Vizio Unveils 2018 E-Series, M-Series and P-Series 4K HDR Smart TVs - Page 70 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2071 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by hky4life View Post
Is that a 75" or 65" x900f for $2800? If that's a 75" that's 1k off sticker and a pretty damn good deal.
Yeah this is for the 75. Its actually going for $3500 everywhere now (all major retailers).

I'm guessing the first wave of discounts may be coming soon. This is the offer that I got from Greentoe.

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post #2072 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 11:24 AM
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I’m actually surprised at how well the P Series holds up against the LG C8 OLED. Obviously OLED has better contrast and viewing angle, but Vizio holds its own in motion and excels with input lag. I was considering a C8, but may go for the P Series and wait for OLED to mature and get cheaper.
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post #2073 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DanielOKeeffe View Post
Thanks for bringing this to our attention, we've fixed it!

We always disable local dimming for our calibration, but then enable it for individual tests which aim to capture this aspect of the TVs performance. For the P Series 2018, we found the best performance with both 'Medium' for SDR and HDR (it is able to produce the brightest highlights in our real scene test pattern).

We would like to improve our upscaling test to provide objective results, but we haven't found an objective way to measure it yet. You can see some of the difficulties here. On Vizio TVs we receive a lot more complaints about the quality of upscaling versus other TVs which is why we lower their score. We did a side-by-side comparison between the Vizio M-Series 2017 and the TCL R-617, as you can see in this picture (playing a DVD of Planet of the Apes):



You're right that only a single HDR Real Scene with a high APL is a limitation. We are planning to improve our peak brightness testing in the next test bench update to include scenes with different APL. While the absolute results of our HDR Real Scene test do depend a lot on the scene, we've found it corresponds well with relative performance (a brighter TV will perform better with our real scene test pattern).
OK, you just said local dimming is disabled for testing so maybe if it said calibration I wouldn't have thought differently. Thanks for that.

When you say a brighter TV... I think that yes a brighter TV that is brighter nativly (full screen) and one that peaks in the 25% area. Peak brightness should always be specular with a lower APL in my opinion. Similar to what you would see in a real scene....made by the pros that actually produce movies.... Not a made up image that scrolls. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the response but I've mentioned this to you guys since 2016 and you agreed each time and it hasn't changed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
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post #2074 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 11:37 AM
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After a couple weeks with my P65-f1, I can say that the colors and contrast are just beautiful. No DSE or banding, none. The TV is stylish and the overall impression is an impressive sight indeed.

Only gripes:

--input switching is sluggish. Waiting for a firmware upgrade for my Denon receiver so I can route all video through it. Now, I'm using 2 inputs on the Vizio and it's just not very quick.

--Remote kinda shabby

--I was concerned about motion, noticing stuttering when watching Apple TV. I switched on frame matching (i think that's what it's called) and that helped a lot. For Directv, I have the anti judder and clear motion on and unlike many sets, this does not adversely affect the PQ.

Highly recommended.
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post #2075 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by scmtkings4 View Post
Hmm the rtings review actually didn't help me much. While the overall score is pretty close compared to the x900f (8.2 vs 8.3), it seems to me that the sony is better in most of the "important" categories.

It has higher contrast ratio (native), higher brightness, better local dimming, better uniformity as well as "better" upscaling.

So given all this, i'd like to ask for opinions on my scenario again.

$2400 shipped for a p75 or $2800 for the x900f. What do you guys think is the better option here? I'm quite confused on what I should do

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The P series has better black uniformity, better local dimming, and much better input lag as well according to the review. So Sony isn't better in most of your "important" categories if you compare both reviews. To me it's an easy decision the two TV's are nearly equal with everything but price by a huge margin.

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post #2076 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Tremaine Wright View Post
The P series has better black uniformity, better local dimming, and much better input lag as well according to the review. So Sony isn't better in most of your "important" categories if you compare both reviews. To me it's an easy decision the two TV's are nearly equal with everything but price by a huge margin.

