TCL 65" 6-Series 4K HDR TV First Look & Review - Page 163 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4861 of 6804 Old 01-25-2019, 06:31 PM
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There's probably no way to quantify this, but how much of a risk really is "playing the panel lottery" when getting the 6-Series? As a possible purchaser, I'm a bit nervous. Are the risks like one lemon in 100? One lemon in 1000? 10,000? And just what does getting a "bad panel" really mean? Just one with things like banding issues? Or something even worse? Just about every UHD TV I have looked at has some kind of banding issue. There are some really good deals out there on the 6-Series right now, so I am curious. Debating the TCL or the Vizio M or P Series, in 65". Want to go Full Array, after the edge-lit disappointment of the Samsung NU8000. I'm somewhat hearing-impaired and on Netflix, the appearance of subtitles on the NU8000 brightened the entire screen...and the screen darkened again when the subtitles went away. UGH.

I'm a big gamer, but also like streaming Netflix, watching Blu-Rays, etc. How is the 6-Series for upconverting DVD's?

For the Xbox One X, I am reading that TCL can display 1440p, though I have always been curious...what is the advantage to playing a game in 1440p? Won't the TV upconvert anyway? What do you gain by playing a game in 1440p? And this talk of random shutoffs is making me nervous too. I had issues with a One X powering off at startup at times, but that was with the Samsung Nu8000 I returned.

Anyway, "on paper", the TCL seems to have everything I want: low input lag, apparently good upconverting, bright display. The 'panel lottery' thing just makes me nervous. Although really, I went through 2 bad Samsungs in a row (including really bad flashing and artifacts with the NU7100 while on some PS4 games), so maybe *every* TV buying experience is somewhat of a lottery?

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post #4862 of 6804 Old 01-25-2019, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD Freaky View Post
There's probably no way to quantify this, but how much of a risk really is "playing the panel lottery" when getting the 6-Series? As a possible purchaser, I'm a bit nervous. Are the risks like one lemon in 100? One lemon in 1000? 10,000? And just what does getting a "bad panel" really mean? Just one with things like banding issues? Or something even worse? Just about every UHD TV I have looked at has some kind of banding issue. There are some really good deals out there on the 6-Series right now, so I am curious. Debating the TCL or the Vizio M or P Series, in 65". Want to go Full Array, after the edge-lit disappointment of the Samsung NU8000. I'm somewhat hearing-impaired and on Netflix, the appearance of subtitles on the NU8000 brightened the entire screen...and the screen darkened again when the subtitles went away. UGH.



I'm a big gamer, but also like streaming Netflix, watching Blu-Rays, etc. How is the 6-Series for upconverting DVD's?



For the Xbox One X, I am reading that TCL can display 1440p, though I have always been curious...what is the advantage to playing a game in 1440p? Won't the TV upconvert anyway? What do you gain by playing a game in 1440p? And this talk of random shutoffs is making me nervous too. I had issues with a One X powering off at startup at times, but that was with the Samsung Nu8000 I returned.



Anyway, "on paper", the TCL seems to have everything I want: low input lag, apparently good upconverting, bright display. The 'panel lottery' thing just makes me nervous. Although really, I went through 2 bad Samsungs in a row (including really bad flashing and artifacts with the NU7100 while on some PS4 games), so maybe *every* TV buying experience is somewhat of a lottery?


I miss the days where l went into Circuit City and l walked out with a 27” Trinitron and was happy when l got home and started watching everything.

I debated between the Vizio M and the TCL R for my parents. Got the R and have been truly amazed by its performance. At this price point, and possibly above it, it’s all a panel lottery it seems. Take the leap, l did and got a good panel l’m happy with. The more you look for flaws, the more you become obsessed with them and it is truly a never ending cycle. Barring a defective unit, l think you’d be happy with either the Vizio P series or the TCL R.


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post #4863 of 6804 Old 01-25-2019, 10:17 PM
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I miss the days where l went into Circuit City and l walked out with a 27” Trinitron and was happy when l got home and started watching everything.

