Vizio Unveils 2018 E-Series, M-Series and P-Series 4K HDR Smart TVs - Page 71 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2101 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 04:07 PM
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The inner struggle is real for me. I want to get the Vizio P55 but the 27.3ms HDR input lag versus the TCL 6 series 19.6ms HDR input lag keeps bothering me. I know the motion is probably better onthe Vizio for sports though. Wish I could see the TCL in action playing sports and movies without hassle of buying it then having to return it. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I play at a high level and have friends that are x-pro fps gamers. Even 10ms on the fringes of perception under a perfect scenario by the best in the world. Maybe I'd like to see the evidence. 7.6ms? Forget about it. That is the time it takes a major league fast ball to travel 1 foot. I highly doubt the best FPS players in the world could identify that in a blind experiment with any reliability.
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The inner struggle is real for me. I want to get the Vizio P55 but the 27.3ms HDR input lag versus the TCL 6 series 19.6ms HDR input lag keeps bothering me. I know the motion is probably better onthe Vizio for sports though. Wish I could see the TCL in action playing sports and movies without hassle of buying it then having to return it. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I have the Vizio P series 2016 and is useless for HDR gaming they lower the input lag a few updates ago but now is over 50ms and the customer service is bad. I know the input lag is lower in the new 2018 tvs but with Vizio you never know maybe in a few months they send you a update and raise the input lag and then you will regret your purchase like me. Go with TCL
Thanks now I am more torn than ever lol 75% videogames 25% movies/ sports.
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post #2102 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 04:09 PM
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I have the P65 F1 and am disappointed in the soft Dish Network picture. I’ve tried the Rtngs settings, Vivid, Calibrated Dark, etc. The Dish picture just looks really soft compared to my 10 year old Panasonic plasma. 4K looks great, but unless I get better Dish performance, I’m returning it and going OLED.
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post #2103 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 04:10 PM
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The inner struggle is real for me. I want to get the Vizio P55 but the 27.3ms HDR input lag versus the TCL 6 series 19.6ms HDR input lag keeps bothering me. I know the motion is probably better onthe Vizio for sports though. Wish I could see the TCL in action playing sports and movies without hassle of buying it then having to return it.


I really can't see the input lag difference between the two as being perceptible to a human. If the 7.7ms is really that important to you, you probably wouldn't be playing in 4K HDR anyway since input lag is even better at 1080p non-hdr. Unless you're making a living out of playing Call of Duty I can't see how the difference between the two matters.
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post #2104 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 04:28 PM
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Do you guys have any comments on the below review from a bestbuy customer for P65-F1?

Picture: If i didnt have a x900e to compare to i would say its great picture quality ,but its not compared to the sony. It's not as clear or sharp and the upscaling is no where near x900e.Trust me i set them up side by side and would watch the same 10 min of a show that looks flawless on the sony looked just ok on the vizio. I just watched a show on x900e and it blew me away i literally thought it was 4k HDR10 so that was the first show i watched when i got this p65-f1 and it looked bad and i found out its only a 1080p stream and the sony just upscaled it so good it looked better than most things streamed on netflix in 4k HDR ,but sadly the vizio's upscaling engine just made it look like 480p-720p not even 1080p.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/reviews...reviewslisting

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post #2105 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 04:29 PM
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I have the P65 F1 and am disappointed in the soft Dish Network picture. I’ve tried the Rtngs settings, Vivid, Calibrated Dark, etc. The Dish picture just looks really soft compared to my 10 year old Panasonic plasma. 4K looks great, but unless I get better Dish performance, I’m returning it and going OLED.
The rtings review points to soft looking 720p upscaling and worse on lower quality content. It's the only thing putting me off this TV. Hopefully the PQ has scaling to match Sony and Samsung. Great panel performance matters little to me if it's not doing a great job of scaling cable content. Was very happy to see the favorable motion comments. Perhaps the scaling will improve with a FW update.

