TCL 65" 6-Series 4K HDR TV First Look & Review - Page 195 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5821 of 7016 Old 04-03-2019, 02:10 PM
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Wow!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devedander View Post
I find at every level the action smoothing results in terrible image artifacts like macro blocking and tearing.

I haven't really been able to tell the difference between natural Cinema on and off...


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All I can say is WOW!! To think we have the same tv, but our perception is completely different, is somewhat worrying.
Action smoothing on this set gives me a true soap opera effect. Everything is crystal clear, and the actors feel as if they were here in the same room as me. No artifacts whatsoever. But there's something fake about the scene.
Without this action smoothing my brain or eyes perceive an annoying vibration..strobing, what ever you want to call it.
The natural cinema when turned on takes this "fake" yet clear effect away. This is so hard to explain in words.
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post #5822 of 7016 Old 04-03-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Yes. For Dolby Vision HDR. The internal ROku apps have access to DOlby Vision. Like from Vudu, Netflix, Amazon etc. The Shield TV only does HDR10. And as long as your receiver works with DD+ over the ARC, you will get the same 7.1 DD+ and lossy Atmos audio from the internal apps.

Also the internal YouTube app will give you access to HDR videos which you will not get on the Shield. However for my setup I get much faster speeds using my Shield than the TCL hooked up to the same AiMesh router. The easiest way to test the difference for me was using the "stats for nerds" option in the YouTube app. My main router is a ASUS RT-AC1900P in my office upstairs. My AiMesh router is a RT-AC68U in my basement with LAN connections to all devices. I have 100mb service and with my Shield I am getting almost the full 100 mbps but my TCL only seems to get around 30-40 mbps. When I try to watch YouTube videos with HDR with the internal app I get some buffer issues at times. Netflix, Amazon and VUDU internal apps do not have these issues though.
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post #5823 of 7016 Old 04-03-2019, 08:55 PM
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My 55R617 arrived today and is now on the wall. Will report back after breaking it in for a few hours.
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post #5824 of 7016 Old 04-03-2019, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quovadis123 View Post
All I can say is WOW!! To think we have the same tv, but our perception is completely different, is somewhat worrying.

Action smoothing on this set gives me a true soap opera effect. Everything is crystal clear, and the actors feel as if they were here in the same room as me. No artifacts whatsoever. But there's something fake about the scene.

Without this action smoothing my brain or eyes perceive an annoying vibration..strobing, what ever you want to call it.

The natural cinema when turned on takes this "fake" yet clear effect away. This is so hard to explain in words.


Oh I get the same soap opera effect but anytime there is fast actin like an arm sweeping quickly or a person dashing across the screen there is weird artifacting which often looks like a gif error and it's blocky.

Almost any fight or action scene will have this happen even on low.

I am pretty sensitive to image artifacts so I tend to see these things when lots of people don't really notice.

I've had two 6 series that both did this...

You can't have action smoothing and natural Cinema on together so maybe it's taking it away since you have to turn off action smoothing to have natural Cinema on?


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post #5825 of 7016 Old 04-04-2019, 01:03 AM
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Sound Issue is driving me crazy.
I have had the 65” 6 Series since June of 2018. In NovemberI hooked up a Vizio Sound bar (Vizio SB36512 5.1.2 Dolby Atmos Sound bar) tothe HDMI/ARC input. The only external components I have connected is a CableBox/DVR via the HDMI/ARC, and an antenna. In the past month, when I wouldchange from viewing the cable box to viewing a Roku app (Plex, YouTube,Netflix), the video would change, but the audio from the cable box wouldcontinue playing. If I turn off the cable box, then I would get no audio at all.I needed to switch back and forth between apps or antenna several times beforethe correct audio would play. Over the past couple of days I’ve needed toswitch between the app and antenna 6-7 times before the correct audio willplay. It’s almost like the audio track coming in through the HDMI/ARC isoverpowering the audio from the apps and the TV defaults to playing that audio regardlessof what video is playing. HELP !!!
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post #5826 of 7016 Old 04-04-2019, 04:46 AM
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Whoever said that Amazon HDR is back and ok, is mistaken.
I watched parts of Hanna last night especially episode 7, and it looks the same.
Very poor HDR quality. In fact i'm convinced it's normal HD.
In episode 7 there's a jeep that blows up. The flames and explosion look normal, no hdr.
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post #5827 of 7016 Old 04-04-2019, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devedander View Post
Oh I get the same soap opera effect but anytime there is fast actin like an arm sweeping quickly or a person dashing across the screen there is weird artifacting which often looks like a gif error and it's blocky.

