2018 Sony XBR 900F owners thread (No Price Talk) - Page 274 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8191 of 9106 Old 04-16-2019, 01:05 PM
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post #8192 of 9106 Old 04-16-2019, 06:37 PM
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I have a question regarding Dolby Vision on this set. Is it still bad when watching Netflix? I understand DV can’t be disabled. Now I also understand the 950G has a DV dim and bright option. This seems purely like software...couldn’t Sony update the software on the 900F to give these options as well? I’m about to pull the trigger on this set, but the things I’ve read on various Reddit posts about how bad DV is on this set is giving me a little pause.
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post #8193 of 9106 Old 04-16-2019, 08:25 PM
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I have a question regarding Dolby Vision on this set. Is it still bad when watching Netflix? I understand DV can’t be disabled. Now I also understand the 950G has a DV dim and bright option. This seems purely like software...couldn’t Sony update the software on the 900F to give these options as well? I’m about to pull the trigger on this set, but the things I’ve read on various Reddit posts about how bad DV is on this set is giving me a little pause.
I have a couple of TVs a 2016 Vizio P, one of the first DV sets that continues to get firmware updates and a 900F. The 2016 Vizio can't get as bright as the 900F but Dolby Vision (DV) looks a little dim on both sets. I believe it is a characteristic of HDR (both HDR10 and DV). I've used internal Apps, and an AppleTV 4K on both sets as well as Rokus for HDR10. Personally it isn't a big deal to me.

IMHO if you are really concerned about "dim" Dolby Vision wait for the 950G as a better video chip and more local dimming zones might offer some improvement.
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post #8194 of 9106 Old 04-16-2019, 08:25 PM
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I have a question regarding Dolby Vision on this set. Is it still bad when watching Netflix? I understand DV can’t be disabled. Now I also understand the 950G has a DV dim and bright option. This seems purely like software...couldn’t Sony update the software on the 900F to give these options as well? I’m about to pull the trigger on this set, but the things I’ve read on various Reddit posts about how bad DV is on this set is giving me a little pause.
on rtings website it says dv is designed to show details in dark room, mimicking movie theater, but the main reason buying LED is brightness, if LG OLED has HDR bright and night option why can't this set have same option, in dim setting hdr is ok but it is not ok in bright room condition.
this can be updated in software by giving option to people.

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post #8195 of 9106 Old 04-16-2019, 08:58 PM
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I have a question regarding Dolby Vision on this set. Is it still bad when watching Netflix? I understand DV can’t be disabled. Now I also understand the 950G has a DV dim and bright option. This seems purely like software...couldn’t Sony update the software on the 900F to give these options as well? I’m about to pull the trigger on this set, but the things I’ve read on various Reddit posts about how bad DV is on this set is giving me a little pause.
***You usually have the option to watch in 1080p versus Dolby Vision or even 4K/HDR. And the way the Sony 900F upscales - you’ll love the picture. I do this all the time with Amazon Prime. If Amazon Prime or Netflix has an DV ride along DD+ Atmos track - then I’ll watch DV for the audio. Otherwise, I could care less about DV.

IMHO - Dolby Vision is the most overhyped and under delivered TV/Video “enhancement” in my lifetime. Right behind that is HDR. But you know what? It really doesn’t matter! I’m perfectly happy with 1080p streaming from Amazon Prime, Netflix and even the occasional Google Play movie. Outstanding picture with vivid colors and exceptional shadow detail. I’m in heaven watching an OTA, less compressed 1080i signal like the Masters this past weekend or Stanley Cup Hockey.

I don’t care what TV you buy — you’ll still be looking for the Dolby Vision “Holy Grail.” Again, my personal opinion is that Dolby Vision will look like crap on every DV capable TV known to man. If you only focus on DV without considering upscaling and processing capability for the bulk of today’s cable, satellite & streaming content - you’ll be missing out on a great set - the Sony 900F.
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post #8196 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 01:07 AM
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***You usually have the option to watch in 1080p versus Dolby Vision or even 4K/HDR. And the way the Sony 900F upscales - you’ll love the picture. I do this all the time with Amazon Prime. If Amazon Prime or Netflix has an DV ride along DD+ Atmos track - then I’ll watch DV for the audio. Otherwise, I could care less about DV.



