2018 Sony XBR 900F owners thread (No Price Talk) - Page 209 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6241 of 10032 Old 01-13-2019, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooshoodragon View Post
Im picking up the X700 this afternoon...found a great deal on it locally; thank you for that!

btw...you mentioned that my onk nr838 does not support HDR/DV...but im a bit confused...I looked at the specs of the receiver's HDMI passthrough and it does have HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 Compatibility, 4k/60 is this not enough?

https://www.onkyousa.com/Products/mo...class=Receiver

if its not enough, im assuming the work around would be to run 1 HDMI to receiver for audio and 1 HDMI to 900F for video, from the x700 HDMI outs. is this correct?

thanks in advance..
A.
I don't believe the NR838 passes HDR as it isn't listed as having the capability. Give it a try though. If it doesn't work, then the workaround is as you described.
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post #6242 of 10032 Old 01-13-2019, 06:49 PM
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Black Uniformity

Weirdly enough I noticed that most of the uniformity issues disappeared after having the TV on, in the first couple of days. I am not sure if the UPS shipment or the cold weather had anything to do with this issue. Anyway, I can’t notice any uniformity issues when viewing normal content.

As suggested I have reproduced the settings from the rtings test to test the black uniformity again.

The first image - backlight set to 1 so that white emits 100 cd/m2 of light and local dimming turned off
The second image - backlight set to 20 and local dimming turned off
The third image - backlight set to 20 and local dimming turned on (medium) that effectively get rid of black uniformity issues
The 4th image - backlight set to 20 and local dimming turned off. Different black image as a background
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post #6243 of 10032 Old 01-13-2019, 06:53 PM
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Another thing that I have noticed is the long scratch on the aluminum panel at the back side of the TV. There was no apparent damage on the bag that was over the TV, so I presume this happened during the assembly. I suppose this comes from the poor internal quality control at the Sony manufacturing facility.
I was thinking to ask for a replacement, but I’m not sure because the scratch is not visible from the front and who knows in what condition will be the replacement unit.
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post #6244 of 10032 Old 01-13-2019, 07:29 PM
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Hoping for some input. Let me start by saying I have only had the TV a little over a month and it is overall FANTASTIC!
I tried searching through this thread (using the search tool) but couldn't find an answer to this....quite possible I missed it.
My issue is with a peculiarity using the Xbox One X and it's Netflix App. This isn't about the HDR being washed out (even though there is a noticeable difference between HDR streams using the X1 Netflix app vs the INTERNAL Sony Netflix App - Sony's being much more vibrant/not washed out).

Anyways, my real issue is with the Motion control while using the Netflix App on the X1X. Cinemotion is preset to "High". Although I can select it and choose the "off" option, it won't actually turn off, it still will register as "High" on the motion screen. It's driving me nuts because there are very very few instances where I actually like the Soap Opera Effect....watching movies is definitely NOT one of them.

Anybody else notice this, is this a known but not often discussed bug with the X1X Netflix app or do I have a larger problem?

This does not happen when I use the Sony Tv netflix app, only when using the X1 Netflix App. Honestly other than some blooming bleed into the letterbox bars, this tv has been great.

So yeah, any input would be appreciated.
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post #6245 of 10032 Old 01-14-2019, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hky4life View Post
Hoping for some input. Let me start by saying I have only had the TV a little over a month and it is overall FANTASTIC!
I tried searching through this thread (using the search tool) but couldn't find an answer to this....quite possible I missed it.
My issue is with a peculiarity using the Xbox One X and it's Netflix App. This isn't about the HDR being washed out (even though there is a noticeable difference between HDR streams using the X1 Netflix app vs the INTERNAL Sony Netflix App - Sony's being much more vibrant/not washed out).

Anyways, my real issue is with the Motion control while using the Netflix App on the X1X. Cinemotion is preset to "High". Although I can select it and choose the "off" option, it won't actually turn off, it still will register as "High" on the motion screen. It's driving me nuts because there are very very few instances where I actually like the Soap Opera Effect....watching movies is definitely NOT one of them.

Anybody else notice this, is this a known but not often discussed bug with the X1X Netflix app or do I have a larger problem?

This does not happen when I use the Sony Tv netflix app, only when using the X1 Netflix App. Honestly other than some blooming bleed into the letterbox bars, this tv has been great.

