2018 Sony XBR-900F owners settings thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 767 Old 01-18-2019, 10:10 AM
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Your experience is a good example of panel variation, and why rtings says to not use their WB settings. Rtings had a really odd panel, which gave them 100cd/m at brightness of 1 if I recall correctly, where my panel needed 7 to reach 100cd/m after calibration. I tried their settings when my TV first arrived, but the gamma and RGB on HCFR showed them to not be compatible with my panel.

Paul


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Originally Posted by EyeWasAbducted View Post
Posted my settings a couple days ago. Someone in here mentioned turning motionflow to clear so I tried that out. It looks fantastic! It has helped the blooming immensely. So much in fact that I have turned hdr back on on my Apple TV 4k. It does dim the picture, but not enough that it kills the colors for me. I was using Andereggs color settings, but started noticing that they made whites have a red tint. White shirts, backgrounds, etc. so I went back to rtings (they do post full 10 point calibration.) His settings did make the picture pop more and I really liked them, but prefer the better whites of the rtings settings.

Night time settings with medialight quad on 20%:

I use the same settings for SDR/HDR/DV except gamma. Depending on what I watch I may turn it up for hdr content.

Picture mode - custom
Auto picture mode - auto
Brightness - max
Color - 50
Light sensor - on
Contrast - 90
Gamma - 0
Black level - 50
Black adjust - off
Adv contrast - off
Local dimming - medium
Xtended dynamic range - off
Hue - 0
Color temp - expert 1
Adv color - rtings
Live color - off
Sharpness - 50
Reality - auto
Random noise - auto
Digital noise - auto
Smooth gradation - low
Motion - clear
Cinemotion - high

I do lose a little shadow detail around the edges of the screen with the clear setting, but the inky blacks make up for it. And the motion is great. I went back to frame matching on my Apple TV. I’m definitly the happiest I’ve been with this tv. I was a little disappointed with the 900f until now. My x900e was nowhere near as bad with the blooming and it was the cleanest screen I’d ever seen. But I’m really liking how it looks now.
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post #122 of 767 Old 01-19-2019, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
Here is a quick and dirty 2 point calibration for local dimming on high under Cinema Pro or Home with Expert 1 or 2 default. Resulted in 2.15 gamma with 0.8dE. Basically pulls the blue and green down and is about as good as you can get for 2 point calibration on the X900F.

R-Gain -17
G-Gain -22
B-Gain -24
R-Bias Min
G-Bias -14
B-Bias Min

I then threw a 10 point calibration on top of the already precalibrated 2 point settings above. These resulted in 2.2 gamma, 0.20dE, 4000:1 contrast (slider set to max), and 0.025cd/m black level with 100cd/m peak brightness (brightness 7). Add these to Expert 1 or 2 under the above specified Cinema Pro or Home with local dimming set to high, all other options left to default norms. Your results may not be as accurate as I achieved (per panel differences), but the stock settings are so far off that these settings should provide a better experience. After you get your TV calibrated with these settings, you can then start messing around with the effects yuo want to add to them. These are white balance/gamma/color accuracy settings.

Pt R G B (minus sign is a negative value)
1: -1 -2 -17
2: -1 0 0
3: -7 -7 -5
4: -4 -5 -6
5: -1 -2 -3
6: -1 -2 -1
7: -4 -4 -2
8: -3 -2 -2
9: -2 -2 -2
10: 0 0 0

Results from HCFR using Xrite i1D3 meter.

Im using you settings but i have black crash.did the black level test in youtube.And i can make out until 5,everything else is invisible.Is it the same with your Tv too?If not what can i do in order to fix it?


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post #123 of 767 Old 01-19-2019, 09:17 AM
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I would not use that as a reference, use this instead. 16 is absolute black (no signal black hole) in 16-235 video levels. Only PC's using 0-255 RGB FULL can show the 0-15 and 236-255. On my YouTube app, the AVS signal was visible at 18+, but turning black level from 50 to 51 made 17 blink. This calibration was done in pitch black 100cd/m conditions, so that you get the most out of your shadow detail but still have acceptable blacks without a grey glow, so ensure your local dimming is set to high.