IMHO - Dolby Vision is the most overhyped and under delivered TV/Video “enhancement” in my lifetime. Right behind that is HDR. But you know what? It really doesn’t matter! I’m perfectly happy with 1080p streaming from Amazon Prime, Netflix and even the occasional Google Play movie. Outstanding picture with vivid colors and exceptional shadow detail. I’m in heaven watching an OTA, less compressed 1080i signal like the Masters this past weekend or Stanley Cup Hockey.



I don’t care what TV you buy — you’ll still be looking for the Dolby Vision “Holy Grail.” Again, my personal opinion is that Dolby Vision will look like crap on every DV capable TV known to man. If you only focus on DV without considering upscaling and processing capability for the bulk of today’s cable, satellite & streaming content - you’ll be missing out on a great set - the Sony 900F.
In my opinion HDR is the greatest, most exciting picture enhancement since color or HDTV. I am constantly blown away by HDR. I don't have Dolby Vision because I have the 900E but HDR when done right is absolutely incredible, stunning. Amazon does some of the most incredible HDR, they do it right. Netflix is hit and miss but they are doing much better than they used to for implementing HDR.

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post #8197 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 04:41 AM
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In my opinion HDR is the greatest, most exciting picture enhancement since color or HDTV. I am constantly blown away by HDR. I don't have Dolby Vision because I have the 900E but HDR when done right is absolutely incredible, stunning. Amazon does some of the most incredible HDR, they do it right. Netflix is hit and miss but they are doing much better than they used to for implementing HDR.

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***And that's great. If you enjoy it that much, then that's what counts. To me - - the juice isn't worth the squeeze. But again - - my main point is that a potential buyer will be missing the benefits of a great TV (Sony 900F) IF the focus is solely on Dolby Vision or HDR as the key, determining "buying" factor.

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post #8198 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 05:26 AM
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I just want whatever I watch on Netflix to look good. I currently have a lower end Sony 40” W650D as my main tv. So any 4K mid to high tier television is going to be a major upgrade for us. I think Netflix looks fine on my current tv. I’m not a videophile. What I’m not wanting is to spend $2,800 on a tv that makes what I’m currently used to look worse. That’s the only reason I’m asking. I don’t make big purchases like this often, but when I do I research the hell out of things to try and make sure I’m not going to have any buyers remorse.

I did stare at this tv, along with the Q8FN at BB yesterday for quite a long time. They are both gorgeous looking sets. I’d be happy with either one. But for the price difference I can’t see the justification in going with Samsung. The salesman seemed to be initially pushing the Samsung more, but I think he assumed I gamed a lot for whatever reason. I don’t. When I told him I’d mostly be watching cable and movies, he seemed to steer me towards the Sony a little more. And of course he was touting the OLED a lot.

Does anyone have any official knowledge if Sony is working on updates that are going to address people’s concerns over DV, or is it just an unknown at this point?

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In my opinion HDR is the greatest, most exciting picture enhancement since color or HDTV. I am constantly blown away by HDR. I don't have Dolby Vision because I have the 900E but HDR when done right is absolutely incredible, stunning. Amazon does some of the most incredible HDR, they do it right. Netflix is hit and miss but they are doing much better than they used to for implementing HDR.

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***And that's great. If you enjoy it that much, then that's what counts. To me - - the juice isn't worth the squeeze. But again - - my main point is that a potential buyer will be missing the benefits of a great TV (Sony 900F) IF the focus is solely on Dolby Vision or HDR as the key, determining "buying" factor.
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post #8199 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 05:33 AM
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Does anyone have any official knowledge if Sony is working on updates that are going to address people’s concerns over DV, or is it just an unknown at this point?

The 950G has three Dolby modes to include a dark and bright. Assuming it is software implemented as well, it could be done on the 900F I would think. I haven't read anything about it being done, though, and it is possible that the new processor has the power to do so over the 900F processor.

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post #8200 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 06:30 AM
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The 950G has three Dolby modes to include a dark and bright. Assuming it is software implemented as well, it could be done on the 900F I would think. I haven't read anything about it being done, though, and it is possible that the new processor has the power to do so over the 900F processor.
Sony has gotton a lot of negitive feedback about how it implemented Dolby Vision on their TV's. The preset DV modes could be added to the X900F since all they are is preset modes. No different than if you were to write down the settings off one of those 950G's and added them to your custom profile.

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post #8201 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 07:15 AM
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***You usually have the option to watch in 1080p versus Dolby Vision or even 4K/HDR. And the way the Sony 900F upscales - you’ll love the picture. I do this all the time with Amazon Prime. If Amazon Prime or Netflix has an DV ride along DD+ Atmos track - then I’ll watch DV for the audio. Otherwise, I could care less about DV.

