Originally Posted by UnfoldingSquid
It's not the TV "upconverting" the frame rate, the TVs display the frame rate that is broadcast from the source. Most TV and streaming sites broadcast in 30Hz or 60Hz, but their are devices like Apple TV and Fire Sticks that have settings to Match Frame Rate. If I set Match Frame Rate on my Apple TV and press the info button on a movie in Vudu it will show 1080/24p or 2160/24p.
Understood, I am seeing conflicting information as some say that what the TV reports via it's OSD, is simply the signal it is receiving from the source, not the refresh rate it is putting out. Others say that it takes that signal (for example 1080p24) and simply reproduces it at the native refresh rate of the panel, whether that's cleanly divisible at 120Hz or 3:2 pulldown via 60Hz.
Rtings recommends turning on Auto Motion Plus for this TV and leaving the sliders at 0 to remove judder from 24p content (this applies to BluRay players, Consoles, PC's, Streaming Devices). They recommend similiar settings on other TV's for the same de-judder result.
This is what they have to say about their testing methods / 24p judder..
Judder Free 24p on 24Hz Signal
"This evaluation verifies whether a TV has judder on 24p videos sent via a 24Hz signal. This will tell you whether a DVD or Blu-ray player or a TV’s native streaming services, will have judder when playing movies. If you’re a big movie buff and use one of those mediums to watch movies, this test is somewhat important (more important if you’re bothered by 24p judder)."
Judder Free 24p on 60p Signal
"This test is to determine whether a TV has judder on 24p videos sent via a 60p signal. This will tell you whether movies played over a 60p signal (streaming devices, game consoles, etc) will have judder. If you hate judder and watch movies over one of those devices, you should get a TV that passes this test.
This test uses the same test process used in the judder-free 24p test, but with the 24p video sent over a 60hz progressive (60p) signal. To pass, a TV must be able to recognize that a 24 fps video is playing over a 60p signal, and adjust its refresh rate so that the video is played at 24 frames per second.
Once again, if the color of the squares in the resulting photo is not even, the TV has judder."
What are your thoughts on this? Do you stand by the belief that what the TV reports via it's OSD is the current TV's refresh rate? Do you have any way to quantify this and disprove the alternative take that I provided above? I don't understand why a TV would have judder and require the Auto Motion Plus settings on and both at 0 to remove judder on a 24Hz signal, where each frame should be perfectly delivered..
I can confirm running my TV at 2160p60 and turning on Game Motion Plus (since I'm using Game Mode) but leaving both sliders at 0, does indeed remove judder from 24p content. I just figured things like BluRay players send a 24Hz signal since that's all that's playing on the device (rather than a PC with a 60Hz or higher operating system as default) and when the TV gets that 24Hz signal from a BluRay player for example it reproduces that 24Hz at 60Hz or whatever the TV's native refresh rate is.
Interested to hear your thoughts after reading the above, I can also sort of interpret Rtings statement on 24p via 24Hz as meaning the TV does run at 24Hz, but don't understand why the motion settings are required to remove judder from that, and why it wouldnt just work if that was the case, instead my initial understanding of 24p being fed into 60/120hz would answer why we need the de-judder motion setting switched on, that's all I've got..
EDIT: Further down the article in a part labelled "THE CAUSE OF JUDDER ON 24P VIDEO
" it seems to indicate I am right in my understanding of how this all works.
"TVs commonly have one of two refresh rates: 60Hz and 120Hz. 30Hz and 60Hz videos divide into those refresh rates evenly, which makes it easy for the TV panel to get the video to meet the panel refresh rate. For example, a 30Hz TV show would have each frame displayed four times on a 120Hz panel.
Likewise, most 120Hz panels can display 24Hz video without issue, because 24 goes into 120 five times. But some 60Hz TVs have difficulty. Because 24 does not divide into 60 evenly, doubling the frame rate still leaves 12 frames missing from meeting the TV’s refresh rate. To get to 60 fps, 60Hz TVs use a feature called ‘telecine,’ or 3:2 pulldown. This makes the video’s frames alternate displaying two and three times – hence 3:2 – which makes up the missing frames. The image below illustrates this."
They never really mention or confirm that a 24 can run at 24Hz, rather they always go into how a 24Hz signal is taken and fit into the TV's native refresh rate, so I believe I am right in saying that 24fps content or 24Hz signals, including 30fps content as well, simply has it's frame rate multiplied to fit perfectly into the refresh rate or via pulldown, and Auto Motion Plus / Game Motion Plus is required to alleviate this issue if you're running 2160p60 and not 1080p120 / 1440p120
I'd still like to hear your thoughts in case you feel I'm misinterpreting something in the article, or perhaps you come out with the same outcome as me..