie mode, best local dimming and low input lag at the same time. If you can feed this q9fn with 120hz you don't need game mode at all.
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