IMHO - Dolby Vision is the most overhyped and under delivered TV/Video “enhancement” in my lifetime. Right behind that is HDR. But you know what? It really doesn’t matter! I’m perfectly happy with 1080p streaming from Amazon Prime, Netflix and even the occasional Google Play movie. Outstanding picture with vivid colors and exceptional shadow detail. I’m in heaven watching an OTA, less compressed 1080i signal like the Masters this past weekend or Stanley Cup Hockey.

I don’t care what TV you buy — you’ll still be looking for the Dolby Vision “Holy Grail.” Again, my personal opinion is that Dolby Vision will look like crap on every DV capable TV known to man. If you only focus on DV without considering upscaling and processing capability for the bulk of today’s cable, satellite & streaming content - you’ll be missing out on a great set - the Sony 900F.
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In my opinion HDR is the greatest, most exciting picture enhancement since color or HDTV. I am constantly blown away by HDR. I don't have Dolby Vision because I have the 900E but HDR when done right is absolutely incredible, stunning. Amazon does some of the most incredible HDR, they do it right. Netflix is hit and miss but they are doing much better than they used to for implementing HDR.

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In other words, it's truly a matter of taste. I for one am with Ricoflashback on this one.I have watched Aquaman on HDR and although in some scenes the image looks better, in others it didn't. In fact what I like about HDR is the color but what I hated were bright scenes where I had to shut my eyes because it was too bright, like the scene where young Arthur is leaping in the ocean. The scene starts in a moderate light but as he leaps, the angle shifts showing the sky and then it gets too bright. I know some people like it but I don't want to get blinded every time there's scene with the sun in it. Another thing I agree with is the upscaling quality of this TV. WOW! I don't know if this is also true on larger screens but on the 55", when comparing some 1080p Blu-ray titles with their 4K counterparts I found the difference almost negligible. If you give the 4K a 10, I'd say the 1080p Blu-ray would be a 9.8 or even 9.9, assuming of course both were sourced from the same negative or master. I know a lot of people will disagree but I firmly believe that both HDR and DV are just gimmicks devised to make us believe we need to buy new TVs.

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post #8202 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 07:47 AM
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I just want whatever I watch on Netflix to look good. I currently have a lower end Sony 40” W650D as my main tv. So any 4K mid to high tier television is going to be a major upgrade for us. I think Netflix looks fine on my current tv. I’m not a videophile. What I’m not wanting is to spend $2,800 on a tv that makes what I’m currently used to look worse. That’s the only reason I’m asking. I don’t make big purchases like this often, but when I do I research the hell out of things to try and make sure I’m not going to have any buyers remorse.

I did stare at this tv, along with the Q8FN at BB yesterday for quite a long time. They are both gorgeous looking sets. I’d be happy with either one. But for the price difference I can’t see the justification in going with Samsung. The salesman seemed to be initially pushing the Samsung more, but I think he assumed I gamed a lot for whatever reason. I don’t. When I told him I’d mostly be watching cable and movies, he seemed to steer me towards the Sony a little more. And of course he was touting the OLED a lot.

Does anyone have any official knowledge if Sony is working on updates that are going to address people’s concerns over DV, or is it just an unknown at this point?
***I can understand your questions on Dolby Vision. Price, of course, is always a top consideration in buying any product. But again - I believe you are putting too much emphasis on DV. Content wise, how much DV do you think you will watch? And for the record - - I find the DV on Netflix to be better than Amazon Prime's Dolby Vision offerings. But alas - - I think Sony hasn't done a great job with their DV implementation and DV, in general, as a technology, still has a long way to go. Many TV owners that do not have a Sony TV complain about the "darkness" of Dolby Vision, so the problem is not just Sony's implementation.

Think about the source(s) of your content and determine what percentage in each category - 1. Cable/Satellite, 2. Streaming (Internal Apps are the best picture quality to me but a lot of folks like their 3rd Party Streamers like Apple 4K, Roku & Nvidia Shield), 3. Blu-ray and 4. Gaming (if applicable). If the majority of your content is (1) Cable/Satellite, then the TV's upscaling engine is really important with 1080i and 720p sources. (P.S. - "OTA" or Over The Air Antenna TV with a less compressed signal - 1080i/720p) is a real joy to watch and looks like Blu-ray quality to me.)

