2018 Sony XBR 900F owners thread (No Price Talk) - Page 138 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4111 of 10125 Old 11-14-2018, 04:01 PM
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Maybe you're describing the semi-gloss panel finish vs the glossy finish on the Samsung? The semi-gloss finish on the Sony is slightly hazy and acts as an anti-reflection filter, although it also slightly affects picture quality. Glossy panels like on the Samsung TVs will definitely seem clearer side-by-side, although the anti-reflection coating used on glossy panels are more prone to DSE.

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post #4112 of 10125 Old 11-14-2018, 04:45 PM
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Maybe you're describing the semi-gloss panel finish vs the glossy finish on the Samsung? The semi-gloss finish on the Sony is slightly hazy and acts as an anti-reflection filter, although it also slightly affects picture quality. Glossy panels like on the Samsung TVs will definitely seem clearer side-by-side, although the anti-reflection coating used on glossy panels are more prone to DSE.
That sounds correct Yukon but also it does seem like samsung does something to filter things as well.There are much fewer picture setting options on the nu8000 and QF7 and somethings you cant turn off..I know the sony has worse reflection in my room than the samsungs did.I can see everything reflect off the sony,samsung not much at all.

Yes a ton of people mention issues with dse on their samsung tvs.All of my sets were ok with that.

I am fine with this tv moving forward tho.I just wanted to post my thoughts on both tvs to help others or give them different opinions on similar price tvs or tvs that are closer in comparison if they are on a budget.I read roughly 1000 reviews before buying products but nothing like viewing things for yourself.
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post #4113 of 10125 Old 11-14-2018, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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The new tv stand is up and I can definitely recommend it for this 85” beast. Sony HT-ST5000 sound bar sits perfectly on it as well. I can sleep at night now not having to worry about glass breaking.
Looks great, now enjoy that beast? What did you watch first?
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post #4114 of 10125 Old 11-14-2018, 06:48 PM
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Please stop using ‘grain’ and ‘noise’ interchangeably.
Its what it is,simple as that.I have had people not know what I meant until I said both.I don't assume.Also I don't look at them as the same thing on certain sources which I is why I say both.
It can’t be both, and honestly, using this terminology interchangeably doesn’t really help with attempting to figure out what you’re experiencing. If you’re talking about grain, that’s an inherent part of the image for most things out there and not a defect and doesn’t indicate anything is wrong.

Noise is usually the result of bad compression or extreme sharpening or the like and may be the result of a ‘garbage in, garbage out’ scenario.

In one scenario we can dismiss your ‘issue’, in the other we have to consider the source and how good the quality is on it and why it ended up looking ‘better’ on the TV you’re contrasting the 900F with (probably had some filtering options on by default).

Grain = part of film and where detail comes from. Noise = bad.
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post #4115 of 10125 Old 11-14-2018, 06:53 PM
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The new tv stand is up and I can definitely recommend it for this 85” beast. Sony HT-ST5000 sound bar sits perfectly on it as well. I can sleep at night now not having to worry about glass breaking.
Looks great, now enjoy that beast? What did you watch first?
I don’t even remember tbh. Been watching so much content on it especially movies with Dolby Vision and Atmos. Last night we watched Aplha in Dolby Vision and it looked incredible. Dolby Vision is a must have once you expierence it. I am hooked now!
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post #4116 of 10125 Old 11-14-2018, 07:32 PM
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OMG! But why did you change the 900F for the first time?
Well on my cable channels and netflix there is a good amount of noise and grain.So I thought maybe I had a bad panel but I guess its just how it is on this tv.

There was barely any on the NU8000 and Q7FN.My only guess it is the screen finish on the Tvs.The Samsungs are so much clearer.

In my mini reviews I mentioned I wish the 900F had the Samsung screen because everything would be so much clearer.Mainly because even with the noise the 900F still has better color and detail in PQ.Honestly if the samsung didnt click or make noise and looked better on gaming I may have chose the Q8F.I think there just is no perfect tv now.Its crazy because I had my LCD for 10 years and never had 1 issue or problem with it.Since September I have had 4 tvs and still not 100% happy.