I debated between the Vizio M and the TCL R for my parents. Got the R and have been truly amazed by its performance. At this price point, and possibly above it, it’s all a panel lottery it seems. Take the leap, l did and got a good panel l’m happy with. The more you look for flaws, the more you become obsessed with them and it is truly a never ending cycle. Barring a defective unit, l think you’d be happy with either the Vizio P series or the TCL R.


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Thanks. I do look for issues, true, but I only return a TV if it's something I can't live with. Seeing the screen flash green artifacts while playing a PS4 game on the Samsung NU7100 was a dealbreaker. I didn't know how bad the edge-lit panel of the 8000 was. Some issues, unfortunately, you can only experience once the new TV is in your living room. Every panel looks great on the showroom floor, and you can't imagine what could go wrong while you're walking out the door with it. Buying a new TV is a bit like going out on a great first date. What follows after...ain't always so great.

I agree with your Trinitron comment...things were so much simpler then. I do remember, about 12 years ago though, the "mura effect" was the big deal with LCD TV's...you were lucky if you got a TV without white puffy clouds everywhere, during dark scenes. That became a bit of an obsession. Just want a TV that looks good that won't do weird things I'm not expecting, while trying to enjoy content or play a game.

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post #4864 of 6804 Old 01-25-2019, 11:06 PM
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Thanks. I do look for issues, true, but I only return a TV if it's something I can't live with. Seeing the screen flash green artifacts while playing a PS4 game on the Samsung NU7100 was a dealbreaker. I didn't know how bad the edge-lit panel of the 8000 was. Some issues, unfortunately, you can only experience once the new TV is in your living room. Every panel looks great on the showroom floor, and you can't imagine what could go wrong while you're walking out the door with it. Buying a new TV is a bit like going out on a great first date. What follows after...ain't always so great.

I agree with your Trinitron comment...things were so much simpler then. I do remember, about 12 years ago though, the "mura effect" was the big deal with LCD TV's...you were lucky if you got a TV without white puffy clouds everywhere, during dark scenes. That became a bit of an obsession. Just want a TV that looks good that won't do weird things I'm not expecting, while trying to enjoy content or play a game.
If you’re wanting to save money I think the TCL is worth the gamble. I have both a 55” R617 and a 75” 900F. The TCL arrived in perfect condition with minimal DSE and I haven’t seen any banding on mine. My 900F arrived damaged twice in a row and the third one, although not perfect, it has issues I can live with. Some dark grey spots beneath the screen somehow in the lower left side not visible unless I’m closer than 3-5 feet and I have to look for them.

People have asked me to compare but to me it’s simple. The TCL is every bit as good for the money you save. Unless you are a enthusiast who is picky about everything. I’m an enthusiast but not overly picky. It compliments my bedroom nicely and looks 90% as good as my Sony to me.

Can’t comment on the Vizio.
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post #4865 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 05:52 AM
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Well, Best Buy delivered my 65" TCL R615 on Wednesday, and I've been very happy with it. For two days. Last night, the video started dropping out, then would switch to a white, red, then green color. Then the image would freeze.

I made sure the firmware was up to date, tried different inputs, and performed a factory reset. No change. I'll be calling Best Buy today, and hope I can get a replacement.
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post #4866 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 09:48 AM
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Well, Best Buy delivered my 65" TCL R615 on Wednesday, and I've been very happy with it. For two days. Last night, the video started dropping out, then would switch to a white, red, then green color. Then the image would freeze.

I made sure the firmware was up to date, tried different inputs, and performed a factory reset. No change. I'll be calling Best Buy today, and hope I can get a replacement.
you never mentioned what you were doing with the tv when this happened or what gear you have connected to it. can you list that if it was in the chain at the time of the issue. what i mean is, were you streaming from the Roku apps or where you in-putting video from one of the hdmi inputs and if so, what was the source?

also, did simply turning the tv off then on (or turn it off and unplug then re-plug the power and turn it back on)resolve it or did it happen just once and you figured well it's time to take it back?

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post #4867 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 09:52 AM
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you never mentioned what you were doing with the tv when this happened or what gear you have connected to it. can you list that if it was in the chain at the time of the issue. what i mean is, were you streaming from the Roku apps or where you in-putting video from one of the hdmi inputs and if so, what was the source?

also, did simply turning the tv off then on (or turn it off and unplug then re-plug the power and turn it back on)resolve it or did it happen just once and you figured well it's time to take it back?

