Official Sony Master Series Z9F 75/65” Owners Thread (2018/2019) - Page 52 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1531 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
And the next year, and the next and then the year after that.....


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Haha. Well it's always nice to see what new models they come up with. Luckily most of the time I can manage with the same set for a couple of years though.


But truth be told, it's getting harder with each time trying to convince the missus an upgrade is "absolutely necessary".
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post #1532 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
I disagree with the thought that’s Sony purposely sabotaged the black levels on the Z9F so it wouldn’t complete with the A9F. Lol.
If anything Sony didn’t want to bring out a $6000 LCD, in today’s market that would not sell.


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You have to admit though, Sony can put their label on something and sell it. At any given moment, they can roll a project out of R&D and call it “good enough” for this sales cycle.

IMO, the Z9F is “one” variable away from a perfect 10 here discounting the internal sound system of course because who uses that? The biggest negative (some light in the black bars) is a direct result of one of it’s 3 biggest positives... peak nits in HDR. I’m sure the scientists are working the lab to figure out how to make it better. Whether we’ll ever see the result in the F gen, who knows.


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Vizio 2016 P series FAQ, general info and Help
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post #1533 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 04:35 AM
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And the next year, and the next and then the year after that.....


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Honestly this display has so many great qualities besides the issues I've had. The upscaling on this makes my LG C6 look ancient. Also Full screen Content with no black bars is absolutely great on this display. I'm still waiting for my guy from magnolia to come on Monday so he can see my issues first hand, and he can get In contact with his Sony reps. How have you been enjoying your display?

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post #1534 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Every enthusiast has a “primary” sensitivity. That doesn’t mean we don’t have more but there’s always that “one” thing that we’re entirely intolerant of. For me it’s visible uniformity/DSE and why I was unlikely to ever buy another LCD. That doesn’t make the other variables unimportant but perhaps they get graded on a curve.

I’m with the 75” Z9F now for 2 weeks. I’ve been viewing it critically for the entire time. I’m a big fan but you can see that I called out the light in the cinema bars on day one. I remain in my original position that for the most part, the DR between the bars and APL is well balanced, but hotspots do occur in the bars adjacent to peak zonal HDR elements. It’s a fact. Sounds like Sony’s left this as an issue before and they’ll likely leave it as a characteristic of this display as well.

Point is, if this is your “sensitivity”, and you are unable to balance it out of the equation with the Z9F’s positives (there are many), it’s not the right display for you.

If I had to define the perfect application for the Z9F, it’s a “multipurpose, family room display that can be viewed from any reasonable angle providing a superb image in light and low-ambient conditions”. It holds it’s own is a theatrical setting but it will be beat on black level and the cinema bar thing will be a nag with some users.


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post #1535 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
You have to admit though, Sony can put their label on something and sell it. At any given moment, they can roll a project out of R&D and call it “good enough” for this sales cycle.

IMO, the Z9F is “one” variable away from a perfect 10 here discounting the internal sound system of course because who uses that? The biggest negative (some light in the black bars) is a direct result of one of it’s 3 biggest positives... peak nits in HDR. I’m sure the scientists are working the lab to figure out how to make it better. Whether we’ll ever see the result in the F gen, who knows.


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Well Thomas, you can rest easy that the vaunted Z9D with all it's zones also has light spillage into the letterbox bars, particularly since the DV update in January (and subsequent updates since then). It is quite noticable in a pitch black room. It is what it is...it either bothers you or it doesn't. Me, I can live with it.

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post #1536 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bluemoon737 View Post
Well Thomas, you can rest easy that the vaunted Z9D with all it's zones also has light spillage into the letterbox bars, particularly since the DV update in January (and subsequent updates since then). It is quite noticable in a pitch black room. It is what it is...it either bothers you or it doesn't. Me, I can live with it.

Hmm, that's not how I'm experiencing it.



If you mean some slightly elevated black levels in the black bars when there is something really bright next to it during HDR(10) content, then I would say yes. It's no OLED. But I haven't experienced anything "quite noticable" myself though, and I watch in the dark also.

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post #1537 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 05:26 AM
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I can vouch for light spillage on the 75xZ9D. It’s very minor compared to, say, a 900F (haven’t seen a 75xZ9F obviously) but I have noticed it multiple times in store (dark room) and at buddies house. But the Z9Ds performance is so stellar, any bloom seems a non-issue on the 75xZ9D.

Some great posts here.