You get what I am saying?
Its hard to explain
I experience the same thing coming from a 2016 LG SUHD LED 4K. I got rid of it because of the terrible blacks and blooming, but I have to admit, it handled 720p/1080i sources better. Not sure if the 900f is just showing more detail therefore more grain is visible. But a good example was I always watch young Frankenstein around Halloween on Netflix and when I watched it on the 900f. The noise was pretty bad. I know it's an old movie but it honestly looked like bad noise and not good grain. On the older LG, this film looked very clear. With that said however, 4k gaming/ programming and anything with HDR /dolby vision continues to amaze.
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post #4117 of 10125 Old 11-14-2018, 09:01 PM
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It can’t be both, and honestly, using this terminology interchangeably doesn’t really help with attempting to figure out what you’re experiencing. If you’re talking about grain, that’s an inherent part of the image for most things out there and not a defect and doesn’t indicate anything is wrong.

Noise is usually the result of bad compression or extreme sharpening or the like and may be the result of a ‘garbage in, garbage out’ scenario.

In one scenario we can dismiss your ‘issue’, in the other we have to consider the source and how good the quality is on it and why it ended up looking ‘better’ on the TV you’re contrasting the 900F with (probably had some filtering options on by default).

Grain = part of film and where detail comes from. Noise = bad.
I understand and I agree but my issue was why wasn't this on the NU8000 or Q7F and I wish it wasn't on the sony to this extent.

Yes I would say on dish network cable the issue is noise only but we know its not a great signal or great source.

Netflix is overly grainy on things

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I experience the same thing coming from a 2016 LG SUHD LED 4K. I got rid of it because of the terrible blacks and blooming, but I have to admit, it handled 720p/1080i sources better. Not sure if the 900f is just showing more detail therefore more grain is visible. But a good example was I always watch young Frankenstein around Halloween on Netflix and when I watched it on the 900f. The noise was pretty bad. I know it's an old movie but it honestly looked like bad noise and not good grain. On the older LG, this film looked very clear. With that said however, 4k gaming/ programming and anything with HDR /dolby vision continues to amaze.
Yes I agree and what Im saying.It shouldn't look that bad at times.I also thought maybe the tv is so much detailed that just it shows more good and the bad.Gaming wise and DV I have no issues at all.

Last edited by wallyesquire; 11-14-2018 at 09:13 PM.
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post #4118 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 02:07 AM
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Anyone with an Apple TV 4K. Do you set your output to 4K and let the Apple TV upscale to 4K? Is the upscaling with the X1 Extreme chip better than what the Apple TV can do?
I wish besides the ‘Match Dynamic Range’ and ‘Match Frame Rate’ there was a ‘Match Resolution’. I’ve watched 1080 Netflix content and let both the ATV4K and the 900F do the upscaling, I don’t see much difference, the ATV does a pretty good job. So I set my ATV to 4K.

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post #4119 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 06:51 AM
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I understand and I agree but my issue was why wasn't this on the NU8000 or Q7F and I wish it wasn't on the sony to this extent.

Yes I would say on dish network cable the issue is noise only but we know its not a great signal or great source.

Netflix is overly grainy on things



Yes I agree and what Im saying.It shouldn't look that bad at times.I also thought maybe the tv is so much detailed that just it shows more good and the bad.Gaming wise and DV I have no issues at all.
Because some default setting on the Samsungs may be averaging out the edges so it looks smoother. Try playing with the sharpness, gradation and noise reduction settings and see if you come up with something that you prefer. You may lose some of what you like more about the Sony in the process or find a nice middle ground.
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post #4121 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 07:32 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the X900F...

HDR upscaling is off (by selecting the True Cinema mode), correct? I assume most people do not use this setting as upscaling SDR cable content to HDR content ruins the natural/intended look?
Or am I wrong on both ? Reason I ask is there is a lot of talk/hype with the upscaling on this set.

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post #4122 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 07:42 AM
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Hi KoRn, would you mind sharing your Dolby vision setting.
On my TV, Dolby vision on netflix through app on TV looks dull, graying and dark, even the scean is at daylight . Regular HD is really good. I tried playing with setting but it looks horrible. Other HD contents looks really good.

