Official Sony Master Series Z9F 75/65” Owners Thread (2018/2019) - Page 79 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 4139Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2341 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
thomasfxlt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,983
Mentioned: 122 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3322 Post(s)
Liked: 6165
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Thanks for posting this. What is the LED PFS Phosphor? Is that something to do with the display properties of the Z9F?

Seems like the C6 HDR2000 is the way to go for me, especially since I don’t know how to profile a meter. I am willing to pay a little extra money to be able to have a solution that produces good results with my limited expertise. And to have a meter that measures more than 1000 nits and can perform an HDR calibration is a definite plus. I am relieved that a separate pattern generator is not required, although I am still not clear on how the CalMAN software generates the patterns.
It’s the LED type, so yes, a property of the panel.

The CalMan workflows are very easy to follow and generate patterns.

The only thing we’ll need in addition, as @shoman94 reminded me, is a way to do HDR10. DV works directly from the PC to the display but you need something like an HD Fury to do HDR10 (which is annoying but apparently the case).

SONY Z9F LCD Master Series Owners Thread
Vizio 2016 P series FAQ, general info and Help
Sony Z9F 75, Vizio P75C1 UHD/HDR/DV, Pioneer Elite SC-95, Samsung UHD Bluray K8500, AppleTV 4K, CC Ultra
thomasfxlt is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2342 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 03:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
shoman94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,207
Mentioned: 203 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5071 Post(s)
Liked: 3581
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasfxlt View Post
It’s the LED type, so yes, a property of the panel.

The CalMan workflows are very easy to follow and generate patterns.

The only thing we’ll need in addition, as @shoman94 reminded me, is a way to do HDR10. DV works directly from the PC to the display but you need something like an HD Fury to do HDR10 (which is annoying but apparently the case).
I'm not sure DV will work directly with the PC this time. If they require something to trigger it like LG does then you'll need a separate device as well.
For the amateur calibrator I would only do SDR and let HDR10 and DV be transferred at this point.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
shoman94 is offline  
post #2343 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 03:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
shoman94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,207
Mentioned: 203 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5071 Post(s)
Liked: 3581
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Thanks for posting this. What is the LED PFS Phosphor? Is that something to do with the display properties of the Z9F?
.
https://products.currentbyge.com/sit...Whitepaper.pdf

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
shoman94 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2344 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 03:13 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,862
Mentioned: 391 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11302 Post(s)
Liked: 6706
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
I'm not sure DV will work directly with the PC this time. If they require something to trigger it like LG does then you'll need a separate device as well.
For the amateur calibrator I would only do SDR and let HDR10 and DV be transferred at this point.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
https://products.currentbyge.com/sit...Whitepaper.pdf

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
I agree-doing SDR only at this time sounds more straight-forward. Over time, how to do the DV and HDR10 will become more clear. And thanks for the link.

I am getting excited about doing a calibration on this set!
shoman94 likes this.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #2345 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 03:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
js950's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 767
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 433 Post(s)
Liked: 298
I think the 6500k bias light thing is way overstated. Who has a perfectly white wall behind their panel?
js950 is offline  
post #2346 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 03:42 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,862
Mentioned: 391 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11302 Post(s)
Liked: 6706
Quote:
Originally Posted by js950 View Post
I think the 6500k bias light thing is way overstated. Who has a perfectly white wall behind their panel?
Where did you get the “white wall behind the panel” thing?

Do you disagree with this statement?

“Ambient lighting should be of the correct color, as close as possible to CIE D65 (D6500 Kelvins). This specification for white light is more toward the blue end of the visual spectrum, to simulate average north sky daylight at midday. D65 is the reference white point used in correctly calibrated video displays. Typical residential incandescent lighting is much more yellow/red in spectrum and will skew or distort human color perception in a video viewing environment. ”
AustinJerry is offline  
post #2347 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 04:07 PM
Advanced Member
 
