Official Sony Master Series Z9F 75/65” Owners Thread (2018/2019) - Page 166 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4951 of 5641 Old 03-26-2019, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sgupta View Post
It's interesting that XDR doesn't skew HDR/Dolby Vision in the same way. I guess from your previous explanation, it just allows the extra data that's there to fit in the widest possible range without needing to introduce any errors, whereas with SDR there just isn't enough data to do this without introducing skewing?

For Local Dimming, I'll stick to Medium for everything SDR I think. I take it High is generally recommended for HDR/Dolby Vision?

I think I'm getting there with settings... My old OLED is officially in its new home so there's no going back now. =oP
The sun, a lamppost and UI text in SDR may all look equally bright (100% white) but in reality their intensity differ by quite a margin, this is where HDR comes to the rescue, it's capable of describing the varying luminosity levels to a much higher degree of precision than the SDR format.

XDR when enabled in SDR mode will try to restore the punch of highlights and light sources as they were at the time of capture (by a camera or rendered in a game) but as the SDR content already is compressed to fit within the more limited luminosity range of older TV's the algorithm can only do an educated guess, how would it know the difference between a white lamppost or the sun? This is what I mean by the XDR being incorrect as it will brighten all the white parts equal amounts and making UI text searing like the sun.

When HDR is active, XDR acts almost like a secondary Brightness slider but really should be kept at High as it's no longer about trying to recovering lost luminosity levels beyond the SDR levels but instead properly map the TV's luminosity range to the HDR standard. It's good to know that HDR data values are specified to be absolute, a real world 100 nit light source if captured properly and stored in the data as 100 nit should light up on the TV screen when measured with a light probe as 100 nit as long as the TV can output the necessary amount of luminosity. In order for this to map correctly you need to set the XDR to High and most likely Brightness to Max but in reality not a lot of content we consume try to be accurate and often has contrast and colors artistically tweaked so I would rather adjust the Brightness slider to my liking, if the image feels too bright, than XDR to preserve the HDR luminosity values relationships.

Finally, the only reason I would lower XDR in HDR mode would perhaps be to try and decrease blooming a bit but then you're kind of negating the whole point of buying an LCD for HDR and it's superior brightness and baring burn-in issues, could have gone with an OLED instead.

Edit: Regarding Local Dimming, use which every High or Medium you prefer as the differences is minor. Using Medium to rein in some blooming at the expense of some peak brightness but it's effect is very subtle.

Last edited by JoelArt; 03-26-2019 at 06:44 PM.
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post #4952 of 5641 Old 03-26-2019, 06:58 PM
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I am really questioning the purpose of this TV. I really tried to love it and was more than willingly to spend the high MSRP for it for what I thought it was unique for, a bright room.(Am old enough to have learned not to cheap out anymore, buy quality 1st and save buying a 2nd) though I don't demand perfection either. This set was supposed to be a "Living Room Master. " but can not really handle any ambient light, at 7pm eastern I can see myself in the 65 inch screen and count my teeth ~11 feet out during most normal tv scenes. If i need crazy light control why am I buying an LCD(and no, burn in was never an issue, we don't game nor watch CNBC stock watch all day )? I will say the viewing angles are great though. Another why go LCD that sucks in light question honestly though.

If the blooming talk was uniform around brightness/lettering I would also not complain but the set displays weirdness as described in
"65-z9f-issues-with-clouding-under-only-certain-circumstances" at the Sony forum
that has been pointed out by multiple guests unprompted. For the price of this set I am not sure the market/value. Was at a friend's house watching the NCAA tournament this weekend on a 73 inch Samsung(I think) he bought from BJ's that week for 1/3 what I paid and felt like a chump. At-least I couldn't see my disdain in the screen reflection that I would have seen in mine.

Forget I have been sent two defective tv's already from a "Master Series pre calibrated" line. The execution/purpose seems questioning.

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post #4953 of 5641 Old 03-26-2019, 07:35 PM
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Hey everyone - I have a support case open with Sony regarding the Chromecast Built In capability of the Z9F.

Would people try using their phone to cast a Hulu program to the tv and tell me if it works for them?

Here's what happens for me. When I use any device to cast, in this case a Google Pixel 3XL, I open Hulu and cast any program from Hulu to the Z9F. It will show the Hulu splash screen, it will show Hulu advertisements, and then the second the actual program starts, it freezes and after a bit sends back an error message.