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The new tv stand is up and I can definitely recommend it for this 85” beast. Sony HT-ST5000 sound bar sits perfectly on it as well. I can sleep at night now not having to worry about glass breaking.
Looks great, now enjoy that beast? What did you watch first?
I don’t even remember tbh. Been watching so much content on it especially movies with Dolby Vision and Atmos. Last night we watched Aplha in Dolby Vision and it looked incredible. Dolby Vision is a must have once you expierence it. I am hooked now!
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post #4123 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 08:08 AM
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Hi KoRn, would you mind sharing your Dolby vision setting.
On my TV, Dolby vision on netflix through app on TV looks dull, graying and dark, even the scean is at daylight . Regular HD is really good. I tried playing with setting but it looks horrible. Other HD contents looks really good.

Ozark is off a bit regardless. I think that was 'intent' for the feel of the show or could just be poorly done DV. I was a bit put off by it myself but not with other material.


Have you watched anything else to be sure it isn't that content specifically? You felt the same way?
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post #4124 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 08:25 AM
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What show you suggest on Netflix to test Dolby Vision?

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Hi KoRn, would you mind sharing your Dolby vision setting.
On my TV, Dolby vision on netflix through app on TV looks dull, graying and dark, even the scean is at daylight . Regular HD is really good. I tried playing with setting but it looks horrible. Other HD contents looks really good.

Ozark is off a bit regardless. I think that was 'intent' for the feel of the show or could just be poorly done DV. I was a bit put off by it myself but not with other material.


Have you watched anything else to be sure it isn't that content specifically? You felt the same way?
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post #4125 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 08:30 AM
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Ozark is definitely dark, filmed through a blue filter to give that ominous look. You could adjust the Gamma to lighten it up a bit, but it will still have that dark look.

There are numerous Netflix shows in DV which are better representations of the technology.

Spoiler!
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post #4126 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 08:31 AM
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What show you suggest on Netflix to test Dolby Vision?
Try Altered Carbon or Stranger Things.

Spoiler!
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post #4127 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 08:33 AM
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Because some default setting on the Samsungs may be averaging out the edges so it looks smoother. Try playing with the sharpness, gradation and noise reduction settings and see if you come up with something that you prefer. You may lose some of what you like more about the Sony in the process or find a nice middle ground.
Yea I mentioned that the samsung is clearer and cleaner right out the box but loses a ton of detail and looks plastic at times especially on people and their skin tones.I found a nice setting that is fine but some channels have worse signals and will be terrible regardless lol.Thats not the sonys fault.A garbage source is a garbage source at times.

Thanks for the help everyone.
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post #4128 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 08:33 AM
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What show you suggest on Netflix to test Dolby Vision?
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Ozark is definitely dark, filmed through a blue filter to give that ominous look. You could adjust the Gamma to lighten it up a bit, but it will still have that dark look.

There are numerous Netflix shows in DV which are better representations of the technology.

Godless comes to mind immediately. Lost in Space is DV. Stranger Things (I think it is in DV) is dark but done well. But as Rick stated, there are quite a few to view. If I remember correctly, you can just search for 4K UHD and try a few that come up.

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post #4129 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 08:45 AM
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Is all netflix HDR DV?

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post #4130 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 08:46 AM
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I feel so stupid now! I tested on both the shows you suggested and it looks great!
All this time I was trying to fix Ozark to look normal lol



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What show you suggest on Netflix to test Dolby Vision?
Try Altered Carbon or Stranger Things.
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post #4131 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 09:15 AM
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I feel so stupid now! I tested on both the shows you suggested and it looks great!
All this time I was trying to fix Ozark to look normal lol

No need to feel stupid. Glad you found resolution. Now go enjoy your television.
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post #4132 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 09:16 AM
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Excellent! I tried what you mentioned and all look great! So I was testing DV content on wrong show 🙂

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What show you suggest on Netflix to test Dolby Vision?
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Ozark is definitely dark, filmed through a blue filter to give that ominous look. You could adjust the Gamma to lighten it up a bit, but it will still have that dark look.

There are numerous Netflix shows in DV which are better representations of the technology.

Godless comes to mind immediately. Lost in Space is DV. Stranger Things (I think it is in DV) is dark but done well. But as Rick stated, there are quite a few to view. If I remember correctly, you can just search for 4K UHD and try a few that come up.
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post #4133 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 09:29 AM
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Is all netflix HDR DV?