Almost any fight or action scene will have this happen even on low.

I am pretty sensitive to image artifacts so I tend to see these things when lots of people don't really notice.

I've had two 6 series that both did this...

You can't have action smoothing and natural Cinema on together so maybe it's taking it away since you have to turn off action smoothing to have natural Cinema on?


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Never noticed this before..The last series I watched with fast acting stuff is Hanna. She races around the screen and fights like a monkey on steroids, and I see no artifacts with motion set to high...so weird..
If i take action smoothing off, i get vibrations. If i put natural cinema on, I also get vibrations.
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post #5828 of 7016 Old 04-04-2019, 04:56 AM
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Was watching HIGHWAYMEN last night on Netflix. It's supposed to be Dolby Vision. Pretty meh!
Great story, great acting, but not great visually.

If you watch this movie, focus on Kosner and Harrelsons antique car. There is a large metallic grill in front of the vehicle of metal rods vertically juxtaposed.
I often see them vibrating, no matter if action smoothing is set to on or off. Or if natural cinema is set to on or off...no difference
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post #5829 of 7016 Old 04-04-2019, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quovadis123 View Post
All I can say is WOW!! To think we have the same tv, but our perception is completely different, is somewhat worrying.

Action smoothing on this set gives me a true soap opera effect. Everything is crystal clear, and the actors feel as if they were here in the same room as me. No artifacts whatsoever. But there's something fake about the scene.

Without this action smoothing my brain or eyes perceive an annoying vibration..strobing, what ever you want to call it.

The natural cinema when turned on takes this "fake" yet clear effect away. This is so hard to explain in words.
The motion interpolation on the TCL results with garbage around the image with much less action on screen than the Sony TVs. Plus no matter what settings on the TCL it shows the full SOE. While with a Sony you can set it so there are much fewer frames added. Which greatly decreases the SOE.

I can't use Motion Interpolation on the TCL because of the all garbage introduced around the moving images. And because of the strong SOE. I have mine set with Natural Cinema on.

Sent from my Nexus 7(16GB)
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post #5830 of 7016 Old 04-04-2019, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quovadis123 View Post
All I can say is WOW!! To think we have the same tv, but our perception is completely different, is somewhat worrying.
Action smoothing on this set gives me a true soap opera effect. Everything is crystal clear, and the actors feel as if they were here in the same room as me. No artifacts whatsoever. But there's something fake about the scene.
Without this action smoothing my brain or eyes perceive an annoying vibration..strobing, what ever you want to call it.
The natural cinema when turned on takes this "fake" yet clear effect away. This is so hard to explain in words.
I'm with you. Soap opera effect takes me straight out of the story and looks fake. The first thing I did was turn off Action Smoothing after seeing it in action. I didn't see any artifacts, but I also didn't see any strobe effect. I'm still debating Natural Cinema, although I do have it turned on currently. I've seen expert opinions both ways on the net.

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post #5831 of 7016 Old 04-04-2019, 08:33 AM
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... I've seen expert opinions both ways on the net.
Whenever I see split expert opinions on a video setting I interpret it as a personal preference. The only way to pick between personal preferences is to try both options and see which one best suits your own personal preference.
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post #5832 of 7016 Old 04-04-2019, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Gruber View Post
My 55R617 arrived today and is now on the wall. Will report back after breaking it in for a few hours.
I’m sure you’ve read plenty here, but in spite of it, my recommendation to you is to just try and enjoy it, nor run test patterns looking for flaws or imperfections. Try using the tv as it is and for what it is, a thing for entertaining you visually and audibly.