Has anyone else tried this specific scenario and could you report back what happens?

I own the 65" version of the TV.
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post #4954 of 5641 Old 03-26-2019, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Soundizer17 View Post
I am currently torn between getting the 65inch ZF9 or the new 65inch X950G. I mostly watch in a dark room and sit straight on. The Z9F is currently £600 less than the X950G and that is allot of money for me.
That looks to be $800 US Dollars, How long do you keep your sets? If it is 2 or 3 years probably 950G, however if you are keeping it 7-10 years might as well spend the extra cash.....

Would be nice to see a true head to head comparison on these.
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post #4955 of 5641 Old 03-26-2019, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelArt View Post
The sun, a lamppost and UI text in SDR may all look equally bright (100% white) but in reality their intensity differ by quite a margin, this is where HDR comes to the rescue, it's capable of describing the varying luminosity levels to a much higher degree of precision than the SDR format.

XDR when enabled in SDR mode will try to restore the punch of highlights and light sources as they were at the time of capture (by a camera or rendered in a game) but as the SDR content already is compressed to fit within the more limited luminosity range of older TV's the algorithm can only do an educated guess, how would it know the difference between a white lamppost or the sun? This is what I mean by the XDR being incorrect as it will brighten all the white parts equal amounts and making UI text searing like the sun.

When HDR is active, XDR acts almost like a secondary Brightness slider but really should be kept at High as it's no longer about trying to recovering lost luminosity levels beyond the SDR levels but instead properly map the TV's luminosity range to the HDR standard. It's good to know that HDR data values are specified to be absolute, a real world 100 nit light source if captured properly and stored in the data as 100 nit should light up on the TV screen when measured with a light probe as 100 nit as long as the TV can output the necessary amount of luminosity. In order for this to map correctly you need to set the XDR to High and most likely Brightness to Max but in reality not a lot of content we consume try to be accurate and often has contrast and colors artistically tweaked so I would rather adjust the Brightness slider to my liking, if the image feels too bright, than XDR to preserve the HDR luminosity values relationships.

Finally, the only reason I would lower XDR in HDR mode would perhaps be to try and decrease blooming a bit but then you're kind of negating the whole point of buying an LCD for HDR and it's superior brightness and baring burn-in issues, could have gone with an OLED instead.

Edit: Regarding Local Dimming, use which every High or Medium you prefer as the differences is minor. Using Medium to rein in some blooming at the expense of some peak brightness but it's effect is very subtle.
Thanks so much for the explanation! This all makes MUCH more sense to me now, and I really appreciate you taking the time to explain why XDR is proper for HDR but not really for SDR. Also, I appreciate the understanding of why turning it on made certain colors in certain interfaces more flat.

XDR off for SDR it is, with Medium LD. I'll turn XDR back to High for all HDR/DV content, and probably LD to High as well to give the most contrast to the higher resolution and more vibrant content (I can live with the blooming, but it's good to know Medium is an option if it's too bothersome).

I do have another question for anyone who happens to know - is there any actual difference between TrueMotion to Off and TrueMotion to Custom Minimum Smoothness Minimum Clearness?
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post #4956 of 5641 Old 03-26-2019, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dalejoel View Post
Hey everyone - I have a support case open with Sony regarding the Chromecast Built In capability of the Z9F.

Would people try using their phone to cast a Hulu program to the tv and tell me if it works for them?

Here's what happens for me. When I use any device to cast, in this case a Google Pixel 3XL, I open Hulu and cast any program from Hulu to the Z9F. It will show the Hulu splash screen, it will show Hulu advertisements, and then the second the actual program starts, it freezes and after a bit sends back an error message.

Has anyone else tried this specific scenario and could you report back what happens?

I own the 65" version of the TV.
I tried this on my 75", but keep in mind I have an iPhone, so it's via an app instead of native to the phone. But it also didn't work. Weirdly, the add BEFORE the program played fine, but then I just got a black screen with the FOX logo in the corner. Perhaps this is some sort of copy protection thing in the app that's detecting it's being broadcast and cutting it off? That'd be my guess...

Is there a reason you can't use the Hulu app on the TV itself?