I think that everything available in HDR10 is also available in DV and will default to display whatever mode your devices are capable of with DV being the override if it can do both.
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post #4134 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 09:56 AM
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I feel so stupid now! I tested on both the shows you suggested and it looks great!
All this time I was trying to fix Ozark to look normal lol
Certainly don't feel stupid. We all thought Ozark was off and tried to fix it. It was the way it was filmed. We really like the show though it isn’t a great advertisement for DV capabilities.

Spoiler!
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post #4135 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 10:07 AM
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After almost a week of use, I am
Very impressed with the PQ of tv content, directv in my case, DTv 4K is lot better, 1080p content from amazon prime and other providers on appletv is very good also. I have not used cable ever since I have larger sets as compression on signal is much worse on larger set. It is unfair to judge the this or any 4K tv performance with poor input material.
The android interface is ok, is there a way to get rid of apps that I don’t need, like on Roku or appletv one can eliminate or hide it. I don’t use smart tv that much as I use appletv mostly which has much refined decluttered interface,
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post #4136 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 10:14 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the X900F...

HDR upscaling is off (by selecting the True Cinema mode), correct? I assume most people do not use this setting as upscaling SDR cable content to HDR content ruins the natural/intended look?
Or am I wrong on both ? Reason I ask is there is a lot of talk/hype with the upscaling on this set.
So where you seem to be confused is what is and can be "upscaled" and I think you are confusing SD to HD to UHD(4k) with SDR and HDR.

SDR can not be "upscaled" or converted to HDR by your tv....because SDR and HDR are not resolutions....those terms generally represent the A) ability/capability of the tv to render an image with increased contrast and richer colours\separation. ie not all 4K tv's are HDR capable. B) Content being played will only display in HDR if that source material was mastered in/for HDR.

When people are talking about the "upscaling" they are strictly talking about resolution and the ability of a tv to display content mastered in 1080p and under on a screen with a higher resolution. So standard cable broadcasts are typically 720p/1080i,... both of which are considered HD signals, SD (Standard definition) typically range of 240 to 480. The 4k TV (regardless of brand) will take that signal and amplify, enlarge, reinterpret or "upscale" that signal to a 4k signal in order to display it on your 4k screen. This can introduce artifacts, sharpness issues (which is why you sometimes hear about people saying an image looks "soft"), etc.. At no point will your tv try to convert any SDR format signal to HDR.

Sony's method for upscaling is considered among, if not the best currently because it seems to do it without causing a lot of artifacts or other noticeable degradations of the image (of course this also depends on the source and content being upscaled).

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post #4137 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 10:18 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the X900F...

HDR upscaling is off (by selecting the True Cinema mode), correct? I assume most people do not use this setting as upscaling SDR cable content to HDR content ruins the natural/intended look?
Or am I wrong on both ? Reason I ask is there is a lot of talk/hype with the upscaling on this set.
So where you seem to be confused is what is and can be "upscaled" and I think you are confusing SD to HD to UHD(4k) with SDR and HDR.
SDR can not be "upscaled" to HDR....because SDR and HDR are not resolutions....those terms generally represent the A) ability/capability of the tv to render an image with increased contrast and richer colours\separation. ie not all 4K tv's are HDR capable. B) Content being played will only display in HDR if that source material was mastered in/for HDR.

When people are talking about the "upscaling" they are strictly talking about resolution and the ability of a tv to display content mastered in 1080p and under on a screen with a higher resolution. So standard cable broadcasts are typically 720p/1080i,... both of which are considered HD signals, SD (Standard definition) typically range of 240 to 480. The 4k TV (regardless of brand) will take that signal and amplify, enlarge, reinterpret or "upscale" that signal to a 4k signal in order to display it on your 4k screen. This can introduce artifacts, sharpness issues (which is why you sometimes hear about people saying an image looks "soft"), etc.. At no point will your tv try to convert any SDR format signal to HDR.
But isn’t xtended dynamic range sort of ‘hdr-ing’ sdr content? Not amazingly so granted, but I sort of thought that was part of its function with sdr stuff.
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post #4138 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bodean View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the X900F...

