Official Vizio P Series 2018 (P55-F1, P65-F1, P75-F1) Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 92 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2731 of 2945 Old 06-07-2019, 10:59 AM
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Official Vizio P Series 2018 (P55-F1, P65-F1, P75-F1) Owners Thread (No Price Talk)

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post #2732 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 10:52 AM
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I ordered a Vizio P75 online and it arrived today, after setting it up there appear to be Waffle-like patterns that I can see on bright screens.





What is it? Is this normal? Is it something easily fixed? Should I try to return it?
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post #2733 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livejamie View Post
I ordered a Vizio P75 online and it arrived today, after setting it up there appear to be Waffle-like patterns that I can see on bright screens.





What is it? Is this normal? Is it something easily fixed? Should I try to return it?
That is just the back lighting....
most are not noticeable when watching regular or 4K content...
sometime they disappear after playing several movies....
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post #2734 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rc-zombies View Post
That is just the back lighting....
most are not noticeable when watching regular or 4K content...
sometime they disappear after playing several movies....
Oh, it's not Vertical Banding or Dirty Screen Effect?
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post #2735 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by livejamie View Post
Oh, it's not Vertical Banding or Dirty Screen Effect?
It's the infamous jailbar effect that people on here complain about, myself included. It's basically you seeing all the dimming zones/back light LEDs. It's a defect with the TV. If it doesn't show up in content than no big deal. But for me it did, and I went through five P75s.

Your only option is to just deal with it, or exchange it until you get one where the effects are not so bad. Some on here have gotten panels without these issues, but a lot of us were not so lucky.
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post #2736 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MrVizio View Post
It's the infamous jailbar effect that people on here complain about, myself included. It's basically you seeing all the dimming zones/back light LEDs. It's a defect with the TV. If it doesn't show up in content than no big deal. But for me it did, and I went through five P75s.

Your only option is to just deal with it, or exchange it until you get one where the effects are not so bad. Some on here have gotten panels without these issues, but a lot of us were not so lucky.
Thanks for your response.

How does one return a 75" TV? Would I go through the place I ordered it or Vizio?
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post #2737 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 04:25 PM
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I got the p75-f1 from Costco a few weeks ago and it just started doing the random flickering white pixel lines across the screen last night (SDR and HDR content). Do you guys know if this is a pretty low % of sets and maybe I can just exchange for a different one or is this pretty common on all of these 2018 P series vizios?
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post #2738 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 04:42 PM
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I've been using a NVIDIA SHIELD that I ordered from Amazon in 2015, is that going to give me the best quality picture when streaming?

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NVIDIA SHIELD - 4K Streaming Media (Netflix, HBO, Kodi / XBMC). Android TV with Chromecast. Advanced Gaming. 4X Higher Performance (Apple TV / Roku)
Sold by: Amazon.com Services, Inc
$143.29
Condition: New
It sucks that Hulu doesn't support Android TV so I need to find another service. :|
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post #2739 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by livejamie View Post
Oh, it's not Vertical Banding or Dirty Screen Effect?
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post #2740 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by kzx5rs View Post
I got the p75-f1 from Costco a few weeks ago and it just started doing the random flickering white pixel lines across the screen last night (SDR and HDR content). Do you guys know if this is a pretty low % of sets and maybe I can just exchange for a different one or is this pretty common on all of these 2018 P series vizios?
Never had it and I went thru several (one with vertical line, rest DSE, last TV I kept as was and still is great).
RETURN.
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post #2741 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 05:12 PM
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Never had it and I went thru several (one with vertical line, rest DSE, last TV I kept as was and still is great).
RETURN.
Yeah, agreed, really liked this TV until that happened last night. No banding or cloudiness on this set so i thought i got lucky. Hoping the next one doesn't trade one problem for another...
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post #2742 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by kzx5rs View Post
I got the p75-f1 from Costco a few weeks ago and it just started doing the random flickering white pixel lines across the screen last night (SDR and HDR content). Do you guys know if this is a pretty low % of sets and maybe I can just exchange for a different one or is this pretty common on all of these 2018 P series vizios?
I don't think it's too uncommon, I also bought a P55-F1 at Costco a month ago and I've only started seeing the white lines this week.
Searched a bit and some fixes include power cycling the TV, fixes it for an hour before you see one again.
Also some mentions that it's caused by CEC, whatever HDMI video source you have.