Matsonia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 721
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 480 Post(s)
Liked: 364
He mentioned the white wall behind the panel thing because that also has an effect on the colour you will get from the Bias lighting so even getting Bias lighting that's D65 it may still not be accurate. Many have different coloured walls behind the panel which will effect it.
Matsonia is offline  
post #2348 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 04:38 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,862
Mentioned: 391 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11302 Post(s)
Liked: 6706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsonia View Post
He mentioned the white wall behind the panel thing because that also has an effect on the colour you will get from the Bias lighting so even getting Bias lighting that's D65 it may still not be accurate. Many have different coloured walls behind the panel which will effect it.
I agree, but just because the wall isn’t white doesn’t mean that the bias lighting shouldn’t be 6500K. IOW, why make it even worse? And I suspect some wall colors could be worse than others. For example, a gray wall may actually be better than a white wall.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #2349 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 04:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
Matsonia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 721
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 480 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Very true. It will still most likely be the most accurate but your speaking to a guy who uses multi coloured bias lighting a lot lol.
Matsonia is offline  
post #2350 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 04:54 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,862
Mentioned: 391 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11302 Post(s)
Liked: 6706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsonia View Post
Very true. It will still most likely be the most accurate but your speaking to a guy who uses multi coloured bias lighting a lot lol.
Next thing you are going to tell me you like disco music as well.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #2351 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 05:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
js950's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 767
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 433 Post(s)
Liked: 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I agree, but just because the wall isn’t white doesn’t mean that the bias lighting shouldn’t be 6500K. IOW, why make it even worse? And I suspect some wall colors could be worse than others. For example, a gray wall may actually be better than a white wall.
How is a green or blue wall even close to 6500k? You do not see the light, you see a lit up wall. What's interesting is that by using a color spectrum light, you may actually get closer by counteracting the wall color. If the wall is blue, use less blue light and more red and green until you get white. I suspect colored backlighting will have a similar effect on the picture color as bias lighting does on blacks but to a much smaller extent. I should patent this stuff, LOL.

If I get backlighting for my next set, I'll put a single strip of kinda close to 6500k across the middle back and call it a day. It's far from an exact science and a little goes a long way.

Last edited by js950; 10-02-2018 at 05:22 PM.
js950 is offline  
post #2352 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 05:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
kinglm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,009
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked: 296
kinglm is offline  
post #2353 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 05:44 PM
Member
 
kee68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Wonder Lake,
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
You should look at Ideal-Lume by Cinemaquest:

https://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm

It is critical that the bias lighting be 6500 kelvin (and not one of the variable-color lighting strips). The Ideal-Lume has a rotating baffle over the light tube that allows you to dial-in the overall brightness of the bias lighting. And You can purchase a power strip that turns the bias lighting off and on when it senses the TV power going off or on. I have three lights, on top and both sides of the back of the flat panel.

Jerry,how did you order your Lume to get 3 lights.I didn't see that option. Thx much
kee68 is offline  
post #2354 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 05:59 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,862
Mentioned: 391 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11302 Post(s)
Liked: 6706
Quote:
Originally Posted by kee68 View Post
Jerry,how did you order your Lume to get 3 lights.I didn't see that option. Thx much
I ordered three individual “Panelite’s”. Mounted them one across the top and two down each side. They plug into a power strip that senses when the TV is powered off and on (also available from Cinemaquest).
AustinJerry is offline  
post #2355 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 06:19 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,862
Mentioned: 391 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11302 Post(s)
Liked: 6706
Example. Note pitch black bars.

AustinJerry is offline  
post #2356 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 07:16 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
Industry Insider
 
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 24,558
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6674 Post(s)
Liked: 6670
Cleveland Plasma is offline  
post #2357 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 07:42 PM
Advanced Member
 
howardstern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 507
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Liked: 86
I'm confused in a couple areas about the Z9F. Why is all the "elevated blacks" talk limited to the cinema bars? Is there no blooming in the image itself? Does the panel have inky blacks with no blooming or haloing except for flashlighting into the bars? It would stand to reason that the way the algorithm controls the dimming with bright objects near black would be consistent screen-wide. However, if it is limited to only the bars then it sounds like excuse making for Sony to give them a pass for not incorporating a feature that relative budget TV's utilize by disabling those areas of the screen.