PS: New HDMI and APPS calibrations coming soon. Modified to be just as pretty, but allowing better peak brightness for HDR, and better black levels for normal viewing. Stay tuned. (get it...stay tuned...as in calibrated...it was a pun...never mind) :-P


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Im using you settings but i have black crash.did the black level test in youtube.And i can make out until 5,everything else is invisible.Is it the same with your Tv too?If not what can i do in order to fix it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmpInWD8DIA&t=149s
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post #124 of 767 Old 01-19-2019, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
I would not use that as a reference, use this instead. 16 is absolute black (no signal black hole) in 16-235 video levels. Only PC's using 0-255 RGB FULL can show the 0-15 and 236-255. On my YouTube app, the AVS signal was visible at 18+, but turning black level from 50 to 51 made 17 blink. This calibration was done in pitch black 100cd/m conditions, so that you get the most out of your shadow detail but still have acceptable blacks without a grey glow, so ensure your local dimming is set to high.

PS: New HDMI and APPS calibrations coming soon. Modified to be just as pretty, but allowing better peak brightness for HDR, and better black levels for normal viewing. Stay tuned. (get it...stay tuned...as in calibrated...it was a pun...never mind) :-P

https://youtu.be/22AsWcnCzTI



Ok i will wait for the new ones
Ps:I forgot to say that im using it as a monitor for PC. 120hz RGB full (8bit)
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post #125 of 767 Old 01-19-2019, 11:02 AM
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I run mine from my Windows PC, 120Hz RGB full as well, Windows Media Center with 8 tuner Ceton. Are you playing back that YouTube clip on a browser, because even within a browser, your PC's VIDEO settings for full/limited will apply. On my Intel Graphics control panel, I can see the 0-16 and 236-255 only if I set my VIDEO panel to full levels (regardless if my HDMI output is set to full or limited), which in turn makes my actual video files and TV shows look washed out. If you have Windows 10 and HDMI 2.0a, you will even get an HDR YouTube video playback box within the SDR YouTube page itself.

Secondarily, there is a variance in black gamma levels between my Intel MB output and my GTX graphics card output, so that *might* be a thing on yours?

paul

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Ok i will wait for the new ones
Ps:I forgot to say that im using it as a monitor for PC. 120hz RGB full (8bit)
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post #126 of 767 Old 01-19-2019, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
I run mine from my Windows PC, 120Hz RGB full as well, Windows Media Center with 8 tuner Ceton. Are you playing back that YouTube clip on a browser, because even within a browser, your PC's VIDEO settings for full/limited will apply. On my Intel Graphics control panel, I can see the 0-16 and 236-255 only if I set my VIDEO panel to full levels (regardless if my HDMI output is set to full or limited), which in turn makes my actual video files and TV shows look washed out. If you have Windows 10 and HDMI 2.0a, you will even get an HDR YouTube video playback box within the SDR YouTube page itself.

Secondarily, there is a variance in black gamma levels between my Intel MB output and my GTX graphics card output, so that *might* be a thing on yours?

paul

Im using Firefox browser and a GTX 980ti.Im on win 10 Pro 64bit.


PS:If you try the flatpanel 2 Point calibration settings with your tv,(leave the 10p as they are) are black levels similar with your calibration settings.Or is it way to washed out for your tv?

Last edited by Thanasis Xrisatzas; 01-19-2019 at 11:49 AM.
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post #127 of 767 Old 01-19-2019, 05:14 PM
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Thanks Anderegg - I also Tried the 2 point and 10 point settings with Local Dimming to High. I too experience some slight magenta or pinkish overtones in white scenes (snow), however for most part it looks great (better than before calibrating)

For some reason when in Cinema Pro with 2 point+10 point and Expert 1 seems to make the picture duller or hazier? To my eye at least. When I switch to Cinema Home (also with 10 point and Color Expert 1) except Cinema Home has no 2 point it looks less hazy or dull.

After putting in the 2 point and 10 point I decided to remove the 2 point from Cinema Pro and kept the 10 point (Expert 1) and it looks better to me now (less hazy or dull?) . Not sure what it does when removing the 2 point vs 10 point but looks better to my eye at least (I have no calibration equipment).