Personally I don't think it's annoying enough to return mine, I dislike the "reverse blooming" much more.
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post #2743 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by quietvoid View Post
I don't think it's too uncommon, I also bought a P55-F1 at Costco a month ago and I've only started seeing the white lines this week.
Searched a bit and some fixes include power cycling the TV, fixes it for an hour before you see one again.
Also some mentions that it's caused by CEC, whatever HDMI video source you have.

Personally I don't think it's annoying enough to return mine, I dislike the "reverse blooming" much more.
TV is great for the money, I actually enjoy regular TV programming more now because of the better pic quality, even at 720p. If I had these annoyances they would drive me "loco". I would have had returned it and if I couldn't, I would had asked for VIZIO to fix it or replace it - believe me when I told them it had DSE they knew exactly what it was, they didn't even question it, they sent a brand new replacement within a week or so.
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post #2744 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 07:12 PM
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lol
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post #2745 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by livejamie View Post
Thanks for your response.

How does one return a 75" TV? Would I go through the place I ordered it or Vizio?
You can do either. I guess start with what is the most convenient. I got mine through BB. They delivered it. So I just kept doing in-house exchanges. Didn't cost me a dime. Minor inconvenience. You can also go directly through Vizio. I did that for the last exchange. It really is the panel lottery with this set. Whcih is a shame, it's a great image minus all the bs issues.

I'm holding out for the new Quantum X displays. Hoping they get these issues worked out on those.
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post #2746 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 09:59 PM
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Okay guys I could use some help here. I have a P-Series p75 F1 Vizio television. I am experiencing some Black crush in Dolby vision. It appears to be related to the TV itself and not because of any device as I've confirmed it now on multiple devices. What it is is in Dolby vision the TV clips about 2% above black. This is non defeatable. raising the brightness does not cause the bars to appear below 2% on a test pattern while in Dolby vision. Hdr10 works fine, SDR works fine. this is kind of hard for a lot of people to confirm because there is no known Dolby vision test patterns that I'm aware of, however. the way I am testing this is by using a Sony x700 Dolby vision Blu-ray player and I'm running hdr10 patterns through the USB port on that player. Since the player can be forced into Dolby vision it then plays the hdr10 test patterns as Dolby vision as well. you might be saying well it's just because the way you're running the patterns that you're getting this result however I am seeing the result in video content as well. when I switch back and forth between Dolby vision and hdr10 on compatible movies there is definitely the same small amount of Black crush which is taking place. anyway, I'm hoping somebody can either confirm or deny the existence of this on their TV running the latest firmware
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post #2747 of 2945 Old 06-11-2019, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Hamner View Post
Okay guys I could use some help here. I have a P-Series p75 F1 Vizio television. I am experiencing some Black crush in Dolby vision. It appears to be related to the TV itself and not because of any device as I've confirmed it now on multiple devices. What it is is in Dolby vision the TV clips about 2% above black. This is non defeatable. raising the brightness does not cause the bars to appear below 2% on a test pattern while in Dolby vision. Hdr10 works fine, SDR works fine. this is kind of hard for a lot of people to confirm because there is no known Dolby vision test patterns that I'm aware of, however. the way I am testing this is by using a Sony x700 Dolby vision Blu-ray player and I'm running hdr10 patterns through the USB port on that player. Since the player can be forced into Dolby vision it then plays the hdr10 test patterns as Dolby vision as well. you might be saying well it's just because the way you're running the patterns that you're getting this result however I am seeing the result in video content as well. when I switch back and forth between Dolby vision and hdr10 on compatible movies there is definitely the same small amount of Black crush which is taking place. anyway, I'm hoping somebody can either confirm or deny the existence of this on their TV running the latest firmware
I have the same player and TV as you. DV is always much darker than HDR10 and SDR. I generally watch most DV content with the lights completely off. My assumption is its the way the director wanted it. But it could be something else.