Secondly, with so many people seeming accepting of the serious flashlighting because "this is the trade-off with having a television that will get this bright" philosophy, then why can't the same logic be applied like, risk of burn-in or some loss of shadow detail with OLED is "the trade off for having 8 million zones and infinite black levels to produce a television that can get this dark?"

Forget that they named it "The Master Series" and the lofty anticipations surrounding the title ...It's simply what any discerning purchaser would expect from a "flagship" after waiting 2+ years on a "D" replacement that handles blacks significantly better.
New24K likes this.

Hey Now!
howardstern is offline  
post #2358 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 07:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mzupeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,482
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Example. Note pitch black bars. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Excellent film choice.
mzupeman is offline  
post #2359 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 08:16 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,862
Mentioned: 391 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11302 Post(s)
Liked: 6706
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzupeman View Post
Excellent film choice.
You mean “the Endless”? Not sure if it was my favorite film that I have watched recently...
AustinJerry is offline  
post #2360 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 08:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
js950's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 767
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 433 Post(s)
Liked: 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by howardstern View Post
I'm confused in a couple areas about the Z9F. Why is all the "elevated blacks" talk limited to the cinema bars? Is there no blooming in the image itself? Does the panel have inky blacks with no blooming or haloing except for flashlighting into the bars? It would stand to reason that the way the algorithm controls the dimming with bright objects near black would be consistent screen-wide. However, if it is limited to only the bars then it sounds like excuse making for Sony to give them a pass for not incorporating a feature that relative budget TV's utilize by disabling those areas of the screen.

Secondly, with so many people seeming accepting of the serious flashlighting because "this is the trade-off with having a television that will get this bright" philosophy, then why can't the same logic be applied like, risk of burn-in or some loss of shadow detail with OLED is "the trade off for having 8 million zones and infinite black levels to produce a television that can get this dark?"

Forget that they named it "The Master Series" and the lofty anticipations surrounding the title ...It's simply what any discerning purchaser would expect from a "flagship" after waiting 2+ years on a "D" replacement that handles blacks significantly better.
Because burn in, DSE and banding are permanent? Hardly the same thing .

As for the picture itself, it was within the margin of error for 1st place with the OLEDs at the shoot out and in picture blacks appear to be very good. Not really sure how they pull that off. there's a bit of blooming on subtitles on the 65 and probably less so on the 75. Oh well, nothing is perfect. Color, brightness, scaling/processing, DSE and viewing angle are all better than the Z9D and in picture blacks look the same in shots I've seen. Z9F has more blooming. That's 5-1 but I do understand how that 1 will be the biggest issue for some. For others, not so much and to continue spinning this about only one aspect is viewing the set through tunnel vision. The set is so comprehensive, it might even have a setting for that.
shoman94 and thomasfxlt like this.
js950 is offline  
post #2361 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 09:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Brahmzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,193
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 690 Post(s)
Liked: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
@mzupeman , very nice write-up. For potential owners like myself, there are two questions to ask: first, is it better than what I have now (75x940D), and second, are there alternative purchases that would be potentially better (say a 75Z9D, if available). I am pretty sure the Z9F will be a step up from the 940D, and I am still holding fast on my decision not to go with the Z9D. Hopefully, I will know soon.
Not so sure this is better than my 940D as far as FALD and contrast performance. In fact it sounds like it’s worse. I’ve got ridiculous inky blacks on my 940D and very little blooming. No it’s not as bright as the newer sets, but it’s HDR performance is still jaw dropping at times. To me, FALD / black bar performance and contrast are top of my list of what’s “better” - they may not be yours.

HTPC | NAS | Harmony Elite | DENON X4200W | Sony XBR75X940D
Philips BDP7501 | Klipsch RF7II, RC64II, CDT5650CII | SVS SB2000 x2
Brahmzy is offline  
post #2362 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 09:40 PM
** Man of Leisure **
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 20,862
Mentioned: 391 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11302 Post(s)
Liked: 6706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
Not so sure this is better than my 940D as far as FALD and contrast performance. In fact it sounds like it’s worse. I’ve got ridiculous inky blacks on my 940D and very little blooming. No it’s not as bright as the newer sets, but it’s HDR performance is still jaw dropping at times. To me, FALD / black bar performance and contrast are top of my list of what’s “better” - they may not be yours.
We have known each other long enough that you know I like the 940D as well. But some, like Djoberg, have found fault with the 940D black bar performance. So you and I think it performs well, and he thinks it doesn’t, so who is correct? Similarly, we have Thomasfxlt saying the Z9F black bar performance is fine, and others say it isn’t. So who is right?