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I wouldn't call $400 a huge margin, but I get your point.

I really did want to go with the p-series but with rtings rating the overall picture quality better (higher upscale rating is important to me also because I watch a lot of cable, also I watch a lot of sports which they rate the 900f better at) I think I will end up getting the x900f.

However I may pick up a smaller size vizio for my bedroom.

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post #2077 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Umlaut56 View Post
After a couple weeks with my P65-f1, I can say that the colors and contrast are just beautiful. No DSE or banding, none. The TV is stylish and the overall impression is an impressive sight indeed.

Only gripes:

--input switching is sluggish. Waiting for a firmware upgrade for my Denon receiver so I can route all video through it. Now, I'm using 2 inputs on the Vizio and it's just not very quick.

--Remote kinda shabby

--I was concerned about motion, noticing stuttering when watching Apple TV. I switched on frame matching (i think that's what it's called) and that helped a lot. For Directv, I have the anti judder and clear motion on and unlike many sets, this does not adversely affect the PQ.

Highly recommended.

So if I'm understanding what you wrote, does that mean turning on match frame rate on the AppleTV will cause it to output a 24Hz signal? The lack of 60hz judder reduction was one of the big drawbacks I saw for me on the rtings rating vs the x900f.


Also if that's the case, does that work with all content going through apple tv (such as netflix, hulu, etc.) or is it just for the movies played via itunes rental/purchase?
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post #2078 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by scmtkings4 View Post
I wouldn't call $400 a huge margin, but I get your point.

I really did want to go with the p-series but with rtings rating the overall picture quality better (higher upscale rating is important to me also because I watch a lot of cable, also I watch a lot of sports which they rate the 900f better at) I think I will end up getting the x900f.

However I may pick up a smaller size vizio for my bedroom.

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Your getting an extremely good deal on the Sony and in the end it's all about one's preference. I'm sure u will enjoy the Sony.

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post #2079 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Senchou View Post
So if I'm understanding what you wrote, does that mean turning on match frame rate on the AppleTV will cause it to output a 24Hz signal? The lack of 60hz judder reduction was one of the big drawbacks I saw for me on the rtings rating vs the x900f.


Also if that's the case, does that work with all content going through apple tv (such as netflix, hulu, etc.) or is it just for the movies played via itunes rental/purchase?
I cannot guarantee what signal it is outputting. It did help when watching anything on apple tv, ie, movies from Itunes and Netflix etc. With respect, I suggest that you should compare and eyeball the 2 tv's; I haven't seen a 900f (out of my price range).
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post #2080 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 12:17 PM
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That RTINGS review seals it for me. I sure hope Costco gets these things in soon...
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post #2081 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scmtkings4 View Post
Hmm the rtings review actually didn't help me much. While the overall score is pretty close compared to the x900f (8.2 vs 8.3), it seems to me that the sony is better in most of the "important" categories.

It has higher contrast ratio (native), higher brightness, better local dimming, better uniformity as well as "better" upscaling.

So given all this, i'd like to ask for opinions on my scenario again.

$2400 shipped for a p75 or $2800 for the x900f. What do you guys think is the better option here? I'm quite confused on what I should do

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This is because the 55 P series is the closer one to the X900F when thinking of dimable zones, and I would think that with the higher zone count in the 65" & 75" P series that the results would favor the Vizio much more in all categories.

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post #2082 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptinCrunch View Post
This is because the 55 P series is the closer one to the X900F when thinking of dimable zones, and I would thing that with the higher zone count in the 65" & 75" P series that the results would favor the Vizio much more.
The rtings review was done on a 65 inch p series I believe

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post #2083 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by scmtkings4 View Post
The rtings review was done on a 65 inch p series I believe

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I believe you are correct

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post #2084 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 12:38 PM
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Just bought the 2017 65” P series from Costco for $1099 2 weeks ago. To return and get the 2018 or not?
For $100 more I say absolutely

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post #2085 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bcatwilly View Post
This Vizio looks to be really great TV, no doubt. I suppose that all things considered I am definitely happy with my TCL 6 series 65" for the following reasons:

1. I paid about $230 less from Best Buy than the Vizio would cost me.

2. I absolutely LOVE the Roku OS built-in compared to anything else on other TVs at this point.

3. The brightness on the TCL particularly with HDR is something that I have personally noticed in real content, so wouldn't want to take a step back on that front given that I play a lot of 4K HDR games and movies through my Xbox One X.