It's a shame that these TVs seem like a steal (and they actually are) but they can't quite cross that premier brand hurdle. Perhaps the PQ will change that and regardless, at this price, the P is a lot of TV anyway.
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post #2106 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 04:42 PM
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Hmm I find 1080 content to upscale fantastic. 1080p streams look great. What is your dish outputting 1080i? How big was your plasma? Keep in mind low res content looks worse and worse the bigger your screen is. Watched some old 480 content and it does look soft but geez 480 on a 65 will be trash no matter what.
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post #2107 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 04:43 PM
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The rtings review points to soft looking 720p upscaling and worse on lower quality content. It's the only thing putting me off this TV. Hopefully the PQ has scaling to match Sony and Samsung. Great panel performance matters little to me if it's not doing a great job of scaling cable content. Was very happy to see the favorable motion comments. Perhaps the scaling will improve with a FW update.

It's a shame that these TVs seem like a steal but they can't quite cross that premier brand hurdle. Perhaps the PQ will change that and regardless, at this price, the P is a lot of TV anyway.
It's definitely soft. When I set the Hopper 3 to 4k, 1080i or 1080p, it's worse. When I set the receiver to 720p, it's better, but still not good. I guess I have to lug this thing back.
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post #2108 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 04:44 PM
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Hmm I find 1080 content to upscale fantastic. 1080p streams look great. What is your dish outputting 1080i? How big was your plasma? Keep in mind low res content looks worse and worse the bigger your screen is. Watched some old 480 content and it does look soft but geez 480 on a 65 will be trash no matter what.
Plasma was 50 inches. Hopper set to 720 look ok, but not as good as my plasma. Setting the receiver to 1080 makes it look worse.
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post #2109 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 04:48 PM
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The rtings review points to soft looking 720p upscaling and worse on lower quality content. It's the only thing putting me off this TV. Hopefully the PQ has scaling to match Sony and Samsung.
Why would you expect the scaler in the PQ to be any different than than the P? It's a possibility but unlikely.
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post #2110 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 04:50 PM
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It's definitely soft. When I set the Hopper 3 to 4k, 1080i or 1080p, it's worse. When I set the receiver to 720p, it's better, but still not good. I guess I have to lug this thing back.
I don't know about your source but if it looks worse at 1080, it's likely originally 720p content being upscaled by your box. I know that at least in some markets, Comcast sends all HD at 720p and if you choose 1080, you are adding a second scaler within the box. Original 1080i broadcasts have suffered a bit in the process. It may not be the internal Vizio scaler that is making that content worse when choosing 1080. Regardless, soft 720p is enough to put me off for now. I hope they address it.
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post #2111 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 04:53 PM
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Do you guys have any comments on the below review from a bestbuy customer for P65-F1?
My comment would be that every review, every comment, every comparison indicates that the Sony has the best video processing on the market. You shouldn't be surprised when this is detailed in yet another review or comment. Choosing the Vizio over the Sony should be done on the merits of the Vizio and that is primarily value. Does the Vizio come close enough to the Sony that the Vizio provides more value? If the answer to that is "yes", you choose the Vizio. If not, choose the Sony.

The Vizio P Series is exactly what I thought the Vizio P Series would be. A relative bargain in 75" size. I still don't know which I'll decide to purchase but it is exactly what it should be.
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Why would you expect the scaler in the PQ to be any different than than the P? It's a possibility but unlikely.
I didn't say expect but it's a definite possibility. You get better scaling in Sony and Samsung in their top sets vs their mid tier. A 900f has better scaling than an 850f and the Z9f will have better scaling than a 900f. Of course they are starting in a good place and the differences aren't huge.
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post #2113 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 05:20 PM
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Keep in mind just going 50 to 65 will make a noticible loss in sharpness on low resolution content with any tv. Id be curious to hear your follow up on how the sony looks from the same source.
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post #2114 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 05:21 PM
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I didn't say expect but it's a definite possibility. You get better scaling in Sony and Samsung in their top sets vs their mid tier. A 900f has better scaling than an 850f and the Z9f will have better scaling than a 900f. Of course they are starting in a good place and the differences aren't huge.
Rtings rated the 2018 P-Series 1080p scaling 9.0 "1080p content such as Blu-rays look good. The image remains clear and sharp." The same 1080p rating as the Samsung 8500 / Q8fn / Q9fn, Sony X900F and LG C8.
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post #2115 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 05:37 PM
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And yes that extra amount does actually matter in gaming, as I did have to adjust a little bit to the 2018 TCL being a little more input lag than the TCL 2017 model at 14.2 ms. So I definitely wouldn't want to regress any further on the input lag given that 4K HDR gaming is probably my primary use on the TV.
Are you seriously trying to suggest that you noticed and then "adjusted" to the difference of 5ms input lag?

