Official Sony Master Series Z9F 75/65” Owners Thread (2018/2019) - Page 93 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2761 of 5661 Old 10-14-2018, 08:31 AM
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Probably less about stopping and more about making larger production orders which take time with a television like this.


I’d agree except for the rumor inventory was pulled back. That’s odd but perhaps not true.
Ah yes, I forgot.

I did ask my guy at Magnolia after receiving my 65”, and he did say the 75’s that Magnolia’s warehouse had were returned so, add that to the bucket of rumor.
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post #2762 of 5661 Old 10-14-2018, 08:42 AM
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This whole thing with the 75s points to Sony finding a problem or deficiency, i'll bet with the power supply on some sets and they decided to change them while they could. It doesn't mean that the sets released have a problem. If they did you would see it. Sometimes they find some in a batch having a problem and they have to go back and screen them out, etc... And we will never really know unless there is a recall on the sold sets
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post #2763 of 5661 Old 10-14-2018, 08:53 AM
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They are both generic PMs used with Autocal. Now I do see a slight difference between Custom and these modes but I can't comment yet because i'm not sure if there is some default processing going on in Custom.
I published this quote earlier from Doug Blackburn's review of the Z9D published in Wide Screen Review: "Custom mode limits peak white to 1,000 nits, and it does not do tone mapping. That makes Custom mode unsuitable for use in HDR mode unless you need to emulate Sony’s HDR mastering monitor."

This seems to imply that there is additional "under the covers" settings affecting at least this picture mode on the Z9D, and perhaps on the Z9F and other displays as well. Again, I wish there were available documentation on this type of behavior so that we could make informed decisions WRT our calibrations.
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post #2764 of 5661 Old 10-14-2018, 08:56 AM
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Not exactly a substantial amount of time to really get into retention and burn issues but, there are plenty of people that DO report having problems. I mean, not much else to say about it. I know it may be rare but I'd be the one boob that actually ends up with burn-in on an OLED.
That is exactly why I do not have an OLED as my main watch TV.

I do have a 55" OLED in the bedroom where it gets very little watch time But too much money for a 77" to gamble on not getting burn-in. So far this year, I have seen four OLEDs with burn-in at Best Buy and Target but I have never seen burn-in on an LCD/LED over the many years I have been watching.

My main set is the Sony 75Z9D which I love.


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post #2765 of 5661 Old 10-14-2018, 09:28 AM
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I just found this it’s only 4 days old
https://youtu.be/vT7bD7UYXWA
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post #2766 of 5661 Old 10-14-2018, 09:50 AM
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They are both generic PMs used with Autocal. Now I do see a slight difference between Custom and these modes but I can't comment yet because i'm not sure if there is some default processing going on in Custom.
I published this quote earlier from Doug Blackburn's review of the Z9D published in Wide Screen Review: "Custom mode limits peak white to 1,000 nits, and it does not do tone mapping. That makes Custom mode unsuitable for use in HDR mode unless you need to emulate Sony’s HDR mastering monitor."

This seems to imply that there is additional "under the covers" settings affecting at least this picture mode on the Z9D, and perhaps on the Z9F and other displays as well. Again, I wish there were available documentation on this type of behavior so that we could make informed decisions WRT our calibrations.
Custom is basically the new cinema mode from what I understand, but this makes sense anyway since selecting certain other picture presets will give you a cooler image overall. Custom is looking pretty darn good to me and I’m getting really nice color and brightness too. Certainly not the eye searing stuff I saw with xtended dynamic rangw on though, but something that the eyes can tolerate in the darkest room.

Still, I’d be interested if anyone who calibrates this television in the future can do these peak brightness measurements from picture mode to picture mode.
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post #2767 of 5661 Old 10-14-2018, 10:00 AM
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Well well well, Sony is making it VERY clear that they're ready to ditch the 65-inch Z9D
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post #2768 of 5661 Old 10-14-2018, 10:05 AM
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Ah yes, I forgot.

I did ask my guy at Magnolia after receiving my 65”, and he did say the 75’s that Magnolia’s warehouse had were returned so, add that to the bucket of rumor.
It's really strange that some online stores aren't even taking pre-orders on the 75-inch. I can't understand why places like Amazon won't even just let people place orders ahead of time and then just ship out when available unless something happened.

