TCL 65" 6-Series 4K HDR TV First Look & Review - Page 203 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6061 of 6237 Old 04-20-2019, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by muLucy View Post
Received my 55R617 from Rakuten ( Electronic Express ) yesterday. Out of the box noticed the backlight problem, attached the picture down here. Contacted the TCL tech support, and they are telling me it's normal. Here is the response "there may be some significant levels of vignetting if you are viewing in dark scenes," really? I have owned a few FALD TVs before, own Vizio PQ65 as of now. TCL is playing games with me by claiming it's acceptable. These vignetting spots are visible even in some dynamic scenes when colors and frame change, very distracting honestly.

Settings:

Backlight 60

Brightness 50

Contrast 100

Local Dimming High



Another question to owners of this TV, does motion smoothing work on yours? Mine does nothing regardless of the content. Whether it's 30FPS Youtube Video or 24p Hollywood video, smoothing does absolutely nothing. I have owned Samsung, LG, Sony and I can tell the difference between 24,30,60,48FPS content, very sensitive to low frame content.


That's not viniette that's flashlight.

Is your local dimmimng on? That should not happen with local dimming on especially.

Yes action smoothing does work however I find I creates a lot of motion artifacting in high motion scenes.


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post #6062 of 6237 Old 04-20-2019, 02:13 PM
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That's not viniette that's flashlight.

Is your local dimmimng on? That should not happen with local dimming on especially.

Yes action smoothing does work however I find I creates a lot of motion artifacting in high motion scenes.


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Yes, it's 100% on. I also own the Vizio PQ65 ( I am not comparing Apples to Apples, but I know how the picture should look with local dimming on ). Action smoothing does absolutely nothing. As I said, I am a gamer; I see the difference between 30 and 60 frames, 25 or 50, 60 and 120FPS. I did not know the word "viniette or vignetting " before contacting the TCL tech support lol. It's a flashlight, and it bleeds into the black bars, it's all over the place. It's there regardless of the local dimming ( I can disable it or set it to low, it's there ).

BTW, I don't mind the picture artifacts created by the smoothing software. As I said, I get a headache from 24p and low frame rate content ( especially in scenes with camera panning ), but this is another topic I guess. Again, the motion smoothing adds zero frames. Tested on HDMI port with Fire TV and internal apps like Youtube and Plex. I think I lost the panel lottery really bad lol.
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post #6063 of 6237 Old 04-20-2019, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by muLucy View Post
Thanks for your response, I appreciate it. Tbh, I am not looking to get a perfect pitch black. The TV is actually displaying the content ( black background and local dimming test ). Those spots even appear sometimes in normal content with gray or dark colors, it's even worse with black bars in most movies, it's always there. All extra crap is disabled of course, even did another test with motion smoothing off, the same ( from Roku expert app disabled the noise reduction ).
What about the motion smoothing, does yours do anything? When I set the motion smoothing hight, the content does not become smoother. I play video games, and super sensitive to camera panning. I was wondering whether the TCL motion smoothing sucks or it's somehow is broken, this is my first TCL panel. Thank you!
Google typically has white backgrounds in their commercials where you will see the vignetting like you see when there is a video signal with no content. I watched a netflix movie "Wheelman" and thought my god they decided to use home video cameras to make the film. That is my first experience of the soap opera affect that motion smoothing provides. Turn it off. The way I look at it. If it ain't broke it doesn't need to be fixed with natural cinema, action smoothing or LED motion clarity. Your perspective if that by turning all those off somehow you are missing out on something that is good to begin with. It's all bad. Other than playing a movie for guests and saying this is the behind the scenes unedited footage of this or that film because that is what the picture looks like. When they make films they put them through a process that gives you that Hollywood film look we are all used to. Natural Cinema, LED motion clarity and action smoothing removes all of that.
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post #6064 of 6237 Old 04-20-2019, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by muLucy View Post
Yes, it's 100% on. I also own the Vizio PQ65 ( I am not comparing Apples to Apples, but I know how the picture should look with local dimming on ). Action smoothing does absolutely nothing. As I said, I am a gamer; I see the difference between 30 and 60 frames, 25 or 50, 60 and 120FPS. I did not know the word "viniette or vignetting " before contacting the TCL tech support lol. It's a flashlight, and it bleeds into the black bars, it's all over the place. It's there regardless of the local dimming ( I can disable it or set it to low, it's there ).