In my case, black bar performance is not as important as it is to others. The Netflix calibrated mode, the auto cal, the 20-point grayscale, the inclusion of a CMS (a Sony first), the increase from 96 zones (on the 940D) to close to 300 on the Z9F, support for Dolby Vision, and higher display brightness for HDR, are all features that make the Z9F seem like a step up to me. Just sayin’....
MISTRV, gomo657, shoman94 and 1 others like this.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #2363 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 10:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Brahmzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,193
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 690 Post(s)
Liked: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
We have known each other long enough that you know I like the 940D as well. But some, like Djoberg, have found fault with the 940D black bar performance. So you and I think it performs well, and he thinks it doesn’t, so who is correct? Similarly, we have Thomasfxlt saying the Z9F black bar performance is fine, and others say it isn’t. So who is right?

In my case, black bar performance is not as important as it is to others. The Netflix calibrated mode, the auto cal, the 20-point grayscale, the inclusion of a CMS (a Sony first), the increase from 96 zones (on the 940D) to close to 300 on the Z9F, support for Dolby Vision, and higher display brightness for HDR, are all features that make the Z9F seem like a step up to me. Just sayin’....
I get it - lots of new features and great processing - I want them too.
I wish I’da just bit the bullet a year ago and gotten the 75xZ9D. At this point it’s a 2yr old TV. Still one if, if not, the best though.
The 940D does an amazing job with its 96 zones - far better than what I’ve seen from the 900Fs I’ve seen in multiple sizes.
Could be the higher-nit trade-off.
I’ll give the Z9F some good, long dark room demos whenever the dang things come available.
AustinJerry likes this.

HTPC | NAS | Harmony Elite | DENON X4200W | Sony XBR75X940D
Philips BDP7501 | Klipsch RF7II, RC64II, CDT5650CII | SVS SB2000 x2
Brahmzy is offline  
post #2364 of 5661 Old 10-02-2018, 11:27 PM
Member
 
dalejoel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I got my 65" Z9F today.
Coming from a 10 year old Samsung LCD... I am very happy.
I see some blooming but nothing that bothers me at all.

Holy cow it's been a long time for me getting a new tv. This set makes me feel like I've never watched a television before. I turned on my PS4 and instantly the menus looked so different. The colors weren't even in the same realm. So much better. Driveclub on this tv is out of this world.

Black levels, totally fine for my tastes.

I'll be playing with it more but this is a keeper so far.
sk373 and Izzy Snow like this.
dalejoel is offline  
post #2365 of 5661 Old 10-03-2018, 01:01 AM
Member
 
leamingtonspacem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by js950 View Post
I think the 6500k bias light thing is way overstated. Who has a perfectly white wall behind their panel?
I use bias lighting and my wall is a very mild cream colour.

I can tell you in all honesty that it makes a MASSIVE difference with my 65-inch Panasonic plasma. Blacks go BLACK with it on.

I'll be using it on my 75 ZF9.
AustinJerry likes this.
leamingtonspacem is offline  
post #2366 of 5661 Old 10-03-2018, 01:30 AM
Senior Member
 
Astennu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 252
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzupeman View Post
With more time with the television, I feel like the light bleed is most likely worse than most every television out there… but for me, it isn’t bad. Most of the time the light just feels like an extension of the bright light source that’s causing that part of the screen to bloom/bleed in the first place. There are times where very small but bright objects can light up a large zone in the bar though, and THAT’S when it becomes most noticeable. Otherwise, I’m pretty content with what I’ve been seeing.

Why does the screen light up like this? I definitely think it’s a result of that layer that’s refracting light in the panel.