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post #2769 of 5661 Old 10-14-2018, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I published this quote earlier from Doug Blackburn's review of the Z9D published in Wide Screen Review: "Custom mode limits peak white to 1,000 nits, and it does not do tone mapping. That makes Custom mode unsuitable for use in HDR mode unless you need to emulate Sony’s HDR mastering monitor."

This seems to imply that there is additional "under the covers" settings affecting at least this picture mode on the Z9D, and perhaps on the Z9F and other displays as well. Again, I wish there were available documentation on this type of behavior so that we could make informed decisions WRT our calibrations.
Right but I believe this has changed on the Z9F and the A9F. Different tone mapping algorithm from what I can tell so far on these new sets.
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post #2770 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 03:04 AM
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Agreed...they are very good but "pitch black" they are not. Particularly after the DV updates. In scene blooming however is vitually non-existent on axis.
Finally im not the only one!
I never had this much black bar activity with my 940E but after the DV updates that started.

The horizontal band's i had caused by dimming where gone after the update but blooming and black bar activity got worse. I hope they will fix it but i guess that will not happen for older moddels.

I think they will now start working on a fix after the ZF9 and all complains about the black bar's and blooming so the 930/940 G moddels might have improvements there but i fear the 940E and ZD9 wont get an update to fix what has been lost.

I do have some hopes that Sony will fix it on the ZF9 if they can.

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post #2771 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 05:21 AM
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I published this quote earlier from Doug Blackburn's review of the Z9D published in Wide Screen Review: "Custom mode limits peak white to 1,000 nits, and it does not do tone mapping. That makes Custom mode unsuitable for use in HDR mode unless you need to emulate Sony’s HDR mastering monitor."

This seems to imply that there is additional "under the covers" settings affecting at least this picture mode on the Z9D, and perhaps on the Z9F and other displays as well. Again, I wish there were available documentation on this type of behavior so that we could make informed decisions WRT our calibrations.
Right but I believe this has changed on the Z9F and the A9F. Different tone mapping algorithm from what I can tell so far on these new sets.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I’d wager you’re right. You mentioned measuring 1600-ish nits at a 10% window post calibration, right?

Following the standard settings last night which excludes xtended dynamix range... I tested some of the hdr from Batman v Superman, Pacific Rim, and John Wick 2 last night. Things were able to plenty bright. Even moreso when I was playing Sea of Thieves on the Xbox One X last night. That sun and some of the colorful glowing objects were still super bright.
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post #2772 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 06:22 AM
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I just found this it’s only 4 days old
https://youtu.be/vT7bD7UYXWA
It's odd that on some test screens, you can see where it gives up some contrast to other top sets but everytime you see a picture of an actual screen shot, it looks to have similar in picture contrast to the OLED and better than the other LCDs without looking odd or artificially processed. I keep thinking the processor is making accurate compensations and why owners are so happy with these sets. The less than black bar thing will be more of an issue for some than others. Maybe take a minute to slap some magnetted black felted boards up and get the best of everything, LOL.
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post #2773 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 06:41 AM
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I still cannot believe after 2 years, Sony's flagship LCD TV replacement is actually worse than the previous generation. Usually, you would expect at the very least small incremental improvements but any improvement made came at the huge detriment of what really matters in picture quality. I am still shaking my head about it as this was the TV I was waiting for. After waiting 10 years to upgrade my 60" Kuro Plasma (to a 75" TV), the best option is to purchase close to a 3 year old TV in the Z9D (77" OLED way too expensive). Goes to show that in the TV business, newer is definitely not guaranteed to be better. I wouldn't even be surprised to find out that the Q9FN successor will end up having fewer zones but go on about its higher peak brightness and processing and other smart features at the expense of contrast. I guess contrast doesn't sell TVs to the general public.
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post #2774 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 07:34 AM
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I still cannot believe after 2 years, Sony's flagship LCD TV replacement is actually worse than the previous generation. Usually, you would expect at the very least small incremental improvements but any improvement made came at the huge detriment of what really matters in picture quality. I am still shaking my head about it as this was the TV I was waiting for. After waiting 10 years to upgrade my 60" Kuro Plasma (to a 75" TV), the best option is to purchase close to a 3 year old TV in the Z9D (77" OLED way too expensive). Goes to show that in the TV business, newer is definitely not guaranteed to be better. I wouldn't even be surprised to find out that the Q9FN successor will end up having fewer zones but go on about its higher peak brightness and processing and other smart features at the expense of contrast. I guess contrast doesn't sell TVs to the general public.
But there are improvements. The Z9F has better motion handling, a better operating system that runs faster, no perceptible dirty screen effect, better input lag response times, and much wider viewing angles. Just because it doesn’t beat out the Z9D in EVERY aspect doesn’t mean it’s an overall worse television. The black levels are fine. Are they as deep and inky as other televisions? The numbers certainly don’t lie, but Sony are, as js950 said above, making ‘accurate compensations’ with the processing… nothing looks amiss in actual real-world content viewing. When I’m watching a movie, I’m not looking at the screen and saying, ‘darn, if only these black levels were richer’. I’ve learned that having X-Tended Dynamic Range cranked on high will make black levels look a bit more elevated, but when not using X-Tended Dynamic Range, there’s really nothing to complain about.