I just know there's a lot of information/details in dark areas that are not meant to be seen as per the director's vision. When they re-released Jurassic Park at the theaters in IMAX, I made sure to take note of a few dark spots on bluray on my calibrated Plasma at home first. I couldn't believe how badly the blacks were 'crushed' in those same shots at the theater. I could see so much more black detail on my Plasma. So again, maybe those crushed blacks in DV are intentional. Or maybe the TV doesn't display DV properly. Could be anything I suppose. Maybe someone else here has thoughts on it.

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post #2748 of 2945 Old 06-12-2019, 07:41 AM
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I have the same player and TV as you. DV is always much darker than HDR10 and SDR. I generally watch most DV content with the lights completely off. My assumption is its the way the director wanted it. But it could be something else.

I just know there's a lot of information/details in dark areas that are not meant to be seen as per the director's vision. When they re-released Jurassic Park at the theaters in IMAX, I made sure to take note of a few dark spots on bluray on my calibrated Plasma at home first. I couldn't believe how badly the blacks were 'crushed' in those same shots at the theater. I could see so much more black detail on my Plasma. So again, maybe those crushed blacks in DV are intentional. Or maybe the TV doesn't display DV properly. Could be anything I suppose. Maybe someone else here has thoughts on it.
Thank you for your response. I think the only way directors intent can be preserved in dolbyvision is if all steps above black are preserved, something that dolbyvision isn't currently doing on my TV. It appears to me like the whole signal is slightly shifted darker in comparison to Hdr-10. This is causing the Black crush as the signal hits the TVs black point prematurely. also as a result the intire image is a little darker with the potential for dimmer highlights in some movie.as a result the picture is less accurate . Since the tv can't display blacker than black picture info the shadow details are simply lost at 2% above black .
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post #2749 of 2945 Old 06-12-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Hamner View Post
I think the only way directors intent can be preserved in dolbyvision is if all steps above black are preserved, something that dolbyvision isn't currently doing on my TV. It appears to me like the whole signal is slightly shifted darker in comparison to Hdr-10. This is causing the Black crush as the signal hits the TVs black point prematurely. also as a result the intire image is a little darker with the potential for dimmer highlights in some movie.as a result the picture is less accurate . Since the tv can't display blacker than black picture info the shadow details are simply lost at 2% above black .

What is your backlight setting for DV? Counterintuitively, you do not use brightness/contrast to adjust black levels/gamma in HDR picture modes as you would for SDR, you use the Backlight setting. If you want to raise blacks, you raise the backlight from its default '50'. This will boost the entire EOTF, so you'll likely have to balance avoiding black crush with having proper brightness elsewhere in the curve.