For me, I’m more sensitive to pixel response speed, PWM flicker (thankfully SONY doesn’t have issues with this like Samsung and others(flicker is an absolute deal killer for me, I can spot a plasma from 100ft away)), size - it’s gotta be 75 or bigger, and it cannot have any sort of image-retention/burn-in due to heavy HTPC use/stills. Those priorities really land me squarely with the high-end SONY FALDs. Bloom does bother me if it’s bad enough like on the 900F (horrendous black bar performance on 75 and 85) as it just ruins immersion, which for us movie guys, is our chance during a busy, stressful week to disconnect and get... immersed.

I’ll hold any sort of sky is falling comments an out the 75xZ9F until I actually view one in a dark room with HDR content. This is subjective, but it is troubling the performance may be worse than the 75xZ9D. How much worse will decide whether I drop the cash or not. Eagerly awaiting more Pro reviews - unfortunately rtings will probably only be reviewing the 65xZ9F. Zero assumptions can be made between the two sizes - completely different sets.
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post #1538 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I just wanted to comment a bit on perception. My eyes specifically (I’ve had LASIK and still wear glasses at times) contribute to some of the perceptual issues with HDR and deep blacks. My glasses reduce perceptual contrast so I remove them when I’m watching a movie. Instantly the image improves. My residual issues as a result of the LASIK surgery are known side-effects of LASIK and they are: reduction in contrast and increased sensitively (haloing and blooming) of bright objects at night or in dim settings.

If I use drops, image sharpness improves and the artifacts around bright objects are lessened. I have to be careful not to judge without taking my time to analyze what I’m percieving.

I’m sure some of you can attest to this as well.

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post #1539 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 06:00 AM
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And the next year, and the next and then the year after that.....


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This. Tempted to wait for the new processor to trickle to the 900 series but then you get surprised when it doesn't and are another year without.
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post #1540 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 06:03 AM
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Hmm, that's not how I'm experiencing it.



If you mean some slightly elevated black levels in the black bars when there is something really bright next to it during HDR(10) content, then I would say yes. It's no OLED. But I haven't experienced anything "quite noticable" myself though, and I watch in the dark also.
I guess it comes down to the definition of "quite noticeable". My definition is that if it easily perceptable then it is "quite noticeable".
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post #1541 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
I can vouch for light spillage on the 75xZ9D. It’s very minor compared to, say, a 900F (haven’t seen a 75xZ9F obviously) but I have noticed it multiple times in store (dark room) and at buddies house. But the Z9Ds performance is so stellar, any bloom seems a non-issue on the 75xZ9D.

Some great posts here.

For me, I’m more sensitive to pixel response speed, PWM flicker (thankfully SONY doesn’t have issues with this like Samsung and others(flicker is an absolute deal killer for me, I can spot a plasma from 100ft away)), size - it’s gotta be 75 or bigger, and it cannot have any sort of image-retention/burn-in due to heavy HTPC use/stills. Those priorities really land me squarely with the high-end SONY FALDs. Bloom does bother me if it’s bad enough like on the 900F (horrendous black bar performance on 75 and 85) as it just ruins immersion, which for us movie guys, is our chance during a busy, stressful week to disconnect and get... immersed.

I’ll hold any sort of sky is falling comments an out the 75xZ9F until I actually view one in a dark room with HDR content. This is subjective, but it is troubling the performance may be worse than the 75xZ9D. How much worse will decide whether I drop the cash or not. Eagerly awaiting more Pro reviews - unfortunately rtings will probably only be reviewing the 65xZ9F. Zero assumptions can be made between the two sizes - completely different sets.
If motion is a thing for you and I suspect it is judging by your pixel response comment, you should hope that Z9F 75 meets you needs. Once BFI is needed, all displays flicker, some more than others... except for the top 2 new Sonys with their low setting zonal implementation.

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post #1542 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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One thing I predict all the reviews / shootout results will admit... the Z9F has am amazing picture. Then the “data” will point to “average this and that.....

It’s the sum of it’s parts and a testament to Sony’s advances in optics and image processing.
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post #1543 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by DJR662 View Post
Hmm, that's not how I'm experiencing it.