All I read here is people wanting to know what test app to run, what the best settings are, how to change this and how to change that and talk of panel lottery and such. I have yet to see people saying I got the tv, set it up and watching DV on Netflix was xxxx. Or connected my UHD player to it and watching a 4K HDR movie looks xxxxx. Or the streaming ATMOS audio on my 5/7.x.x system sounds xxxxx.

I guess I’m saying other than there is a whole in or a crack on my screen, or it won’t power on or something catastrophically wrong with it, just try and enjoy it rather than shake it down for flaws or battle for perfection.

Just try and enjoy it, that’s what I did, and for the most part, still am. Then get back to us.
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post #5833 of 7016 Old 04-04-2019, 06:37 PM
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A number of apps were updated today, 9 of the apps I have. The important ones for me were:

Netflix
Prime
FXNow
SyFy
NatGeo

All are working just fine too.

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post #5834 of 7016 Old 04-04-2019, 07:19 PM
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Sweet!! I just got my 6 Series downgraded to 8.2.0.4170

Now everything is back to working like it was before. I'm getting DV from my ATV 4K and it's automatcially switching between SDR, HDR10, and DV.
And my ROku is now able to send HDR again. And switch between SDR and HDR10.

ANd my 1080P devices are back to bitstreaming audio. Instead of showing up as a DVI connection and not sending any audio.

No idea if a fix is in the works. I'm waiting to hear back from the ROku person on the ROku forums. I only just sent him a message confirming everything was working again since they downgraded the OS.
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post #5835 of 7016 Old 04-04-2019, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
I’m sure you’ve read plenty here, but in spite of it, my recommendation to you is to just try and enjoy it, nor run test patterns looking for flaws or imperfections. Try using the tv as it is and for what it is, a thing for entertaining you visually and audibly.



All I read here is people wanting to know what test app to run, what the best settings are, how to change this and how to change that and talk of panel lottery and such. I have yet to see people saying I got the tv, set it up and watching DV on Netflix was xxxx. Or connected my UHD player to it and watching a 4K HDR movie looks xxxxx. Or the streaming ATMOS audio on my 5/7.x.x system sounds xxxxx.



I guess I’m saying other than there is a whole in or a crack on my screen, or it won’t power on or something catastrophically wrong with it, just try and enjoy it rather than shake it down for flaws or battle for perfection.



Just try and enjoy it, that’s what I did, and for the most part, still am. Then get back to us.


This is how I ended up finding out about a panel issue a week after my return period that I could not unsee on my last tv.

It's up to you how you want to do it but honestly there is a lot that might not show up in 30 days off normal watching.


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post #5836 of 7016 Old 04-04-2019, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
The motion interpolation on the TCL results with garbage around the image with much less action on screen than the Sony TVs. Plus no matter what settings on the TCL it shows the full SOE. While with a Sony you can set it so there are much fewer frames added. Which greatly decreases the SOE.

I can't use Motion Interpolation on the TCL because of the all garbage introduced around the moving images. And because of the strong SOE. I have mine set with Natural Cinema on.

Sent from my Nexus 7(16GB)


That's what I came up with also.

The vizio p series has 10 steps of blur reduction and judder reduction separate and I loved the effect with just judder at 2... Looked smooth but not take.

Shame the local dimmimng was such garbage on it.


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post #5837 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
I’m sure you’ve read plenty here, but in spite of it, my recommendation to you is to just try and enjoy it, nor run test patterns looking for flaws or imperfections. Try using the tv as it is and for what it is, a thing for entertaining you visually and audibly.

All I read here is people wanting to know what test app to run, what the best settings are, how to change this and how to change that and talk of panel lottery and such. I have yet to see people saying I got the tv, set it up and watching DV on Netflix was xxxx. Or connected my UHD player to it and watching a 4K HDR movie looks xxxxx. Or the streaming ATMOS audio on my 5/7.x.x system sounds xxxxx.

I guess I’m saying other than there is a whole in or a crack on my screen, or it won’t power on or something catastrophically wrong with it, just try and enjoy it rather than shake it down for flaws or battle for perfection.