Many people complain of DV content being 'too dark'. I personally think it's a side effect of the ever-increasing brightness these TVs display SDR content; people now are used to an SDR APL of 200-300 nits, when it used to be more like 100-150 nits, max. Dolby Vision content is still mastered to the 100-150 APL level (plus HDR highlights), so now it looks 'dark' compared to the boosted SDR signal everyone is watching that routinely hits multiple hundreds of nits.
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post #2750 of 2945 Old 06-12-2019, 10:03 AM
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I noticed DV being darker via Smartcast. But I don't care since I have a $29 refurbished Fire TV 4K stick and a ATV4k ... and DV looks wonderful.
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Originally Posted by Michael Hamner View Post
Okay guys I could use some help here. I have a P-Series p75 F1 Vizio television. I am experiencing some Black crush in Dolby vision. It appears to be related to the TV itself and not because of any device as I've confirmed it now on multiple devices. What it is is in Dolby vision the TV clips about 2% above black. This is non defeatable. raising the brightness does not cause the bars to appear below 2% on a test pattern while in Dolby vision. Hdr10 works fine, SDR works fine. this is kind of hard for a lot of people to confirm because there is no known Dolby vision test patterns that I'm aware of, however. the way I am testing this is by using a Sony x700 Dolby vision Blu-ray player and I'm running hdr10 patterns through the USB port on that player. Since the player can be forced into Dolby vision it then plays the hdr10 test patterns as Dolby vision as well. you might be saying well it's just because the way you're running the patterns that you're getting this result however I am seeing the result in video content as well. when I switch back and forth between Dolby vision and hdr10 on compatible movies there is definitely the same small amount of Black crush which is taking place. anyway, I'm hoping somebody can either confirm or deny the existence of this on their TV running the latest firmware
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post #2751 of 2945 Old 06-12-2019, 11:40 AM
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I noticed DV being darker via Smartcast. But I don't care since I have a $29 refurbished Fire TV 4K stick and a ATV4k ... and DV looks wonderful.
Yeah, but he shouldn't be having these issues directly from 4K DV discs if everything is working properly.
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post #2752 of 2945 Old 06-12-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Hamner View Post
Thank you for your response. I think the only way directors intent can be preserved in dolbyvision is if all steps above black are preserved, something that dolbyvision isn't currently doing on my TV. It appears to me like the whole signal is slightly shifted darker in comparison to Hdr-10. This is causing the Black crush as the signal hits the TVs black point prematurely. also as a result the intire image is a little darker with the potential for dimmer highlights in some movie.as a result the picture is less accurate . Since the tv can't display blacker than black picture info the shadow details are simply lost at 2% above black .
As WRXPilot mentioned, what is your backlight set at for DV? It's a good point because I actually boosted mine up quite a bit. Also, being I have the same player, perhaps I could test things out on my end for us to compare, as long as we have a common DV disc.
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post #2753 of 2945 Old 06-12-2019, 04:44 PM
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What is your backlight setting for DV? Counterintuitively, you do not use brightness/contrast to adjust black levels/gamma in HDR picture modes as you would for SDR, you use the Backlight setting. If you want to raise blacks, you raise the backlight from its default '50'. This will boost the entire EOTF, so you'll likely have to balance avoiding black crush with having proper brightness elsewhere in the curve.

Many people complain of DV content being 'too dark'. I personally think it's a side effect of the ever-increasing brightness these TVs display SDR content; people now are used to an SDR APL of 200-300 nits, when it used to be more like 100-150 nits, max. Dolby Vision content is still mastered to the 100-150 APL level (plus HDR highlights), so now it looks 'dark' compared to the boosted SDR signal everyone is watching that routinely hits multiple hundreds of nits.
Yes I am aware of all of that. I know that the overall apl shouldn't be much different in HDR than SDR. In fact my SDR is calibrated to 100nits per industry standards. I am one of those people that actually profiles my colorimiter against my spectroradiometer before I calibrate so am aware of what you are saying. What I'm saying is that the signal is clipped at 2% above black regardless of settings. Including the backlight setting. What I need is to confirm if this is a bug in the DV perhaps introduced with the latest firmware or if I'm the only one and it's something specific to me. To confirm this I need someone who can display a brightness pattern while in Dolby vision mode. To see if this is happening on there end. Like I said, Hdr-10 displays correctly. As a side note, I have the same settings for dv as hdr-10. The brightness contrast and backlight is set to 50 as this is the only correct setting for hdr on this tv. Backlight is medium so as to enable the sets ability to properly display highlights in HDR.
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post #2754 of 2945 Old 06-12-2019, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Hamner View Post
Thank you for your response. I think the only way directors intent can be preserved in dolbyvision is if all steps above black are preserved, something that dolbyvision isn't currently doing on my TV. It appears to me like the whole signal is slightly shifted darker in comparison to Hdr-10. This is causing the Black crush as the signal hits the TVs black point prematurely. also as a result the intire image is a little darker with the potential for dimmer highlights in some movie.as a result the picture is less accurate . Since the tv can't display blacker than black picture info the shadow details are simply lost at 2% above black .
As WRXPilot mentioned, what is your backlight set at for DV? It's a good point because I actually boosted mine up quite a bit. Also, being I have the same player, perhaps I could test things out on my end for us to compare, as long as we have a common DV disc.
If you could test that would be great I'm using this on a USB drive.