If you mean some slightly elevated black levels in the black bars when there is something really bright next to it during HDR(10) content, then I would say yes. It's no OLED. But I haven't experienced anything "quite noticable" myself though, and I watch in the dark also.
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I guess it comes down to the definition of "quite noticeable". My definition is that if it easily perceptable then it is "quite noticeable".
Let me add some info to this statement. My seating is such that "my" viewing position is centered more or less on the right side of the screen (front row is 2 seat loveseat style with small center "console") and about 7' away from the screen. From my position the left side of the screen anomalies are "quite noticeable" and the right side much less so. Suspect, but don't know yet, that the Z9F will be better in this regards.
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post #1544 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 06:15 AM
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That's what I call immersion.
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post #1545 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 06:30 AM
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Well Thomas, you can rest easy that the vaunted Z9D with all it's zones also has light spillage into the letterbox bars, particularly since the DV update in January (and subsequent updates since then). It is quite noticable in a pitch black room. It is what it is...it either bothers you or it doesn't. Me, I can live with it.
Does this light spillage affect non-DV content as well?
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post #1546 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 06:35 AM
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Does this light spillage affect non-DV content as well?
Yes, well at least any HDR content. SDR, not so much (really, really have to look for it..more of the general elevated black level).

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post #1547 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 06:36 AM
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Let me add some info to this statement. My seating is such that "my" viewing position is centered more or less on the right side of the screen (front row is 2 seat loveseat stlye with small center "console") and about 7' away from the screen. From my position the left side of the screen anomalies are "quite noticeable" and the right side much less so. Suspect, but don't know yet, that the Z9F will be better in this regards.

As much as I love my Z9Ds, their viewing angles are the absolute worst I have ever seen.


I'm pretty sure the Z9F will easily beat the Z9D in that regard.
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post #1548 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 06:45 AM
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As much as I love my Z9Ds, their viewing angles are the absolute worst I have ever seen.


I'm pretty sure the Z9F will easily beat the Z9D in that regard.
Yeah, at first I thought I just had an issue with that side of the screen and tried the "rubbing it out" fix to no avail. I then one night sat in the other seat (which I never do...it's not MY seat ) and sure enough I noticed the same thing on the other side of the screen. The obvious culprit being the incredibly narrow viewing angles of the Z9D and by all reports the Z9F should completely blow away the Z9D in this regard.

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post #1549 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 06:55 AM
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Let me add some info to this statement. My seating is such that "my" viewing position is centered more or less on the right side of the screen (front row is 2 seat loveseat stlye with small center "console") and about 7' away from the screen. From my position the left side of the screen anomalies are "quite noticeable" and the right side much less so. Suspect, but don't know yet, that the Z9F will be better in this regards.
Wow, I didn't realize the z9d was that narrow. I wonder if that is due to the BMD on how is focuses the light to minimize bloom.

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post #1550 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 06:59 AM
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Wow, I didn't realize the z9d was that narrow. I wonder if that is sure to the BMD on how is focuses the light to minimize bloom.

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Yeah, obviously the tightly collimated LED light path of the BMD contributes significantly to this and is likely why it was not used with the X-Wide tech in the Z9F.
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Looks like D-Nice won't be at the shootout because of some drama. It sucks that happened but I can understand some of it with the comment he made. It took me back a bit....but then I figured he was joking. It sucks because he can be real objective and I wanted to meet him.
I look forward to seeing these displays side by side and a controlled environment and see how this all plays out.

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post #1552 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 07:18 AM
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Wow, I didn't realize the z9d was that narrow. I wonder if that is sure to the BMD on how is focuses the light to minimize bloom.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

Yeah, it really is that narrow. It could very well be as a result of the BMD tech because I have never witnessed such narrow viewing angles before on any LCD I have owned or seen. The 65" is in the bedroom. The TV's total widht is 146 centimeters (I'm from Europe, sorry ) and our bed's width is about 140 centimeters. If I sit right next to the bed, the picture is already deteriorating.


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Yeah, obviously the tightly collimated LED light path of the BMD contributes significantly to this and is likely why it was not used with the X-Wide tech in the Z9F.

I would say that sounds very logical to me.
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post #1553 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 07:19 AM
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Even with OLED one can occasionally see some very slight light spillage from bright highlights adjacent to the black bars, and some blooming around very bright white objects on a black background. It's a function of the limitation of the human visual system.....One would need to level match the white lettering on both to gauge how much blooming is the weakness of our eyes, and how much is a function of the limitations of the backlight system.
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I just wanted to comment a bit on perception. My eyes specifically (I’ve had LASIK and still wear glasses at times) contribute to some of the perceptual issues with HDR and deep blacks. My glasses reduce perceptual contrast so I remove them when I’m watching a movie. Instantly the image improves. My residual issues as a result of the LASIK surgery are known side-effects of LASIK and they are: reduction in contrast and increased sensitively (haloing and blooming) of bright objects at night or in dim settings.

If I use drops, image sharpness improves and the artifacts around bright objects are lessened. I have to be careful not to judge without taking my time to analyze what I’m percieving.