BTW, I don't mind the picture artifacts created by the smoothing software. As I said, I get a headache from 24p and low frame rate content ( especially in scenes with camera panning ), but this is another topic I guess. Again, the motion smoothing adds zero frames. Tested on HDMI port with Fire TV and internal apps like Youtube and Plex. I think I lost the panel lottery really bad lol.


I feel like it does add frames to Low frame rate material but with a 60hz panel cannot add frames to high frame rate.

I know that when I watch some compressed video streams that are staccato I can easily tell it smooths them out.


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post #6065 of 6237 Old 04-20-2019, 03:46 PM
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Google typically has white backgrounds in their commercials where you will see the vignetting like you see when there is a video signal with no content. I watched a netflix movie "Wheelman" and thought my god they decided to use home video cameras to make the film. That is my first experience of the soap opera affect that motion smoothing provides. Turn it off. The way I look at it. If it ain't broke it doesn't need to be fixed with natural cinema, action smoothing or LED motion clarity. Your perspective if that by turning all those off somehow you are missing out on something that is good to begin with. It's all bad. Other than playing a movie for guests and saying this is the behind the scenes unedited footage of this or that film because that is what the picture looks like. When they make films they put them through a process that gives you that Hollywood film look we are all used to. Natural Cinema, LED motion clarity and action smoothing removes all of that.
As I said, I love the Soap opera effect. I am also super sensitive to low frame rate videos; I get a headache after 20 minutes. Do I care about the artifacts, no, I don't? The reason why we got stuck with low frame movies is the cost of editing more frames and the cost of the new hardware and lighting, don't care what Tom Cruise is smoking. You did not get my point; mine does not work at all. Forget about you like it, or I hate it lol.

But I appreciate your input. I am going to exchange it next week through Electronic Express. Here is the short video with local contrast set to HIGH https://www.dropbox.com/s/3b0r4oydmi...81554.mp4?dl=0. It's terrible, horrible. I have owned OLEDs, Plasmas, budget, and expensive $4k TVs, but this crap is terrible no matter what TCL is trying to say here
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post #6066 of 6237 Old 04-20-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Devedander View Post
I feel like it does add frames to Low frame rate material but with a 60hz panel cannot add frames to high frame rate.

I know that when I watch some compressed video streams that are staccato I can easily tell it smooths them out.


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BTW, here is the video of local contrast in real-time set to HIGH https://www.dropbox.com/s/3b0r4oydmi...81554.mp4?dl=0. Called the vendor, they agreed to exchange it the next week. Thank you!

BTW, you know how I tested the motion smoothing to prove that I see everything right and to believe my own eyes. I have a soccer channel broadcasted in 30 frames and 60 frames on different streaming links. With 60 frames is always smooth, but when I test that channel on 30 fps with motion smoothing set to high, nothing happens, choppy camera panning because it is only 30FPS with no inserted frames.

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post #6067 of 6237 Old 04-20-2019, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by muLucy View Post
Yes, it's 100% on. I also own the Vizio PQ65 ( I am not comparing Apples to Apples, but I know how the picture should look with local dimming on ). Action smoothing does absolutely nothing. As I said, I am a gamer; I see the difference between 30 and 60 frames, 25 or 50, 60 and 120FPS. I did not know the word "viniette or vignetting " before contacting the TCL tech support lol. It's a flashlight, and it bleeds into the black bars, it's all over the place. It's there regardless of the local dimming ( I can disable it or set it to low, it's there ).

BTW, I don't mind the picture artifacts created by the smoothing software. As I said, I get a headache from 24p and low frame rate content ( especially in scenes with camera panning ), but this is another topic I guess. Again, the motion smoothing adds zero frames. Tested on HDMI port with Fire TV and internal apps like Youtube and Plex. I think I lost the panel lottery really bad lol.
Action smoothing does not work when Game mode is on. WHen Game mode is on you can't use motion smoothing or Natural Cinema. And when Game mode is off you can only have either Motion Smoothing or Natural CInema on. Only one of them.

