Vizio Unveils 2018 E-Series, M-Series and P-Series 4K HDR Smart TVs - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 4461 Old 04-30-2018, 04:14 PM
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I see Vizio dropped the price of the 2018 P another $100. If Costco could go ahead and get these in stock now that would be greaaaaat.
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post #422 of 4461 Old 04-30-2018, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owlzfan84 View Post
I've narrowed my tv down to 2. The 2018 65 P Series, and the 2018 TCL 6 Series. The tv will mainly be used for gaming. I know the TCL has great input lag, but i'm still waiting to find out what the 2018 Vizio's have to offer. Does anyone have any idea? I hope it's better than last year. It's the only reason I didn't get the P series. That HDR input lag was terrible.

The one thing that may get me to cancel my TCL order is the motion. I'm coming from a Plasma tv and i'm not sure about the 60 hz.


Yes I just got an M series 2017 for $950 so I am bummed that had I waited a few months I'd get the 2018 P for $250 more but... I love my M and use it primarily for streaming movies and cable tv and will live with it for a while... I also have a 55" TCL 2017 P series that I use almost exclusively for TV and Gaming... but man the NEW 2018 Vizio P at $799? 120hz, decent amount of dimming zones 1000 nits (compared to about 600 on the 17 TCL) .... only thing is the input lag,.. if I ca get HDR gaming at 30ish ms or under I could live with that in game mode. Hope they improved this
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post #423 of 4461 Old 04-30-2018, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by radckh View Post
Kinda weird for the newer model to cost less than the previous year's model.
Not at all. I paid $333 in 1978 ($1300 in today's dollars) for a Sony 12" Trinitron (KV-1205). And that was a great deal, on sale. Without adjusting for inflation, I can buy a 55" today for that, or a 24" for $80. And either has a better display and features. Consumer electronics - features go up, prices go down, or both. They make money on the churn (remember 3D?).
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post #424 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by sudz View Post
Costco sells the P-Series in store as well, i purchased one going on 2 months ago now and a few Costco retailers had them in stock. One thing i had to do however was write Costco and ask them which stores in my area had the P series in stock, out of the five or six locations three had the P series stocked while the remaining stores had the M series units avaialble.

I am thinking on average the 2017 and 2018 P series are pretty much the same. Sure 128 zones to 100 zones is a change but in real life performance i would think it will be relatively a small issue. The Nits is an interesting one, don't know if that is referenced number is apples to apples in measurement, and would like a side by side test to see what reality reveals. Would this be hardware or software or both, only time will tell. At the moment i can always exchange mine for a 2018 model but thinking it isn't worth the bother as i believe their will be little in tangible benefits if at all. I am hearing the same firmware is happening across all the 2016 to 2018 lines. I would think for the most part there will be little difference other than making the jump to the PQ series which is now their high end model and differentiated from all the rest.

I have never seen a P-series Vizio in-store but I have only been in the 2 Winnipeg locations and 1 Medicine Hat location.
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post #425 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by nToXiK View Post
I have never seen a P-series Vizio in-store but I have only been in the 2 Winnipeg locations and 1 Medicine Hat location.


I would just check because they show up randomly at my local store. When i first bought my P series last August there were no stores close or far with any P series in stock. About a month or 2 ago I went food shopping at costco and they had the P Series on sale and a pretty good amount in stock.

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post #426 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 09:55 AM
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I've never seen a P at Costco anywhere in SF Bay Area or NorCal. Would be nice to see.