I’m sure some of you can attest to this as well.
These two posts resonate with me. I had cataract surgery late last year. Prior to that, I was seeing halos around bright lights, especially noticeable when driving at night or when I looked at a bright point of light such as a streetlamp. While this has improved with surgery, it has not disappeared completely. As a result, when I see a bright spot next to the black bars, I still see what looks like light bleed into the bars, but it is difficult to attribute the effect to the display or to my vision. It is something that I have become used to, which is why light bleed into black bars is not high on my list of how to evaluate a display (no disrespect, @djoberg ). I am much more interested in other display attributes, specifically motion handling and screen uniformity. This is why I have especially appreciated the comments by @thomasfxlt , because the things he likes about the Z9F are exactly what I am looking for. Unless something is revealed in tomorrow's shootout that changes my mind, I will be placing an order for the 75Z9F early next week.

Last edited by AustinJerry; 09-22-2018 at 07:40 AM.
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post #1554 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 07:26 AM
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These two posts resonate with me. I had cataract surgery late last year. Prior to that, I was seeing halos around bright lights, especially noticeable when driving at night or when I looked at a bright point of light such as a streetlamp. While this has improved with surgery, it has not disappeared completely. As a result, when I see a bright spot next to the black bars, I still see what looks like light bleed into the bars, but it is difficult to attribute the effect to the display or to my vision. It is something that I have become used to, which is why light bleed into black bars is not high on my list of how to evaluate a display (no disrespect, @djoberg ). I am much more interested in other display attributes, specifically motion handling and screen uniformity. This is why I have especially appreciated the comments by @thomasfxlt , because the things he likes about the Z9F are exactly what I am looking for. Unless something is revealed in tomorrow's shootout that changes my mind, I will be placing an order for the 75Z9D early next week.
Makes sense but did you mean you'll be ordering a 75z9f?

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2018 Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio M50-E1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Marantz SR6013, AppleTV-4K, XBox One & (X), NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
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post #1555 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 07:41 AM
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Makes sense but did you mean you'll be ordering a 75z9f?

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Yes, of course, thanks. Fixed in the original post.
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post #1556 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 08:26 AM
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Long time lurker and infrequent poster, but I've been following this thread since the beginning and will be picking up a 65" Z9F in the early afternoon today to replace a burned in C7 we bought last year. I do not want to derail or devolve this thread into an LCD vs OLED back and forth but feel it is pertinent to the discussion and reasoning for me still choosing to go with the Z9F 65" regardless of some of the "shortcomings" identified by some. In a nutshell, after reading all the posts and available information, I tend to agree with the lengthy post by mzupeman on page 51 and thomasfxlt's way of looking at the Z9F as well. Maybe my opinion will change in a few short hours when I'm judging for myself with my own eyes, so we'll certainly see. Here is my background info:

We originally purchased a 930E that we promptly returned because of several dead pixels right in the center upper half of the screen so we then exchanged it for an LG 55" C7P from Best Buy last year in August as our primary viewing TV for our family room. The picture has been beautiful, defined, and colorful with great blacks and gray / shadow handling (especially with 4K movies and streaming content), although motion processing could be a little better and it have been nice to be brighter in a room that can be both bright and dark, but now less than a year later it has noticeable burn-in and color banding with certain content and color shades on the screen. OLED light and Contrast settings are nowhere near maximum (80) and brightness set to 50. As a family of four, we view a variety of content including DVD / Blu-ray / 4K movies, broadcast TV and streaming content, and even some Playstation gaming. I do watch a certain cable TV news channel pretty regularly which is what is most prominently being retained and burned into the screen (logo and info bar at the bottom) but again, we do use it for a variety of other content regularly. I am also seeing noticeable color banding in certain scenes / under certain conditions that were not there before, both horizontally and vertically. I guess the fact that it took almost a year for these issues to become noticeable and to show up to varying degrees is telling of the variety of use we put it through, but it seems any content that you view frequently (news channels, games with areas of the screen that change little if any, etc) and just regular wear and tear on the OLED can be taxing on the pixels and screen in general, and will at one point or another yield similar results as I see others mentioning similar issues on other websites and A/V forum searches. I can also somewhat notice a difference in the overall brightness of the screen and "pop" of the colors under the same lighting and viewing conditions as I recall a year ago using the same settings. LG claims 100,000 hours of use before overall brightness would be half of what it originally was when new, but now I don't believe it. Between all of us, we use it about 10 hours per day on average and some days for days at a time has gotten no use while away on vacations and just life happening. Mind you that the unit has a screen shift and pixel refresh function that runs automatically after 4 hours of constant use after being shut off or can be performed manually, which I have done periodically before and after the issue appearing with no improvement of the symptoms.