So yeah, any input would be appreciated.
That’s odd that it doesn’t turn off. You shouldn’t get any SOE with it on high anyway unless you have smoothing on. If it’s not on TrueCinema then change motionflow to TrueCinema and see what happens. TrueCinema combined with CineMotion shouldn’t introduce any SOE.
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post #6246 of 10032 Old 01-14-2019, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidanS View Post
Another thing that I have noticed is the long scratch on the aluminum panel at the back side of the TV. There was no apparent damage on the bag that was over the TV, so I presume this happened during the assembly. I suppose this comes from the poor internal quality control at the Sony manufacturing facility.
I was thinking to ask for a replacement, but I’m not sure because the scratch is not visible from the front and who knows in what condition will be the replacement unit.
If you’re overall satisfied with your panel and can ignore the scratch I’d definitely keep it and not try to get a replacement. There’s always a chance you’ll get a worse panel or something so bad you can’t live with.

The risk of going through panel exchange hell is up to you though.
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post #6247 of 10032 Old 01-14-2019, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hky4life View Post
Hoping for some input. Let me start by saying I have only had the TV a little over a month and it is overall FANTASTIC!

I tried searching through this thread (using the search tool) but couldn't find an answer to this....quite possible I missed it.

My issue is with a peculiarity using the Xbox One X and it's Netflix App. This isn't about the HDR being washed out (even though there is a noticeable difference between HDR streams using the X1 Netflix app vs the INTERNAL Sony Netflix App - Sony's being much more vibrant/not washed out).



Anyways, my real issue is with the Motion control while using the Netflix App on the X1X. Cinemotion is preset to "High". Although I can select it and choose the "off" option, it won't actually turn off, it still will register as "High" on the motion screen. It's driving me nuts because there are very very few instances where I actually like the Soap Opera Effect....watching movies is definitely NOT one of them.



Anybody else notice this, is this a known but not often discussed bug with the X1X Netflix app or do I have a larger problem?



This does not happen when I use the Sony Tv netflix app, only when using the X1 Netflix App. Honestly other than some blooming bleed into the letterbox bars, this tv has been great.



So yeah, any input would be appreciated.


The Xbox Netflix app is pretty poor, it goes into Dolby Vision mode as soon as you start the app, even if the show you watch is not in DV.
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post #6248 of 10032 Old 01-14-2019, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by AvidanS View Post
Weirdly enough I noticed that most of the uniformity issues disappeared after having the TV on, in the first couple of days. I am not sure if the UPS shipment or the cold weather had anything to do with this issue. Anyway, I can’t notice any uniformity issues when viewing normal content.

As suggested I have reproduced the settings from the rtings test to test the black uniformity again.

The first image - backlight set to 1 so that white emits 100 cd/m2 of light and local dimming turned off
The second image - backlight set to 20 and local dimming turned off
The third image - backlight set to 20 and local dimming turned on (medium) that effectively get rid of black uniformity issues
The 4th image - backlight set to 20 and local dimming turned off. Different black image as a background

You have similar uniformity with mine.But truth is the problems are only visible on my phone camera.So it doesnt bother me.Also uniformity issues can get better with slight panel massage (or worse if you overdo it)


Thought it was better at 1st but i had mine on 50 instead of 20.

Last edited by Thanasis Xrisatzas; 01-14-2019 at 09:17 AM.
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post #6249 of 10032 Old 01-14-2019, 07:23 AM
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Question Problem getting Pioneer VSX 1131 and Sony x900F working at 4:4:4 Chroma

I'm having problems getting 4:4:4 chroma through this receiver. Testing with an Apple TV 4k and Sony X900F. Tested the cables individually by connecting the apple tv directly to the TV and both cables connected at 4:4:4. I use the Streambox input which is marked as HDCP, and the TV is connected to the Main output on the receiver. The cable is connected to the HDMI3/ARC port which is one of the two that is supposed to take 4:4:4. I have also upgraded the firmware on the receiver with the latest on the Pioneer website.