The only real deficiency in this set is that it’s got the lower zone count and of course there’s blooming that goes with it when things are super bright.

I’ll say this: I’m still within my return window, until the 27th. The 65” Z9D is now fifteen hundred dollars less than Z9F… I could easily return the Z9F, get the Z9D and save myself that amount of money. “You should totally do that because the Z9D is awesome!”

But you know what? I’m not going to. Get this: I don’t actually feel compelled to.

I’m happy with my Z9F.

I’m happy with how it tone maps content that’s higher than what it’s natively capable of, I’m happy with black level performance, I’m happy with how the image looks, I’m happy with the operating system, I’m happy with the wide viewing angles, I’m happy with its input lag response times across the board, and I’m especially happy with the lack of dirty screen effect.

At this point, with actual Z9F owners in this thread, to come in and merely look at the contrast ratio and zone count on the television and dismiss the Z9F entirely seems like, ‘hey, you missed the point’. I’m not saying anyone is wrong for preferring the Z9D over the Z9F, but the Z9F is objectively better than the Z9D in certain respects, whereas the Z9D is superior in others.
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post #2775 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 08:18 AM
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But there are improvements. The Z9F has better motion handling, a better operating system that runs faster, no perceptible dirty screen effect, better input lag response times, and much wider viewing angles. Just because it doesn’t beat out the Z9D in EVERY aspect doesn’t mean it’s an overall worse television. The black levels are fine. Are they as deep and inky as other televisions? The numbers certainly don’t lie, but Sony are, as js950 said above, making ‘accurate compensations’ with the processing… nothing looks amiss in actual real-world content viewing. When I’m watching a movie, I’m not looking at the screen and saying, ‘darn, if only these black levels were richer’. I’ve learned that having X-Tended Dynamic Range cranked on high will make black levels look a bit more elevated, but when not using X-Tended Dynamic Range, there’s really nothing to complain about.

The only real deficiency in this set is that it’s got the lower zone count and of course there’s blooming that goes with it when things are super bright.

I’ll say this: I’m still within my return window, until the 27th. The 65” Z9D is now fifteen hundred dollars less than Z9F… I could easily return the Z9F, get the Z9D and save myself that amount of money. “You should totally do that because the Z9D is awesome!”

But you know what? I’m not going to. Get this: I don’t actually feel compelled to.

I’m happy with my Z9F.

I’m happy with how it tone maps content that’s higher than what it’s natively capable of, I’m happy with black level performance, I’m happy with how the image looks, I’m happy with the operating system, I’m happy with the wide viewing angles, I’m happy with its input lag response times across the board, and I’m especially happy with the lack of dirty screen effect.