Fortunately for us I purchased the 4 year extended warranty from Magnolia / Best Buy and would never buy any video unit in this price range without it because it explicitly covers burn in and other issues and defects that LG either seems to deny or tend to not cover as "not typical use" or based on "viewing habits". I contacted Best Buy Magnolia support and they sent a tech out that confirmed my issues, and while there evidently LG provided him with a "service bulletin" procedure to perform that after completed would take up to 45 DAYS to address the issue. Both the tech and I found this to be utterly ridiculous so I addressed it with the Magnolia store manager. He advised that per the extended warranty terms they have up to 30 days to repair it otherwise they have to replace the unit or refund the value of the unit. Since the C7P has already been replaced with a C8 model a few months back the store manger agreed that after the 30 day attempt time period (we all know it is not just going to go away) he would refund me our original purchase price. The tech documented this in the service notes as we were all on speakerphone discussing the issue.

This was back on 7/28 and once I was able to confirm the Z9F was coming, Magnolia management allowed me to keep using the C7 until I get a replacement and put a preorder in for the Z9F. Considering we are not going to change our viewing and use habits to accommodate the OLED’s unfortunate technical shortcomings, I was pretty reluctant to go with a newer C8 LG OLED or any OLED for that matter as the likelihood of us running into the same issue is concerning even though the C8 SUPPOSEDLY has “better” resistance to burn-in and the other issues we have experienced with ours along with a better processor. One thing is for sure, they must be having more than expected issues with the OLEDs because the protection plans have gone up in price considerably since I bought last year.

I'm looking forward to getting the Z9F setup later so I can see it for myself because of all the "pros" already mentioned that are ideal for our viewing/use and sectional seating, and the "cons" seem like they will be either minor or irrelevant to us. Mind you, I'm not anywhere near the extreme enthusiast or professionals some are here regarding calibrations, measurements, terminology, and the like, but I do consider myself a "techie" person so I do understand and consider many of the more technical points of view and perspectives. This goes back to my agreement with mzupeman though. Sometimes all the technical and nitpick discussions can dissuade people from considering a TV that will be a homerun for their given use and circumstance so I take all opinions and even measured technical specs with a grain of salt. I will certainly try and provide my best impression from a not overly technical point of view on how happy I am with it by probably sometime tomorrow to get some time with the TV first with a variety of content. I will be running the TV connected to a Denon 3400H which has eARC support and using an Oppo UPD-203 player for 4K and other disc content.

Last edited by Dtech114; 09-22-2018 at 08:33 AM.
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post #1557 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 08:50 AM
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Which is why I am looking forward in CES next year. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif[/IMG]


And the next year, and the next and then the year after that.....


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Buy when your ready to upgrade! My time table to upgrade is mid January so I can wait to see what CES 19 will offer and I’m not banking on another late summer aug surprise from Sony! So it’s 75inch Z9D/F or CES19 big surprise! I’m particularly partial to the Z9F right now. Aside from your info Thomas and Marc’s info. Other info and impressions are tough to get right now it’s slow going for me!
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post #1558 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 09:00 AM
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These two posts resonate with me. I had cataract surgery late last year. Prior to that, I was seeing halos around bright lights, especially noticeable when driving at night or when I looked at a bright point of light such as a streetlamp. While this has improved with surgery, it has not disappeared completely. As a result, when I see a bright spot next to the black bars, I still see what looks like light bleed into the bars, but it is difficult to attribute the effect to the display or to my vision. It is something that I have become used to, which is why light bleed into black bars is not high on my list of how to evaluate a display (no disrespect, @djoberg ). I am much more interested in other display attributes, specifically motion handling and screen uniformity. This is why I have especially appreciated the comments by @thomasfxlt , because the things he likes about the Z9F are exactly what I am looking for. Unless something is revealed in tomorrow's shootout that changes my mind, I will be placing an order for the 75Z9F early next week.
Am very interested in your comparison with your 940D.
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post #1559 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 09:17 AM
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Am very interested in your comparison with your 940D.
Of course. The 940D is headed to the bedroom, replacing a 65X900A that I have sold.
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post #1560 of 7137 Old 09-22-2018, 09:20 AM
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Of course. The 940D is headed to the bedroom, replacing a 65X900A that I have sold.
Looks like we have the same purchasing habits. My 65X900A is hanging in my bedroom! . I still love that TV.
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