Vizio Unveils 2018 E-Series, M-Series and P-Series 4K HDR Smart TVs - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 4460 Old 05-01-2018, 03:32 PM
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I own a Panasonic VT60 and I just bought a TCL R617 which I received yesterday morning. I can tell you that you have nothing to worry about with the motion on the TCL R617. It's excellent. In fact, I actually prefer its motion over the motion on my VT60.

The motion resolution is still higher on the VT60, but the TCL R617 has fewer motion artifacts. The plasma suffers from really bad false contouring on objects during motion. A lot of people seemed to ignore this issue, but for me it always seriously hurt the clarity and quality of images in motion. The other issue that affects motion clarity on the VT60 is the phosphor lag or phosphor trails on objects in motion. The leading edge of things in motion is a purplish color and the trailing edge is a yellowish color. This pollutes the colors on screen and contributes to less clarity during motion.

The TCL R617 seems to have fast pixel response times and I see almost no ghosting or trails behind objects in motion. And beyond that it is artifact free while in motion.

The other thing you should realize is that a native 120Hz will NOT give you better motion quality than a native 60Hz with 120hz backlight strobing (like the R617) with all common forms of content. Console games, 24fps movies, 30fps and 60fps video...none of these things will look any better on a 120hz display vs 60Hz display. Provided that the 60Hz display can also refresh at 48Hz (like the R617 can) and therefor give you judder free 24fps movie playback.

There are only two reasons you should care about a native 120Hz display:

1. You have a powerful gaming PC capable of maintaining 120fps in modern games and don't mind dropping down to 1080p resolution.
(I do have a powerful gaming PC, but it still can't maintain a solid 120fps in modern games even at 1080p. AND I don't want to have to drop down to 1080p on a nice 4k display)

2. You love motion interpolation and want your display to be able to create even more fake frames.
Thank you so much for your response. The only thing now potentially cancelling my pre order is the lack of ports. I guess I could get a splitter, but the Reviews on Amazon seem all over the place.
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post #452 of 4460 Old 05-01-2018, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Owlzfan84 View Post
I've narrowed my tv down to 2. The 2018 65 P Series, and the 2018 TCL 6 Series. The tv will mainly be used for gaming. I know the TCL has great input lag, but i'm still waiting to find out what the 2018 Vizio's have to offer. Does anyone have any idea? I hope it's better than last year. It's the only reason I didn't get the P series. That HDR input lag was terrible.

The one thing that may get me to cancel my TCL order is the motion. I'm coming from a Plasma tv and i'm not sure about the 60 hz.
I own a Panasonic VT60 and I just bought a TCL R617 which I received yesterday morning. I can tell you that you have nothing to worry about with the motion on the TCL R617. It's excellent. In fact, I actually prefer its motion over the motion on my VT60.

The motion resolution is still higher on the VT60, but the TCL R617 has fewer motion artifacts. The plasma suffers from really bad false contouring on objects during motion. A lot of people seemed to ignore this issue, but for me it always seriously hurt the clarity and quality of images in motion. The other issue that affects motion clarity on the VT60 is the phosphor lag or phosphor trails on objects in motion. The leading edge of things in motion is a purplish color and the trailing edge is a yellowish color. This pollutes the colors on screen and contributes to less clarity during motion.

The TCL R617 seems to have fast pixel response times and I see almost no ghosting or trails behind objects in motion. And beyond that it is artifact free while in motion.

The other thing you should realize is that a native 120Hz will NOT give you better motion quality than a native 60Hz with 120hz backlight strobing (like the R617) with all common forms of content. Console games, 24fps movies, 30fps and 60fps video...none of these things will look any better on a 120hz display vs 60Hz display. Provided that the 60Hz display can also refresh at 48Hz (like the R617 can) and therefor give you judder free 24fps movie playback.

There are only two reasons you should care about a native 120Hz display:

1. You have a powerful gaming PC capable of maintaining 120fps in modern games and don't mind dropping down to 1080p resolution.
(I do have a powerful gaming PC, but it still can't maintain a solid 120fps in modern games even at 1080p. AND I don't want to have to drop down to 1080p on a nice 4k display)