At this point, with actual Z9F owners in this thread, to come in and merely look at the contrast ratio and zone count on the television and dismiss the Z9F entirely seems like, ‘hey, you missed the point’. I’m not saying anyone is wrong for preferring the Z9D over the Z9F, but the Z9F is objectively better than the Z9D in certain respects, whereas the Z9D is superior in others.
It is nice to see an actual owner providing objective feedback, rather than having to listen to a non-owner like Marco, whose hair is on fire for no reason. But then, I suppose I should have more respect for Marco who, with his 17 posts, is obviously an expert.
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post #2776 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 08:45 AM
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But there are improvements. The Z9F has better motion handling, a better operating system that runs faster, no perceptible dirty screen effect, better input lag response times, and much wider viewing angles. Just because it doesn’t beat out the Z9D in EVERY aspect doesn’t mean it’s an overall worse television. The black levels are fine. Are they as deep and inky as other televisions? The numbers certainly don’t lie, but Sony are, as js950 said above, making ‘accurate compensations’ with the processing… nothing looks amiss in actual real-world content viewing. When I’m watching a movie, I’m not looking at the screen and saying, ‘darn, if only these black levels were richer’. I’ve learned that having X-Tended Dynamic Range cranked on high will make black levels look a bit more elevated, but when not using X-Tended Dynamic Range, there’s really nothing to complain about.

The only real deficiency in this set is that it’s got the lower zone count and of course there’s blooming that goes with it when things are super bright.

I’ll say this: I’m still within my return window, until the 27th. The 65” Z9D is now fifteen hundred dollars less than Z9F… I could easily return the Z9F, get the Z9D and save myself that amount of money. “You should totally do that because the Z9D is awesome!”

But you know what? I’m not going to. Get this: I don’t actually feel compelled to.

I’m happy with my Z9F.

I’m happy with how it tone maps content that’s higher than what it’s natively capable of, I’m happy with black level performance, I’m happy with how the image looks, I’m happy with the operating system, I’m happy with the wide viewing angles, I’m happy with its input lag response times across the board, and I’m especially happy with the lack of dirty screen effect.

At this point, with actual Z9F owners in this thread, to come in and merely look at the contrast ratio and zone count on the television and dismiss the Z9F entirely seems like, ‘hey, you missed the point’. I’m not saying anyone is wrong for preferring the Z9D over the Z9F, but the Z9F is objectively better than the Z9D in certain respects, whereas the Z9D is superior in others.
The fact that I can ACTUALLY buy a 75-inch set that doesn't take me out of my enjoyment because of DSE is a dream come true and below-average blacks won't be enough to sway me from wanting to try this set.
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post #2777 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 08:48 AM
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Sony Bravia Master Series Concept on YouTube

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
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post #2778 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 09:31 AM
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That would be a good thing. It is odd though once they pull the trigger and go to market to have all shipments suddenly stop. Nothing obvious with mine that’s for sure.
It happens, one thing is for sure we will never know why. This is not the first product to have delays and will not be the last....Now this recall thing is interesting if that actually happened.....
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Finally im not the only one!
I never had this much black bar activity with my 940E but after the DV updates that started.

The horizontal band's i had caused by dimming where gone after the update but blooming and black bar activity got worse. I hope they will fix it but i guess that will not happen for older moddels.

I think they will now start working on a fix after the ZF9 and all complains about the black bar's and blooming so the 930/940 G moddels might have improvements there but i fear the 940E and ZD9 wont get an update to fix what has been lost.

I do have some hopes that Sony will fix it on the ZF9 if they can.
My X950B with 140 zones put the Z9D to shame. Why are Sony's recent backlight systems devolving?
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post #2780 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 11:27 AM
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But there are improvements. The Z9F has better motion handling, a better operating system that runs faster, no perceptible dirty screen effect, better input lag response times, and much wider viewing angles. Just because it doesn’t beat out the Z9D in EVERY aspect doesn’t mean it’s an overall worse television. The black levels are fine. Are they as deep and inky as other televisions? The numbers certainly don’t lie, but Sony are, as js950 said above, making ‘accurate compensations’ with the processing… nothing looks amiss in actual real-world content viewing. When I’m watching a movie, I’m not looking at the screen and saying, ‘darn, if only these black levels were richer’. I’ve learned that having X-Tended Dynamic Range cranked on high will make black levels look a bit more elevated, but when not using X-Tended Dynamic Range, there’s really nothing to complain about.

The only real deficiency in this set is that it’s got the lower zone count and of course there’s blooming that goes with it when things are super bright.