No matter what you choose - - enjoy the process and make sure you have a solid return policy (no questions asked!) to protect your investment. What's great about the Sony 900F (or any other TV for that matter) is that once you settle on your settings - - you get to focus on the content you're watching and enjoying your viewing experience!

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post #8203 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 07:50 AM
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Sony has gotton a lot of negitive feedback about how it implemented Dolby Vision on their TV's. The preset DV modes could be added to the X900F since all they are is preset modes. No different than if you were to write down the settings off one of those 950G's and added them to your custom profile.
Does anyone have both a 900F and a 950G for comparison? I'm curious how much brighter this Dolby Vision Bright setting is, and if it's much different from just raising the Gamma on the 900F while in DV mode (The clipping of blacks over HDMI is a separate issue). After spending several months with this set and watching various types of content (which is a huge deal, as many film colorists and editors currently differ widely in how they are implementing HDR), I've come to really appreciate how it is used on the 900F. While I understand that there are definitely brighter TVs out there that may allow for a greater punch with the HDR effect, I think the 900F is actually very robust in its capabilities. To appreciate it, you've got to get over the initial impulse to play your SDR content at eye searingly bright levels (which is hard not to do, because it just seems SO much bolder than what we've been used to before). It wasn't until I embraced a slightly dimmer SDR experience that the picture really locked in for me.

Two stories related to this:
I initially had the Picture set to Brightness: 25, then eventually settled at 20. For many months. Then, after seeing several configurations posted that dialed that WAY down, I finally ended up with a compromise of 13. I watch TV primarily in a bright room, so this seems appropriate. After getting used to the way this looked on the TV (which doesn't take long, just stop flipping back and forth between settings), I happened to visit my in-laws, who have my old Panasonic Plasma in their house, with my original calibration intact. I was struck by how much brighter the 900F at 13 seemed than what I had been used to for so many years! It's almost literally like night and day.

Then to further drive the point home to me, a couple of months ago, when my wife and I went to see Captain Marvel at our newly renovated local theater, which has great quality projector installed, I was amazed when I noted just how dim THIS screen was (it was a 2D showing, just for reference), even compared to Dolby Vision content at home. This is the experience that Dolby Vision is attempting to replicate in your home, and in my experience it was still far dimmer than what I am getting on my 900F. And note, in a dark movie theater, with a huge screen, in the shortest time your eyes adjust to the picture and the brightest whites seem like a very bright day outside, it's really all relative.

If any of you are familiar with performing or recording classical music, I would compare the way Dolby Vision works to how you should appreciate dynamics. Older audio recordings seem quieter to our ears, but really they just respected dynamics, so when a classical music piece is supposed to be very quiet, you can only barely hear it, but then as it rises to the climax of a piece, it gets so loud that you might reach for the volume knob. Newer recordings have flattened out a lot of this dynamic range so that you can hear all of the parts without adjusting the volume on your earbuds, but if you've ever been to a live orchestra concert, you know that pianissimo can be so quiet that everyone holds their breath, and then fortissimo can be as loud as a rock concert! Basically, DV sets a brightness range for the film you are watching based on the abilities of the TV. So with HDR, the brightest light will display at the brightest nits available in the set, and the darkest blacks at the darkest available for the set. Then it sets everything else on a scale in between that. If it artificially pushed the brightness for mid range bright colors, it would kill the contrast of things, and you would essentially end up seeing clipping. Basically, it would look like SDR content with the brightness jacked up. The whole point of HDR is to see those extra bright peaks that have never before been available in home entertainment, because of the limited range of screen brightness. Now you can have a bright sky, but the sun can poke through it as it does in real life. In a rainy scene the headlights of a car or flashlight can beam through the haze with clarity. And lightning and fire appear hotter and more dangerous than ever!

That's not to say that I think the 900F has the PERFECT implementation of HDR and Dolby Vision. I certainly think that if Sony bothered to tweak a couple of things, it would come close, though.

Here's an experiment to try if you're thus far underwhelmed by HDR and Dolby Vision: Take a movie that you have available in Dolby Vision and find a part of it that is pretty middle brightness, maybe an indoor well lit setting. Try to take a picture of the screen, or just flip back and forth between SDR and HDR if possible (this is easy on an Apple TV, just disable Match Dynamic Range; if that's not an option try a movie that you own in 4K, but can also stream in HD elsewhere, though that will be less exact of a match). Then adjust the brightness in your SDR picture settings until the mid ranges are about the same as on the Dolby Vision copy, likely this will result in a much lower Brightness setting. Try watching SDR content with those settings for a few days, you will probably adjust to it fairly easily. Then watch something in Dolby Vision, and be wowed by the extra bright colors that occasionally occur, bringing the image to life!