Also, what's the error message?
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post #4957 of 5641 Old 03-26-2019, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sgupta View Post
I tried this on my 75", but keep in mind I have an iPhone, so it's via an app instead of native to the phone. But it also didn't work. Weirdly, the add BEFORE the program played fine, but then I just got a black screen with the FOX logo in the corner. Perhaps this is some sort of copy protection thing in the app that's detecting it's being broadcast and cutting it off? That'd be my guess...

Is there a reason you can't use the Hulu app on the TV itself?

Also, what's the error message?
Thank you! What you described is exactly what happens to me. So this indicates it's a bug with the TV.

The error message is a code that pops up if you leave it frozen for a bit. I talked to Hulu and they said that message indicates it can't find a connection. What will happen now is other casting will start to fail. NBC, Google Play Movies, YouTube... they would work prior to trying Hulu and now will start to fail as well. Play Movies will freeze for me at 18% loading of a film for instance. Unplugging the tv for two minutes often brings the other apps back, but Hulu will never work.

It's not that I can't use the apps directly from the TV, it's that I don't want to. I prefer casting from my phone because I find it an easier experience. Additionally my Google Home devices can use voice commands to watch programs and they require the Chromecast feature to work for that.

I'm curious if this happens to people with other TVs that run the Android TV OS. Anyone with a different Sony model, possibly the Z9D or 8xx/9xx models?
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post #4958 of 5641 Old 03-27-2019, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
That looks to be $800 US Dollars, How long do you keep your sets? If it is 2 or 3 years probably 950G, however if you are keeping it 7-10 years might as well spend the extra cash.....

Would be nice to see a true head to head comparison on these.
I think you may have mixed up the pricing or perhaps I didn’t clarify. The 65in ZF9 is £600 less than the X950G where as [correct me if i am wrong - the ZF9 65inch is 1 thousand more than X950G in USA).
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post #4959 of 5641 Old 03-27-2019, 01:30 PM
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My wifi dropped again, im at a loss how to enter manually?

I have all my ip from my pc using cmd/ipconfig

Do I need to drop wifi or forget it and then enter everything? Im connected to wifi but when i enter everything manually it just says saved
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post #4960 of 5641 Old 03-27-2019, 02:26 PM
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My wifi dropped again, im at a loss how to enter manually?

I have all my ip from my pc using cmd/ipconfig

Do I need to drop wifi or forget it and then enter everything? Im connected to wifi but when i enter everything manually it just says saved
Typically, you would:

1. Reboot the TV by holding down the On/Off button on the remote.
2. Go to the WiFi setup screen.
3. Wait for the TV to discover your wireless network.
4. Select the network (if the TV doesn't automatically select it).
5. Wait for the connection to be established (the TV should have cached the password).

When you say "enter everything", do you mean re-type in the WiFi password? The TV should remember it. BTW, if you ever need to type in stuff on this TV, it is nice to have a USB keyboard to make data entry easier. I have a model number that works on the Z9F if you need it.
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post #4961 of 5641 Old 03-27-2019, 02:41 PM
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Typically, you would:

1. Reboot the TV by holding down the On/Off button on the remote.
2. Go to the WiFi setup screen.
3. Wait for the TV to discover your wireless network.
4. Select the network (if the TV doesn't automatically select it).
5. Wait for the connection to be established (the TV should have cached the password).

When you say "enter everything", do you mean re-type in the WiFi password? The TV should remember it. BTW, if you ever need to type in stuff on this TV, it is nice to have a USB keyboard to make data entry easier. I have a model number that works on the Z9F if you need it.
No, you mentiomed your wifi used to drop so instead of auto detect you entered static ip manually and did not use auto detect!
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post #4962 of 5641 Old 03-27-2019, 03:54 PM
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No, you mentiomed your wifi used to drop so instead of auto detect you entered static ip manually and did not use auto detect!
I think you are confused about what a static IP does. Regardless of whether you use DHCP or a static IP, the TV will detect your WiFi SSID and attempt to re-connect using the last settings used in configuring the network.