I’ll say this: I’m still within my return window, until the 27th. The 65” Z9D is now fifteen hundred dollars less than Z9F… I could easily return the Z9F, get the Z9D and save myself that amount of money. “You should totally do that because the Z9D is awesome!”

But you know what? I’m not going to. Get this: I don’t actually feel compelled to.

I’m happy with my Z9F.

I’m happy with how it tone maps content that’s higher than what it’s natively capable of, I’m happy with black level performance, I’m happy with how the image looks, I’m happy with the operating system, I’m happy with the wide viewing angles, I’m happy with its input lag response times across the board, and I’m especially happy with the lack of dirty screen effect.

At this point, with actual Z9F owners in this thread, to come in and merely look at the contrast ratio and zone count on the television and dismiss the Z9F entirely seems like, ‘hey, you missed the point’. I’m not saying anyone is wrong for preferring the Z9D over the Z9F, but the Z9F is objectively better than the Z9D in certain respects, whereas the Z9D is superior in others.
The fact that I can ACTUALLY buy a 75-inch set that doesn't take me out of my enjoyment because of DSE is a dream come true and below-average blacks won't be enough to sway me from wanting to try this set.
Yup.

I think that we’re running a fruitless rat race right now in regards to home theater technology. It seems the masterminds at the finish line have placed pieces of cheese at multiple exits, leading everyone in the race to follow their nose to what they believe is the definitive path to the end.

The funny thing is that everyone claims they want a presentation that’s true to the theatrical viewing experience, but most of the comments online don’t really seem to show that.

Blu-ray’s range didn’t quite get us to what the standards were for theatrical exhibition, but HDR has the potential to go above and beyond it. Sometimes HDR is used for greater accuracy, sometimes it’s more about pretty-fying an image to an extent not seen theatrically.

My question is, are people paying attention to the black levels they’re seeing in movie theaters? Compared to what we get at home, they’re pretty bad. Most of us don’t really think of it because it all looks perceptibly fine, and what else are we going to do anyway? Run up to the projection booth and demand they get better equipment that still can’t produce what we can get on our home displays? We got a light shining an image on a screen… it’s inherently inferior to having a panel light with LED’s, and especially OLED’s, in a number of ways.

So, what do people REALLY want? Do they want grayish blacks? Or do they just want the highest contrast because higher numbers tell their brains it’s better?

This is why I certainly won’t get hung up over the blacks of the Z9F. There’s no denying the numbers are more impressive on other sets. But for my eyes, there’s also no denying that while I’m actually playing games or watching movies, that I simply don’t care.

We’ve been so spoiled, folks. Again, if the deepest and darkest blacks are your thing, then sure, look elsewhere. As far as current production models are concerned though, I don’t think you’d get any better than the Z9F. This television doesn’t have crushed blacks like the Samsungs do and so far, evidence seems to suggest that you won’t be running anywhere near the same kind of DSE panel lottery as with Vizio. Everything else outside of these high end offerings are OLED’s, and OLED’s are fine for some but also not fine for others.

As far as actual accuracy is concerned with actual on-screen content, I still think the Z9F lives up to its ‘Master Series’ name. I’ll reiterate that the only real caveat, at least in my opinion, isn’t the lower native contrast numbers (since we don’t watch these TV’s at native contrast levels anyway, thanks to FALD), but the lower zones and blooming. Can these things rear an ugly head? Sure. But it’s usually masked well enough in content.
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post #2781 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Black level is a non-issue on the 75” I’ve come to that conclusion after tireless hours of cherry picking tough scenes from a multitude of HDR/DV films AND specifically in DARK room setting. The bars flashlight from certain kinds of HDR scene luminance. As I’ve said dozens of times, I don’t pay any attention to it. (There’s a little redundancy in this post but consider it an update on my thoughts)

Perceptible DSE or uniformity problems with live content? ZERO
Off-angle color saturation and DR loss: Modest and well in the acceptable range. WAY better than traditional VA panels and immensely better than an IPS panel where peak luminance suffers.
General blooming: extremely well controlled on the 75” (easily as good or better than my Vizio P75 which was very good)
Slight darkening in the corners... not an issue for me and better than typical.
HDR performance is outstanding
Gamut is outstanding
Accuracy OTB: extremely good
Accuracy after calibration: sick! (I’ll be able to discuss soon)
Motion handling with 24p: Great and better after the 1st FW update
FALD performance overall: FAST, imperceptible dimming.
Image processing gizmos: Enhanced Black level (beneficial), Xpanded Dynamic Range (not conclusive), Contrast enhancement (unnecessary). Local dimming (essential). Many of the image processing features are a bigger benefit to SDR/Cable content than to high quality sources.