Sorry for the ramble-y post; I guess I have opinions on this!
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post #8204 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 08:05 AM
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HDR stands for High Dynamic RANGE meaning you have a larger distance between the highs and lows. Many people are stuck on HDR photographs that use that range just to add "POP" to the photo making the colors very unnatural and not true to life. If you like the "POP" that's fine and your call but realize that "POP" is not necessarily the point of HDR.

DV is an attempt to put more control of how the picture looks into the hands of the content creator. It feels like those content creators strive to give you a movie like experience which is considerably dimmer than most of us are used to using SDR in our homes.

It seems too many people have the impression that the purpose of HDR and DV are to give you a brighter more saturated picture, this is not necessarily the case.
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post #8205 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 09:35 AM
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HDR stands for High Dynamic RANGE meaning you have a larger distance between the highs and lows. Many people are stuck on HDR photographs that use that range just to add "POP" to the photo making the colors very unnatural and not true to life. If you like the "POP" that's fine and your call but realize that "POP" is not necessarily the point of HDR.

DV is an attempt to put more control of how the picture looks into the hands of the content creator. It feels like those content creators strive to give you a movie like experience which is considerably dimmer than most of us are used to using SDR in our homes.

It seems too many people have the impression that the purpose of HDR and DV are to give you a brighter more saturated picture, this is not necessarily the case.
*Well - my expectations for DV and HDR is a better picture than I already get with 1080p/720i or even 4K. As far as how the picture looks like in the hands of the "Content Creator" (very similar to how the movie "Director" intends you to see their film(s)) - - I'm interested in what I like - - not what the "Content Creator" or "Director" wants me to see. I'm just not that much of a purist to automatically assume the "Content Creator" or "Director" have my best interests in mind or have better eyes than I do.

So far, HDR has been sold as a three-alarm chili and it barely reaches one-alarm.

Dolby Vision has been sold as Filet Mignon, a T-Bone Steak or Ribeye - and is more of "Gristle Burger." Tough DV chewing, folks.
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Cornered Audio (FH/RH), Definitive Technology (Front Wides)
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post #8206 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
...Many TV owners that do not have a Sony TV complain about the "darkness" of Dolby Vision, so the problem is not just Sony's implementation.!
Complaints about both forms of HDR are scattered all over the various TV, UHD Player and streamer forums. Some people are not fans of High Dynamic Range as @Cheddarhead and @rafffster noted.

P.S. Listen to a good analog recording of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture with good speakers. Set it so the opening violins are faintly heard and when the cannons fire, it will probably rattle your windows. Dynamic Range
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post #8207 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 11:36 AM
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Does anyone have a list of Alexa commands that actually work? I can say “open Plex On Sony” or “open Netflix” but not close them and go back to watching tv. A list of actual commands that work with this TV would be great.

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post #8208 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post
***And that's great. If you enjoy it that much, then that's what counts. To me - - the juice isn't worth the squeeze. But again - - my main point is that a potential buyer will be missing the benefits of a great TV (Sony 900F) IF the focus is solely on Dolby Vision or HDR as the key, determining "buying" factor.
Differences, and different opinions is what makes the world go around right. That is my motto.
A lot of HDR quality has to do with the implementation. Amazon usually does a stellar job. Netflix is hit or miss. Netflix used to be more miss and by a lot, meaning they did a piss poor job of using HDR. Lately they are killing it. The order looks incredible, highwaymen too looks great. Black summer looks really good too.

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post #8209 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bgaviator View Post
I just want whatever I watch on Netflix to look good. I currently have a lower end Sony 40” W650D as my main tv. So any 4K mid to high tier television is going to be a major upgrade for us. I think Netflix looks fine on my current tv. I’m not a videophile. What I’m not wanting is to spend $2,800 on a tv that makes what I’m currently used to look worse. That’s the only reason I’m asking. I don’t make big purchases like this often, but when I do I research the hell out of things to try and make sure I’m not going to have any buyers remorse.

I did stare at this tv, along with the Q8FN at BB yesterday for quite a long time. They are both gorgeous looking sets. I’d be happy with either one. But for the price difference I can’t see the justification in going with Samsung. The salesman seemed to be initially pushing the Samsung more, but I think he assumed I gamed a lot for whatever reason. I don’t. When I told him I’d mostly be watching cable and movies, he seemed to steer me towards the Sony a little more. And of course he was touting the OLED a lot.