4. The input lag is very good overall, but the TCL beats it for 4K HDR gaming at 19.6 ms compared to the Vizio at 27.3 ms. And yes that extra amount does actually matter in gaming, as I did have to adjust a little bit to the 2018 TCL being a little more input lag than the TCL 2017 model at 14.2 ms. So I definitely wouldn't want to regress any further on the input lag given that 4K HDR gaming is probably my primary use on the TV. The review indicates that HDMI Port 5 can do 15.3 ms input lag, BUT that port does not support HDR which makes it not very useful then for me.
I'm in the same boat. I enjoy the TCL and got it for 499. I think the vizio maybe a better overall tv, but I like the price I paid , the brighter hdr and lower input lag.
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post #2086 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 01:28 PM
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Didn’t Rtings review the 55” TCL and not the 65”? I don’t think you can safely compare TCL vs. Vizio if the sizes aren’t the same. There may be differences in peak brightness based on screen size, as the Reviewed.com review claimed a higher HDR peak brightness with the P55 than Rtings did with the P65.
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post #2087 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 01:37 PM
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The inner struggle is real for me. I want to get the Vizio P55 but the 27.3ms HDR input lag versus the TCL 6 series 19.6ms HDR input lag keeps bothering me. I know the motion is probably better onthe Vizio for sports though. Wish I could see the TCL in action playing sports and movies without hassle of buying it then having to return it.
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Originally Posted by spartanshu View Post
That RTINGS review seals it for me. I sure hope Costco gets these things in soon...
Costco, Sam's, Walmart, Target and B&H have the P75-F, for the P65-F see BestBuy.com and B&H, for the P55-F see BestBuy.com, Target and B&H.

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post #2089 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 01:56 PM
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For $100 more I say absolutely

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This is a no-brainer....
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post #2090 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Noydcom View Post
Costco, Sam's, Walmart, Target and B&H have the P75-F, for the P65-F see BestBuy.com and B&H, for the P55-F see BestBuy.com, Target and B&H.
Is costco going to get the 65 or 55 or will they only carry the 75?
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post #2091 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 01:58 PM
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Reviews are fair and what I have experianced with my p-65. My uniformity seems to be better than rtings as I dont have any cloudy areas and only the very slightest banding which is mainly noticible way off axis when the colors are all skewed but nearly invisible direct on (only a neurotic person looking for just the perfect conditions would catch a slight slight hint of it).

For those on the fence vs the x900f I have spent time looking at the x900f and can say I also thought it was a bit brighter. The x900f handles reflections better too. The vizio too me looks a little more contrasty with better darks. Overall I would rather have a x900f because my tv is in a bright room but not at the 60% price increase. The value isnt there in my eyes. It is pushing on pq price territory at that price which I anticipate will be a far superior picture. If it was more like $1500 I would buy the Sony.

Looks like another good option is craigslist/ebay for a 2011 Panasonic 1080 IPS which apparently has a superior picture to the 2018 p series according to the guy from a few pages back...
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post #2092 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by eagles7251 View Post
The inner struggle is real for me. I want to get the Vizio P55 but the 27.3ms HDR input lag versus the TCL 6 series 19.6ms HDR input lag keeps bothering me. I know the motion is probably better onthe Vizio for sports though. Wish I could see the TCL in action playing sports and movies without hassle of buying it then having to return it.