SDR Blu-ray/iTunes or VUDU streaming is outstanding. Less bar blooming but still a little.
Live football: Best tv ever

I love this display set at 120nits dark room for SDR. I sometimes boost to 160 with some ambient.

Hope they ship soon.

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Vizio 2016 P series FAQ, general info and Help
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post #2782 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 03:15 PM
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I hope @Marco Giubin reads your post...
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post #2783 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 07:33 PM
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Jerry - I’d prefer if he didn’t because he had left the thread

Just another member bashing a display that’s got very few owners and is new, I suspect future firmware updates will make this a special LCD, especially in the 75” class.
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post #2784 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 09:04 PM
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I hope @Marco Giubin reads your post...
He's pretty much regurgitating the same thing as other hyperbolic haters who've been astoundingly aggressive about trashing it sight unseen and all focus completely on the blacks while ignoring the advancements or writing them off/dismissing them as unimportant or not serious issues.

And can't admit that they didn't want advancement nor innovation, just a Z9D again, that's supercharged/a 3 year old television but on steroids, which is not what the F is turning out to be.

And none of them own or have seen one, making their snickering and arrogance redundant. Others actively dismiss the owners while saying they want opinions on the F! And yeah apparently it's all about the raw numbers - when even Rtings have admitted their criteria could be improved.

Personally I'm all about the blacks and I do have a Z9d so it may not be for me (I want a 75" set and in Oz we never got that for the Z9d). And the thing about OLED is that for me if you're getting crush/losing detail in the above black area then that's precisely the same as NOT having great blacks because you're still missing part of the value range and while you can say the numbers are better because of pure black, it's sort of gilding the lily and being slightly disingenuous imo. For OLEDS, it's just a step above where it is for LCD/LEDs. So y'know, potato potahto.

BUT! I don't discount all the other variables and don't consider my own predilections the be all end all, or even those of the whole. Saying the sky is falling and the Z9f is a joke (good God Youtube is worse than AVS for the bile) just makes them look myopic and infantile, when things like the angles, uniformity, brightness (which still relates to colour purity even at lower levels) and finally much better lag rates for gaming ARE absolutely a step forward. And all that stuff MZ and Thomas have been saying.

Is everyone in this section of the market single and watch by themselves in a pitch black room? No. Anyway I'm just saying the hyperbole is telling.
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post #2785 of 5661 Old 10-15-2018, 09:11 PM
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Good point about cinemas and their white screens (that are generally years old and don't have the properties of the newest ones) MZ! I often tell people that and they look at me with blank expressions!

The irony here is that we've just entered the age of non-projection cinemas!
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post #2786 of 5661 Old 10-16-2018, 01:53 AM
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He's pretty much regurgitating the same thing as other hyperbolic haters who've been astoundingly aggressive about trashing it sight unseen and all focus completely on the blacks while ignoring the advancements or writing them off/dismissing them as unimportant or not serious issues.

And can't admit that they didn't want advancement nor innovation, just a Z9D again, that's supercharged/a 3 year old television but on steroids, which is not what the F is turning out to be.

And none of them own or have seen one, making their snickering and arrogance redundant. Others actively dismiss the owners while saying they want opinions on the F! And yeah apparently it's all about the raw numbers - when even Rtings have admitted their criteria could be improved.

Personally I'm all about the blacks and I do have a Z9d so it may not be for me (I want a 75" set and in Oz we never got that for the Z9d). And the thing about OLED is that for me if you're getting crush/losing detail in the above black area then that's precisely the same as NOT having great blacks because you're still missing part of the value range and while you can say the numbers are better because of pure black, it's sort of gilding the lily and being slightly disingenuous imo. For OLEDS, it's just a step above where it is for LCD/LEDs. So y'know, potato potahto.

