Official Sony Master Series Z9F 75/65” Owners Thread (2018/2019) - Page 68 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2011 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Astennu View Post
BTW i find it strange that the ZF9 cores so low on BFI and Stutter the 940E does way better in that regard.
Not strange at all and more the reason to not look at their scores . 60Hz flicker is more effective in reducing motion blur (if a set doesn't have it it will simply get penalized in the score) but also has side effects (on the 940: "It is possible to decrease the X940E's flicker frequency to 60Hz and clear up motion, for those who don't mind visible flicker. "). And this scoring does not take into consideration the workings of X-Motion Clarity at all ...
A good score on stutter is simply a by-product of a poor score on pixel response time (a slow pixel response will lead to a shorter frame hold time)
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I find that extremely distracting.
Of course it is, it was just to show what light bleeding into the black bar area was reminiscent of in a way (on a much lower scale of distraction). You can also adjust the dynamics of it or simply set it to static, incl. a 6500K white (for gaming or action movies it might be something you would use, the dynamic mode)
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post #2012 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 04:55 AM
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You can also adjust the dynamics of it or simply set it to static,
Ambilight is very nice thing. There's a lot of modes and settings to play with. It helps to immerse yourself ...
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post #2013 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 05:10 AM
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TV should be here in about 20 mins.
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post #2014 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mithras1 View Post
Not strange at all and more the reason to not look at their scores . 60Hz flicker is more effective in reducing motion blur (if a set doesn't have it it will simply get penalized in the score) but also has side effects (on the 940: "It is possible to decrease the X940E's flicker frequency to 60Hz and clear up motion, for those who don't mind visible flicker. "). And this scoring does not take into consideration the workings of X-Motion Clarity at all ...
A good score on stutter is simply a by-product of a poor score on pixel response time (a slow pixel response will lead to a shorter frame hold time)

Of course it is, it was just to show what light bleeding into the black bar area was reminiscent of in a way (on a much lower scale of distraction). You can also adjust the dynamics of it or simply set it to static, incl. a 6500K white (for gaming or action movies it might be something you would use, the dynamic mode)
I agree but find that's a lot worse and unrelated to some bar intrusion. I would have no issue with static bias lighting either. What was Phillips thinking?

I had previously noticed that the 900f BFI was only 120hz and had hoped that the ZF would be the same since it seems to solve motion best and is much less flicker intrusive, especially being zonal. Both these sets were significantly downgraded for not having 60hz BFI when in fact, their system is far superior for the purpose intended. Same was true for off axis scoring and rtings said that they will need to change the way they grade after experiencing this set. Both these scores for advancements in the art were particularly low. With more appropriate testing, the set would have had a higher overall score.

This is the problem with rote scoring. The point is to eliminate bias but it can also introduce it due to methodology and it affected a few usage scores as well. Gaming and Sports were especially affected due to the motion score and I don't no if viewing angle is taken into account on some of the other usage scores. Not that you should buy a set off of a review # but it would be right up there with the Vizio PQ on rote score with better testing methodology and even that doesn't matter. It's not about bragging rights. Rationally look at the scores and how derived from an awesome test site. After that, pick your poison. They would be the 1st to tell that their scores are relative to test procedure and personal weighting.

I see these sets relative to how I will use them with a high percentage of cable and sports and realize that a Vizio is currently not for me due to the poor scaling as I'm not interested in work arounds and I REALLY like Sony's Zonal BFI. For others, the Vizio is an awesome set at an even more awesome price. I'm personally a little upset on the lost potential of the current Samsungs. I've been seriously considering the 75 Z9F and 900F but may wait a few months to see what develops on the 900 series. Looks like the new processor is kinda awesome. May just get the Z9F to future proof and be done for a while.

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post #2015 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mithras1 View Post
Not strange at all and more the reason to not look at their scores . 60Hz flicker is more effective in reducing motion blur (if a set doesn't have it it will simply get penalized in the score) but also has side effects (on the 940: "It is possible to decrease the X940E's flicker frequency to 60Hz and clear up motion, for those who don't mind visible flicker. "). And this scoring does not take into consideration the workings of X-Motion Clarity at all ...
A good score on stutter is simply a by-product of a poor score on pixel response time (a slow pixel response will lead to a shorter frame hold time)

Of course it is, it was just to show what light bleeding into the black bar area was reminiscent of in a way (on a much lower scale of distraction). You can also adjust the dynamics of it or simply set it to static, incl. a 6500K white (for gaming or action movies it might be something you would use, the dynamic mode)
Ah thanks for the explanation! that 60Hz mode is useless to dark and the flicker is very visible.
I never use clearness on my 940E. On the other hand for SDR i only need brightness 4. So i could use it there and set it to 8 instead to compensate. but upsclaled HDR peak brightness will be lower.