Question: What is the main difference between 2 point and 10 point or do they both work in tandem with each other or cancel each other when you use your instruments - Sorry I am a newbie and trying to understand it.

Look forward to your next settings.

Question: Anderegg for 4 K HDR or Dolby Vision (HDMI port via Sony X700 Blu ray player) movies what are your overall TV settings (brightness, clarity, motion etc.) with your 2 point calibration and 10 point WB calibration?

Also look forward to your new HDMI and APPS settings.

So far your settings looks best to me especially with the 10 point WB. (Although I understand it to be panel specific)

I am now really enjoying this TV! Only quirks I have is Cinema Pro (looks little duller or hazy compared to Cinema Home, sometimes I see some white noise (saw this in the 4k Fallout Mission Impossible and little bit of pink or magenta hue in white scenes etc. Thanks!

Last edited by StMichaels; 01-19-2019 at 06:20 PM.
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post #128 of 767 Old 01-19-2019, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StMichaels View Post
Thanks Anderegg - I also Tried the 2 point and 10 point settings with Local Dimming to High. I too experience some slight magenta or pinkish overtones in white scenes (snow), however for most part it looks great (better than before calibrating)

For some reason when in Cinema Pro with 2 point+10 point and Expert 1 seems to make the picture duller or hazier? To my eye at least. When I switch to Cinema Home (also with 10 point and Color Expert 1) except Cinema Home has no 2 point it looks less hazy or dull.

After putting in the 2 point and 10 point I decided to remove the 2 point from Cinema Pro and kept the 10 point (Expert 1) and it looks better to me now (less hazy or dull?) . Not sure what it does when removing the 2 point vs 10 point but looks better to my eye at least (I have no calibration equipment).

Question: What is the main difference between 2 point and 10 point or do they both work in tandem with each other or cancel each other when you use your instruments - Sorry I am a newbie and trying to understand it.

Look forward to your next settings.

Question: Anderegg for 4 K HDR or Dolby Vision (HDMI port via Sony X700 Blu ray player) movies what are your overall TV settings (brightness, clarity, motion etc.) with your 2 point calibration and 10 point WB calibration?

Also look forward to your new HDMI and APPS settings.

So far your settings looks best to me especially with the 10 point WB. (Although I understand it to be panel specific)

I am now really enjoying this TV! Only quirks I have is Cinema Pro (looks little duller or hazy compared to Cinema Home, sometimes I see some white noise (saw this in the 4k Fallout Mission Impossible and little bit of pink or magenta hue in white scenes etc. Thanks!

What you removed is like 90%+ of the calibration lol 10p changes are so small that you cant even tell from no calibration at all.
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post #129 of 767 Old 01-19-2019, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Thanasis Xrisatzas View Post
What you removed is like 90%+ of the calibration lol 10p changes are so small that you cant even tell from no calibration at all.
Haha ok - I guess I have much to learn and did the wrong thing. - I will start over when Anderegg gives some new settings.

Still learning - lol..
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post #130 of 767 Old 01-19-2019, 11:55 PM
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Haha ok - I guess I have much to learn and did the wrong thing. - I will start over when Anderegg gives some new settings.

Still learning - lol..

Give a try to flatpanel HD settings also (second post).Since all tvs are different they might work better for you.
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post #131 of 767 Old 01-20-2019, 10:30 AM
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Hcfr 2+10 point calibration january 20 2019

THESE ARE OLDER SETTINGS, PLEASE SEE POST BELOW FOR UPDATED SETTINGS


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552

OK, spent all of yesterday trying hard to get the most perfect gamma as possible, only to discover 8 hours in that my i1D3 meter has a serious issue with measurement color drift after being stuck to a TV for 8 hours! Long story short, the hours of calibrating were only good for training, and I redid them this morning, and the results are below. Final result was calibrated to 120ish cd/m at brightness 6, contrast MAX, with local dimming set to high. Resulting black level was 0.034cd/m, contrast around 3400:1, 2.2 flat gamma, remarkable 0.16dE average white balance error, with a 0.99dE for color checker dE. The point of this new calibration was to go beyond just getting a good white dE and 2.2 gamma, and to optimize the calibration for maximum possible brightness, which is why you see the weakest color gain left at Max, and the other brought down to match it, instead of just randomly bringing everything up and down.