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post #6068 of 6237 Old 04-20-2019, 07:12 PM
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Action smoothing does not work when Game mode is on. WHen Game mode is on you can't use motion smoothing or Natural Cinema. And when Game mode is off you can only have either Motion Smoothing or Natural CInema on. Only one of them.
To make everything clear here, I am not using this particular TV for gaming, only watching Movies, Shows, Cable and Youtube. The Game mode is OFF, 100%. The reason why I mentioned gaming, was trying to give a little background of my knowledge regarding the FPS, motion smoothing, motion flow, whatever you want to call it. It's going back to the seller ( Electronic Express ), they are going to swap it with another new unit. Fingers crossed for a better panel this time. When everybody was talking about the panel lottery, I thought the world was crazy but was I wrong. Here is the video of my panel's local dimming performance https://www.dropbox.com/s/3b0r4oydmi...81554.mp4?dl=0 with local dimming ( local contrast in TCL's language ) set to HIGH.

I did my homework with TLC's approach to picture settings. Let's just call defective TV defective.
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post #6069 of 6237 Old 04-20-2019, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by muLucy View Post
To make everything clear here, I am not using this particular TV for gaming, only watching Movies, Shows, Cable and Youtube. The Game mode is OFF, 100%. The reason why I mentioned gaming, was trying to give a little background of my knowledge regarding the FPS, motion smoothing, motion flow, whatever you want to call it. It's going back to the seller ( Electronic Express ), they are going to swap it with another new unit. Fingers crossed for a better panel this time. When everybody was talking about the panel lottery, I thought the world was crazy but was I wrong. Here is the video of my panel's local dimming performance https://www.dropbox.com/s/3b0r4oydmi...81554.mp4?dl=0 with local dimming ( local contrast in TCL's language ) set to HIGH.

I did my homework with TLC's approach to picture settings. Let's just call defective TV defective.
Yes. The screen should be nice and black with the Local COntrast set to high and that ball moving around on the screen.

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post #6070 of 6237 Old 04-20-2019, 07:31 PM
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Yes. The screen should be nice and black with the Local COntrast set to high and that ball moving around on the screen.
Thank you. I know it only has 96 zones ( not bad for 55" ), contrast ratio should go up to 7000 according to rtings. This thing looks worse than $150 Westinghouse Walmart brand TVs with not FALD. I also own the Vizio PQ65 with 192 zones; it was evident for me this thing was defective first I looked at it. And you the worst part, TCL is telling me it's normal, lol
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post #6071 of 6237 Old 04-21-2019, 12:32 AM
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If you're not happy, exchange the set. It in no way looks like a cheap Westinghouse. I came from a 10yo $2k pro calibrated plasma to the TCL and am very happy. Inky blacks and bright whites and good color. I bought a meter and spent the time doing an accurate calibration and almost a year into it I'm still stunned at the quality for the price. Sure, there are better displays out there, but at a steep price. The TCL hits all the main points very well and at a moderate price point. I can't ask for more.
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post #6072 of 6237 Old 04-21-2019, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by muLucy View Post
BTW, here is the video of local contrast in real-time set to HIGH https://www.dropbox.com/s/3b0r4oydmi...81554.mp4?dl=0. Called the vendor, they agreed to exchange it the next week. Thank you!



BTW, you know how I tested the motion smoothing to prove that I see everything right and to believe my own eyes. I have a soccer channel broadcasted in 30 frames and 60 frames on different streaming links. With 60 frames is always smooth, but when I test that channel on 30 fps with motion smoothing set to high, nothing happens, choppy camera panning because it is only 30FPS with no inserted frames.


Interesting... Yeah that tv is definitely no good. I wonder if the action smoothing will perform differently on your next set...


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post #6073 of 6237 Old 04-21-2019, 10:02 AM
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Interesting... Yeah that tv is definitely no good. I wonder if the action smoothing will perform differently on your next set...


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I will post the test results from my new set next week or whenever it gets exchanged. Thank you all for the support!
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post #6074 of 6237 Old 04-21-2019, 02:36 PM
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Interesting... Yeah that tv is definitely no good. I wonder if the action smoothing will perform differently on your next set...