2. You love motion interpolation and want your display to be able to create even more fake frames.

I have a 1080ti along with a 2016 visio p65. 99% of the time I play PC games on 1080p 120hz which holds in almost every game. 4k with all the bells and whistles is much tougher maintaining 60 fps. Secondly, if you have ever used a 120 hz or above monitor you would understand that motion is night and day difference from a 60hz panel. For reference , google UFO motion tests. The difference in blur between 120hz and 60 hz is night and day. I just hope they keep the clear action option @120 hz with zero strobing detected. The lag number with 1080p @ 120hz is around 10 or 11ms.
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post #453 of 4460 Old 05-01-2018, 03:38 PM
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I had a P series TCL and a M series Vizio from last year. The Vizio DSE was just as terrible.
People say the DSE on last year's TCL was terrible too. That said, yeah every brand has their fair share of complaints. For me that notion helps to keep things in perspective as I still have confidence in Vizio.
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post #454 of 4460 Old 05-01-2018, 04:26 PM
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Sry if I missed it, does anyone know when these are hitting stores?
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post #455 of 4460 Old 05-01-2018, 04:43 PM
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No offense to any TCL owners but I would personally go with a proven name and product like Vizio.
Vizio is known in the US. TCL is known worldwide. In 2017, TCL had ~11% worldwide market share (behind only Samsung and LG), Vizio had <3%. Would you like to take this opportunitiy to revise your opinion of which one is "proven?"
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Oh jeez. Just because I said something good about a particular TV doesn't mean I'm a fanboy.
Perhaps not, but posting in a thread specific to a different brand sure provides evidence of that.
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post #456 of 4460 Old 05-01-2018, 04:54 PM
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I have a 1080ti along with a 2016 visio p65. 99% of the time I play PC games on 1080p 120hz which holds in almost every game. 4k with all the bells and whistles is much tougher maintaining 60 fps. Secondly, if you have ever used a 120 hz or above monitor you would understand that motion is night and day difference from a 60hz panel. For reference , google UFO motion tests. The difference in blur between 120hz and 60 hz is night and day. I just hope they keep the clear action option @120 hz with zero strobing detected. The lag number with 1080p @ 120hz is around 10 or 11ms.
I didn't mean for it to sound like it's a worthless feature. For those that want to play PC games at 120fps and have the means to do so it is a very valuable feature and I can understand it playing a significant part in their buying decision.

I do know the value of higher framerates. I have a 144Hz G-Sync monitor and I agree with you that the difference is quite dramatic.

But I have a GTX 1070 and I find that many of the current games I like to play cannot maintain such a high frame rate consistently. That's where G-Sync (variable refresh rate capability in general) offers a huge advantage.

For me, personally, I just didn't feel that playing my PC games on a 120Hz TV at 1080p was a super attractive feature that I needed to have. Partially because I already have a G-Sync monitor and partially because my graphics card and processor can't maintain 120fps/1080p in many of the games I play. I'm not one of those people that can deal with my framerates dipping below the refresh rate and getting stutter. I can't stand it. So without variable refresh rate to maintain smoothness and responsiveness even when I'm not getting the ideal framerate I just don't care too much about the higher refresh rate.

Once HDMI 2.1 makes it into TVs and features like variable refresh rate and 4k/120Hz are actually supported I'm definitely going to be wanting the higher refresh rate. I'll buy a new TV at that point.

But, to reiterate, anyone who does care about PC gaming at 120fps/1080p should absolutely be considering TVs with native 120Hz refresh rate. That's where it's really going to benefit you.
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post #457 of 4460 Old 05-01-2018, 05:18 PM
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Vizio is known in the US. TCL is known worldwide. In 2017, TCL had ~11% worldwide market share (behind only Samsung and LG), Vizio had <3%. Would you like to take this opportunitiy to revise your opinion of which one is "proven?"
Perhaps not, but posting in a thread specific to a different brand sure provides evidence of that.
I'm not revising anything. I live here in the US and I never heard of this Chinese brand till last year. There are much better options for just a bit more money. I'm not dogging on them either. If you have a hard budget this is a great way to go. I personally do not like some of the things I'm reading about though.

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post #458 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 03:45 AM
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Maybe someone should start a Vizio vs TCL thread? I am proud of TCL though because Vizio knocked off a $100 on the 55 and 65 P. Patiently waiting for the P to release to make a decision.
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post #459 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 03:48 AM
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I want to check out hopefully somewhere the P Quantum display. I have no clue who is going to carry it in the store though.

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post #460 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 04:01 AM
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I’m following this as well. I’ve had a Sony 75x900e and 2 Sony 75x900f’s in the past month all with some sort of defect that should’ve never made it out of the factory. I’m scheduled to get another this week and if it’s not acceptable going to say to hell with it and hope the new P series releases soon. I’ve only had a 75” for a month so if reviews are solid I may even consider downsizing to the PQ if it’s considerably better than the P. I can always move my couch forward a few feet or rearrange my living room if needed.
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post #461 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 05:22 AM
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I want to check out hopefully somewhere the P Quantum display. I have no clue who is going to carry it in the store though.
You have at least a two month wait for that one.
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post #462 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 05:40 AM
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Thank you so much for your response. The only thing now potentially cancelling my pre order is the lack of ports. I guess I could get a splitter, but the Reviews on Amazon seem all over the place.
Most AV aficionados use an AV receiver to do switching and so the lack of ports is not a big deal in most use cases
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post #463 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 05:53 AM
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You have at least a two month wait for that one.
That's ok. I'm not in the market, just want to check it out. The 900E that I have is just fine for me.