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post #427 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by nToXiK View Post
I have never seen a P-series Vizio in-store but I have only been in the 2 Winnipeg locations and 1 Medicine Hat location.
In BC, Costco doesn't keep P series in store, I had to order online. It came with shattered screen, so I returned it and bought M series from local store.
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post #428 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 11:54 AM
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Is it set in stone that the input lag on the Vizio 55 2018 P wont be anywhere close to the TCL 6 series with Game mode on? Shooters are my favorite genre on consoles (Battlefield /Pubg) so I need low input lag.
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post #429 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
2018 adds a tuner, higher brightness but less FALD dimming zones
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Thanks! higher brightness seems to be the attractive.
Any changes for M series between 2017 and 2018 models?
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post #430 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by eagles7251 View Post
Is it set in stone that the input lag on the Vizio 55 2018 P wont be anywhere close to the TCL 6 series with Game mode on? Shooters are my favorite genre on consoles (Battlefield /Pubg) so I need low input lag.
If you don't plan HDR gaming, you can use HDMI 5 for regular gaming which has similar lag to TCL.
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post #431 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by klocker View Post
Yes I just got an M series 2017 for $950 so I am bummed that had I waited a few months I'd get the 2018 P for $250 more but... I love my M and use it primarily for streaming movies and cable tv and will live with it for a while... I also have a 55" TCL 2017 P series that I use almost exclusively for TV and Gaming... but man the NEW 2018 Vizio P at $799? 120hz, decent amount of dimming zones 1000 nits (compared to about 600 on the 17 TCL) .... only thing is the input lag,.. if I ca get HDR gaming at 30ish ms or under I could live with that in game mode. Hope they improved this
I'm with you on that. I'm not looking for TCL input numbers, but if they can get sub 30ms HDR gaming, I would purchase in a heartbeat.
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post #432 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by him7403 View Post
If you don't plan HDR gaming, you can use HDMI 5 for regular gaming which has similar lag to TCL.
If you use a receiver to route your HDMI through one cable, what do you do? Get a duplexer for behind the TV for hdmi5 and another input?

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post #433 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by him7403 View Post
Thanks! higher brightness seems to be the attractive.
Any changes for M series between 2017 and 2018 models?
2018 Brightness specs are actually lower than what was tested for 2017, but I haven't seen any reviews for the 2018 to confirm the actual brightness attained. Zones are the same or slightly higher depending on screen size. Tuner has been added across all screen sizes.
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post #434 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Owlzfan84 View Post
I've narrowed my tv down to 2. The 2018 65 P Series, and the 2018 TCL 6 Series. The tv will mainly be used for gaming. I know the TCL has great input lag, but i'm still waiting to find out what the 2018 Vizio's have to offer. Does anyone have any idea? I hope it's better than last year. It's the only reason I didn't get the P series. That HDR input lag was terrible.

The one thing that may get me to cancel my TCL order is the motion. I'm coming from a Plasma tv and i'm not sure about the 60 hz.
I own a Panasonic VT60 and I just bought a TCL R617 which I received yesterday morning. I can tell you that you have nothing to worry about with the motion on the TCL R617. It's excellent. In fact, I actually prefer its motion over the motion on my VT60.

The motion resolution is still higher on the VT60, but the TCL R617 has fewer motion artifacts. The plasma suffers from really bad false contouring on objects during motion. A lot of people seemed to ignore this issue, but for me it always seriously hurt the clarity and quality of images in motion. The other issue that affects motion clarity on the VT60 is the phosphor lag or phosphor trails on objects in motion. The leading edge of things in motion is a purplish color and the trailing edge is a yellowish color. This pollutes the colors on screen and contributes to less clarity during motion.

The TCL R617 seems to have fast pixel response times and I see almost no ghosting or trails behind objects in motion. And beyond that it is artifact free while in motion.

The other thing you should realize is that a native 120Hz will NOT give you better motion quality than a native 60Hz with 120hz backlight strobing (like the R617) with all common forms of content. Console games, 24fps movies, 30fps and 60fps video...none of these things will look any better on a 120hz display vs 60Hz display. Provided that the 60Hz display can also refresh at 48Hz (like the R617 can) and therefor give you judder free 24fps movie playback.

There are only two reasons you should care about a native 120Hz display:

1. You have a powerful gaming PC capable of maintaining 120fps in modern games and don't mind dropping down to 1080p resolution.
(I do have a powerful gaming PC, but it still can't maintain a solid 120fps in modern games even at 1080p. AND I don't want to have to drop down to 1080p on a nice 4k display)

2. You love motion interpolation and want your display to be able to create even more fake frames.
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post #435 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 02:27 PM
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I own a Panasonic VT60 and I just bought a TCL R617 which I received yesterday morning. I can tell you that you have nothing to worry about with the motion on the TCL R617. It's excellent. In fact, I actually prefer its motion over the motion on my VT60.