Speaking of which, I finally did some viewing from the side last night. The viewing angle is actually really impressive, I must say. I sat on the other side of my sectional sofa, I guess at about 45 degrees from center. Bright areas never looked washed out and the colors remained well saturated. I always used to be disappointed that my wife, who usually sits on that side of the couch while we’re watching a movie (she likes to sort of lay down a bit), wouldn’t be getting the full effect of whatever film we were watching… but I feel much better knowing that she’s actually going to get a much better representation now. Also, if I have guests over for a movie night, I usually let them sit in front of the television and I sit off to the side and take the visual quality loss. So, this will benefit me in the long run as well.

Anyway, back to contrast. The screen is perceptibly black when it doesn’t have to get very bright. So, basically that means SDR content as long as it’s calibrated reasonably appropriately and the brightness isn’t cranked. In HDR mode however, you can tell the black level is elevated some. The screen really only ‘disappears’ in a dark room when there’s nothing on it. Otherwise, you’re going to notice that the cinema bars are brighter than on other sets. Even so, while watching actual content, the contrast between the blacks as they’re displayed and everything else is really good. Sony’s processing does a pretty darn good job of trying to keep those bars as black as possible. You get the bad flashlighting in the bars when there’s a particular thing lighting that portion of the screen… but if the screen is uniformly bright, they don’t remain ‘lit up’, they actually appear black. It’s honestly impressive considering what the alleged native contrast ratio of this television is. When you turn FALD algorithm off entirely (which I did just for kicks), it’s almost embarrassing how bad it looks… but nobody uses a FALD set without the FALD algorithm on soooo… yeah. When it’s on, pretty impressive.
What i currently do with my 940E after the DV update is use Black level 49 or even 48 instead of 50 when the screen lights up and blacks are not that black. And that helps a lot. I understand its not 100% referenced anymore but the blacks and the bars are much darker now.
Never had to do that before the DV update but after i had the feeling some blacks are a bit more elevated and more adjacent zones are activated. Anyway lowering the black level a little bit helped a lot.

Some movies are also brighter then others and do not have deep black but are alway's a bit more grey. Then you would need 46 to get it black but thats not how it was inentend to i tend to keep it at 49 for now.

HT Setup: Sony 75X940E - Denon X4400W 5.2.4: - SVS Ultra Bookshelf (Front) - SVS Ultra Center - SVS Prime Bookshelf (surround) - 4x Jamo S622 (Height) - Dual SVS PC2000 Sub's
Astennu is offline  
post #2367 of 5661 Old 10-03-2018, 02:45 AM
Senior Member
 
Craig Mecak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 447
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 332 Post(s)
Liked: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astennu View Post
What i currently do with my 940E after the DV update is use Black level 49 or even 48 instead of 50 when the screen lights up and blacks are not that black. And that helps a lot. I understand its not 100% referenced anymore but the blacks and the bars are much darker now.
Never had to do that before the DV update but after i had the feeling some blacks are a bit more elevated and more adjacent zones are activated. Anyway lowering the black level a little bit helped a lot.

Some movies are also brighter then others and do not have deep black but are alway's a bit more grey. Then you would need 46 to get it black but thats not how it was inentend to i tend to keep it at 49 for now.

This is EXACTLY what I have to do with my Z9D since the DV update. My DV blacks are dark grey. Letterbox bars are grey. In HDR10 they were/are fine. Also, there appears to be worse blooming into the letterbox bars with DV. It's almost like the local dimming algorithm is not working correctly when a DV signal is displayed. I wonder if the CPU has run out of horsepower when running in DV mode, and the 600 zones of Local Dimming have to 'dumb down' into blocks of 10 x 10 or something??


Like you, I have been frustrated at the elevated blacks, and so have to turn down black level to 47 or 48 to improve it. I'm then left wondering if I'm crushing low level shadow detail in the actual picture.


I sure hope Sony can fix the DV issues on these sets with improved firmware.