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post #2016 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 05:17 AM
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I am definitely hoping my experience overall today agrees that numbers don’t mean everything. I have never been so nervous to receive a television before.

Ah, the internet. Ruining happiness around the globe since 1990!
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post #2017 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 05:21 AM
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Who is this person? or does he work for Samsung criticizing the VE Shootout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IohxrUfMeyU
He is a known troll. Just ignore him.
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post #2018 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I am definitely hoping my experience overall today agrees that numbers don’t mean everything. I have never been so nervous to receive a television before.

Ah, the internet. Ruining happiness around the globe since 1990!
The native calibration charts posted by Rtings show a pretty significant mid tone boost. Make sure local dimming is at least set to Medium. I’d set the pic mode to Cinema. If using DV, use DV dark.

Turn off any dynamic range enhancement or contrast boost. In lower APL scenes with some bright elements these thing might actually help (increasing brightness makes the blacks perceptibly darker) but in low APL scenes, they don’t. HDR content does’t need this stuff anyway.

Good luck!

SONY Z9F LCD Master Series Owners Thread
Vizio 2016 P series FAQ, general info and Help
Sony Z9F 75, Vizio P75C1 UHD/HDR/DV, Pioneer Elite SC-95, Samsung UHD Bluray K8500, AppleTV 4K, CC Ultra

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post #2019 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 06:10 AM
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Ok just setting to Cinema and reducing the soap opera nonsense, first impression is the image looks good. Zone count is definitely 13 x 8. And it’s BRIGHT. I gotta turn this thing down a bit lol.
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post #2020 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 06:16 AM
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Ok just setting to Cinema and reducing the soap opera nonsense, first impression is the image looks good. Zone count is definitely 13 x 8. And it’s BRIGHT. I gotta turn this thing down a bit lol.

And you have the whole day to play around with it (and post about it)! Bright is one of the reasons I was considering stepping up from the 900F.
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post #2021 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 06:19 AM
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Gray bars are real when the in-bars image is bright but at least right now - my room is quite dark but not night time dark - it isn’t bothering me. Im paying more attention to the in-bars image and the contrast THERE looks great.

This is from testing the opening scene of Alien Covenant by the way.
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post #2022 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 07:30 AM
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Figures don't lie . There's no way to avoid poor native contrast limitation.
Oh boy, yes they do! They can be made to do some amazing tricks on behalf of disingenuousness! It's like these days saying that a photo tells the truth!

I agree with the second part, except that even Rtings admitted they need to update their testing there as the criteria doesn't account for this sort of situation.
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post #2023 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 07:35 AM
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Alright so I had a bit of stupidity in all my excitement.

Yeah, the television looks pretty impressive out of the box but it's supposed to. However, I was coming across some scenes that were dim that basically made all of the blacks looks pretty much gray and the actual contrast look poor. I was in 'oh crap, this HAS to go back' mode.

I, um, hadn't adjusted the brightness yet. It defaults at 35 out of the box which is pretty high up on Sony's 'brightness' scale. I am not using RTINGS settings for calibration whatsoever... I simply set this tv to Cinema and have at it, which I said I'd do, at least at first. It looked great in many aspects but anytime there was a nice white box on the TV from an app like Youtube or something, it was eye-searing. Well, RTINGS I noticed had brightness adjusted to 2 for their calibration and also recommended 10 for medium lit settings. I brought the brightness wayyyyyy down and now this television is looking pretty great... like, actually. Yeah, you can tell there's some concessions made but it's not bothering me, at least not yet.

I'm going to continue to test and tweak content, and I'll report periodically.

More impressions to follow.

Oh, by the way... uniformity...

I haven't run any test patterns for it but when you're sitting at an input selection on the Z9F without anything being fed through HDMI, the default screen is gray. I see no DSE there. At all. I fired up my Xbox One and saw no DSE in the green Xbox logo screen as it booted, nor in the gray background behind the icons like I had seen on my Vizio. I also don't see any on my Nintendo Switch startup screen, which was also a notorious 'yep, I see it' moment in my home.

I've been using Alien Covenant as my current test for contrast, by the way. I'm going to try some SDR content, some South Park in HD for seeing how the color is, and some gaming.
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post #2024 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 07:39 AM
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It’s 8pm and I never got the call from Magnolia about my time window for tomorrow. I called the store and they told me to contact the sales guy. It’s his day off though.

Ahhhhh this is going to be a fun 24 hours I suppose.
Hopefully they have it in stock........

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I paid for my 75-inch ZF9 in full yesterday. I'm in the UK.

Still no indication of when I'll get it though?
Never understood why dealers require payment in full. You can always cancel unless you sign some type of agreement saying you will not cancel.