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If you are interested, you can read my post over at https://www.reddit.com/r/Roku/commen...m_medium=web2x regarding my discoveries with local dimming and motion smoothing.
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Should I keep, return or replace

Hi all
I received the 65R617 from Rakuten/EE about a week ago.

I am not sure if I should keep, return or replace. I have been reading many comments here and on slickdeals and am totally confused. I ran some tests using DSE hockey test on youtube and some other tests. I definitely see dark corners in that test (all corners) and some smudges on the screen . I don't see the smudges in regular viewing (unless it's kids cartoons with lots of whites in it). However, the dark corners are visible. Is this a big deal? I am torn between getting my money's worth and who cares.

I tried to take a picture in a dark room (the bottom left is the energy sticker that I haven't removed yet). If there is a better way to take a picture, please let me know.

Please advise what should I do.

Thank you
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post #6076 of 6237 Old 04-21-2019, 09:33 PM
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Hi all
I definitely see dark corners in that test (all corners) Is this a big deal? I am torn between getting my money's worth and who cares.
That's called vignetting and pretty much all panels (yes even OLEDS) can have it. With that said, only you can decide what you are willing to put up with.

I know my 65" has it but I only noticed it when I went looking for it (ran a bunch of tests). During content (movies and video games), I never noticed it.

I haven't ran any tests on the 75" but my UHD BD player has bright white menu screens and I haven't noticed any "issues".
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post #6077 of 6237 Old 04-21-2019, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by chunno View Post
Hi all

I received the 65R617 from Rakuten/EE about a week ago.



I am not sure if I should keep, return or replace. I have been reading many comments here and on slickdeals and am totally confused. I ran some tests using DSE hockey test on youtube and some other tests. I definitely see dark corners in that test (all corners) and some smudges on the screen . I don't see the smudges in regular viewing (unless it's kids cartoons with lots of whites in it). However, the dark corners are visible. Is this a big deal? I am torn between getting my money's worth and who cares.



I tried to take a picture in a dark room (the bottom left is the energy sticker that I haven't removed yet). If there is a better way to take a picture, please let me know.



Please advise what should I do.



Thank you


Dark corners are just going to be a thing with FALD sets.

Your DSE. Looks pretty good from that picture


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post #6078 of 6237 Old 04-22-2019, 06:50 AM
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Can you expound upon your experience switching from the plasma to TCL? I have a 55VT60 that is awesome but I’ve moved to a new house with a bay of windows behind the TV, making it pretty hard to watch due to reflections. I’m having the same concerns over switching to LED that you did, but the TCL looks like a promising TV at a good price point (having trouble swallowing the cost of the new Samsungs). I have a decent collection of Blu-ray’s, watch Netflix, and game on PS4.

Pros, cons?
For the most part I am really liking the TV. The blacks are near the level of my ST60 (the ST60 blacks still look a little better but not by much) and even the color accuracy seems pretty spot on after entering the Rtings settings including the 11 point white scale. One thing that I did notice is that while I only have one couch that is centered on the TV about 8-9 feet away and I sit on the left side of the couch, and the right side of the TV starts washing out ever so slightly from the viewing angle. I saw it initially because the letterbox for 2.35 movies is a little lit lighter that than left side. The issue is not that bad though just something I noticed...if I sit in the center seat the dead center of the TV I get pretty uniform letterbox bars.

Motion handling seems pretty decent to me too which was another issue that I though might bother me more. If I am watching a fast paced sport like hockey (which is my least watched sport) you can definitely see some trails and is a bit bothersome to me but I did not notice anything like that when watching NBA or MLB.

As for the reflections, if that is something you are concerned about sadly this is not the TV for you. For as good as this TV performs in a light controlled room like the room I have it in now when I have the blinds up for the window behind the couch which is centered on the TV or if I have the ceiling fan light on it does effect the screen and does cause some reflection issues. I cannot really speak anymore on that as I really don't do much with the overhead light on or the window blinds up so maybe other that have this TV in a bright room can chime in.