Due to panel variances, you may or may not have an issue with strange color tint. Some have noticed a reddish hue to their TV after adding settings. The quick and dirty freestyle method to tweak those, is to adjust the 2 point GAIN color down or up until the offending hue goes away. Gain is color brightness, bias is color shadows...the 0% to 100% bias up to gain is your gamma...the lower the bias in relation to the gain, the larger the gamma value number will become. For ever 2 steps of gain you reduce, it will require maybe 1 step of the same color of bias to be removed as well. This calibration and gamma curve was achieved with local dimming on and contrast to maximum. There is no white clipping, and turning local dimming off with these settings will result in low range shadow gamma oddities, and maybe some crushed blacks. See HCFR screen grab below.

I am still working on the new APPS calibration. You can use the HDMI version for APPS, although not optimized, should still be workable. The biggest difference between HDMI and APPS calibrations is that HDMI on APPS will result in increased shadow gamma, meaning the shadows will fall below the highlights in luminance and color volume, typically referred to as crushed blacks.

Expert 1 HDMI

Brightness 6 for 120cd/m
Contrast Max
Local Dimming High
X-tended Dynamic Range OFF

2 Point
R-Gain Max
G-Gain -6
B-Gain -7
R-Bias -14
G-Bias -11
B-Bias -18

10 Point
Point 1 -3 -2 -1
Point 2 -1 -1 -2
Point 3 -5 -3 -5
Point 4 -2 -1 -4
Point 5 -2 -1 -2
Point 6 -5 -4 -2
Point 7 -1 1 -2
Point 8 -5 -4 -3
Point 9 0 1 -4
Point 10 0 0 0

For those of you who have never had your TV calibrated, i am sure others who have will agree that the cost of the meter ($200) can and will increase the picture quality more than if you spent that money on a TV costing the same amount more as the meter itself. A proper calibration can make your Sony look like a completely different TV, and will absolutely put more expensive TV's with standard settings to shame.
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post #132 of 767 Old 01-20-2019, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
OK, spent all of yesterday trying hard to get the most perfect gamma as possible, only to discover 8 hours in that my i1D3 meter has a serious issue with measurement color drift after being stuck to a TV for 8 hours! Long story short, the hours of calibrating were only good for training, and I redid them this morning, and the results are below. Final result was calibrated to 120ish cd/m at brightness 6, contrast MAX, with local dimming set to high. Resulting black level was 0.034cd/m, contrast around 3400:1, 2.2 flat gamma, remarkable 0.16dE average white balance error, with a 0.99dE for color checker dE. The point of this new calibration was to go beyond just getting a good white dE and 2.2 gamma, and to optimize the calibration for maximum possible brightness, which is why you see the weakest color gain left at Max, and the other brought down to match it, instead of just randomly bringing everything up and down.

Due to panel variances, you may or may not have an issue with strange color tint. Some have noticed a reddish hue to their TV after adding settings. The quick and dirty freestyle method to tweak those, is to adjust the 2 point GAIN color down or up until the offending hue goes away. Gain is color brightness, bias is color shadows...the 0% to 100% bias up to gain is your gamma...the lower the bias in relation to the gain, the larger the gamma value number will become. For ever 2 steps of gain you reduce, it will require maybe 1 step of the same color of bias to be removed as well. This calibration and gamma curve was achieved with local dimming on and contrast to maximum. There is no white clipping, and turning local dimming off with these settings will result in low range shadow gamma oddities, and maybe some crushed blacks. See HCFR screen grab below.

I am still working on the new APPS calibration. You can use the HDMI version for APPS, although not optimized, should still be workable. The biggest difference between HDMI and APPS calibrations is that HDMI on APPS will result in increased shadow gamma, meaning the shadows will fall below the highlights in luminance and color volume, typically referred to as crushed blacks.