So, please provide a description of exactly what is happening in your case. Is the WiFi SSID being detected? If yes, what happens when you select it? Does it ask you to re-enter the password?
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post #4963 of 5641 Old 03-27-2019, 04:24 PM
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Hey guys I’ve only posted a few times as a member to this forum but that’s just because most of the questions that have come to mind we’re usually already asked and answered. I consider myself an early adopter when it comes to the latest tech and have been through the early phases of Plasma TV’s, DLP TV’s, the Sharp Quatron Electron extra yellow pixel- lol, Sammy first or maybe second gen with the one connect box, Sony 75X940D, and now this 75Z9F... I gotta say this TV is night and day compared to the 940D. At least owning the 940D for 2 years- there were some bugs I just couldn’t get over. To name a few: the clunkiness of Android, horrible blooming, HDR would make the tv freeze or become even slower than it already was... now I almost went for the Z9D but I concerned about the operating system and processing power so I waited.. and I saw all the reviews of the Z9F getting destroyed all over YouTube and other forums. But I still just had to see for myself. Honestly coming from a 940D this TV handles everything I throw at it and not to mention my Fios cable service looks pretty damn good.. no noise atleast that I can see.. anyways I just figured I would add my two cents. Sorry if I wrote a lot my adderall hasn’t worn off yet Click image for larger version

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post #4964 of 5641 Old 03-27-2019, 04:49 PM
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Figured I'd post a few more observations.

I was able to answer my own question about Motionflow Off vs. Custom with Min Smoothness & Min Clearness. It *DOES* do something on Custom. I tried it on for a bit, and for a Youtube video last night with someone moving their hands up and down rapidly (it wasn't the greatest quality, so I think it confused Motionflow), Custom Min Min definitely introduced artifacts from trying to smooth the image and actually made it worse and even confusing to look at. Turning Motionflow off resolved this. I also noticed that it increases the amount of white flashes I see between bright and dark scenes. So for me, Motionflow is best left Off.

Also, now that I've turned off X-tended Dynamic Range for SDR content, whether games or movies, I'm very pleased with the results. UI's look right now and the games look better. Spider Man still is dimmer than the HDR version, but looks proper now (more contrasty, but correctly so). God of War and 2D arcadey games look great too and have their color pop I'm used to back. So if you're disappointed in game mode looking flat on this TV, be sure to turn XDR off and try. It's on by default and IMO shouldn't be.

Finally, with XDR off, Netflix Calibrated mode looks good again and doesn't do that really aggressive brightness dimming and lightening thing. I still don't see a huge difference between it and regular Custom, but it's usable again. It must interact somehow in a strange way with XDR on, so that definitely needs to be Off for this mode. (XDR was off for Netflix Calibrated mode by default.). Brightness of 4 seems to be fairly equivalent to Max Brightness + Light Sensor On for my environment.
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post #4965 of 5641 Old 03-27-2019, 05:17 PM
 
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Hey guys I’ve only posted a few times as a member to this forum but that’s just because most of the questions that have come to mind we’re usually already asked and answered. I consider myself an early adopter when it comes to the latest tech and have been through the early phases of Plasma TV’s, DLP TV’s, the Sharp Quatron Electron extra yellow pixel- lol, Sammy first or maybe second gen with the one connect box, Sony 75X940D, and now this 75Z9F... I gotta say this TV is night and day compared to the 940D. At least owning the 940D for 2 years- there were some bugs I just couldn’t get over. To name a few: the clunkiness of Android, horrible blooming, HDR would make the tv freeze or become even slower than it already was... now I almost went for the Z9D but I concerned about the operating system and processing power so I waited.. and I saw all the reviews of the Z9F getting destroyed all over YouTube and other forums. But I still just had to see for myself. Honestly coming from a 940D this TV handles everything I throw at it and not to mention my Fios cable service looks pretty damn good.. no noise atleast that I can see.. anyways I just figured I would add my two cents. Sorry if I wrote a lot my adderall hasn’t worn off yet Attachment 2545142


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The people that hate the Z9F are the one that don't own one. If you do own one you own the best LCD on the market. AVS and Youtube are famous for a momentum hysteria.

Z9F has ther best motion, detail, off angle viewing, color, operating system of any LCD and on my set no blooming
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post #4966 of 5641 Old 03-27-2019, 05:32 PM
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Likewise no blooming here either. I’m just impressed on so many levels. I’ve had this pup for about a month now. Still need to calibrate it and can’t even imagine how much better this set can look.