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post #2116 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 05:46 PM
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Yeah I think the input lag is pretty good, definitely better than last years model. Overall the TV seems pretty solid, the real question now though is should we wait and spend another thousand for the PQ65, and would it be worth it... back to waiting for another review!
I've already committed to waiting until the holiday sales so I can have as much info as possible and also get close to the best price I can. At this point my purchase will be either the PQ65, P65 or 65x900f. Q8 and Q9 are out for me because they aren't carried by costco.ca....but I may consider a 65" LG C8 if the price is compelling enough.

As for the Vizio P and P-Quantum.....I think if the P received an 8.2...to me at least, that makes me optimistic that the P-Quantum may rate closer to the Q9 than people initially thought.
Just going off the 2017 OLED prices, the 2018's will be very compelling, price wise by the holidays. If the Vizio stays at $1199 for the 65, I'd say the C8 will be probably be within $800-$900. The 65" C8 has already been as low as $2299, so the holidays are looking good!

I'm hoping the PQ is a homerun for Vizio. It's definitely got the potential to shake things up!
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post #2117 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 05:59 PM
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Anybody have experience with the Vizio P using a PC or Nvidia Shield to upscale video to 4k? Seems this could be work around for poor upscaling? I use Windows Media center and Hd Homerun with my HTPC to watch Cable/OTA.
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Just going off the 2017 OLED prices, the 2018's will be very compelling, price wise by the holidays. If the Vizio stays at $1199 for the 65, I'd say the C8 will be probably be within $800-$900. The 65" C8 has already been as low as $2299, so the holidays are looking good!

I'm hoping the PQ is a homerun for Vizio. It's definitely got the potential to shake things up!
Maybe you havent seen this yet:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/perm...rn-in-lcd-oled

No way would I ever consider dropping that kind of coin on that.
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post #2119 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 06:12 PM
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Disappointed in the lower gradient score for the P series - rtings review. The 2018 M scored ‘8.5’. Still considering 900f because of this.
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post #2120 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 06:13 PM
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For those with gaming concerns, I have gamed extensively on both HDMI 1 (with HDR on) and HDMI 5 (for my non-4K A/V receiver) and have had absolutely no issues with input lag on the 55" P series. I would say it's definitely comparable to the TCL.

I'm by no means a pro gamer, but I play competitive games on the TV at least once a day (first and third-person games) and, with the game mode on, this TV has no issues.

I had similar concerns coming from the TCL. Thankfully they seemed to be overblown for this year's model.

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post #2121 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 06:35 PM
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How do you do both inputs? An HDMI duplexer?

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post #2122 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 06:40 PM
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Anybody have experience with the Vizio P using a PC or Nvidia Shield to upscale video to 4k? Seems this could be work around for poor upscaling? I use Windows Media center and Hd Homerun with my HTPC to watch Cable/OTA.
I use my Apple TV 4K and watch DirecTV Now for my channels and have the Apple TV set to upscale the 720p stream to 4K and it looks great.

I also use my OTA to get the local channels and the TV native upscaling seems pretty good to me. Sure it isn't amazing but I feel it is plenty good. My 1080p 50 inch Panasonic plasma looks worse than this TV in my opinion

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post #2123 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SRVisGod24 View Post
Just going off the 2017 OLED prices, the 2018's will be very compelling, price wise by the holidays. If the Vizio stays at $1199 for the 65, I'd say the C8 will be probably be within $800-$900. The 65" C8 has already been as low as $2299, so the holidays are looking good!