I was playing a disc on my bluray player attached directly to HDMI 1 on the TV. I also connected to HDMI 2, and saw the same effect. I tried streaming from Roku apps, and also watching live TV using the antenna input. They all have video blackouts of some kind. Even just navigating the inputs/settings interface has regular video blackouts.

I did turn the TV off and back on again. I also unplugged and replugged the power cord. It still has the video blackouts.

It's interesting, watching a program, and the picture starts to pixelate, then just blanks. Sometime the picture returns, but frozen, like it's displaying a stuck frame buffer.

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post #4868 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 11:10 AM
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sounds like return time. sorry buddy. and as long as your in the return period, they will exchange or refund you at BB no problem. keep us posted.

oh, is your player a UHD or HD Blu-ray player and which type of disc were you watching UHD or HD Blu?

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Originally Posted by DVD Freaky View Post
There's probably no way to quantify this, but how much of a risk really is "playing the panel lottery" when getting the 6-Series?
As @lucacow mentioned, its all a panel lottery. I have had amazingly great luck with tons of flat panels over the years, even a boatload of gaming laptops. I never lost the panel lottery yet. And in the past 20 years, I have had at least 10 flat panels, maybe 3-4 PC monitors, and like 6 laptops, say since 1995. But, since this is absolutely a thing, you did the right thing buying from a reputable and exchange-friendly store like BB.

I am more likely than not going to snag an R615 or R617, leaning toward the BB model for the price savings. But I also figured out that if I wait for Buydig to get them back in stock, I can save the sales tax and pay less overall than the Best Buy model while getting the R617. Not that I care about the voice remote, since everything I have is Alexa controlled through my Harmony Hub anyway. Also, if you are concerned about the panel lottery, as you should be, then I suggest setting a price point, over which you will snag a Square Trade warranty.

When I bought my 75" Sony Bravia 2 years ago, I knew that was a sizable investment. So I used my Costco membership and got the 5 year warranty dirt cheap. Oh and Pro tip: Never buy Square Trade from their site or Amazon. If you are a Costco member, you pay pennies on the dollar and get extra years on the purchase, even more if you happen to buy the set from Costco! But I bought a 43" Roku TV (this one a Sharp) as a PC monitor, sitting on my desk. It was back last summer, and was on sale for $250.00. At that price, if the friggin' thing dies after the warranty is up, so be it. So no extended warranty. But maybe if buying a set where you know there are known issues, like the TCL, it may be be worth considering a Square Trade warranty even on a lower price point. With all I am hearing about the shut offs and other issues, I will probably get a warranty through Costco, just in case.

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Well, Best Buy delivered my 65" TCL R615 on Wednesday, and I've been very happy with it. For two days. Last night, the video started dropping out, then would switch to a white, red, then green color. Then the image would freeze.

I made sure the firmware was up to date, tried different inputs, and performed a factory reset. No change. I'll be calling Best Buy today, and hope I can get a replacement.

Best Buy has either a 2 week or one month return period, which is why I always save the box. You can get a refund or an exchange. For me, its easy. I live in Brooklyn and there are three Best Buy's all within 5 miles of my house, and one about a mile away. If you don't live near a BB, then you have to work it out with customer care for exchanges, but I have heard that they are very good about it.
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post #4870 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 12:33 PM
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I contacted Best Buy today, and they are replacing the TV with another. They were very helpful over the phone.


Thanks to everyone for their help in this.
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sounds like return time. sorry buddy. and as long as your in the return period, they will exchange or refund you at BB no problem. keep us posted.

oh, is your player a UHD or HD Blu-ray player and which type of disc were you watching UHD or HD Blu?

My Blu-ray player is an old Sony HD unit. The disc was a, um, ah, DVD.
I was actually impressed at how good the TV handled displaying it.


Best Buy is exchanging the TV.
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post #4872 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 01:18 PM
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I also want to thank gosawx for reaching out with a pm, and an offer to help. I attempted to reply via pm, but my post count is too low.
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post #4873 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 01:45 PM
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I also want to thank gosawx for reaching out with a pm, and an offer to help. I attempted to reply via pm, but my post count is too low.
How many posts do you need?