Using high bandwidth 18Gbps Amazon Basic cables. One is 10' and the other 6'. But as i previously mentioned, if I connect the Apple TV directly to the TV, Dolby Vision and 4:4:4 works. What else can I try?
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post #6250 of 10032 Old 01-14-2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by acphydro View Post
That’s odd that it doesn’t turn off. You shouldn’t get any SOE with it on high anyway unless you have smoothing on. If it’s not on TrueCinema then change motionflow to TrueCinema and see what happens. TrueCinema combined with CineMotion shouldn’t introduce any SOE.
That's the other thing I should have mentioned with this forced DV in the X1X Netflix App. Motionflow only shows 2 options. "OFF" and "Custom" and "Custom" has the smoothness control greyed out and locked at 3 with only the clarity slider being adjustable. While turning motionflow "off" does help a bit there is still a small level of perceptible "live tv" appearance to me.
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post #6251 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post
Wow, this is definitely not the z9d pAnel.

Just tried 4k and 120 hz and it works....What did they do with this panel


PS:Forced resolutions that aren't officially supported from the TV will not show on info,it still reports a 1080p signal.But it will show in every other program or game,like AIDA64.
I have found only one strange behavior so far,when i try to make a screenshot with lightshot.It shrinks the screen to 1/4 of the TV.Aside of that everything else is working fine so far.
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post #6252 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 07:08 AM
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Mediocre Upscaling

One of the biggest things I hear about Sony TVs is how great the upscaling is. When I first turned on my X900F, I was a little bit disappointed though. I wasn't seeing this great upscaling that people talk about. I looked back at these pictures of blurry boats on Rtings and noticed something... The upscaling on Sony TVs was actually a lot better in the past!


Look at this picture of 720p content on the x850d from 2016: x850d


Compare it side by side with the x900f for 720p content: x900f


This seems strange to me. Even the 1080p upscaling looks better on the x850d...

Sony X900F
Xbox One X
PS4 Pro
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post #6253 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 07:35 AM
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One of the biggest things I hear about Sony TVs is how great the upscaling is. When I first turned on my X900F, I was a little bit disappointed though. I wasn't seeing this great upscaling that people talk about. I looked back at these pictures of blurry boats on Rtings and noticed something... The upscaling on Sony TVs was actually a lot better in the past!


Look at this picture of 720p content on the x850d from 2016: x850d


Compare it side by side with the x900f for 720p content: x900f


This seems strange to me. Even the 1080p upscaling looks better on the x850d...



X900f pic seem blurry its like they took a photo and moved the camera.And it might as well be the case too...Its unlikely to make the up scaling worse doesnt make sense.Also 4k that does 0 upscaling has the exact same symptoms.

Last edited by Thanasis Xrisatzas; 01-15-2019 at 07:42 AM.
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post #6254 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Thanasis Xrisatzas View Post
X900f pic seem blurry its like they took a photo and moved the camera.And it might as well be the case too...Its unlikely to make the up scaling worse doesnt make sense.Also 4k that does 0 upscaling has the exact same symptoms.

Apparently it's been this way since the 900E, because the 900E 720p image looks about identical to the 900F. I don't think they have moved the camera for these models. I think they actually upscale worse. Something about the difference in upscaling chips?

Sony X900F
Xbox One X
PS4 Pro
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post #6255 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 07:56 AM
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Apparently it's been this way since the 900E, because the 900E 720p image looks about identical to the 900F. I don't think they have moved the camera for these models. I think they actually upscale worse. Something about the difference in upscaling chips?

If so explain to me why the 4k is blurry too.Its as blurry as the 720p...Also im gaming with the TV at 1080p and it hard to nearly impossible to tell it apart from the native 1080p Tv i used to have.


PS:Just for the shake of it,i fired up witcher 3 at 720p,for the 1st time.And it looks crazy good...I could see myself even playing at that resolution,thats how good the upscaling is....It wasnt even close on my D8000 samsung tv i used to have.720 there was blurry af....

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post #6256 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 08:14 AM
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If so explain to me why the 4k is blurry too.Its as blurry as the 720p...Also im gaming with the TV at 1080p and it hard to nearly impossible to tell it apart from the native 1080p Tv i used to have.

I don't know. I'm no expert and certainly can't explain it. I'm just noticing these differences. I became curious when I noticed that my step-dad's x690e appeared to upscale Directv slightly better than my X900F. Now looking at the rtings pictures, I can see a decline in upscaling of lower res. content over the past couple of years.

Sony X900F
Xbox One X
PS4 Pro
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post #6257 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 08:28 AM
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I don't know. I'm no expert and certainly can't explain it. I'm just noticing these differences. I became curious when I noticed that my step-dad's x690e appeared to upscale Directv slightly better than my X900F. Now looking at the rtings pictures, I can see a decline in upscaling of lower res. content over the past couple of years.

