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-   -   Sony X900F 65" 4K HDR TV: First Look & Review (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2970914-sony-x900f-65-4k-hdr-tv-first-look-review.html)

imagic 04-12-2018 08:26 AM

Sony X900F 65" 4K HDR TV: First Look & Review
 
Yesterday afternoon, a 65" Sony X900F showed up at my doorstep. I'm excited to get this TV up and running given that it promises to deliver high performance video thanks to a FALD backlight array and the X1 Extreme processor, yet is attractively priced at $2199.99.

I plan to unbox today and hope to be gaming on it by this afternoon and watching HDR 4K movies with it by this weekend. In the reviewer's briefing, Sony emphasized how a simple 2-point grayscale calibration should snap the whole TV into accurate color, regardless of source or mode or HDR or SDR, with only a little more accuracy to be gained from a deep-dive calibration. I'll be thrilled if a five-minute tweak really does deliver a properly tuned TV.

Here's the link to the review: https://www.avsforum.com/review-sony...00f-4k-hdr-tv/

Hetfieldjames 04-12-2018 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imagic (Post 56022872)
Yesterday afternoon, a 65" Sony X900F showed up at my doorstep. I'm excited to get this TV up and running given that it promises to deliver high performance video thanks to a FALD backlight array and the X1 Extreme processor, yet is attractively priced at $2199.99.

I plan to unbox today and hope to be gaming on it by this afternoon and watching HDR 4K movies with it by this weekend. In the reviewer's briefing, Sony emphasized how a simple 2-point grayscale calibration should snap the whole TV into accurate color, regardless of source or mode or HDR or SDR, with only a little more accuracy to be gained from a deep-dive calibration. I'll be thrilled if a five-minute tweak really does deliver a properly tuned TV.

More soon...

I will be very interested to hear your review because I have the 900E and love it. I'm blown away by it. HDR looks simply insane. The regular X1 does such a good job I'll be interested to hear your take on the extreme. Have fun with it.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

stratogustav 04-12-2018 09:11 AM

I really want the 85 inches version with the X1 Extreme chip, but it is too expensive. Can someone gift it to me? I would be the happiest :)

rene2kx 04-12-2018 11:40 PM

hdtvtest's video showed the PQ and blooming was only a little better than the 900e and still weaker than the 930e, the motion with x motion clarity enabled is good. overall this tv only has subtle improvements over the 900e, it's not some big difference.

imagic 04-13-2018 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rene2kx (Post 56027606)
hdtvtest's video showed the PQ and blooming was only a little better than the 900e and still weaker than the 930e, the motion with x motion clarity enabled is good. overall this tv only has subtle improvements over the 900e, it's not some big difference.

From now on, I plan to leave the number-crunching and measured performance comparisons to rtings and other sites. I'll take the key measurements I need and move on and leave the drill-down stuff to folks who are compiling databases to begin with. I am not.

A specification war between TVs is boring to me at this point, just as it became boring to me as a photographer. And the debates that branch off from that stuff (pattern-gazing, etc.) are comical because they are proof that even an infinite number of TV channels and streaming options won't cure boredom.

To me, the more interesting question is, how does everything come together (price, ergonomics, OS, PQ, aesthetics) and what usage scenarios does that apply to.

Anyhow thank you for your take on it. I recently sent back a X930E (that I did not wind up reviewing) and did think it was a good performer for an edgelit set. But I do not have it anymore for a side-by-side, oh well.

rene2kx 04-13-2018 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imagic (Post 56028178)
From now on, I plan to leave the number-crunching and measured performance comparisons to rtings and other sites. I'll take the key measurements I need and move on and leave the drill-down stuff to folks who are compiling databases to begin with. I am not.

A specification war between TVs is boring to me at this point, just as it became boring to me as a photographer. And the debates that branch off from that stuff (pattern-gazing, etc.) are comical because they are proof that even an infinite number of TV channels and streaming options won't cure boredom.

To me, the more interesting question is, how does everything come together (price, ergonomics, OS, PQ, aesthetics) and what usage scenarios does that apply to.

Anyhow thank you for your take on it. I recently sent back a X930E (that I did not wind up reviewing) and did think it was a good performer for an edgelit set. But I do not have it anymore for a side-by-side, oh well.

no the video i was talking about was not number crunching , it was a sbs video comparison of the x900e, x900f, x930e.

The conclusion you'd draw from vincent's video and commentary is that the x930e has the more punchier blacks and less blooming among all 3. the x900e looks the weakest, the x900f is somewhere in between, better than the 900e. the x900f has motion in its favor with the x motion clarity feature, BFI works with less flicker and almost no luminance hit.

Let's hear out your impressions too.

mpgxsvcd 04-13-2018 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imagic (Post 56022872)
Yesterday afternoon, a 65" Sony X900F showed up at my doorstep. I'm excited to get this TV up and running given that it promises to deliver high performance video thanks to a FALD backlight array and the X1 Extreme processor, yet is attractively priced at $2199.99.