Does anyone have any official knowledge if Sony is working on updates that are going to address people’s concerns over DV, or is it just an unknown at this point?
Look there is always going to be individual’s that don’t like something about a TV. We are programmed by news, current affairs, papers, media, etc to respond to the negative.

There is nothing wrong with the way Sony’s DV implementation works. The issue for some people is can a set get bright enough for HDR to make a difference.

I have 930e and my son has the 900f (mainly because I had 930e). DV when implemented correctly looks good on either TV. Sabrina, Lost in Space, Altered Carbon, Etc. The marvel stuff looks grainy and flat either way. The early Iron Fist night scenes look good.

The inbuilt Netflix app is very good. Prefer it over the other appliances. At the end the day there are lots of really good reasons to buy a TV if all things are equal I would get Set that had DV to one that didn’t. When done right it looks very good.
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post #8210 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 03:45 PM
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My 900F wont turn on in the morning IF ...

... I turn off the TV while running YouTube TV app. It's like the App is in some sort of standby mode. Sometimes I can get it to come on by pressing the power button and waiting 30 seconds or more. The TV will turn on as if it were just plugged in. Takes a minute to fire up the Android OS, etc.

This does NOT happen ever if I am last using another app like the Netflix app or using another source through my AV receiver. If so then in the morning my TV will turn on right away.

Has anyone seen this strange behavior?

Thanks in advance!

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post #8211 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 05:43 PM
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Geek Squad confirmed panel was bad. Sony is exchanging the TV out. Maybe I will lock out and they will have to send me the 950g.
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post #8212 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffo11 View Post
Look there is always going to be individual’s that don’t like something about a TV. We are programmed by news, current affairs, papers, media, etc to respond to the negative.

There is nothing wrong with the way Sony’s DV implementation works. The issue for some people is can a set get bright enough for HDR to make a difference.

I have 930e and my son has the 900f (mainly because I had 930e). DV when implemented correctly looks good on either TV. Sabrina, Lost in Space, Altered Carbon, Etc. The marvel stuff looks grainy and flat either way. The early Iron Fist night scenes look good.

The inbuilt Netflix app is very good. Prefer it over the other appliances. At the end the day there are lots of really good reasons to buy a TV if all things are equal I would get Set that had DV to one that didn’t. When done right it looks very good.
I know what HDR10 does, and I'm pleased. I do not know, other than what people tell me, what DV does. If DV's trying to mimic a dim theater experience, no thanks. That's exactly why I have few theater experiences these days.

Also, everything in a AV chain must have DV in it. Unless all my stuff blows up, it's not going to happen. Very likely, when my and many others stuff does need to be replaced, there'll be something else to consider...like IMAX Enhanced+.

LSS, DV is nothingness.

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post #8213 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 07:23 PM
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my tv is stuck on boot screen 4 round icons, unplugging and connecting it back worked. not sure why it did what it did.
there was no software update or anything.

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post #8214 of 9106 Old 04-17-2019, 11:24 PM
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2018 Sony XBR 900F owners thread (No Price Talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafffster View Post
Does anyone have both a 900F and a 950G for comparison? I'm curious how much brighter this Dolby Vision Bright setting is, and if it's much different from just raising the Gamma on the 900F while in DV mode (The clipping of blacks over HDMI is a separate issue). After spending several months with this set and watching various types of content (which is a huge deal, as many film colorists and editors currently differ widely in how they are implementing HDR), I've come to really appreciate how it is used on the 900F. While I understand that there are definitely brighter TVs out there that may allow for a greater punch with the HDR effect, I think the 900F is actually very robust in its capabilities. To appreciate it, you've got to get over the initial impulse to play your SDR content at eye searingly bright levels (which is hard not to do, because it just seems SO much bolder than what we've been used to before). It wasn't until I embraced a slightly dimmer SDR experience that the picture really locked in for me.



Two stories related to this:

I initially had the Picture set to Brightness: 25, then eventually settled at 20. For many months. Then, after seeing several configurations posted that dialed that WAY down, I finally ended up with a compromise of 13. I watch TV primarily in a bright room, so this seems appropriate. After getting used to the way this looked on the TV (which doesn't take long, just stop flipping back and forth between settings), I happened to visit my in-laws, who have my old Panasonic Plasma in their house, with my original calibration intact. I was struck by how much brighter the 900F at 13 seemed than what I had been used to for so many years! It's almost literally like night and day.