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post #4874 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 01:49 PM
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How many posts do you need?

Eight more after this one, but I see you have a few posts to spare.
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Eight more after this one, but I see you have a few posts to spare.
Well, we took care of one. I'd happily give some of mine to you IF it were allowed Now how to get the rest...

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I've had my 65R617 for a few days now. I started out with the 5-Series (Costco) because it was on the lower end of my budget, but when the price dropped on the 6-Series a week ago I couldn't resist buying it (Walmart). I did a side by side comparison of the two and while the 5 is nice, the 6 blows it away. I did, however, give in to temptation and ran some banding tests. I have them, along with the vignette in the corners. The vignette doesn't bother me too much but the banding, while not awful, is visible when watching something like hockey. So after reading through the forum, I have some questions.

There have been some of you who said that initially you had banding issues, but over time they went away. Is this still the case, or did they return? Some of you have also mentioned "massaging" the screen to correct banding and/or vignette issues. What's the consensus on this? My set was manufactured in May 2018 - anyone else have a set manufactured in May? And if so, what were your results?

Walmart has a 90 day return policy so I'm tempted to wait it out and see if the problem(s) correct themselves after a break in period.

Thanks in advance for any guidance!
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post #4877 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 04:49 PM
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I've had my 65R617 for a few days now. I started out with the 5-Series (Costco) because it was on the lower end of my budget, but when the price dropped on the 6-Series a week ago I couldn't resist buying it (Walmart). I did a side by side comparison of the two and while the 5 is nice, the 6 blows it away. I did, however, give in to temptation and ran some banding tests. I have them, along with the vignette in the corners. The vignette doesn't bother me too much but the banding, while not awful, is visible when watching something like hockey. So after reading through the forum, I have some questions.

There have been some of you who said that initially you had banding issues, but over time they went away. Is this still the case, or did they return? Some of you have also mentioned "massaging" the screen to correct banding and/or vignette issues. What's the consensus on this? My set was manufactured in May 2018 - anyone else have a set manufactured in May? And if so, what were your results?

Walmart has a 90 day return policy so I'm tempted to wait it out and see if the problem(s) correct themselves after a break in period.

Thanks in advance for any guidance!
so i'm trying to picture you or anyone "massaging" their screen, i mean, really. please tell me your not considering doing that and if you do, please make a video and post it.
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post #4878 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 04:50 PM
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I've had my 65R617 for a few days now. I started out with the 5-Series (Costco) because it was on the lower end of my budget, but when the price dropped on the 6-Series a week ago I couldn't resist buying it (Walmart). I did a side by side comparison of the two and while the 5 is nice, the 6 blows it away. I did, however, give in to temptation and ran some banding tests. I have them, along with the vignette in the corners. The vignette doesn't bother me too much but the banding, while not awful, is visible when watching something like hockey. So after reading through the forum, I have some questions.

There have been some of you who said that initially you had banding issues, but over time they went away. Is this still the case, or did they return? Some of you have also mentioned "massaging" the screen to correct banding and/or vignette issues. What's the consensus on this? My set was manufactured in May 2018 - anyone else have a set manufactured in May? And if so, what were your results?

Walmart has a 90 day return policy so I'm tempted to wait it out and see if the problem(s) correct themselves after a break in period.

Thanks in advance for any guidance!
The vignetting issue is not really a defect and more of a design issue as this will be on all the sets - this is common on lower/mid level FALD televisions and is a result of the LEDs not being able to cover the extreme corners of the screen.

As for the banding it's doubtful this issue will go away or that massaging the panel will have any long term effect. It's up to you if you can live with the banding and it certainly won't hurt to wait. If you watch golf or hockey regularly then I think I know what decision you'll come to. Unfortunately I returned a 55R615 unit for banding issues.
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post #4879 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 05:54 PM
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If you’re wanting to save money I think the TCL is worth the gamble. I have both a 55” R617 and a 75” 900F. The TCL arrived in perfect condition with minimal DSE and I haven’t seen any banding on mine. My 900F arrived damaged twice in a row and the third one, although not perfect, it has issues I can live with. Some dark grey spots beneath the screen somehow in the lower left side not visible unless I’m closer than 3-5 feet and I have to look for them.