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All this negative talk about the Z9F... maybe that will translate into hefty discounts by Christmas or Black Friday weekend ...
That's the AVS way This is still a great set, if anyone want to throw away there Z9F let me know I will come and grab it
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post #2025 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 07:43 AM
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Alright so I had a bit of stupidity in all my excitement.

Yeah, the television looks pretty impressive out of the box but it's supposed to. However, I was coming across some scenes that were dim that basically made all of the blacks looks pretty much gray and the actual contrast look poor. I was in 'oh crap, this HAS to go back' mode.

I, um, hadn't adjusted the brightness yet. It defaults at 35 out of the box which is pretty high up on Sony's 'brightness' scale. I am not using RTINGS settings for calibration whatsoever... I simply set this tv to Cinema and have at it, which I said I'd do, at least at first. It looked great in many aspects but anytime there was a nice white box on the TV from an app like Youtube or something, it was eye-searing. Well, RTINGS I noticed had brightness adjusted to 2 for their calibration and also recommended 10 for medium lit settings. I brought the brightness wayyyyyy down and now this television is looking pretty great... like, actually. Yeah, you can tell there's some concessions made but it's not bothering me, at least not yet.

I'm going to continue to test and tweak content, and I'll report periodically.

More impressions to follow.

Oh, by the way... uniformity...

I haven't run any test patterns for it but when you're sitting at an input selection on the Z9F without anything being fed through HDMI, the default screen is gray. I see no DSE there. At all. I fired up my Xbox One and saw no DSE in the green Xbox logo screen as it booted, nor in the gray background behind the icons like I had seen on my Vizio. I also don't see any on my Nintendo Switch startup screen, which was also a notorious 'yep, I see it' moment in my home.

I've been using Alien Covenant as my current test for contrast, by the way. I'm going to try some SDR content, some South Park in HD for seeing how the color is, and some gaming.
Cool! Thanks for the report, and adventures/misadventures!

I'd love to test SDR with Adventure Time (on blu, not broadcast - world of difference). That one's great for flat colour. And heh, Covenant darkness. I worked on it, and usually you're used to things being overlit for the camera (or fx, grading etc). On that one we were all worried because you could barely see anything while filming sometimes. The camera got it all though. They're pretty amazing these days. Back to topic...
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post #2026 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 08:12 AM
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I have a bunch of Adventure Time on Blu. Ill let you know. South Park looked great though.
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post #2027 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 08:26 AM
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I have a bunch of Adventure Time on Blu. Ill let you know. South Park looked great though.
👍!
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post #2028 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 08:56 AM
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^^ Exactly. Dark room, dead center here. 80-90% movies in almost pitch black. Gonna need to see the 75 in person.

That is a brutal contrast number on that 65...



I cannot believe how fast that 65’s panel is though. Killer gaming panel.


Z9F does appear to be a great gamers TV. It also gets bright enough for HDR to really make games pop. However, I wish Sony supported VRR, maybe in the future?
But the Achilles heel is the contrast ratio and that’s what’s holding me back from buying one now. I’m researching the A9F but burn in really has me concerned.


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post #2029 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 08:58 AM
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TV should be here in about 20 mins.


HDR gaming impressions please, post pics if you can.


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post #2030 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 09:09 AM
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TV should be here in about 20 mins.


HDR gaming impressions please, post pics if you can.


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Pics will not do any favors in my environmwnt but God of War looks freakin’ amazing. I was not prepared for that level of color saturation and brightness coming from my old Vizio.

So after more tweaking I realized Sony’s much like my Vizio will save settings based on SDR and HDR. So HDR I have at max brightness and SDR is at 10. Going to stream a little Dolby Vision soon and try and dial that in.
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post #2031 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Pics will not do any favors in my environmwnt but God of War looks freakin’ amazing. I was not prepared for that level of color saturation and brightness coming from my old Vizio.

So after more tweaking I realized Sony’s much like my Vizio will save settings based on SDR and HDR. So HDR I have at max brightness and SDR is at 10. Going to stream a little Dolby Vision soon and try and dial that in.
Glad we’re getting some gaming feedback!

SONY Z9F LCD Master Series Owners Thread
Vizio 2016 P series FAQ, general info and Help
Sony Z9F 75, Vizio P75C1 UHD/HDR/DV, Pioneer Elite SC-95, Samsung UHD Bluray K8500, AppleTV 4K, CC Ultra
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post #2032 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 09:31 AM
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Response time while gaming does feel good.

Adventure Time is very nice in SDR HD. He blacks are much bolder than South Park’s in general. So it definitely stands out. The colors are very rich and appropriately bright.
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post #2033 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 09:54 AM
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Response time while gaming does feel good.