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post #4967 of 5641 Old 03-27-2019, 05:45 PM
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I gotta say this TV is night and day compared to the 940D.
I upgraded to the 75Z9F from a 75X940D as well, which has been relocated to the bedroom. While I respect your right to express an opinion, I don’t share your negative thoughts on the 940D. I acknowledge the relative slowness of the Android operating system, but I find that the 940D still has outstanding PQ. I have never experienced any of the other issues you mentioned. While I applaud your praise of the Z9F, I don’t think your disparaging comments on the 940D are warranted.
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post #4968 of 5641 Old 03-27-2019, 06:51 PM
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Ehh I went through 3 940Ds with outrageous issues. I mean I’ve seen the weirdest things happen with that model.. I too still have the my 940D but I definitely stay true to my “negative thoughts” on a set that I spent $5,500 to only be replaced a few years later. Sorry I hurt your feelings buddy.


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post #4969 of 5641 Old 03-27-2019, 07:28 PM
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Ehh I went through 3 940Ds with outrageous issues. I mean I’ve seen the weirdest things happen with that model.. I too still have the my 940D but I definitely stay true to my “negative thoughts” on a set that I spent $5,500 to only be replaced a few years later. Sorry I hurt your feelings buddy.


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I just don’t see the value of making disparaging comments now that you have moved on. Better to focus on positive and/or negative comments on the model that is the focus of this thread.
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post #4970 of 5641 Old 03-27-2019, 07:40 PM
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Bruh I was just lightly touching on my previous experience on that model. I think your looking far more into what I said. I don’t think it’s appropriate to police a comment that doesn’t jive with your experience.

That was my experience and I’m sure others have had a better experience or similar or worst. Doesn’t matter to me anyway it was just me speaking from my experience.


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post #4971 of 5641 Old 03-28-2019, 01:25 AM
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I think you are confused about what a static IP does. Regardless of whether you use DHCP or a static IP, the TV will detect your WiFi SSID and attempt to re-connect using the last settings used in configuring the network.

So, please provide a description of exactly what is happening in your case. Is the WiFi SSID being detected? If yes, what happens when you select it? Does it ask you to re-enter the password?
Ummm my issue is my wifi drops and i need to unplug the tv so it can auto detect it again, I swear wasnt it you that had the same issue?

Im trying to duplicate what you did to resolve the issue, at this point i might drill my wall and run a ethernet through the wall
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post #4972 of 5641 Old 03-28-2019, 07:04 AM
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Ummm my issue is my wifi drops and i need to unplug the tv so it can auto detect it again, I swear wasnt it you that had the same issue?

Im trying to duplicate what you did to resolve the issue, at this point i might drill my wall and run a ethernet through the wall
Something seems to be different. Forcing a reboot by pressing and holding the Power Off button on the remote always restored my WiFi connection with no further action. Unplugging the TV also forces a reboot, but using the Power button on the remote was easier for me.

I have since switched to a wired connection and have had no further network drops.
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post #4973 of 5641 Old 03-28-2019, 07:43 AM
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Just a note that I watched Vincent's review of the X950G on Youtube (I won't link here since it's not our TV, but just look for today's video on the HDTVTest channel if you'd like to see it - he talks about it a little past halfway through toward the end of the video IIRC), and he had a few interesting comments about the Z9F.

Apparently, the Z9F is already being phased out of production and will only be available until supplies run out. Sony's reasoning behind this is they only allow one Master Class designation per size, and that's being replaced the the 65" and 77" OLED models for 2019... He predicts Sony is going to discontinue all their truly high end LCD's to focus fully on OLED's. He thinks once Samsung gets their Quantum OLED technology, they're likely to do the same thing...

I have to say this:

A) Made me really, really glad I got the Z9F when I did. I'm a gamer (who had significant burn-in progressing on his previous LG OLED), and this seems to be the best TV around for gamers.
B) Makes me paranoid in the event this fails prematurely about getting a decent replacement, but I guess we'll hope for the best and cross that bridge if we happen to come to it. I also hope this doesn't mean support for these TV's isn't as good as their others...
C) Makes me really hope miniLED/microLED (I can never remember which one is which) is the next quantum leap in display technology that has the best of both worlds...because I really want to avoid another OLED in the future if burn-in remains an issue.