Yamaha RX-A3060 7.1.4 Receiver [+Sony Power Amp for Rear Height] / Sony KD-65Z9D / JVC HD1 DILA Projector / 90" screen / OPPO UDP-203 UHD blu-ray / Apple TV 4K
Ascension Summoner 3-way Front Speakers / Ascension 3-way Centre Speaker / Peachtree D5 Surrounds / Yamaha NS-555 3-Way Rear Speakers / ERA D4 x 4 Height Speakers / Rythmik Audio F15HP Sub
Craig Mecak is online now  
post #2368 of 5661 Old 10-03-2018, 04:49 AM
Advanced Member
 
js950's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 767
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 433 Post(s)
Liked: 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by leamingtonspacem View Post
I use bias lighting and my wall is a very mild cream colour.

I can tell you in all honesty that it makes a MASSIVE difference with my 65-inch Panasonic plasma. Blacks go BLACK with it on.

I'll be using it on my 75 ZF9.
I think you misread my post. I absolutely believe in the positive effects that bias lighting can have. I just don't think that it being exactly 6500k is that big of a deal. The idea of 6500k is that the bias light is color neutral to the set and doesn't affect your perception of the color pallette. Your cream wall negates that even if it's less so than others colored walls yet the effect is still awesome which is what I was getting at. As far as the black bars go, any color light does the trick. It's your perception of the rest that can be affected by having too intense a light at a given color. A little goes a long way and why I said I'd simply use a single white strip across the back and add if needed. I find too strong of bias lighting can be a bit distracting as well. Like most things imperfect, it's going to be a balancing act and subject to individual preference.

Last edited by js950; 10-03-2018 at 05:03 AM.
js950 is offline  
post #2369 of 5661 Old 10-03-2018, 05:12 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mzupeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,482
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by howardstern View Post
I'm confused in a couple areas about the Z9F. Why is all the "elevated blacks" talk limited to the cinema bars? Is there no blooming in the image itself? Does the panel have inky blacks with no blooming or haloing except for flashlighting into the bars? It would stand to reason that the way the algorithm controls the dimming with bright objects near black would be consistent screen-wide. However, if it is limited to only the bars then it sounds like excuse making for Sony to give them a pass for not incorporating a feature that relative budget TV's utilize by disabling those areas of the screen.

Secondly, with so many people seeming accepting of the serious flashlighting because "this is the trade-off with having a television that will get this bright" philosophy, then why can't the same logic be applied like, risk of burn-in or some loss of shadow detail with OLED is "the trade off for having 8 million zones and infinite black levels to produce a television that can get this dark?"

Forget that they named it "The Master Series" and the lofty anticipations surrounding the title ...It's simply what any discerning purchaser would expect from a "flagship" after waiting 2+ years on a "D" replacement that handles blacks significantly better.
There’s blooming in the images themselves, yes. But it’s masked quite well with actual visual context more often than not. If you look at a torch against a black backdrop, then yeah, you’ll see blooming. I don’t really consider that a negative because that happens on a lot of televisions.

And as someone already mentioned, burn-in is permanent. If you watch nothing but filmed content, get an OLED. I’m an avid gamer though so OLED’s aren’t something I’ll even come close to considering.
mzupeman is offline  
post #2370 of 5661 Old 10-03-2018, 05:24 AM
Member
 
leamingtonspacem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by js950 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by leamingtonspacem View Post
I use bias lighting and my wall is a very mild cream colour.

I can tell you in all honesty that it makes a MASSIVE difference with my 65-inch Panasonic plasma. Blacks go BLACK with it on.

I'll be using it on my 75 ZF9.
I think you misread my post. I absolutely believe in the positive effects that bias lighting can have. I just don't think that it being exactly 6500k is that big of a deal. The idea of 6500k is that the bias light is color neutral to the set and doesn't affect your perception of the color pallette. Your cream wall negates that even if it's less so than others colored walls yet the effect is still awesome which is what I was getting at. As far as the black bars go, any color light does the trick. It's your perception of the rest that can be affected by having too intense a light at a given color. A little goes a long way and why I said I'd simply use a single white strip across the back and add if needed. I find too strong of bias lighting can be a bit distracting as well. Like most things imperfect, it's going to be a balancing act and subject to individual preference.
Okay... sorry for the confusion.

The current LED strips on my plasma had no indication that they were of any 'value' so I'm guessing they're not 6500k. However, the effect of them is astounding.

So you might be right... the 6500k figure might not be important?
js950 likes this.
leamingtonspacem is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off