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post #464 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 06:04 AM
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Thank you so much for your response. The only thing now potentially cancelling my pre order is the lack of ports. I guess I could get a splitter, but the Reviews on Amazon seem all over the place.
I have a Kinovo 1080p 3 port switch that hasn’t given me an issue in the past two years. I was eyeballing a switch made by Awakelion for 4K60 HDR duties and from what I’ve read it should be fully capable of doing so. For me it’s just a convenience to use one and I decided I didn’t really need it so I didn’t buy it. My cousin uses one without issues.
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post #465 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 06:54 AM
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Anyone know a release date yet?


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post #466 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 07:03 AM
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Anyone know a release date yet?


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Those that know certainly can't say if there are review NDA's out there.

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Most AV aficionados use an AV receiver to do switching and so the lack of ports is not a big deal in most use cases
I would love to get one, but It was tough to convince the wife to spend about 1100 dollars after tax for a 65 inch tv. Not sure I'll be able to talk her into spending another 300-500 on a good AV receiver.

Really I just need one more port for my Switch. I have a PS4 Pro, Apple TV 4k, Vizio sound bar and the Switch.
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post #468 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 08:22 AM
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I would love to get one, but It was tough to convince the wife to spend about 1100 dollars after tax for a 65 inch tv. Not sure I'll be able to talk her into spending another 300-500 on a good AV receiver.

Really I just need one more port for my Switch. I have a PS4 Pro, Apple TV 4k, Vizio sound bar and the Switch.
Buy a cheap monoprice HDMI switch and move on with life.

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post #469 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 08:40 AM
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Anyone know a release date yet?


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Did anyone else get the email this morning from Vizio saying come check out our new 2018 D series? I’m like I don’t care about the D series I want the P series!


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post #470 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 08:49 AM
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Did anyone else get the email this morning from Vizio saying come check out our new 2018 D series? I’m like I don’t care about the D series I want the P series!


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I got that email too.

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post #471 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 08:56 AM
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I got that email too.

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Looks like they are starting the 2018 model roll-out with the budget model first and working there way up. It will be interesting to see how long they wait between models(D,E,M,P).

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post #472 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 08:59 AM
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Looks like they are starting the 2018 model roll-out with the budget model first and working there way up. It will be interesting to see how long they wait between models(D,E,M,P).
Looks that way, yup.

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post #473 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 09:12 AM
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Looks like they are starting the 2018 model roll-out with the budget model first and working there way up. It will be interesting to see how long they wait between models(D,E,M,P).
The M is already out. So that leaves 2 E and P.
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post #474 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 09:51 AM
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The M is already out. So that leaves 2 E and P.
What are the differences between 2017 and 2018 M series?
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post #475 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 10:08 AM
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The M is already out. So that leaves 2 E and P.
I've been signed up for notices from Vizio for a bit, when did they announce the M?

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post #476 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 11:43 AM
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I've been signed up for notices from Vizio for a bit, when did they announce the M?
The day this thread started.
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post #477 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 12:26 PM
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The E 2018 are available to order also at least on the Vizio website (may not be in stores yet). I think we are just waiting on the P (anytime hopefully ) and PQ (late summer)


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post #478 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 12:40 PM
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I've been silently following this thread and I think my patience is close to running out. I've been waiting for reviews on the P55-F1/M55-F0 but still nothing (even though you could purchase the M55-F0). I'm probably going to go with the M55-E0 which from what I've read is a pretty solid tv, um, monitor.
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post #479 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 01:01 PM
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I was at my local Best Buy yesterday (King of Prussia, PA), and they still have only the 2017 D, E and M TVs on display. I asked one of the employees in the TV section, and he said they recently had the Vizio reps in for a visit and that he expected to have the 2018 models on display in two or three weeks. I asked about the P series specifically, since I'm most likely going to buy the P65, and he said he was pretty sure they were going to be carrying those again.

Now, this was from the floor rep at Best Buy, so... grain of salt.
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post #480 of 4460 Old 05-02-2018, 02:51 PM
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The day this thread started.
Right, I'm starting to think no P until June 1. Which 100% sucks, but I'm in no rush.
The TCL just doesn't seem like the TV I want for my budget set.
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