Just try and enjoy it, that’s what I did, and for the most part, still am. Then get back to us.
I am coming from a completely different perspective than most on this thread. I have seen posts with video of the banding some panels have. Safe to say I won the panel lottery. No banding on my TCL. I came from a 55" TCL S405. A TV that I can honestly say that I loved for what it was. The 55R617 is not night and day better but it is obviously a significant step up in performance. I was at Costco and saw the 4 series and 5 series. You could see the 5 series had a better viewing angle than the 4 series. The 6 series has a better viewing angle than the 4 and 5 series. OLED and FALD panels lose nothing on viewing angles 90 degrees out. But who really cares about viewing angles? I have a telescoping full motion wall mount where I can move the TV around to pretty much any angle.

I do not think there is any really good source material available right now for HDR. It's cool but it seems as if most if not all are poorly implemented. I do not have a 4k UHD but still use blu ray as the default standard to test out a panel. I used to use digital video essentials but with the new panels what video essentials would call correct would be bland and faded by today's high contrast displays.

A lot of settings are personal preference but I disagree with ratings using warm setting and movie setting when tuning the TCL. Video Essentials always said cool in the correct setting because that gets the panel closest to 6500K much easier.

I have watched much of the same programming on Netflix and Amazon Prime as has been listed in this thread. I think it's Highway Man, the Kathy Bates Netflix series. That is just bad CGI green screen garbage and not the display causing people to question or doubt what they are seeing on their TV. A lot of these new films even have CGI and green screen stuff that is not real and how it appears on screen looks fake because it is. I was watching Robert Downey in Sherlock Holmes circa 2009 and the CGI was really bad.

The Batman films with Christian Bale are my favorite blu-ray films to use.

I should note I need to upgrade my Netflix to 4K. I still have my plan on standard HD.

I am using a monoprice 4K HDMI cable.

The 55 R617 is a lot heavier than the 55 S405. The bezel is thicker on the R617.

I am running my TV through the wifi 5ghz band. Having really fast internet connection is very important for streaming.

So far it does look really good. I will go back to testing for a few more days and report back.
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post #5838 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Sweet!! I just got my 6 Series downgraded to 8.2.0.4170

Now everything is back to working like it was before. I'm getting DV from my ATV 4K and it's automatcially switching between SDR, HDR10, and DV.
And my ROku is now able to send HDR again. And switch between SDR and HDR10.

ANd my 1080P devices are back to bitstreaming audio. Instead of showing up as a DVI connection and not sending any audio.

No idea if a fix is in the works. I'm waiting to hear back from the ROku person on the ROku forums. I only just sent him a message confirming everything was working again since they downgraded the OS.
Great! Glad they got you rolled back. Enjoy.
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post #5839 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 06:23 AM
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OLED and FALD panels lose nothing on viewing angles 90 degrees out.
In regards to FALD, the VA panel causes a loss of viewing angle. IPS panels have a good viewing angle but blacks wash out to gray.
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post #5840 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Gruber View Post
I do not think there is any really good source material available right now for HDR. It's cool but it seems as if most if not all are poorly implemented. I do not have a 4k UHD but still use blu ray as the default standard to test out a panel. I used to use digital video essentials but with the new panels what video essentials would call correct would be bland and faded by today's high contrast displays.
If anyone wants source material that can demonstrate what HDR is capable of then YouTube is where to go. Search "HDR" and there are some truly stunning videos.

I do agree that most of HDR/DV material on Amazon, Netflix, Vudu, etc, is less than overwhelming.

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post #5841 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 08:14 AM
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If anyone wants source material that can demonstrate what HDR is capable of then YouTube is where to go. Search "HDR" and there are some truly stunning videos.

I do agree that most of HDR/DV material on Amazon, Netflix, Vudu, etc, is less than overwhelming.
Searching HDR on YouTube will return a lot of titles, but you can get videos that even with HDR in their title are not an HDR source after they were uploaded.

A good YouTube channel to stream HDR source material is THE HDR CHANNEL. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCve...FNipzeAGBI5t9g

For Dolby Vision content there is an app in the Roku store named DOLBY ACCESS. Dolby Vision video source material with DOLBY ATMOS audio for testing purposes.