The motion resolution is still higher on the VT60, but the TCL R617 has fewer motion artifacts. The plasma suffers from really bad false contouring on objects during motion. A lot of people seemed to ignore this issue, but for me it always seriously hurt the clarity and quality of images in motion. The other issue that affects motion clarity on the VT60 is the phosphor lag or phosphor trails on objects in motion. The leading edge of things in motion is a purplish color and the trailing edge is a yellowish color. This pollutes the colors on screen and contributes to less clarity during motion.

The TCL R617 seems to have fast pixel response times and I see almost no ghosting or trails behind objects in motion. And beyond that it is artifact free while in motion.

The other thing you should realize is that a native 120Hz will NOT give you better motion quality than a native 60Hz with 120hz backlight strobing (like the R617) with all common forms of content. Console games, 24fps movies, 30fps and 60fps video...none of these things will look any better on a 120hz display vs 60Hz display. Provided that the 60Hz display can also refresh at 48Hz (like the R617 can) and therefor give you judder free 24fps movie playback.

There are only two reasons you should care about a native 120Hz display:

1. You have a powerful gaming PC capable of maintaining 120fps in modern games and don't mind dropping down to 1080p resolution.
(I do have a powerful gaming PC, but it still can't maintain a solid 120fps in modern games even at 1080p. AND I don't want to have to drop down to 1080p on a nice 4k display)

2. You love motion interpolation and want your display to be able to create even more fake frames.
^^^^
Oh goody. The invasion of the TCL fanboys has begun.

His question was:
Quote:
i'm still waiting to find out what the 2018 Vizio's have to offer. Does anyone have any idea?
Any comments about that?
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post #436 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken McPherson View Post
^^^^
Oh goody. The invasion of the TCL fanboys has begun.

Yeah it seems so and is inevitable for fanboys to start popping up. But to be fair I think the new TCL 6 series is a legitimate bang for the buck contender. Had they come out with a 75" version, it would definitely make it a tough choice for me. I'm waiting for reviews first and also I like that there's a 75" Vizio P for 2018. Also, I'm trying to hold off until later or end of the year to catch a good sale...
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post #437 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 02:58 PM
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Yeah it seems so and is inevitable for fanboys to start popping up. But to be fair I think the new TCL 6 series is a legitimate bang for the buck contender. Had they come out with a 75" version, it would definitely make it a tough choice for me. I'm waiting for reviews first and also I like that there's a 75" Vizio P for 2018. Also, I'm trying to hold off until later or end of the year to catch a good sale...
I have no issue with direct TCL feature comparisons in this thread. But sycophantic commercials for TCL belong in the TCL threads.
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post #438 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 03:03 PM
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No offense to any TCL owners but I would personally go with a proven name and product like Vizio. The things that I'm reading in the TCL thread I do not like. Lines in the screen, bad uniformity, and motion issues. This is coming from someone with no skin in the game, I have the Sony 900E but it's just my observations.

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post #439 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken McPherson View Post
^^^^
Oh goody. The invasion of the TCL fanboys has begun.

His question was: Any comments about that?
Oh jeez. Just because I said something good about a particular TV doesn't mean I'm a fanboy. This is the first TCL TV I've owned. I have experience owning many different TVs and the truth is, all TVs have their pros and cons.

I myself was considering the 2018 Vizio P and I still think it's going to be a fantastic TV. I don't begrudge anyone for choosing to buy it.

I was simply addressing his concerns about motion on the 6 series and giving him further perspective on the refresh rate issue. There is a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to the question of refresh rate and motion quality in general. I'm trying to help people to better understand it and make more informed buying decisions, but ultimately I don't care what they choose to buy. I think Vizio makes some fine televisions.
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post #440 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
No offense to any TCL owners but I would personally go with a proven name and product like Vizio. The things that I'm reading in the TCL thread I do not like. Lines in the screen, bad uniformity, and motion issues. This is coming from someone with no skin in the game, I have the Sony 900E but it's just my observations.

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It's such a crapshoot anymore no matter the brand. I've been a fan of the Vizio P series but after the panel issues have been gunshy. My buddy(who I pointed to an OLED) has developed burn in in 6 months on his LG without ever watching TV or having any major static image displayed. Beautiful set but he's furious and rightfully so.