People have asked me to compare but to me it’s simple. The TCL is every bit as good for the money you save. Unless you are a enthusiast who is picky about everything. I’m an enthusiast but not overly picky. It compliments my bedroom nicely and looks 90% as good as my Sony to me.

Can’t comment on the Vizio.
For the money, if I could get a TCL that works well and doesn't have major issues, I'd consider that a huge win. After my negative experiences back-to-back with Samsung panels, it was an eye opener that really, any of these TV's can be affected by the panel lottery. You just have to get lucky, which sadly I haven't been able to, so far.

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As @lucacow mentioned, its all a panel lottery. I have had amazingly great luck with tons of flat panels over the years, even a boatload of gaming laptops. I never lost the panel lottery yet. And in the past 20 years, I have had at least 10 flat panels, maybe 3-4 PC monitors, and like 6 laptops, say since 1995. But, since this is absolutely a thing, you did the right thing buying from a reputable and exchange-friendly store like BB.

I am more likely than not going to snag an R615 or R617, leaning toward the BB model for the price savings. But I also figured out that if I wait for Buydig to get them back in stock, I can save the sales tax and pay less overall than the Best Buy model while getting the R617. Not that I care about the voice remote, since everything I have is Alexa controlled through my Harmony Hub anyway. Also, if you are concerned about the panel lottery, as you should be, then I suggest setting a price point, over which you will snag a Square Trade warranty.

When I bought my 75" Sony Bravia 2 years ago, I knew that was a sizable investment. So I used my Costco membership and got the 5 year warranty dirt cheap. Oh and Pro tip: Never buy Square Trade from their site or Amazon. If you are a Costco member, you pay pennies on the dollar and get extra years on the purchase, even more if you happen to buy the set from Costco! But I bought a 43" Roku TV (this one a Sharp) as a PC monitor, sitting on my desk. It was back last summer, and was on sale for $250.00. At that price, if the friggin' thing dies after the warranty is up, so be it. So no extended warranty. But maybe if buying a set where you know there are known issues, like the TCL, it may be be worth considering a Square Trade warranty even on a lower price point. With all I am hearing about the shut offs and other issues, I will probably get a warranty through Costco, just in case.

Best Buy has either a 2 week or one month return period, which is why I always save the box. You can get a refund or an exchange. For me, its easy. I live in Brooklyn and there are three Best Buy's all within 5 miles of my house, and one about a mile away. If you don't live near a BB, then you have to work it out with customer care for exchanges, but I have heard that they are very good about it.
I went to Costco yesterday and was really surprised to find they do NOT carry the TCL 6-series, only the 4 and 5 Series. The Costco website only lists "65" TCL" for a couple of the sets and does not give a model number for all of them, so I went in to find out and they confirmed that they don't carry the 6-series, not even for mail order. I was told they might be getting the 6-series in the future, but not yet.

As for Best Buy, their return restrictions are apparently very easy to get, cause it's happening to me. ONE of the bad Samsung's came from there, so I returned it...and exchanged 2 video games from XBox to PS4, since the One X I got over the holidays had issues. After that, I was told that I "may be refused a return" on my next Best Buy return or exchange. I was shocked. That's all it takes? Maybe it's cause those 3 transactions were within a one-month period? Anyway, I am not sure I want to risk buying my next TV at Best Buy, after these possible return restrictions were put in place for me. Costco has a great return/exchange policy, but it's a shame they don't have the 6-Series yet. Aaaah, decisions, decisions.

Did anyone out there compare the TCL 6-Series to Sony TV's before you made your purchase? Does Sony still use Samsung panels? If so, I don't think I'd be interested. Also, as a big gamer, I believe the input lag of Sony TV's lately has not been very good.

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post #4880 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 06:39 PM
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For the money, if I could get a TCL that works well and doesn't have major issues, I'd consider that a huge win. After my negative experiences back-to-back with Samsung panels, it was an eye opener that really, any of these TV's can be affected by the panel lottery. You just have to get lucky, which sadly I haven't been able to, so far.