Expert 1 HDMI

Brightness 6 for 120cd/m
Contrast Max
Local Dimming High
X-tended Dynamic Range OFF

2 Point
R-Gain Max
G-Gain -6
B-Gain -7
R-Bias -14
G-Bias -11
B-Bias -18

10 Point
Point 1 -3 -2 -1
Point 2 -1 -1 -2
Point 3 -5 -3 -5
Point 4 -2 -1 -4
Point 5 -2 -1 -2
Point 6 -5 -4 -2
Point 7 -1 1 -2
Point 8 -5 -4 -3
Point 9 0 1 -4
Point 10 0 0 0

For those of you who have never had your TV calibrated, i am sure others who have will agree that the cost of the meter ($200) can and will increase the picture quality more than if you spent that money on a TV costing the same amount more as the meter itself. A proper calibration can make your Sony look like a completely different TV, and will absolutely put more expensive TV's with standard settings to shame.

Thanks for the new settings.Sadly i have very similar black crash with the settings before.Does this mean that our panels are that much different?


Ps:Actually its fine as long as i have brightness at 6,but i get blind by it at night..its far to bright for me.
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post #133 of 767 Old 01-20-2019, 11:39 AM
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What size TV do you have, these were done on a 49" model. I know that Sony among other models will use different panel manufacturers for different sizes of the same model.

You can try the gamma slider for the black crush, or raise the Bias levels evenly? I still say it's a good buy to get a meter and calibrate your own TV's. My meter also auto calibrates PC's, Mac's and laptop monitors.

Paul

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Originally Posted by Thanasis Xrisatzas View Post
Thanks for the new settings.Sadly i have very similar black crash with the settings before.Does this mean that our panels are that much different?


Ps:Actually its fine as long as i have brightness at 6,but i get blind by it at night..its far to bright for me.
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post #134 of 767 Old 01-20-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
What size TV do you have, these were done on a 49" model. I know that Sony among other models will use different panel manufacturers for different sizes of the same model.

You can try the gamma slider for the black crush, or raise the Bias levels evenly? I still say it's a good buy to get a meter and calibrate your own TV's. My meter also auto calibrates PC's, Mac's and laptop monitors.

Paul

I have the 55" one.If i use flatpanel HD calibration i have no black crush.But i like yours more.I will try to follow your suggestion and see


How much does a meter cost?If its not so expensive i might try to get a hold on one...


PS:With all 3 bias at 0 i have no black crush,but will that affect the quality of the calibration?

Last edited by Thanasis Xrisatzas; 01-20-2019 at 11:53 AM.
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post #135 of 767 Old 01-20-2019, 12:20 PM
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The 2 and 10 point are basically gamma by means of individual color adjustments, the luminance of each color at each level of brightness. KEEP the calibration with black crush, and turn the TV's GAMMA slider UP. This will keep the calibration adjustments of R G and B aligned, but raising gamma will do the same basic thing as raising bias, which is add brightness to the shadows and alleviate your black crush. The good thing about the gamma slider is it doesn't alter white balance adjustments, just pulls the shadows and midtones up and down.

I use the Xrite i1D3 meter, got it new on eBay for $180. There are other similar cheaper meters, which you would use with the free HCFR software on a PC or laptop. I used to have Spyder meter, but got the i1D3 because it is more accurate. With most meters, they are basically the same, with more expensive versions only adding software such as the i1D3 program which auto calibrates laptops and Macs, if you want those features. Ask on the HCFR AVS thread about a meter being compatible with HCFR before you purchase.

https://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-i1Disp...0055MBQOW?th=1

https://www.homecinema-fr.com/colori...fr-colormeter/

Paul

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Originally Posted by Thanasis Xrisatzas View Post
I have the 55" one.If i use flatpanel HD calibration i have no black crush.But i like yours more.I will try to follow your suggestion and see


How much does a meter cost?If its not so expensive i might try to get a hold on one...


PS:With all 3 bias at 0 i have no black crush,but will that affect the quality of the calibration?
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post #136 of 767 Old 01-20-2019, 06:48 PM
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I've had my 49x900F for 48 hours now and I am so far liking it. I calibrated using the Flatpanel settings but bumped up the brightness from 15 to 20 as it seemed too bland on the 15. I have been watching today's football games in sports mode and it got me to wonder if any of you have any tweaks on the Sports mode?