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post #5842 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 08:49 AM
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Confirmed on multiple android devices that you cannot seem to customize anything in the HDR modes or the Dolby Vision modes via the app. I downloaded the app on my older iPad and the modes are available on there. Weird but if you can get to it via iOS device you should be able to see this.
Does anyone know if it was an OS upgrade that broke this or if an older version of the Roku android app will work?

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post #5843 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 09:43 AM
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I just finished looking at that scene. That entire scene is dark. I do remember it being that way in the Dolby theater too. But I also had no problem seeing the surroundings in that part around 9:12. And there are definitely parts that get very bright later on with the flashlights and muzzle flashes. Both the disc and digital version looked basically the same with the light level.

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So I got ahold of a copy of the HD version of Black Panther and replayed the forest scene. Huge difference. I can se everything in the forest vividly. It looks great. So what is happening here is the TCL is darkening all the Dolby Vision content. I verified this on Live Die Repeat as well on both HD and DV copies

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post #5844 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 10:13 AM
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So I got ahold of a copy of the HD version of Black Panther and replayed the forest scene. Huge difference. I can se everything in the forest vividly. It looks great. So what is happening here is the TCL is darkening all the Dolby Vision content. I verified this on Live Die Repeat as well on both HD and DV copies


Can I ask if your set pushed black into red in the dark scenes of edge of tomorrow in dv?


This bothers me but hasn't seemed to happen on any other movie and didn't seem to happen when I watched in. Hdr10


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post #5845 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Devedander View Post
Can I ask if your set pushed black into red in the dark scenes of edge of tomorrow in dv?

https://youtu.be/fYU7M3RSBbA

This bothers me but hasn't seemed to happen on any other movie and didn't seem to happen when I watched in. Hdr10


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Yes, it did some. Not as bas as yours. Also on the plane before they got dropped off at the target at the end of the movie..looked weird on DV. On HD looks fine.

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post #5846 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael James View Post
Yes, it did some. Not as bas as yours. Also on the plane before they got dropped off at the target at the end of the movie..looked weird on DV. On HD looks fine.


Hmmm interesting... I also saw a lot of it around the edges of the screen when they were in the bunker looking at the maps and planning their attack... Good to know it's not just my set...


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post #5847 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 10:51 AM
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Does anyone know if it was an OS upgrade that broke this or if an older version of the Roku android app will work?
What are you trying to customize via the Roku app? DV and HDR customizing has always been limited regardless of the version of the Roku android app. GAMMA and COLOR TEMP are about it. And you can adjust BRIGHTNESS of TV based on your room lighting situation.

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post #5848 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael James View Post
So I got ahold of a copy of the HD version of Black Panther and replayed the forest scene. Huge difference. I can se everything in the forest vividly. It looks great. So what is happening here is the TCL is darkening all the Dolby Vision content. I verified this on Live Die Repeat as well on both HD and DV copies
It's with the OS9 update. When my TCL got updated to OS9 it was extremely dark. But last night I got rolled back to OS8. And it isn't dark like that any more.

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post #5849 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 11:52 AM
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It's with the OS9 update. When my TCL got updated to OS9 it was extremely dark. But last night I got rolled back to OS8. And it isn't dark like that any more.
How did you roll back to OS 8?
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post #5850 of 7016 Old 04-05-2019, 01:41 PM
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Sweet!! I just got my 6 Series downgraded to 8.2.0.4170

Now everything is back to working like it was before. I'm getting DV from my ATV 4K and it's automatcially switching between SDR, HDR10, and DV.
And my ROku is now able to send HDR again. And switch between SDR and HDR10.

ANd my 1080P devices are back to bitstreaming audio. Instead of showing up as a DVI connection and not sending any audio.

No idea if a fix is in the works. I'm waiting to hear back from the ROku person on the ROku forums. I only just sent him a message confirming everything was working again since they downgraded the OS.

Aaron, have you come across anyone else that experienced problems similar to what you had with OS9? Those were some pretty major issues with your set. Mine has been fine so far with OS9 and as far as I can tell even my DV picture has remained the same and I still use DV Dark.
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