Well you can tell that something is wrong with their pics,when you are looking a native 4k pic and its blurry...Also to see if your step dad tv does upscaling better,you must have the same setting in both Tvs...And even that its not a given,cause different Tvs have different setting values.But at least its a start.I never had a sony Tv before,but 720p upscaling was phenomenal when i fired up witcher 3.That wasn't the case with my older native 1080p Samsung TV,and D8000 was one of their best models if not the best for 1080p.


Ps:Not sure what is wrong with this,but i did tried again at 720p and this time it was the same as my old tv was...weird behavior.

Last edited by Thanasis Xrisatzas; 01-15-2019 at 11:38 AM.
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post #6258 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mhyatt5871 View Post
One of the biggest things I hear about Sony TVs is how great the upscaling is. When I first turned on my X900F, I was a little bit disappointed though. I wasn't seeing this great upscaling that people talk about. I looked back at these pictures of blurry boats on Rtings and noticed something... The upscaling on Sony TVs was actually a lot better in the past!


Look at this picture of 720p content on the x850d from 2016: x850d


Compare it side by side with the x900f for 720p content: x900f


This seems strange to me. Even the 1080p upscaling looks better on the x850d...
This has been my experience as well. OTA 720P (local Fox station) looks just as crappy as it did on my Vizio PQuantum. One of the reasons I decided to upgrade was because of Vizio's poor upscaling reputation and Sony's great reputation. No regrets as I also wanted a 75 inch panel and I got a great deal on the 900F, but the upscaling has been a disappointment.
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post #6259 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 09:34 AM
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Hey guys, I am looking for a measurement on the 75" display. Can someone who has this size measure how far the legs stick out, from the BACK of the display? The product manual shows the overall depth with the stand is 14", but I need to know the distance from the back of the display to the front of the legs.

I am not worried about the width, I have plenty of space there, but am somewhat limited in depth. If someone is able to measure the for me I'd greatly appreciate it.
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post #6260 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 09:39 AM
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This has been my experience as well. OTA 720P (local Fox station) looks just as crappy as it did on my Vizio PQuantum. One of the reasons I decided to upgrade was because of Vizio's poor upscaling reputation and Sony's great reputation. No regrets as I also wanted a 75 inch panel and I got a great deal on the 900F, but the upscaling has been a disappointment.

Glad I'm not the only one who notices this. I too had a Vizio for a while (2018 P Series) and was disappointed with the upscaling of it. I have been able to tweak the settings of my X900F to make it look a little better than the Vizio, but still, it really makes me wonder what Sony did with their upscaling to make it worse.

Sony X900F
Xbox One X
PS4 Pro
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post #6261 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 09:43 AM
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When reading people's comments about this TV on reddit and such, I came across many posts stating that this TV had dim HDR and Dolby Vision for both gaming and movies. After sampling some HDR movies and games, I am happy to report that I have no idea what those people are talking about. This TV looks great in HDR. There are probably some TVs that can display it brighter, but I think it's plenty bright on this TV, even with the lights on.

As for blooming, yes I notice it in HDR, but nothing terrible. However, if viewed at an angle in HDR, it's blooming more than flowers in the spring! The good thing is, I don't watch movies at an angle, as I sit directly in front of the screen. This would definitely be an issue though for people with wide seating arrangements. Again, only while watching HDR. For SDR content, the TV shouldn't be so bright as to display such blooming, unless you are one of those who watch SDR at max brightness.