https://diversifiedvideosolutions.com/products.html
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Yeah, but he shouldn't be having these issues directly from 4K DV discs if everything is working properly.
Not true. My Samsung 8500 4K Blu-ray player exhibits a different signature than my streaming devices. It silly to assume that all devices are shipped with some standardized calibration. Wish they were. But they are not. That concern applies to apps as well. Black level on StarZ app on ATV4K is very different from StarZ app on Roku. Too many variables that ruin the experience. Its nuts. In any case, I watched Passengers 4K HDR Blu-ray on my 8500 + P75-F1 and it was breathtaking.
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That is just the back lighting....
most are not noticeable when watching regular or 4K content...
sometime they disappear after playing several movies....
I could see the grid in a small area of my P75-F1 when I installed it. Now it’s gone. It was a floor model, so it seems likely that these issues disappear after a while. I know for sure that my 5 yr old Samsung 4K LED set had DSE when I first bought it. But after a couple of months of intensive use, it was gone. Maybe it’s the glue they use ... I am just guessing.
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post #2757 of 2945 Old 06-12-2019, 09:05 PM
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Yeah, but he shouldn't be having these issues directly from 4K DV discs if everything is working properly.
Not true. My Samsung 8500 4K Blu-ray player exhibits a different signature than my streaming devices. It silly to assume that all devices are shipped with some standardized calibration. Wish they were. But they are not. That concern applies to apps as well. Black level on StarZ app on ATV4K is very different from StarZ app on Roku. Too many variables that ruin the experience. Its nuts. In any case, I watched Passengers 4K HDR Blu-ray on my 8500 + P75-F1 and it was breathtaking.
In my case however I checked for the crush through a USB drive connected to the Sony x700 but I also verified the same crush was present through my 4k fire stick. I couldn't specifically confirm crush in DV through the tv's own USB port because I can't force the set into Dv in order to use the hdr-10 patterns through DV. The patterns running as hdr-10 where consitant with the other devices through the TV's usb though.
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post #2758 of 2945 Old 06-12-2019, 09:16 PM
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If you could test that would be great I'm using this on a USB drive.

https://diversifiedvideosolutions.com/products.html
The link for those test patterns are 25-85 bucks each! Or am I missing something.
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If you could test that would be great I'm using this on a USB drive.

https://diversifiedvideosolutions.com/products.html
The link for those test patterns are 25-85 bucks each! Or am I missing something.
Nope that's it unless u know of another way to reliably test the Dolby vision black level. Maybe if u have a newer version of calman running on a PC with a conformed accurate HDMI output that could work but that's probably not really verifiable so this is the only way I know short of a external DV pattern generator. I don't if that even exists yet and if it does it would *****y cost thousands of dollars.
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post #2760 of 2945 Old 06-12-2019, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Hamner View Post
Nope that's it unless u know of another way to reliably test the Dolby vision black level. Maybe if u have a newer version of calman running on a PC with a conformed accurate HDMI output that could work but that's probably not really verifiable so this is the only way I know short of a external DV pattern generator. I don't if that even exists yet and if it does it would *****y cost thousands of dollars.
Yeah brother, you're talking to the wrong guy lol. I'm totally a nerd when it comes to TVs, calibration and equipment, but only from the sidelines. I've never invested money in any of it. When I get a calibration done for a display I hire someone. Sorry
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