Originally Posted by imagic
I'm not making an argument for 8K, I'm just saying it's coming and it does not upset me.
My personal reason to want 8K is digital photography, not movie watching. I do not think home theater projection and typical associated screen sizes relative to viewing distance need 8K.
With AI upscaling of 4K and 1080p content, I think the chicken vs egg
question for 8K displays vs content
has been answered, and that answer is: the chicken
In other words, AI upscaling is what makes these TVs actually better / sharper than 4K, and an immediate benefit which is always there, assuming you sit close enough to the TV to see any difference and have good eyesight.
For both console and PC gamers I can see it being useful to have 8K with such upscaling. Many 4K monitors exist now at 27 inches so I don't see why 65-85 inch TVs at 8K wouldn't deliver more bang. As a PC dev and programmer, I am very excited by 8K just for the screen real estate along but only once the prices come down. A lot.
Another thing to mention is, when fed with typical FHD or UHD 4:2:0 content, the chroma channels will also need to be upscaled, and I bet any money they do that using AI for that too. I mean, why wouldn't they, it's the majority of the content out there, it would make no sense for it to only work with 4:4:4 or RGB inputs.
So people complaining about chroma subsampling reducing potential fidelity all the time need to rejoice!
Also, a couple comments about HDMI 2.1 support here. While 8K30 probably means they are still using HDMI 2.0's 18 gbps (or maybe 20 gbps) chips, they possible have DSC compression, which is a factor of 3x improvement in bandwidth.
If so, that means these TVs could do 4K120hz HDR10+ in 4:4:4.
And possibly with variable refresh rates, although I haven't seen that reported in the media. If they manage to maintain 15ms input lag while upscaling 4K120 (in 4:4:4) to 8K120 (in 4:4:4), then that's going to deliver a massive bang for the buck upgrade in terms of both spatial and temporal resolution.
I hope they do in fact support 8K30 in full chroma over HDMI 2.1 input, in 4:4:4 and 10-bit, given DSC's factor of 3 pixel clock boost which is more than enough to deliver 10-bit 4:4:4 even with 18 gbps inputs. It's not necesserily the case, though. Some high end DisplayPort 1.4 G-Sync monitors require you to drop to 4:2:2 when above 98hz because they didn't implement DSC yet. Bummer.
If they deliver Freesync 2 as well, this TV will be a godsend to gamers, at least Xbox One and PC users with an AMD graphics card. Also, apparently there's a hack to get Freesync out of an AMD GPU while using an NVidia card to render the game, so you get both high FPS and Freesync over HDMI to your new TV. Let's hope it does do Freesync, then! And allow 4K30 to 4K120hz VRR range, with HDR10+ too.
Also, 8K30 in 4:4:4 means 8K60 in 4:2:0 is also theoretically possible. If 8K30 is only at 4:2:0, which is also possible if DSC isn't supported over the HDMI 2.1 connection (which would be a major disappointment), that nevertheless means 8K24 at 10-bit is possible at 4:2:0 over 18 gbps. Which I'd consider the bare minimum to even call these TVs 8K-compatible, really.
4K60 in 8-bit in 4:4:4 is the max HDMI 2.0a can muster.
4K48 is similarly the max at 10-bit in 4:4:4, because 48 / 60 is the same ratio as 8 / 10 (8-bit vs 10-bit colour). So you can trade six of one for a half dozen of the other, so to speak.
This means you can do 4K96 in 10-bit in 4:2:0 over HDMI 2.0a without DSC
, which is the same exact bandwidth as 8K24 (four times more pixels per frame but 1/4 of the refresh rate), in 10-bit 4:2:0.
I would still prefer waiting for full 48 gbps HDMI 2.1 + DSC which will allow 8K120 in HDR10+ in 4:2:0, or 4K144 in HDR10+ in 4:4:4, then upscale it using the fancy upscaler, which is the most viable option for gamers, in the short to medium term.
The amazing colour volume that 4000 nits delivers, as you rightly said, means less aggressive tone mapping so highlights needn't be crushed to elevate the APL enough to be watchable with the lights on.
I'm much more concerned with 4K max input refresh rate, so I hope it supports 120hz, even if it is only in 4:2:0.