Anyways, I figured you folks might find this interesting. I'm a little depressed at this prospect, honestly. That said, I'm guessing LCD midrange displays will still be a thing, and even those are getting increasingly impressive... But even so. Anyways, hope this isn't too off topic, but I thought it was relevant.
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post #4974 of 5641 Old 03-28-2019, 07:43 AM
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Something seems to be different. Forcing a reboot by pressing and holding the Power Off button on the remote always restored my WiFi connection with no further action. Unplugging the TV also forces a reboot, but using the Power button on the remote was easier for me.

I have since switched to a wired connection and have had no further network drops.
The one time it happened to me holding power to force a reboot fixed it as well.
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post #4975 of 5641 Old 03-28-2019, 08:04 AM
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Ummm my issue is my wifi drops and i need to unplug the tv so it can auto detect it again, I swear wasnt it you that had the same issue?

Im trying to duplicate what you did to resolve the issue, at this point i might drill my wall and run a ethernet through the wall
Try configuring a DHCP reservation on your wireless router, this fixed a similar issue I had on my 900e. It seemed as though every time the TV was in sleep mode for more than a couple of days it would be confused and the wifi would drop. The DHCP reservation ensures that the IP stays the same and seemed to fix the issue.

Oh, I also just needed to do a reboot using the remote to fix, did not need to go to the extreme of dropping power.
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post #4976 of 5641 Old 03-28-2019, 11:54 AM
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Oh, I also just needed to do a reboot using the remote to fix, did not need to go to the extreme of dropping power.
Other than a possible difficulty getting to the power cord, pulling the plug and holding the remote button down accomplish exactly the same thig--rebooting the Android operating system.
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post #4977 of 5641 Old 03-28-2019, 01:06 PM
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Just a note that I watched Vincent's review of the X950G on Youtube (I won't link here since it's not our TV, but just look for today's video on the HDTVTest channel if you'd like to see it - he talks about it a little past halfway through toward the end of the video IIRC), and he had a few interesting comments about the Z9F.



Apparently, the Z9F is already being phased out of production and will only be available until supplies run out. Sony's reasoning behind this is they only allow one Master Class designation per size, and that's being replaced the the 65" and 77" OLED models for 2019... He predicts Sony is going to discontinue all their truly high end LCD's to focus fully on OLED's. He thinks once Samsung gets their Quantum OLED technology, they're likely to do the same thing...



I have to say this:



A) Made me really, really glad I got the Z9F when I did. I'm a gamer (who had significant burn-in progressing on his previous LG OLED), and this seems to be the best TV around for gamers.

B) Makes me paranoid in the event this fails prematurely about getting a decent replacement, but I guess we'll hope for the best and cross that bridge if we happen to come to it. I also hope this doesn't mean support for these TV's isn't as good as their others...

C) Makes me really hope miniLED/microLED (I can never remember which one is which) is the next quantum leap in display technology that has the best of both worlds...because I really want to avoid another OLED in the future if burn-in remains an issue.



Anyways, I figured you folks might find this interesting. I'm a little depressed at this prospect, honestly. That said, I'm guessing LCD midrange displays will still be a thing, and even those are getting increasingly impressive... But even so. Anyways, hope this isn't too off topic, but I thought it was relevant.


IMO the key is he predicts it’s all speculation at this point.
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post #4978 of 5641 Old 03-29-2019, 12:42 AM
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I noticed several people/places seem to recommend turning Smooth Gradation to Off for Dolby Vision, as you lose detail. I have it set to Low for most other sources but off for that. Would that also apply to HDR, so I should turn it off for HDR sources? If anyone happens to know, thanks.
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post #4979 of 5641 Old 03-29-2019, 07:13 AM
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I noticed several people/places seem to recommend turning Smooth Gradation to Off for Dolby Vision, as you lose detail. I have it set to Low for most other sources but off for that. Would that also apply to HDR, so I should turn it off for HDR sources? If anyone happens to know, thanks.
In general, I leave image enhancement settings turned off. But, to be fair, I have not meticulously experimented with every setting with every type of content to see if there is a visible difference, either better or worse. My time has usually been spent relaxing and enjoying all types of content displayed by this excellent TV. I rarely see PQ issues, and when I do, it is normally attributable to poor content quality.
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post #4980 of 5641 Old 03-29-2019, 08:20 AM
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According to this the 98" will be $70k (!!!!) and the 85" will be $13k. Sorry if this has already been posted in this thread:

https://hdguru.com/leaked-pricing-su...er-series-tvs/
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