I'm hoping the PQ is a homerun for Vizio. It's definitely got the potential to shake things up!
Maybe you havent seen this yet:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/perm...rn-in-lcd-oled

No way would I ever consider dropping that kind of coin on that.
I just got a 55" B7A last week. Went through two 55" TCL 6 Series TV's. Terrible banding. And the DSE got annoying. The P Series was definitely a thought, but Best Buy didn't lower the price until after I bought the B7
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post #2124 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 07:05 PM
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Question with issue I am having with AppleTV. I am playing HD movie thru iTunes and the Vizio is say 2160. The thing is its a regular HD movie, The original Arthur. I have the settings on the Apple TV to match frame rate and and Dynamic Range set to on. I have no issues with Directv, it shows when its 720 or 1080 so I know its probably the AppleTV. Anyone else have a similar set up that can check?
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post #2125 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 07:10 PM
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Maybe you havent seen this yet:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/perm...rn-in-lcd-oled

No way would I ever consider dropping that kind of coin on that.

As a long time plasma owner, IR is only an issue if you spend a whole lot of time with a specific static image on your TV for a large majority of the time. OLEDs are much better than plasmas were, and later plasmas were not bad. I still have a 2011 that's seen tons of abuse from an HTPC that has no burn-in of any kind.


D-Nice himself recently went on the record stating that burn-in is pretty much a non-issue for the vast majority of use cases.
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post #2126 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 07:53 PM
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Costco, Sam's, Walmart, Target and B&H have the P75-F, for the P65-F see BestBuy.com and B&H, for the P55-F see BestBuy.com, Target and B&H.
When is Costco getting the P65-F in stock? That's the one I am waiting for and want to purchase from a brick and mortar Costco location.
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post #2127 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 08:12 PM
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As a long time plasma owner, IR is only an issue if you spend a whole lot of time with a specific static image on your TV for a large majority of the time. OLEDs are much better than plasmas were, and later plasmas were not bad. I still have a 2011 that's seen tons of abuse from an HTPC that has no burn-in of any kind.


D-Nice himself recently went on the record stating that burn-in is pretty much a non-issue for the vast majority of use cases.
Not exactly accurate. Many long term plasma owners jumped the oled ship from the lure of contrast ratios that
matched their plasmas. Ive seen many posts and reviews of permanent burn in 4-18 months into ownership. One guy said he used his oled the same exact way and same content as his plasma which had no retention issues after nearly a decade of use but his $4000 oled had burn in just 15 months into identical use. Just do a search. It happens. Ask yourself where are the OLED pc and laptop screens? That should give you a clue..
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post #2128 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 08:29 PM
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Question with issue I am having with AppleTV. I am playing HD movie thru iTunes and the Vizio is say 2160. The thing is its a regular HD movie, The original Arthur. I have the settings on the Apple TV to match frame rate and and Dynamic Range set to on. I have no issues with Directv, it shows when its 720 or 1080 so I know its probably the AppleTV. Anyone else have a similar set up that can check?
If you set the Apple TV to output 4K SDR 60HZ it will upconvert everything that is not that resolution and feed it to the TV as 4K SDR 60HZ. If you want to watch 1080p content or lower at its native resolution select that resolution and when you have match frame rate and dynamic range if the content is 4K HDR or Dolby Vision etc it will display it correctly. I find the Apple TV upscaler to be a little better than the TV.

Since you have an Apple TV 4K could you check something for me? Can you watch Stranger Things Season 2 Episode 6 39 minutes into the episode I keep seeing this like white light flicker every 20 seconds or so. I just put the episode on the TV's native app and don't see it at all. I just wanna make sure I'm not imagining things.



Update:

It looks like the HDMI handshake or something in the settings of the Apple TV 4K wasn't playing nicely with the TV. I switched resolutions a few times and set it back to 4K SDR 60Hz and now Dolby Vision on that episode in that scene is perfect. So much more contrast. I think the TV was displaying DV but it wasn't really enabled because the picture quality is so much better than before. I didn't change my TV settings at all. Strange. I'll have to keep an eye on this

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post #2129 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 08:37 PM
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Looks like YouTube TV is now live in the SmartCast OS.
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post #2130 of 4458 Old 06-19-2018, 08:53 PM
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We should just settle this input lag crap once and for all. Open invitation, Destiny 2 crucible on pc, private server. With my atrocious input lag on hdmi 4 on my 16 P55 I should not even be able to touch you “PROs” with your absolutely god like reflexes. Hell I’ll even record it and take the hit on my end on my crappy 12mb DSL internet. Let’s do it!


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