I think sports look fine on the TCL, but I do expect that things would be better for sports in general on the Vizio if that is of primary importance. I don't watch them that often, so the other things are more important since I do way more 4K HDR gaming on the set.
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post #2093 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by LewisD View Post
Didn’t Rtings review the 55” TCL and not the 65”? I don’t think you can safely compare TCL vs. Vizio if the sizes aren’t the same. There may be differences in peak brightness based on screen size, as the Reviewed.com review claimed a higher HDR peak brightness with the P55 than Rtings did with the P65.
Not an issue. The sizes of the panels being referenced here would have little to NO effect on testing. The bigger factor is the standard variances as a result of the manufacturing process from panel to panel, unit to unit. The size isn't the issue. 100 nit variance between Reviewd.com and Rtings is not very dramatic or unheard of. The variances I have read about in regards to the TCL 6 series on the other hand, have been all over the map. Reviews have pegged the R617 peak at anywhere from 650nits to 1173 nits. That is a significant difference.
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post #2094 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 02:24 PM
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I thought the TCL nit thing was a 55 vs 65 issue

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post #2095 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by eagles7251 View Post
The inner struggle is real for me. I want to get the Vizio P55 but the 27.3ms HDR input lag versus the TCL 6 series 19.6ms HDR input lag keeps bothering me. I know the motion is probably better onthe Vizio for sports though. Wish I could see the TCL in action playing sports and movies without hassle of buying it then having to return it.
I play at a high level and have friends that are x-pro fps gamers. Even 10ms on the fringes of perception under a perfect scenario by the best in the world. Maybe I'd like to see the evidence. 7.6ms? Forget about it. That is the time it takes a major league fast ball to travel 1 foot. I highly doubt the best FPS players in the world could identify that in a blind experiment with any reliability.
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Originally Posted by KKO View Post
Reviews are fair and what I have experianced with my p-65. My uniformity seems to be better than rtings as I dont have any cloudy areas and only the very slightest banding which is mainly noticible way off axis when the colors are all skewed but nearly invisible direct on (only a neurotic person looking for just the perfect conditions would catch a slight slight hint of it).

For those on the fence vs the x900f I have spent time looking at the x900f and can say I also thought it was a bit brighter. The x900f handles reflections better too. The vizio too me looks a little more contrasty with better darks. Overall I would rather have a x900f because my tv is in a bright room but not at the 60% price increase. The value isnt there in my eyes. It is pushing on pq price territory at that price which I anticipate will be a far superior picture. If it was more like $1500 I would buy the Sony.

Looks like another good option is craigslist/ebay for a 2011 Panasonic 1080 IPS which apparently has a superior picture to the 2018 p series according to the guy from a few pages back...
Vizios are bad /s

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post #2097 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Noydcom View Post
Costco, Sam's, Walmart, Target and B&H have the P75-F, for the P65-F see BestBuy.com and B&H, for the P55-F see BestBuy.com, Target and B&H.
Will walmart get the P65-F1?
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post #2098 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noydcom View Post
Costco, Sam's, Walmart, Target and B&H have the P75-F, for the P65-F see BestBuy.com and B&H, for the P55-F see BestBuy.com, Target and B&H.
Will walmart get the P65-F1?
A link to it has been up for months on Walmart’s website it’s just never been in stock since it went up.
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post #2099 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 03:40 PM
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So now that we have the P65-F1 Rtings score available, and now that we know it's very comparable to the X900F which is considerably more expensive, what do you all think the PQ65 will score? Do you guys think it could compete with the Q9FN?


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post #2100 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by eagles7251 View Post
The inner struggle is real for me. I want to get the Vizio P55 but the 27.3ms HDR input lag versus the TCL 6 series 19.6ms HDR input lag keeps bothering me. I know the motion is probably better onthe Vizio for sports though. Wish I could see the TCL in action playing sports and movies without hassle of buying it then having to return it. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I have the Vizio P series 2016 and is useless for HDR gaming they lower the input lag a few updates ago but now is over 50ms and the customer service is bad. I know the input lag is lower in the new 2018 tvs but with Vizio you never know maybe in a few months they send you a update and raise the input lag and then you will regret your purchase like me. Go with TCL
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