I went to Costco yesterday and was really surprised to find they do NOT carry the TCL 6-series. The Costco website only lists "65" TCL" for a couple of the sets and does not give a model number, so I went in to find out and they confirmed that they don't carry the 6-series, not even for mail order. I was told they might be getting the 6-series in the future, but not yet.

As for Best Buy, their return restrictions are apparently very easy to get, cause it's happening to me. ONE of the bad Samsung's came from there, so I returned it...and exchanged 2 video games from XBox to PS4, since the One X I got over the holidays had issues. After that, I was told that I "may be refused a return" on my next Best Buy return or exchange. I was shocked. That's all it takes? Maybe it's cause those 3 transactions were within a one-month period? Anyway, I am not sure I want to risk buying my next TV at Best Buy, after these possible return restrictions were put in place for me. Costco has a great return/exchange policy, but it's a shame they don't have the 6-Series yet. Aaaah, decisions, decisions.

Did anyone out there compare the TCL 6-Series to Sony TV's before you made your purchase? Does Sony still use Samsung panels? If so, I don't think I'd be interested. Also, as a big gamer, I believe the input lag of Sony TV's lately has not been very good.
Yes, you won't be allowed unlimited returns from Best Buy. Also, returns from other retailers will work against you. Best Buy (and I imagine other retailers) work with a service that keeps track of all your returns. How do I know this? I've been down the same rabbit hole. So hopefully your next TV is a keeper.

If you go with Sony you'll probably want the 900F but it doesn't appear Costco carries that model. If you're set on Costco then I would look into the Vizio P/PQ models.
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so i'm trying to picture you or anyone "massaging" their screen, i mean, really. please tell me your not considering doing that and if you do, please make a video and post it.
There are actually some anecdotal posts of panel massage helping gray uniformity. And rtings even showed a demo where they purposely dropped a Q7F to realign the grid. They of course cautioned people not to try it at home but it did work. (and voids the warranty)

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post #4882 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 07:26 PM
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As for Best Buy, their return restrictions are apparently very easy to get, cause it's happening to me. ONE of the bad Samsung's came from there, so I returned it...and exchanged 2 video games from XBox to PS4, since the One X I got over the holidays had issues. After that, I was told that I "may be refused a return" on my next Best Buy return or exchange. I was shocked. That's all it takes? Maybe it's cause those 3 transactions were within a one-month period? Anyway, I am not sure I want to risk buying my next TV at Best Buy, after these possible return restrictions were put in place for me. Costco has a great return/exchange policy, but it's a shame they don't have the 6-Series yet. Aaaah, decisions, decisions.
I would think that Best Buy could refuse a return if you had already made some returns AND if the product you are returning now is NOT defective. I have serious doubts that Best Buy could refuse a return on a product that IS defective. Now there is some risk I suppose that you might consider something "defective" (i.e., some banding on a 5% grey panel) that Best Buy says is in spec, but I don't believe they could refuse to return on a set that, say, doesn't turn on. There is such a thing as the implied warranty of merchantability, and one doesn't lose that protection just because one recently exchanged an XBox for a PS4.
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post #4883 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 07:38 PM
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I don't believe they could refuse to return on a set that, say, doesn't turn on. There is such a thing as the implied warranty of merchantability, and one doesn't lose that protection just because one recently exchanged an XBox for a PS4.
Best Buy uses a company called The Retail Equation and they track your returns not only at Best Buy but many other stores:

Best Buy
CVS
Sephora
Victoria's Secret
J.C. Penney
Home Depot
Burlington
Dick's Sporting Goods
Sports Authority
Loft
and more...