HDR upscaling is off (by selecting the True Cinema mode), correct? I assume most people do not use this setting as upscaling SDR cable content to HDR content ruins the natural/intended look?
Or am I wrong on both ? Reason I ask is there is a lot of talk/hype with the upscaling on this set.
is this correct? that's annoying bc Rtings calibration settings suggests to enable True Cinema without telling you that it would disable HDR upscaling.
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post #4139 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 10:29 AM
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about to lose it with my Apple TV 4.

i have followed all of the suggestions of this forum but cannot seem to get the ATV to output 4k resolution or HDR. i have connected to HDMI port 2 and selected "enhanced hdmi" for bandwith. initially i used a monoprice certified premium hi speed cable and then took this forum's suggestion to try another cable (which i did, i went with the Belkin hi speed cable that apple recommends) and still nothing. on the TV picture settings i have HDR enabled to "auto" bc the HDR10 selection looks all distorted. I cant seem to get ATV to pass 4k HDR. the in tv apps (netflix) work fine for showing HDR. i've gone into the ATV settings and tried to select 'other resolutions" but not seeing anything close to HDR or 4k resolution. any other tips?
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post #4140 of 10125 Old 11-15-2018, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by hky4life View Post
So where you seem to be confused is what is and can be "upscaled" and I think you are confusing SD to HD to UHD(4k) with SDR and HDR.

SDR can not be "upscaled" or converted to HDR by your tv....because SDR and HDR are not resolutions....those terms generally represent the A) ability/capability of the tv to render an image with increased contrast and richer colours\separation. ie not all 4K tv's are HDR capable. B) Content being played will only display in HDR if that source material was mastered in/for HDR.

When people are talking about the "upscaling" they are strictly talking about resolution and the ability of a tv to display content mastered in 1080p and under on a screen with a higher resolution. So standard cable broadcasts are typically 720p/1080i,... both of which are considered HD signals, SD (Standard definition) typically range of 240 to 480. The 4k TV (regardless of brand) will take that signal and amplify, enlarge, reinterpret or "upscale" that signal to a 4k signal in order to display it on your 4k screen. This can introduce artifacts, sharpness issues (which is why you sometimes hear about people saying an image looks "soft"), etc.. At no point will your tv try to convert any SDR format signal to HDR.

Sony's method for upscaling is considered among, if not the best currently because it seems to do it without causing a lot of artifacts or other noticeable degradations of the image (of course this also depends on the source and content being upscaled).

Not true according to every professorial reviewer out there. The TV up-converts or upgrades. Here is an excerpt from Forbes:

Even more cleverly, the way the SDR to HDR conversion processing (present with all but the True Cinema picture preset) gently opens up an SDR picture’s brightness and color range is almost always a joy to behold.

There’s hardly ever so much as a hint of the unbalanced colors, forced-looking peak whites and waxy skin tones associated with other SDR-to-HDR converters.

So effective is the 65X900F at converting ‘legacy’ sources to the 4K HDR capabilities of its screen, in fact, that you can merrily switch between all sorts of different source formats without ever feeling like you’re not getting some sort of 4K HDR experience.

And one from techradar:

The same is true for the X900F’s system for converting standard dynamic range (SDR) images to HDR. Similar ‘upgrading’ is now offered by most other TV brands, but there’s a naturalism and subtlety to Sony’s HDR upgrade (which introduces both enriched colors and an expanded brightness range) that makes the resulting images uniquely consistent and convincing.

Sony is so confident about its HDR upgrade system, in fact, that it’s applied by default to the majority of the TV’s picture presets. That said, if you DO turn the HDR upscaling off (by selecting the True Cinema mode), SDR pictures still look beautiful. Colors remain exceptionally rich but also subtle; light still looks beautifully handled; and dark scenes continue to be rich in black level and shadow detail.

In fact, dark scenes in some ways look better than they do in Sony’s HDR upgrade mode, since there’s no hint of the slight ‘blooming’ of light around stand-out bright objects that occasionally materialises with the HDR ‘upgrading’ processing active.

For us, the benefits of the HDR upscaling mean it’s pretty much always worth sticking with. But rest assured that if you want to watch SDR images as they were originally designed to be seen, the 65X900F/65XF9005 does a terrific job of that too.

And from the Sony website:

With Object-based HDR remaster, the color in individual objects on screen is analyzed and the contrast adjusted, unlike most TVs where contrast is only adjusted along one black-to-white contrast curve. Because objects are remastered individually, this TV can reproduce greater depth, textures, and more realistic pictures.

Last edited by Coercion Shaman; 11-15-2018 at 10:43 AM. Reason: Added Sony Site Reference
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