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Cheers! Big Rich
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@Anderegg

Great new HDMI settings, and here's what I used to Test.

4K HDR "Black Panther" - A great movie for testing, colors were fantastic, and I didn't notice any black crush in the darker sceens. Blacks looked awesome with no noticeable blooming in bars, and only very slight blooming during end credits.

Blu-ray "Fury" - good movie to look for black crush, especially inside the tank. Here I did see some slight crush, so I raised gamma to 1, I may try leaving gamma at 0 and raising Black Level to 51. Using these setting for apps and test the Black Clipping video (Youtube) I had to raise the Black Level to 51 to see slight flashing on 17 while keeping 16 reference Black. Raising BL to 52 there is a very very slight blink on 16.

DVD "Oblivion" - This was a good all around test, upscaling, DSE, Black crush, motion, color. It was here I discovered I had my Denon HDMI output set to ISF Day, I changed to the default of "Off" Good think this was the first movie i tossed in

Overall I think these are better than the last, and I do like these for my antena/OTA HD. Great Job and thank you for sharing!!
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Sony 75X900F / MediaLight Quad 6500K
Sony X800
Denon X4400H / Outlaw 5000 (5.2.4 Atmos) AIRCOM T9
Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, Klipsch RS-52 II, Klipsch RP-500SA
SVS PB-3000 x2

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post #138 of 767 Old 01-22-2019, 03:55 PM
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Keep in mind that local dimming is a VARIABLE OPTION, meaning it dynamically adjusts and alters black levels depending on the exact scene, and surrounding dimmable areas. I wouldn't be too worried about not seeing 17 or 18 on the black levels, as these are basically just above absolute black, and could be subdued by the local dimming process. Also, if you can look at your TV from above or below and see black detail expose itself, that is another fun aspect of LCD technology. True black crush is 17 18 19 20 etc, that are sent to level 16, meaning all given the same digital value of 0 black or absolute black. If you can see those areas, they are hidden or subdued, and not technically crushed into digital nothingness. :-)

Paul

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibrations https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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Originally Posted by CaptinCrunch View Post
@Anderegg

Great new HDMI settings, and here's what I used to Test.

4K HDR "Black Panther" - A great movie for testing, colors were fantastic, and I didn't notice any black crush in the darker sceens. Blacks looked awesome with no noticeable blooming in bars, and only very slight blooming during end credits.

Blu-ray "Fury" - good movie to look for black crush, especially inside the tank. Here I did see some slight crush, so I raised gamma to 1, I may try leaving gamma at 0 and raising Black Level to 51. Using these setting for apps and test the Black Clipping video (Youtube) I had to raise the Black Level to 51 to see slight flashing on 17 while keeping 16 reference Black. Raising BL to 52 there is a very very slight blink on 16.

DVD "Oblivion" - This was a good all around test, upscaling, DSE, Black crush, motion, color. It was here I discovered I had my Denon HDMI output set to ISF Day, I changed to the default of "Off" Good think this was the first movie i tossed in

Overall I think these are better than the last, and I do like these for my antena/OTA HD. Great Job and thank you for sharing!!
I agree with @CaptinCrunch 100% I am definitely digging these new settings and sincerely appreciate the effort you put in to create them @Anderegg !
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post #140 of 767 Old 01-22-2019, 06:22 PM
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OK, spent all of yesterday trying hard to get the most perfect gamma as possible, only to discover 8 hours in that my i1D3 meter has a serious issue with measurement color drift after being stuck to a TV for 8 hours! Long story short, the hours of calibrating were only good for training, and I redid them this morning, and the results are below. Final result was calibrated to 120ish cd/m at brightness 6, contrast MAX, with local dimming set to high. Resulting black level was 0.034cd/m, contrast around 3400:1, 2.2 flat gamma, remarkable 0.16dE average white balance error, with a 0.99dE for color checker dE. The point of this new calibration was to go beyond just getting a good white dE and 2.2 gamma, and to optimize the calibration for maximum possible brightness, which is why you see the weakest color gain left at Max, and the other brought down to match it, instead of just randomly bringing everything up and down.