Overall, I'm really liking this TV so far. The highlights are displayed really well in HDR, motion seems really good as well.
From my testing, DV support is very poor as compared to say an LG Oled. HDR 10 is great though. DV is not being mapped correctly at least through the Netflix app. Having the displays side by side, DV seems to be unusable and broken in comparison on this one.
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post #6262 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 10:05 AM
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I am surprised that no one here considers unacceptable that the TV has a BFI that does not flickers at 60 hz but only at 120 hz. Because it is unusable with videogames at 60 hz. it creates obvious duplications in the moving image.
Current BFI implementations on these displays are nearly useless and if anything more distracting than not in regular use cases. I would advocate Motionflow settings over BFI to smooth/process the motion out a bit to your liking with minimal artifacting.
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post #6263 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 11:47 AM
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Hey guys, I am looking for a measurement on the 75" display. Can someone who has this size measure how far the legs stick out, from the BACK of the display? The product manual shows the overall depth with the stand is 14", but I need to know the distance from the back of the display to the front of the legs.
[...]
Official cut sheet:
http://www.sonypremiumhome.com/pdfs/...t_20171110.pdf
Looks like it's around 9 1/8" (there's a slight lean).
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post #6264 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 11:59 AM
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From my testing, DV support is very poor as compared to say an LG Oled. HDR 10 is great though. DV is not being mapped correctly at least through the Netflix app. Having the displays side by side, DV seems to be unusable and broken in comparison on this one.
Are you referring to the internal App or a streamer? On my AppleTV4K Netflix Dolby Vision looks fine. About the same as my Vizio P65-C1 also with an Apple streamer. To my eye DV is much more dynamic than HDR10.
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post #6265 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 12:29 PM
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Official cut sheet:
http://www.sonypremiumhome.com/pdfs/...t_20171110.pdf
Looks like it's around 9 1/8" (there's a slight lean).
Perfect, this is exactly what I needed. Thanks for the help!
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post #6266 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 01:07 PM
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Should I return this TV? I have till Saturday 12th.


Thanks - I tried the following:

With brightness set to 1 and Auto Local Dim to off and tested black uniformity and I did not see the weird artifacts on the screen. I then turned my tv brightness to 35 with Local Dimming to On (Medium) I then ran DSE RGB Monitor Test and I took the following pictures of the result.

I don't see the same artifacts that were presented on the settings menu. If you look at the one attached pic (Image#142) I retook a pic of just the plain screen where the settings menu is in HOME and you can see those artifacts from viewing angle. No flash was used. Shows like weird artifact gradient waves or lines.

If anyone that's familiar with what this RGB test should show - Do you think I have a bad panel based on these attached pics?
Should I return this unit as I have till Saturday.

Appreciate the help!
I have the exact same issue with strange artifacts in the home menu when scrolling down to settings. (See attached pictures). Sony will replace the TV on Thursday, but not really sure this is actually an issue or just some software bug.
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Last edited by sampleheadz; 01-15-2019 at 01:10 PM.
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post #6267 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 01:45 PM
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I've heard talk about the 4K image database that the X1 Extreme uses to upscale images. Does anyone know if this database is built into the processor itself or if it's online like Gracenote? I'm only curious because I don't normally keep my X900F connected to the internet, only for app updates and the occasional Youtube video. Am I missing out by keeping the TV offline?

Sony XBR-65X900F, Sony BDV-E3100, PS3, PS4 (Living Room)
Sony KDL-40V3000, Sony KDL-32R300B (Bedrooms)
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post #6268 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Opala View Post
From my testing, DV support is very poor as compared to say an LG Oled. HDR 10 is great though. DV is not being mapped correctly at least through the Netflix app. Having the displays side by side, DV seems to be unusable and broken in comparison on this one.
I tested Netflix DV using my Nvidia Shield this week and DV still looks dull and dim. DV is still broken on the internal Neflix app and Vudo app. It looks like dynamic range is missing. HDR10 works great on Windows 10. I really frustrated that these apps are still broken on this TV.
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post #6269 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by audiogeek78 View Post
I tested Netflix DV using my Nvidia Shield this week and DV still looks dull and dim. DV is still broken on the internal Neflix app and Vudo app. It looks like dynamic range is missing. HDR10 works great on Windows 10. I really frustrated that these apps are still broken on this TV.
Nvidia Shield doesn't support Dolby Vision.
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post #6270 of 10032 Old 01-15-2019, 05:46 PM
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The Quad XL finally arrived and, better still, my kids gave me enough seconds of relative calm this evening to get it on the site. In case you can't find it, I made it a "size" option for the regular Quad. It's on the same page as the Quad. That way, I think it's harder to miss the option. Otherwise, I think we'll get a lot of exchanges when people don't see it and order the regular Quad.

Do you need it? Here's the correlation:


Do you really need the Quad XL instead of the regular Quad? Do we really need any of this stuff?


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Nice!!! I guess I'll be getting my Quad 6500K soon as well! Have fun!


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Scenic Labs, LLC
Publisher of Spears & Munsil Benchmark UHD HDR Benchmark.
Maker of The ISF-certified MediaLight 6500K Bias Lighting System

Last edited by Scenic Labs; 01-15-2019 at 05:54 PM.
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