Then to further drive the point home to me, a couple of months ago, when my wife and I went to see Captain Marvel at our newly renovated local theater, which has great quality projector installed, I was amazed when I noted just how dim THIS screen was (it was a 2D showing, just for reference), even compared to Dolby Vision content at home. This is the experience that Dolby Vision is attempting to replicate in your home, and in my experience it was still far dimmer than what I am getting on my 900F. And note, in a dark movie theater, with a huge screen, in the shortest time your eyes adjust to the picture and the brightest whites seem like a very bright day outside, it's really all relative.



If any of you are familiar with performing or recording classical music, I would compare the way Dolby Vision works to how you should appreciate dynamics. Older audio recordings seem quieter to our ears, but really they just respected dynamics, so when a classical music piece is supposed to be very quiet, you can only barely hear it, but then as it rises to the climax of a piece, it gets so loud that you might reach for the volume knob. Newer recordings have flattened out a lot of this dynamic range so that you can hear all of the parts without adjusting the volume on your earbuds, but if you've ever been to a live orchestra concert, you know that pianissimo can be so quiet that everyone holds their breath, and then fortissimo can be as loud as a rock concert! Basically, DV sets a brightness range for the film you are watching based on the abilities of the TV. So with HDR, the brightest light will display at the brightest nits available in the set, and the darkest blacks at the darkest available for the set. Then it sets everything else on a scale in between that. If it artificially pushed the brightness for mid range bright colors, it would kill the contrast of things, and you would essentially end up seeing clipping. Basically, it would look like SDR content with the brightness jacked up. The whole point of HDR is to see those extra bright peaks that have never before been available in home entertainment, because of the limited range of screen brightness. Now you can have a bright sky, but the sun can poke through it as it does in real life. In a rainy scene the headlights of a car or flashlight can beam through the haze with clarity. And lightning and fire appear hotter and more dangerous than ever!



That's not to say that I think the 900F has the PERFECT implementation of HDR and Dolby Vision. I certainly think that if Sony bothered to tweak a couple of things, it would come close, though.



Here's an experiment to try if you're thus far underwhelmed by HDR and Dolby Vision: Take a movie that you have available in Dolby Vision and find a part of it that is pretty middle brightness, maybe an indoor well lit setting. Try to take a picture of the screen, or just flip back and forth between SDR and HDR if possible (this is easy on an Apple TV, just disable Match Dynamic Range; if that's not an option try a movie that you own in 4K, but can also stream in HD elsewhere, though that will be less exact of a match). Then adjust the brightness in your SDR picture settings until the mid ranges are about the same as on the Dolby Vision copy, likely this will result in a much lower Brightness setting. Try watching SDR content with those settings for a few days, you will probably adjust to it fairly easily. Then watch something in Dolby Vision, and be wowed by the extra bright colors that occasionally occur, bringing the image to life!



Sorry for the ramble-y post; I guess I have opinions on this!


This description is very spot on and closely matches my experience with the 900F. I put a meter on my TV and measured 100, 150 and 200 nits at brightness settings of 4, 10 and 13 respectively which are the recommended levels for dark, dim and bright rooms. This again comes back to the whole ‘reference’ vs ‘preference’ concept when it comes to reproduction of video content at home.

It is also interesting to note that when the 900F Light Sensor is activated with the Brightness setting at maximum, the TV closely mirrors these recommended light output levels.


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Last edited by samorist; 04-17-2019 at 11:35 PM.
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post #8215 of 9106 Old 04-18-2019, 08:42 AM
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Question about Apple TV 4K use with the X900F

So I was considering getting an Apple TV 4K despite initially thinking I could live with the Sony's built in apps. For those of you that have this device maybe you could help answer a few of my questions?

The issues I have with the internal Sony apps:
1. Amazon 4K programming is a stuttering mess (especially when changing any settings including volume during playback)
2. Vudu will not play ATMOS audio; only 5.1 (even the compressed version of ATMOS)

Will an Apple TV correct these two issues? Also, what other possible improvements might I notice with any of these apps (Google Play Movies, Fandango, Netflix, Amazon or Vudu)? Is the apple TV compatible with all-in-one remotes such as a Harmony remote?

I would be hooking this device up to a Pioneer VSX-LX303 Receiver and then to the TV thru the ARC HDMI port. Due to the fairly steep price I was trying my best to simply live with the built in apps but if there are enough improvements to I finally tip over to the Apple side.