Due to panel variances, you may or may not have an issue with strange color tint. Some have noticed a reddish hue to their TV after adding settings. The quick and dirty freestyle method to tweak those, is to adjust the 2 point GAIN color down or up until the offending hue goes away. Gain is color brightness, bias is color shadows...the 0% to 100% bias up to gain is your gamma...the lower the bias in relation to the gain, the larger the gamma value number will become. For ever 2 steps of gain you reduce, it will require maybe 1 step of the same color of bias to be removed as well. This calibration and gamma curve was achieved with local dimming on and contrast to maximum. There is no white clipping, and turning local dimming off with these settings will result in low range shadow gamma oddities, and maybe some crushed blacks. See HCFR screen grab below.

I am still working on the new APPS calibration. You can use the HDMI version for APPS, although not optimized, should still be workable. The biggest difference between HDMI and APPS calibrations is that HDMI on APPS will result in increased shadow gamma, meaning the shadows will fall below the highlights in luminance and color volume, typically referred to as crushed blacks.

Expert 1 HDMI

Brightness 6 for 120cd/m
Contrast Max
Local Dimming High
X-tended Dynamic Range OFF

2 Point
R-Gain Max
G-Gain -6
B-Gain -7
R-Bias -14
G-Bias -11
B-Bias -18

10 Point
Point 1 -3 -2 -1
Point 2 -1 -1 -2
Point 3 -5 -3 -5
Point 4 -2 -1 -4
Point 5 -2 -1 -2
Point 6 -5 -4 -2
Point 7 -1 1 -2
Point 8 -5 -4 -3
Point 9 0 1 -4
Point 10 0 0 0

For those of you who have never had your TV calibrated, i am sure others who have will agree that the cost of the meter ($200) can and will increase the picture quality more than if you spent that money on a TV costing the same amount more as the meter itself. A proper calibration can make your Sony look like a completely different TV, and will absolutely put more expensive TV's with standard settings to shame.
FYI,
You must have a very unique panel because your Bias adjustments for the 2pt calibration seem way off. I never have had to adjust them more than a couple of clicks + or -. Your adjustments are huge and when you have to make large adjustments like that i'm always suspicious that there you have a panel that's out of spec or something is wrong with your calibration setup. You said you calibrating with Local Dimming set to High? You should be calibrating with it OFF then when you adjust it to Low, Medium or High, the set will make the correct offsets. This is from Sony.

John
Sony 55A1E, A9F / LG 55OLEDC8
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Last edited by jrref; 01-22-2019 at 06:29 PM.
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post #141 of 767 Old 01-22-2019, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
FYI,
You must have a very unique panel because your Bias adjustments for the 2pt calibration seem way off. I never have had to adjust them more than a couple of clicks + or -. Your adjustments are huge and when you have to make large adjustments like that i'm always suspicious that there you have a panel that's out of spec or something is wrong with your calibration setup. You said you calibrating with Local Dimming set to High? You should be calibrating with it OFF then when you adjust it to Low, Medium or High, the set will make the correct offsets. This is from Sony.
It seems to be pretty evenly split between people who find the calibrations amazing, or have 2 point issues with them, such as reddish hue. I think that may be a panel variation on larger size panels, variance from mine, not variance from"correct". More reason to push people to spend the $100-150USD on a meter for the free HCFR software.

As for calibrating with local dimming off...if you calibrate with local dimming off, you end up with a few issues if you plan to watch the TV with local dimming on. Firstly, if you calibrate for black compensated 2.2 gamma, meaning your gamma curve starts at your TV's actual black level reading, and not absolute 0.00000cd/m like an OLED, then when you turn on local dimming, your shadows will all DARKEN, and you would get black crush. This can also be seen on the RGB levels, as when I calibrate LD off, then turn LD on and take another sweep, my RGB 's not only all fall below the 100% line on HCFR, they do so in an inconsistent and awkward way. Now this may not be visible to most people, but it's definitely there, so I calibrate how I watch. Other things that will alter a calibration include BFI, or motion clearness settings. Not sure why, but they mess with the shadows as well.