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post #6079 of 6237 Old 04-22-2019, 07:29 AM
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I wanted to ask this here since there is more traffic that the 75" 6 series thread and I would imagine this is the same across all 6 series TV's. I have never used ARC on any of my TV's so I really am not sure how it works. What I am trying to figure out is if I watching PS Vue through the app on the TV how do I get audio out of my AVR? Right now I have all my devices going to my RZ830 and a single HDMI going from the ARC input on the AVR to the ARC output on the TCL but can only get sound from the TV.

Do I need to have two HDMI cables going from the TV to the AVR? One cable from a regular HDMI output to the ARC input on the AVR for my PS4/XB1X/Oppo and another from the ARC HDMI output on the TV to the TV input on the AVR?

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post #6080 of 6237 Old 04-22-2019, 07:43 AM
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are you selecting the "tv audio" on the receiver/remote? do you have ARC/CEC setup on the receiver?

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post #6081 of 6237 Old 04-22-2019, 07:52 AM
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I wanted to ask this here since there is more traffic that the 75" 6 series thread and I would imagine this is the same across all 6 series TV's. I have never used ARC on any of my TV's so I really am not sure how it works. What I am trying to figure out is if I watching PS Vue through the app on the TV how do I get audio out of my AVR? Right now I have all my devices going to my RZ830 and a single HDMI going from the ARC input on the AVR to the ARC output on the TCL but can only get sound from the TV.

Do I need to have two HDMI cables going from the TV to the AVR? One cable from a regular HDMI output to the ARC input on the AVR for my PS4/XB1X/Oppo and another from the ARC HDMI output on the TV to the TV input on the AVR?
To use the ARC only requires one HDMI cable. You use the ARC HDMI input on the TV. And that cable will send video to the TV from the receiver. And it will also send audio to the receiver from the TV. When viewing the TVs internal apps or using a device connected to one of the other TVs HDMI inputs.

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post #6082 of 6237 Old 04-22-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by chunno View Post
Hi all
I received the 65R617 from Rakuten/EE about a week ago.

I am not sure if I should keep, return or replace. I have been reading many comments here and on slickdeals and am totally confused. I ran some tests using DSE hockey test on youtube and some other tests. I definitely see dark corners in that test (all corners) and some smudges on the screen . I don't see the smudges in regular viewing (unless it's kids cartoons with lots of whites in it). However, the dark corners are visible. Is this a big deal? I am torn between getting my money's worth and who cares.

I tried to take a picture in a dark room (the bottom left is the energy sticker that I haven't removed yet). If there is a better way to take a picture, please let me know.

Please advise what should I do.

Thank you
If the dark corners aren't visible during regular viewing (or extremely rarely) then don't sweat it. I had a TCL tv for 2 years prior to getting this new one. I never noticed any dark corners or thought about it. Then after doing research for the new TCL I saw references to dark corners (vignetting) and did a test. Suddenly I saw them. They had been there all along for 2 years but I hadn't seen them and they had never been a distraction during regular viewing.

Sometimes ignorance really is bliss. Don't go looking for problems, because you'll find something in every tv, and it's difficult to unsee once you see them.

If you see problems during regular viewing then that's a different story.
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post #6083 of 6237 Old 04-22-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
are you selecting the "tv audio" on the receiver/remote? do you have ARC/CEC setup on the receiver?
Probably a no to both of them. LOL

I am going to check when I get home tonight.

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post #6084 of 6237 Old 04-22-2019, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
To use the ARC only requires one HDMI cable. You use the ARC HDMI input on the TV. And that cable will send video to the TV from the receiver. And it will also send audio to the receiver from the TV. When viewing the TVs internal apps or using a device connected to one of the other TVs HDMI inputs.
So I guess what I do not understand then is what input my AVR needs to be on to get the TV audio over ARC? I am guessing there is a something like solarrdadd mentioned about "TV audio" on the AVR remote.