They also share info between stores. So if you have excessive returns at Home Depot, you may be refused a return at Best Buy.

https://www.theretailequation.com/

At their discretion, Best Buy may exchange a defective set but they might not accept a return if TRE has flagged you for return abuse. They also might just send you straight to TCL for warranty coverage. TCL does not automatically exchange sets. They send a tech to your home to attempt repair. In regards to banding, TCL will tell customers that some degree of banding is common to this set and may or may not replace the set. They also tell you that in the event they do allow replacement of the set, the next set might also have banding and you are not allowed multiple replacements.
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post #4884 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 07:50 PM
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At their discretion, Best Buy may exchange a defective set but they might not accept a return if TRE has flagged you for return abuse. They also might just send you straight to TCL for warranty coverage and exchange.
I understand the concept and "rules," but assuming one is not a serial abuser, and one talks politely to a manager at Best Buy and explains the situation, I would think one would have success in persuading a manager to accept return of a defective set. The policy is in place for a purpose (to catch abusers and to make people think twice about numerous returns), but I think most decent shops want to keep their good customers happy. And I think a manager would look differently on a person previously returning products for refunds, and a person previously returning a product for an exchange with another product. And again, politeness and a reasonable position go a long way.

So I'm not saying there is no risk in having an issue if you have been "flagged"; I'm just saying that if I wanted to get a TCL 6 series at Best Buy, I wouldn't be overly concerned that if I got a defective set (say the panel was cracked) that BB wouldn't take it back because a few weeks earlier I exchanged a Harmony remote for a GE remote, and I returned some light bulbs to Home Depot.
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post #4885 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wavsine View Post
Best Buy uses a company called The Retail Equation and they track your returns not only at Best Buy but many other stores:

Best Buy
CVS
Sephora
Victoria's Secret
J.C. Penney
Home Depot
Burlington
Dick's Sporting Goods
Sports Authority
Loft
and more...

They also share info between stores. So if you have excessive returns at Home Depot, you may be refused a return at Best Buy.

https://www.theretailequation.com/

At their discretion, Best Buy may exchange a defective set but they might not accept a return if TRE has flagged you for return abuse. They also might just send you straight to TCL for warranty coverage. TCL does not automatically exchange sets. They send a tech to your home to attempt repair. In regards to banding, TCL will tell customers that some degree of banding is common to this set and may or may not replace the set. They also tell you that in the event they do allow replacement of the set, the next set might also have banding and you are not allowed multiple replacements.
I'm not sure if Amazon uses TRE but if they don't then they probably have their own in house tracker. I know managers want happy customers but they all have their threshold and if a defect is in a gray area such such as banding then I would personally be worried that BB would direct me to warranty coverage for relief. My guess is DVD Freaky would be allowed one more exchange/return with BB. The "may" part of the flag is probably referring to manager discretion.

I don't know if BB has changed their policy but I was informed that in 90 days the flag would be lifted so you could just wait it out and have no worries about returning another product.
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Yes, you won't be allowed unlimited returns from Best Buy. Also, returns from other retailers will work against you. Best Buy (and I imagine other retailers) work with a service that keeps track of all your returns. How do I know this? I've been down the same rabbit hole. So hopefully your next TV is a keeper.

If you go with Sony you'll probably want the 900F but it doesn't appear Costco carries that model. If you're set on Costco then I would look into the Vizio P/PQ models.
That is REALLY interesting, about all your returns at stores being tracked en masse. I had always just assumed you were just tracked, store to store. I guess that explains it. When I got my One X for the holidays, I bought a bunch of X games at Gamestop. I exchanged them all (unopened) for their PS4 counterparts after the X was returned for powering off randomly right at startup. Really sad, btw, cause I love Game Pass and the games looked great.

I will definitely look into the Vizio, but the rtings comments about the poor upscaling trouble me. Also, input lag in the 30's seems a bit high, no? The Samsungs I tried out were in the teens. Do ya'll think the Quantum is worth it, over the M or P Series?

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I'm not sure if Amazon uses TRE but if they don't then they probably have their own in house tracker. I know managers want happy customers but they all have their threshold and if a defect is in a gray area such such as banding then I would personally be worried that BB would direct me to warranty coverage for relief. My guess is DVD Freaky would be allowed one more exchange/return with BB. The "may" part of the flag is probably referring to manager discretion.

I don't know if BB has changed their policy but I was informed that in 90 days the flag would be lifted so you could just wait it out and have no worries about returning another product.
Yeah, that is what is worrying me. I doubt I'd get a panel that is just flat out "defective". But yeah, if I see horrible banding or DSE, I'd be returning it. I just don't want to risk having a hard time after I've already shown up with the TV for a return. Of course, I would hope I get a really good panel but....who knows.