It's all a lottery anymore.
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post #441 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 03:16 PM
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I think Vizio makes some fine televisions.
Great. So if you have anything to add about the 2018 Vizios, I look forward to your comments.
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post #442 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by reaperztoll View Post
It's such a crapshoot anymore no matter the brand. I've been a fan of the Vizio P series but after the panel issues have been gunshy. My buddy(who I pointed to an OLED) has developed burn in in 6 months on his LG without ever watching TV or having any major static image displayed. Beautiful set but he's furious and rightfully so.

It's all a lottery anymore.
Yeah that burn in with OLED is what caused me to go with the 900E. It's a real thing even though there are people who say it isn't.

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post #443 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 03:31 PM
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Sounds like the Vizio guys get a little upset with competition. shhhhhh

Current Sets: Sony XBR65A9F Master Series, Sony XBR75X940C, Sony XBR75X940D, Samsung UN65KS9800, TCL 65R617
Previous Sets: Samsung Q9FN, Sony XBR65X930D, XBR65X900B, XBR49X830C, Samsung KS8000, KU6500, UN55KS8500, UN49JS8500, JS9000, JU7090, JU6500, JU6400, HU9000, HU7250, PN64F8500, Vizio P65, LG 65EF9500, LG 55EC9300, Hisense 55H8C, TCL P-Series (55P607)
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post #444 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by reaperztoll View Post
My buddy(who I pointed to an OLED) has developed burn in in 6 months on his LG without ever watching TV or having any major static image displayed.
If he hasn't watched any TV, what has he been doing with the OLED? Playing games?
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post #445 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 03:45 PM
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No offense to any TCL owners but I would personally go with a proven name and product like Vizio. The things that I'm reading in the TCL thread I do not like. Lines in the screen, bad uniformity, and motion issues. This is coming from someone with no skin in the game, I have the Sony 900E but it's just my observations.

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You should browse the last few months of the Vizio P-series thread before making a rec like that about Vizio...
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post #446 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 03:49 PM
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If he hasn't watched any TV, what has he been doing with the OLED? Playing games?
Movies and video games only, he has a projector in his great room for television. Probably a 90/10 split at most since he doesn't game much at all anymore, point being it's been varied content the entire time and I doubt he ever has the set on longer than 3 hours at a time.

I don't want to side track this thread, I was just trying to make the point that established brand or not most of the technology anymore is a roll of the dice.
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post #447 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by reaperztoll View Post
It's such a crapshoot anymore no matter the brand. I've been a fan of the Vizio P series but after the panel issues have been gunshy. My buddy(who I pointed to an OLED) has developed burn in in 6 months on his LG without ever watching TV or having any major static image displayed. Beautiful set but he's furious and rightfully so.

It's all a lottery anymore.

I love the picture an OLED produces... but after owning 2 top of the line Panasonic Plasmas where both developed burn in of news logos just from every day regular usage, I am staying away from any display technology that is burn-in sensitive.
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post #448 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 04:02 PM
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You should browse the last few months of the Vizio P-series thread before making a rec like that about Vizio...
I had a P series TCL and a M series Vizio from last year. The Vizio DSE was just as terrible.
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post #449 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 04:17 PM
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You should browse the last few months of the Vizio P-series thread before making a rec like that about Vizio...
Yeah well people bitch about every manufacturer. The 900E is one of the best reviewed TVs of last year and the owners thread is full of hate and complaints.
The TCL just came out and it's about uniformity issues, motion, lines in the screen. I see there are TCL fanboys starting to come out too. We don't need a quantum Opotheosis TCL fanboy that's for sure.

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post #450 of 4461 Old 05-01-2018, 04:26 PM
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I actually like when people bring in other brands, and I don't think they are "fanboys". They are just really happy with their choice. And that's a good thing to me, because all you hear usually are the complaints, which skews everything into the negative regarding a product. I think also, that there is a lot of variation in one's perception of quality regarding one television versus another. What totally bothers one person may not even be noticed by another. I also worry about looking at those funny chroma graph things and then making a decision based on that. Anyway, instead of settling just on one brand and locking in, at least others may discuss other brands and I might look at their choices.
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