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post #6085 of 6237 Old 04-22-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Smigro View Post
So I guess what I do not understand then is what input my AVR needs to be on to get the TV audio over ARC? I am guessing there is a something like solarrdadd mentioned about "TV audio" on the AVR remote.
when it's set up properly, ARC will act as a "check valve" at times allowing audio to travel both ways on the single hdmi cable. the ARC cable must be connected to the ARC hdmi port on both the tv and the receiver, they will be labeled as such. CEC/ARC must be enabled and setup on both the tv and receiver. (plenty of videos on youtube about that).

when you have something connected to the tv's hdmi 1 or 2, that audio will be routed to the receiver via the ARC hdmi 3 connectors capability and it will send that audio to the receivers ARC hdmi port. to hear that audio you have to select the "tv audio" for that receiver, this allows you to now hear the audio via your receiver while watching the video on the tv.

if you are doing anything that is connected to the receivers hdmi ports, then you simply select that port and you will hear audio from the receiver and send video only to the tv.

the two keys are setting everything up and switching to tv audio. some receivers/tv via CEC will automatically switch the receiver to tv audio when it senses audio coming to the receiver via the ARC/hdmi port on the receiver.

done and done.
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post #6086 of 6237 Old 04-22-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by solarrdadd View Post
when it's set up properly, ARC will act as a "check valve" at times allowing audio to travel both ways on the single hdmi cable. the ARC cable must be connected to the ARC hdmi port on both the tv and the receiver, they will be labeled as such. CEC/ARC must be enabled and setup on both the tv and receiver. (plenty of videos on youtube about that).

when you have something connected to the tv's hdmi 1 or 2, that audio will be routed to the receiver via the ARC hdmi 3 connectors capability and it will send that audio to the receivers ARC hdmi port. to hear that audio you have to select the "tv audio" for that receiver, this allows you to now hear the audio via your receiver while watching the video on the tv.

if you are doing anything that is connected to the receivers hdmi ports, then you simply select that port and you will hear audio from the receiver and send video only to the tv.

the two keys are setting everything up and switching to tv audio. some receivers/tv via CEC will automatically switch the receiver to tv audio when it senses audio coming to the receiver via the ARC/hdmi port on the receiver.

done and done.
Thanks a lot for the thorough explanation. After reading that it makes a lot more sense to me and I think my issues is that the TV and/or the AVR do not have ARC setup since I know I did not do it and I doubt they are defaulted. I will dive into this tonight when I get home.

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post #6087 of 6237 Old 04-23-2019, 03:29 AM
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Thanks for all the help yesterday aaronwt and solarrdadd. Got all the ARC stuff working last night and it is so nice having the audio go to my AVR from in TV apps.
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post #6088 of 6237 Old 04-23-2019, 06:16 AM
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Just chiming in to say that DV on The OA II on Netflix looks incredible. Everything looks awesome to our eyes.
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post #6089 of 6237 Old 04-23-2019, 01:15 PM
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Does anyone have any good content they recommend checking out to really see this TV in action and first 4k etc TV? I have Amazon Prime but that's about the only current subscription I have to anything. I have a friend who will probably let me use their Netflix but they aren't paying any extra for 4k if that's required. Any good "free" content out there through Prime or anything else other than the 2 minute clips in the Dolby app on the TV? Should I look into buying a 4k UHD player, or subscribing to anything else if I can afford it for content? I see the TV has Fandango and Vudu and some other services to buy and or rent movies from, if I am interested in potentially buying or renting a movie to see my TV in action, is one service more recommended or preferable to another? Would I be better off buying a player and physical media if I was really interested in purchasing a movie instead of doing so on a digital platform? Really would like to enjoy the TV as much as possible but currently limited to cable/Prime/Laptop and 1080p consoles. My laptop has GTX 1080 and can output 4k without issue, but I don't know if it can do UHD abilities, and even so all of my digital movies on my hard drives are 1080p or lower.
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post #6090 of 6237 Old 04-23-2019, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNameIsSam View Post
That's called vignetting and pretty much all panels (yes even OLEDS) can have it. With that said, only you can decide what you are willing to put up with.

I know my 65" has it but I only noticed it when I went looking for it (ran a bunch of tests). During content (movies and video games), I never noticed it.

I haven't ran any tests on the 75" but my UHD BD player has bright white menu screens and I haven't noticed any "issues".
I think they should make TV's with rounded corners...so we do not see vignetting in the corners!
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