Thanks in advance.

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post #8216 of 9106 Old 04-18-2019, 09:18 AM
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Short article on Game of Thrones.... Points out cinematographers are going more for dark lighting. In such situations HDR (HDR10 & Dolby Vision) can really help with a wide contrast and color (aka light) range.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/04/ga...ee-1202059546/
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post #8217 of 9106 Old 04-18-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Educated Idiot View Post
The issues I have with the internal Sony apps:
1. Amazon 4K programming is a stuttering mess (especially when changing any settings including volume during playback)
2. Vudu will not play ATMOS audio; only 5.1 (even the compressed version of ATMOS)

Will an Apple TV correct these two issues? Also, what other possible improvements might I notice with any of these apps (Google Play Movies, Fandango, Netflix, Amazon or Vudu)? Is the apple TV compatible with all-in-one remotes such as a Harmony remote?
I don't use Amazon Prime all that much. I've watched parts of movies more so than entire films. I haven't noticed a whole lot of stuttering on Apple TV 4k, though I would say that in general, Amazon's streaming seems much shakier to load and buffer compared to other services; but I also haven't ever used the built-in app for comparison.

Vudu 100% supports compressed Atmos on the Apple TV 4K; as long as you connect the device direct to your receiver or soundbar, it will work great!
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post #8218 of 9106 Old 04-18-2019, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Educated Idiot View Post
So I was considering getting an Apple TV 4K despite initially thinking I could live with the Sony's built in apps. For those of you that have this device maybe you could help answer a few of my questions?

The issues I have with the internal Sony apps:
1. Amazon 4K programming is a stuttering mess (especially when changing any settings including volume during playback)
2. Vudu will not play ATMOS audio; only 5.1 (even the compressed version of ATMOS)

Will an Apple TV correct these two issues? Also, what other possible improvements might I notice with any of these apps (Google Play Movies, Fandango, Netflix, Amazon or Vudu)? Is the apple TV compatible with all-in-one remotes such as a Harmony remote?

I would be hooking this device up to a Pioneer VSX-LX303 Receiver and then to the TV thru the ARC HDMI port. Due to the fairly steep price I was trying my best to simply live with the built in apps but if there are enough improvements to I finally tip over to the Apple side.

Thanks in advance.
I recently picked up the ATV4k as I couldn't take the issues with the internal apps. They seemed to work fine before the Oreo firmware update and Sony still hasn't fixed it- almost 4 months later!!
I have no issues with the ATV4k and it was a welcome addition, even with me being an Android guy. It's a lot snappier than the native apps and zero stuttering issues with the apps we use (Prime Video, Netflix, and DirecTV Now for live streaming). And the 4k fly-over screensavers are gorgeous.
The ATV4k is set to output 4K SDR and goes into my Yamaha AVR and out to the TV. I don't use ARC, again because the Oreo update broke it. Upscaling seems terrific with no noticeable difference to me than the Sony upscaling.
I use a Harmony Hub with companion remote without issue.
The only problem I have is my AVR doesn't support Dolby Vision. So I either watch Netflix without DV or use the internal app for any DV content. Not a showstopper to me.
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post #8219 of 9106 Old 04-18-2019, 12:31 PM
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Thanks for the feedback rafffster & tag66. I am not an Apple guy either but they seem to be nailing it with this product and their 4K film service (quality and price) compared to the competition. I just have a hard time buying something that does something my TV already does but am trying to have other help convince me with the many pluses I guess. Having more stable (non-stuttering; seems to be mainly an Amazon thing) streaming and Dolby Atmos from a few more of the apps seems like the two main things I am seeing improvements with. I was hoping maybe there were other solid reasons (sounds like the screensaver may be another).

I am still on the previous OS so maybe I will still be ok using the ARC HDMI port (for one cable ease), working for me fine at the moment luckily. I have an extra certified monoprice cable which may be a great fit for this little device.

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post #8220 of 9106 Old 04-18-2019, 02:11 PM
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I just got an AppleTV 4k for my 900F as well -- the promo code discount from Fry's helped me take the plunge. HBO Go works and looks better than Comcast's downscaled feed (the Android TV version still doesn't work for those on Comcast). Just in time for the GOT premiere.


As you say, the iTunes 4k movie library is nice as well -- I got tired of waiting for the local Redbox to offer UHD rentals. The Sony remote works out of the box to control the Apple TV so that was a nice bonus.
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