BUT! I don't discount all the other variables and don't consider my own predilections the be all end all, or even those of the whole. Saying the sky is falling and the Z9f is a joke (good God Youtube is worse than AVS for the bile) just makes them look myopic and infantile, when things like the angles, uniformity, brightness (which still relates to colour purity even at lower levels) and finally much better lag rates for gaming ARE absolutely a step forward. And all that stuff MZ and Thomas have been saying.

Is everyone in this section of the market single and watch by themselves in a pitch black room? No. Anyway I'm just saying the hyperbole is telling.

Sure, but there's also another side to this.


I think some people keep forgetting the Z9F is supposed to be the succesor to the Z9D, and that there were lots of Z9D owners (including myself) who were really looking forward to this TV. I don't think it is "wrong" or even unrealistic to think that a follow up to the Z9D, which is a critcally acclaimed TV to say the least, would have been at least just as good. I would like advancement and innovation as well, but not at the expense of having lesser black level/local dimming/contrast. And this brings up another point.



While some might enjoy that wide viewing angle, or the Netflix calibration or the faster OS, I don't have any need for them whatsoever (I watch dead center, I don't do streaming and do not connect my TVs to the internet). Less game lag? That's nice. I'm a gamer also, but I'm perfectly fine with how the Z9D performs in that regard. So personally I don't need an improvement in that area either. Besides that, watching movies is the most important thing for me (I never watch regular TV). DSE/uniformity issues "solved" with the Z9F? That's great! But the thing is with previous Sony models, it pretty much always has been a panel lottery. Sometimes I lost (46W4500, 65HX929), sometimes it was okay (55NX810), sometimes very good (75X940D) and fortunately most recently I won (65X900E, 65 + 75Z9D). So at this moment, I have two Z9D sets with near perfect uniformity. So that leaves the auto cal funcionality and the X1U performance for me with the Z9F, but at the same time not having the BMD anymore.


I have noticed some people are quick to point out the good things, but at the same time sometimes seem to be downplaying the issues. It reminds me of the X940D thread. I also owned one, bought it at launch and therefore paid the launch price, but I had issues with it and I was not about to downplay that for any reason.



Different people have different needs and that's just fine really. I'm sure the Z9F is a great TV for those that like its features and at the same time are coming from "lesser" sets. And that is something to keep in mind also I think. With all due respect, but some of the Z9F owners here seem to be coming from not the greatest of TVs, so they might be very impressed with the Z9F's performance which is a great thing for them ofcourse. And I genuinley mean that btw. But personally I would have wanted (I expected it actually) that superpriced, supercharged, overengineered TV on steroids, which would have put PQ before anything else. And that to me, would have been the real Z9D succesor. What we have now is a TV that has improvements in some areas that might not be important to some people at all, while at the same time taking a step back in what makes its predecessor so great. IMO you cannot expect this to go without any backlash, even though some of it might have been harsh and a bit unfair at times.



I think it doesn't really matter that I have yet to lay eyes on a 65" or 75Z9F myself (might do so in the future though, should my dealer have it on display, fully calibrated and in his treated showroom). Right from the very beginning when that Sony event took place in NY, all the way through the most recent reviews, as well as some user experiences here, one can already make up his mind regarding this TV I think. Also the prices of these sets are also reflective in what to expect in some way I think. And it's not that I like being "critical" about this. I was superhyped for it ever since it was announced, I checked the Z9F rumor thread here on a daily basis. When I bought my 75Z9D in Febuary, I actually bought it with the intention to be selling it again when the 75Z9F arrived. So I kept that huge empty box in my tiny basement for 6 months. But yeah, I finally got rid of that last month.



So while not everyone in this section of the market may be single, and might not be watching by themselves in a pitch dark room, there are people who expected the Z9F to perform at least on par with its predecessor as far as black level/local dimming goes (meaning using the BMD tech). And I don't think that's unfair or unrealistic at all. I think had Sony called the Z9F the successor to the 900F instead, all this negativity surrounding this set could have been avoided. Just my 2 cents.


Having said this, I wish all (potential) Z9F owners good luck and enjoy your sets!
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post #2787 of 5661 Old 10-16-2018, 04:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Just as an fyi moving forward...... this is not the “I’m going to explain why I’m not buying a Z9F” thread.