I plan to unbox today and hope to be gaming on it by this afternoon and watching HDR 4K movies with it by this weekend. In the reviewer's briefing, Sony emphasized how a simple 2-point grayscale calibration should snap the whole TV into accurate color, regardless of source or mode or HDR or SDR, with only a little more accuracy to be gained from a deep-dive calibration. I'll be thrilled if a five-minute tweak really does deliver a properly tuned TV.

More soon...

Is proper HDR gaming with a Windows PC feasible yet? I am also interested in how the TV performs for 1080p @ 120 FPS gaming. Can it do HDR gaming with low input lag? Also is 4:4:4 HDR gaming possible with it? If so what resolutions and frame rates?

imagic 04-13-2018 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rene2kx (Post 56028786)
no the video i was talking about was not number crunching , it was a sbs video comparison of the x900e, x900f, x930e.
https://youtu.be/t0GzpKxakZM

The conclusion you'd draw from vincent's video and commentary is that the x930e has the more punchier blacks and less blooming among all 3. the x900e looks the weakest, the x900f is somewhere in between, better than the 900e. the x900f has motion in its favor with the x motion clarity feature, BFI works with less flicker and almost no luminance hit.

Let's hear out your impressions too.

Well, I'm not gonna have those 3 TVs all together to compare, so making a "comparative review" is just not possible for me either. I've come to terms with the fact I can only really present a stand-alone subjective review with some measurement-related insights.

Main thing I'm looking for is that Sony's promise of a simple 2-point grayscale calibration working for all inputs and all modes. From there, I basically just care about the subjective experience when watching movies, sports, and playing video games. I'm happy to let the other guys do the geek-oriented deep dives from now on, is all I was saying.

imagic 04-13-2018 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd (Post 56028826)
Is proper HDR gaming with a Windows PC feasible yet? I am also interested in how the TV performs for 1080p @ 120 FPS gaming. Can it do HDR gaming with low input lag? Also is 4:4:4 HDR gaming possible with it? If so what resolutions and frame rates?

How suitable it is for gaming, be it SDR or HDR, PC or console, is an area I plan to pay more attention to.

chrislax19 04-13-2018 07:52 AM

Looking forward to your review! It is a shame they did not send you the 85" 900f.

I am in the process of researching tv's, and my decision will likely be between the 75"Z9d and 85" 900f.

UltimateDisplay 04-13-2018 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd (Post 56028826)
Is proper HDR gaming with a Windows PC feasible yet?

from what I heard, the problems of HDR PC gaming come from not your display, but from a slew of still unresolved issues with Windows 10 HDR + HDR support in PC games + possibly Nvidia/AMD drivers ...

console HDR game experience is much easier in that regard


but aside from HDR, 900F should support [email protected] ( @imagic can you test also if it does [email protected]@4:4:4 properly) with lag of about ~20-23ms (not sure about specifically [email protected] PC mode lag .. is it even possible to measure that atm ?)

Sanookdi 04-13-2018 08:09 AM

Looking forward to your views. The value proposition on the 900F is pretty amazing, especially with the 85"!

rlindo 04-13-2018 08:10 AM

I can only speak for the Destiny 2 pc trial but it was perfectly fine running it in hdr on both my Panny CX850 and the 900E I borrowed using my 1080Ti. Just had to go into the nvidia control panel and set it to 4:2:2 and 10 bits. Don't even think i had to first turn hdr on in the windows display menu but maybe I did.

I hope other hdr pc games I plan to get work the same way and won't give issues.

imagic 04-18-2018 08:00 AM

The X900F is up and running as of last night. Should have something to discuss, when it comes to using it, by tonight.

Hetfieldjames 04-18-2018 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imagic (Post 56055434)
The X900F is up and running as of last night. Should have something to discuss, when it comes to using it, by tonight.

Can't wait for what you have to say. I have the 900E and absolutely love it.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

lifeis11 04-18-2018 01:04 PM

im getting very close to pulling the trigger on an 85, curious to how you like the 65 for sure

MCaugusto 04-18-2018 01:15 PM

All i could think after seeing that comparison video from HDTVtest.com & Vincent Theo is WOW, an edge lit LCD VA type panel that has noticeably better control over blooming/haloings than FALD systems from the same highly regarded Sony manufacturer; That was truly eye-opening.

I wondered sometimes why are there posters at AVS currently still looking to purchase the 930e instead of the brand-new 900F and now i have a better understand why.

Very, very interesting comparison video and lesson learned : do not be so dismissive of a very well designed LED edge-lit panel !

audeophyle 04-18-2018 02:17 PM

Following! My 85" X900F is on the way. :D

Hetfieldjames 04-18-2018 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audeophyle (Post 56057740)
Following! My 85" X900F is on the way. :D

Oh my God am I jealous! I have the 55X900E. Your gonna love the F definitely.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

VA_DaveB 04-18-2018 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCaugusto (Post 56057384)
Very, very interesting comparison video and lesson learned : do not be so dismissive of a very well designed LED edge-lit panel !