Adventure Time is very nice in SDR HD. He blacks are much bolder than South Park’s in general. So it definitely stands out. The colors are very rich and appropriately bright.
Awesome! Great to hear about the response time for gaming. If you guys want I can record some games running on my 65 with my Note 8 and post vids here. I know it won't do it justice but it's something.
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post #2034 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 10:00 AM
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I was just watching the sunrise in Sea of Thieves on my Xbox One X. That’s... something people need to see. Wow.
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post #2035 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 10:04 AM
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I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to hear reports from actual owners of the set that are so positive.
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post #2036 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 10:19 AM
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I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to hear reports from actual owners of the set that are so positive.

Except now I am wondering if I want to spend the money for the nits.
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post #2037 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 10:23 AM
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However, I was coming across some scenes that were dim that basically made all of the blacks looks pretty much gray and the actual contrast look poor. I was in 'oh crap, this HAS to go back' mode.
It would be interesting to hear more about it. And about blooming/cinema bars in movies.
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post #2038 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 11:13 AM
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It's definitely a bright set. When watching HDR10 with the Brightness set at max, the television seems to handle perceptive contrast very well. I can tell that the black bars aren't as deep and inky as they would be on something like the Q9FN. I'm astonished, actually, that SDR has to be dialed in to 10 while HDR10 looks fantastic at max. Dolby Vision also looks fairly bright on a low brightness... I can't imagine cranking that mode up (it was streaming from VUDU).



And there's definitely light bleeding into the bars when there's bright content near them. I tried to get a picture, but what I captured does not reflect how it actually looks in person. But yeah, I understand what the OP meant before when it looks great most of the time but once in a while it may show up in a negative way if in a dark environment... and my environment is dark. I was able to use the TV box to cover about 3/4 of the egress window in my basement here so... fairly dark. Tonight will be the true test. If the blooming is something you're extremely sensitive to, I guess don't get the Z9F, but it's not as bad as the hyperbole police have tried to make people believe without seeing it for themselves.



With ACTUAL CONTENT, I'll say it's not really all that bad... it treats overlay stuff it seemingly doesn't anticipate too well though. With my Sony X800, when I pause a movie and the icon appears in the bottom left hand corner to confirm I've paused the film, the bloom there is absolutely awful. It. Lights. Up. Big time. That's because of the maximum brightness cranked up for HDR10, of course. But I'm not actually getting that kind of bloom while doing torture test stuff from The Matrix, Alien Covenant, etc. Bloom/bleed, yes, but it's honestly comparable to what I've had with my 2016 M Series Vizio.



Before you freak out about that, though, the Sony chip really does seem to handle blooming in a better way than my old TV did. For example, when playing Cuphead, you get a loading screen that's not gray but not exactly black either, has simulated old-school animation film grain caked on, and a hand drawn hourglass figure jumping in the bottom right hand corner. I used to see a very large light halo around that hourglass on my old Vizio... but not so on the Z9F. It blends in very well with the rest of the picture, as is appropriate. The television's processing really seems to be holding the brunt of the weight here in regards to contrast... and it does a damn good job, all things considered when it comes to the measured specs.



When I first booted up Sea of Thieves on my Xbox One X and saw the opening map scroll cinematic, I thought I could detect what could have possibly been a HINT of DSE... but it came and went so fast that I can't tell if it was the game and how the cinematic looked or if it was the television. I've been looking at stuff that screamed DSE on my old Vizio and still can't really find any issues whatsoever. Another torture test compared to my old TV was a scene where Charlie Brown's sister in the Peanut's Movie was on stage... that green curtain in the background wreaked havoc on my old set, but not here. The challenge temples in Zelda: Breath of the Wild was another 'oh my god I HATE this' thing in regards to DSE on my old set... clean on the Z9F.



So there's positives and negatives to this set... it seems to do what it wants to do quite well and you can throw it a curveball on occasion that makes it behave in a shocking and negative way, but yeah, actual content seems to be fine once you fine tune the settings to your liking for SDR and HDR. Personally, the brighter nits and better HDR and having wide color really makes this television a world of difference from my Vizio. Gaming is responsive and just looks bonkers too, and I'm not seeing too many negatives while sampling stuff from 4K HDR films.



So I've done dark content with contrast, I've seen mostly white imagery with dark contrast laced throughout, I've seen CGI animation, solid animation (South Park, Adventure Time), I've seen some games... not a bad day so far, all in all. Might take a break to mow the lawn. Boo.
mzupeman is offline  
post #2039 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 11:34 AM
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Hey y’all. Been following this thread for a while and I’m glad to hear more positive hands on impressions. Now if we could just figure out what the deal is with the 75 and magnolia. Recall, no recall, stall tactic, what’s the deal??
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post #2040 of 5641 Old 09-27-2018, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzupeman View Post
I was just watching the sunrise in Sea of Thieves on my Xbox One X. That’s... something people need to see. Wow.
How is the DSE in Sea of Thieves specifically when panning the camera across the sky?
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