This is the “Owners thread”. It’s a place to discuss the actual experience with the display to the benefit of other owners and honest, prospective owners.
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SONY Z9F LCD Master Series Owners Thread
Vizio 2016 P series FAQ, general info and Help
Sony Z9F 75, Vizio P75C1 UHD/HDR/DV, Pioneer Elite SC-95, Samsung UHD Bluray K8500, AppleTV 4K, CC Ultra
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post #2788 of 5661 Old 10-16-2018, 05:15 AM
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Yeah, on another forum I was chatting with someone who had took a gander at the Z9F... not sure if it was a dim display room or what, but they thought the Z9F was absolutely horrid, a 'disaster' for Sony even, and said that OLED is definitely the way to go if you want a great image with amazing black levels. They proceded to tell me that they've done 7 hour-ish sessions with the new Assassin's Creed game in HDR on their OLED as of late and after dozens of hours with the game, they've experienced zero image retention, let alone burn-in.


Not exactly a substantial amount of time to really get into retention and burn issues but, there are plenty of people that DO report having problems. I mean, not much else to say about it. I know it may be rare but I'd be the one boob that actually ends up with burn-in on an OLED.



h

Still have to do more testing with this though. I've got to try it out with games and whatnot. But so far testing a bunch of 4K HDR films, all good.


Assassins creed origins and the sequel have almost no HUD. So you can’t really get burn in.

God of war has a pretty bright HUD in hdr - you might get detention there .

This whole burn in with games for a few hours is way overblown. I had a b6 and zero problems (swapped for z9d 75”). 95% of my content is games and mostly HDR

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post #2789 of 5661 Old 10-16-2018, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzupeman View Post
Yeah, on another forum I was chatting with someone who had took a gander at the Z9F... not sure if it was a dim display room or what, but they thought the Z9F was absolutely horrid, a 'disaster' for Sony even, and said that OLED is definitely the way to go if you want a great image with amazing black levels. They proceded to tell me that they've done 7 hour-ish sessions with the new Assassin's Creed game in HDR on their OLED as of late and after dozens of hours with the game, they've experienced zero image retention, let alone burn-in.


Not exactly a substantial amount of time to really get into retention and burn issues but, there are plenty of people that DO report having problems. I mean, not much else to say about it. I know it may be rare but I'd be the one boob that actually ends up with burn-in on an OLED.



h

Still have to do more testing with this though. I've got to try it out with games and whatnot. But so far testing a bunch of 4K HDR films, all good.


Assassins creed origins and the sequel have almost no HUD. So you can’t really get burn in.

God of war has a pretty bright HUD in hdr - you might get detention there .

This whole burn in with games for a few hours is way overblown. I had a b6 and zero problems (swapped for z9d 75”). 95% of my content is games and mostly HDR
This echoes the same sentiment as seen elsewhere and I’m sure it’s rare compared to overall people with OLED’s but plenty of people do get retention and burn-in. The fact that something like that is even a potential risk, however minimal, turns me off completely. Bloom may be real on a number of LCD LED’s, but it won’t break my television is used improperly, you know?

But it’s as I’ve been saying all along: pick your poison.
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post #2790 of 5661 Old 10-16-2018, 07:05 AM
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.

I have noticed some people are quick to point out the good things, but at the same time sometimes seem to be downplaying the issues. It reminds me of the X940D thread. I also owned one, bought it at launch and therefore paid the launch price, but I had issues with it and I was not about to downplay that for any reason.
You and I know each other from the 940D thread, and I agree, there were people who had issues with that model. I still have my 75X940D, and I was one of the lucky ones who rarely found anything to complain about with my panel. HST, the 940D is a 96-zone set, and I feel that replacing it with the 75Z9F, with three times the zone count, will surely be an improvement for me. I have not been bothered by blooming or black-bar bleed with the 940D, perhaps because it either doesn’t exist on my panel, or because I am not quite so sensitive to these types of issues. This may well carry over to the Z9F.

If I were a current owner of the 75Z9D, I may not be quite as motivated to replace my current display, and respect any Z9D owners who may feel this way.
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