It seems that the 930E is the ONE AND ONLY well designed edge-lit panel. ;)

waltinaz 04-19-2018 05:35 AM

I’ve been set on an LG OLED, then came across this set. How do you all compare this 85-incher to the OLED for sports (particularly sports, so motion handling is VERY important to me) and cable TV/Netflix? 12’ viewing distance, with large windows on one side. Off-axis viewing IS somewhat important, for guest/secondary seating, so I’m very interested in how this set looks >10-15 degrees off center. Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Anderegg 04-19-2018 05:57 AM

I just tried to set my Nvidia GTX1050 to 1080p 120Hz, but it will not show anything above 60Hz as available as reported y my X900F. :-(

HDMI 2 and 3 set to enhanced, running Windows 7.

Paul

VA_DaveB 04-19-2018 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltinaz (Post 56060358)
I’ve been set on an LG OLED, then came across this set. How do you all compare this 85-incher to the OLED for sports (particularly sports, so motion handling is VERY important to me) and cable TV/Netflix? 12’ viewing distance, with large windows on one side. Off-axis viewing IS somewhat important, for guest/secondary seating, so I’m very interested in how this set looks >10-15 degrees off center. Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Like most VA panels, PQ degradation becomes an issue at more like 20 degrees off angle, so 10 to 15 degrees will be fine. The 900F has great motion handling for sports with a very fast response time. As far as reflections go, it will has a pretty decent AR coating as long as light from your large windows doesn't fall directly on the TV. If the "clown feet" are a problem, they can be turned inward instead of outward.

waltinaz 04-19-2018 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VA_DaveB (Post 56060432)
Like most VA panels, PQ degradation becomes an issue at more like 20 degrees off angle, so 10 to 15 degrees will be fine. The 900F has great motion handling for sports with a very fast response time. As far as reflections go, it will has a pretty decent AR coating as long as light from your large windows doesn't fall directly on the TV. If the "clown feet" are a problem, they can be turned inward instead of outward.



Thanks; much appreciated! Clown feet are no issue, as it would be mounted.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hetfieldjames 04-19-2018 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VA_DaveB (Post 56060432)
Like most VA panels, PQ degradation becomes an issue at more like 20 degrees off angle, so 10 to 15 degrees will be fine. The 900F has great motion handling for sports with a very fast response time. As far as reflections go, it will has a pretty decent AR coating as long as light from your large windows doesn't fall directly on the TV. If the "clown feet" are a problem, they can be turned inward instead of outward.

Huh it's weird because I don't find the off center viewing that bad at all on my 900E. I mean I guess I'm pretty much in front but I'm definitely off to the side at times.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

waltinaz 04-19-2018 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames (Post 56060560)
Huh it's weird because I don't find the off center viewing that bad at all on my 900E. I mean I guess I'm pretty much in front but I'm definitely off to the side at times.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk



Let me know when you feel it begins to degrade for you, in a real-world sense, degree-wise (ballpark). Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hetfieldjames 04-19-2018 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltinaz (Post 56061132)
Let me know when you feel it begins to degrade for you, in a real-world sense, degree-wise (ballpark). Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I will do that when I go home today. I'll ldo a test later today for ya.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

waltinaz 04-19-2018 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames (Post 56061154)
I will do that when I go home today. I'll ldo a test later today for ya.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk



Much appreciated!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hetfieldjames 04-19-2018 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltinaz (Post 56061176)
Much appreciated!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok, couple of things. HDR looks absolutely stunning on the 900E. There is no other way to describe it, but stunning. Watched "Sully" 4K HDR I about fainted it looks that good. On to the viewing angle. I have a full motion mount so I am really never affected by issues like this. That being said its not as bad as people make it out to be but it does lose effect when too far off to either side. A limitation of course of the technology. How many degrees I couldn't really tell, but off to the side a bit.
Again HDR looks just amazing. I have contrast at 100, and I know this goes against conventional wisdom but I have "extended dynamic range" on "Low". I just didn't like it high. To my eyes it gave the screen a haze over it especially on black or dark scenes I should say. I have "Black adjust" on "high".

imagic 04-19-2018 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames (Post 56063754)
Ok, couple of things. HDR looks absolutely stunning on the 900E. There is no other way to describe it, but stunning. Watched "Sully" 4K HDR I about fainted it looks that good. On to the viewing angle. I have a full motion mount so I am really never affected by issues like this. That being said its not as bad as people make it out to be but it does lose effect when too far off to either side. A limitation of course of the technology. How many degrees I couldn't really tell, but off to the side a bit.
Again HDR looks just amazing. I have contrast at 100, and I know this goes against conventional wisdom but I have "extended dynamic range" on "Low". I just didn't like it high. To my eyes it gave the screen a haze over it especially on black or dark scenes I should say. I have "Black adjust" on "high".

X900F has a very seductive, rich, contrasty look to it. Measurements notwithstanding, it's a picture I'm very happy with and could live with, full stop, as my primary TV. I don't need to wait to write a review to say that with certainty.


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