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I would think that Best Buy could refuse a return if you had already made some returns AND if the product you are returning now is NOT defective. I have serious doubts that Best Buy could refuse a return on a product that IS defective. Now there is some risk I suppose that you might consider something "defective" (i.e., some banding on a 5% grey panel) that Best Buy says is in spec, but I don't believe they could refuse to return on a set that, say, doesn't turn on. There is such a thing as the implied warranty of merchantability, and one doesn't lose that protection just because one recently exchanged an XBox for a PS4.
I think it would probably vary, depending on what manager you deal with. I find that every BB is different. One manager at a BB might give me a hard time about an exchange...I drive 5 miles and the next manager is like, 'no big deal'. Luck of the draw, I guess. But getting that warning from TRE definitely makes me think twice about making my next TV purchase at BB.

OT here, but is anyone else having issues with the $50 Survey contest not working on avsforum? I started the survey and it lasted ONE question and was abruptly over...no mention at all at the end of being eligible or choosing to be eligible for the $50 gift card.

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I'm not sure if Amazon uses TRE but if they don't then they probably have their own in house tracker.
Amazon tracks returns internally. They will lifetime ban serial return abuse. There was a story in the news recently. Opening a new account won't circumvent the ban as they have multiple ways of tracking by ip/credit card/address etc.
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post #4888 of 6804 Old 01-26-2019, 11:52 PM
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Yes I'm kinda almost ban from Best Buy for returning multiple Vizio TV's. They said they will allowed to accept this last one but the next one won't be accepted and I could get ban from that. It's sad because most of the returns I did wasn't petty small stuff but major things like crack on the screen, terrible chemical odor, bunch of dead pixels and bad FALD zones that appears all over the screen. If they want less returns of products nowadays they shouldn't punish us but actually make the products good like how they were made back in the days. You don't even see a quality control sticker at the back of product with someone initials on it showing that it was check before shipped out.


This is why I hate buying new crap and stick to what I have until it for real breaks down (which is pretty quick nowadays) because it's such a pain in the ass to shop for anything now.
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post #4889 of 6804 Old 01-27-2019, 06:33 AM
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I've had my 65R617 for a few days now. I started out with the 5-Series (Costco) because it was on the lower end of my budget, but when the price dropped on the 6-Series a week ago I couldn't resist buying it (Walmart). I did a side by side comparison of the two and while the 5 is nice, the 6 blows it away. I did, however, give in to temptation and ran some banding tests. I have them, along with the vignette in the corners. The vignette doesn't bother me too much but the banding, while not awful, is visible when watching something like hockey. So after reading through the forum, I have some questions.

There have been some of you who said that initially you had banding issues, but over time they went away. Is this still the case, or did they return? Some of you have also mentioned "massaging" the screen to correct banding and/or vignette issues. What's the consensus on this? My set was manufactured in May 2018 - anyone else have a set manufactured in May? And if so, what were your results?

Walmart has a 90 day return policy so I'm tempted to wait it out and see if the problem(s) correct themselves after a break in period.

Thanks in advance for any guidance!
Try turning local dimming off to see if that helps with your vertical banding. Please report back.

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post #4890 of 6804 Old 01-27-2019, 07:50 AM
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I'm not sure if Amazon uses TRE but if they don't then they probably have their own in house tracker. I know managers want happy customers but they all have their threshold and if a defect is in a gray area such such as banding then I would personally be worried that BB would direct me to warranty coverage for relief. My guess is DVD Freaky would be allowed one more exchange/return with BB. The "may" part of the flag is probably referring to manager discretion.

I don't know if BB has changed their policy but I was informed that in 90 days the flag would be lifted so you could just wait it out and have no worries about returning another product.
It also depends on the area with best buy. ive read about people in other parts of the country getting banned from returns for much fewer returns than I have at Best buy. I make a bunch of returns at Best buy. Especially after the holidays. But I'm also in their Elite Plus which gives me 45 day returns since I have been spending over $3500 a year there for the last four years or so. Ever since they started price matching online retailers I have been buying much more stuff from BesBuy.

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