I've also been playing around with HDR10 and HCFR, but I am seeing things that mean I don't know how to take HDR readings, or that the RGB is screwed up massively 10-50% when HDR10 is active. Sony says the gamma tracks up to HDR from SDR, but I am not seeing this so far.

Paul
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post #142 of 767 Old 01-23-2019, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
It seems to be pretty evenly split between people who find the calibrations amazing, or have 2 point issues with them, such as reddish hue. I think that may be a panel variation on larger size panels, variance from mine, not variance from"correct". More reason to push people to spend the $100-150USD on a meter for the free HCFR software.

As for calibrating with local dimming off...if you calibrate with local dimming off, you end up with a few issues if you plan to watch the TV with local dimming on. Firstly, if you calibrate for black compensated 2.2 gamma, meaning your gamma curve starts at your TV's actual black level reading, and not absolute 0.00000cd/m like an OLED, then when you turn on local dimming, your shadows will all DARKEN, and you would get black crush. This can also be seen on the RGB levels, as when I calibrate LD off, then turn LD on and take another sweep, my RGB 's not only all fall below the 100% line on HCFR, they do so in an inconsistent and awkward way. Now this may not be visible to most people, but it's definitely there, so I calibrate how I watch. Other things that will alter a calibration include BFI, or motion clearness settings. Not sure why, but they mess with the shadows as well.

I've also been playing around with HDR10 and HCFR, but I am seeing things that mean I don't know how to take HDR readings, or that the RGB is screwed up massively 10-50% when HDR10 is active. Sony says the gamma tracks up to HDR from SDR, but I am not seeing this so far.

Paul

Paul i have found X-Rite ColorMunki Display for 70 euro less.What is your opinion about this one?Also i read somewhere that they get useless/inaccurate after some years cause the inside filters have a certain lifespan,is this true?
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post #143 of 767 Old 01-23-2019, 04:28 AM
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The Xrite website says the Monkey is the same meter as the i1D3, only the i1D3 comes with the iProfiler software, the Monkey does not. If you need to calibrate your Windows laptop or Macbook, then get the i1D3. If you just need a meter for HCFR, the Monkey should be perfectly capable at the lower price.

Not sure how long meters last.

Paul
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Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibrations https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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The Xrite website says the Monkey is the same meter as the i1D3, only the i1D3 comes with the iProfiler software, the Monkey does not. If you need to calibrate your Windows laptop or Macbook, then get the i1D3. If you just need a meter for HCFR, the Monkey should be perfectly capable at the lower price.

Not sure how long meters last.

Paul

I will use it only for my TV.Not sure what i will do yet tho,cause im on a tight budget...
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post #145 of 767 Old 01-23-2019, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
It seems to be pretty evenly split between people who find the calibrations amazing, or have 2 point issues with them, such as reddish hue. I think that may be a panel variation on larger size panels, variance from mine, not variance from"correct". More reason to push people to spend the $100-150USD on a meter for the free HCFR software.

As for calibrating with local dimming off...if you calibrate with local dimming off, you end up with a few issues if you plan to watch the TV with local dimming on. Firstly, if you calibrate for black compensated 2.2 gamma, meaning your gamma curve starts at your TV's actual black level reading, and not absolute 0.00000cd/m like an OLED, then when you turn on local dimming, your shadows will all DARKEN, and you would get black crush. This can also be seen on the RGB levels, as when I calibrate LD off, then turn LD on and take another sweep, my RGB 's not only all fall below the 100% line on HCFR, they do so in an inconsistent and awkward way. Now this may not be visible to most people, but it's definitely there, so I calibrate how I watch. Other things that will alter a calibration include BFI, or motion clearness settings. Not sure why, but they mess with the shadows as well.

I've also been playing around with HDR10 and HCFR, but I am seeing things that mean I don't know how to take HDR readings, or that the RGB is screwed up massively 10-50% when HDR10 is active. Sony says the gamma tracks up to HDR from SDR, but I am not seeing this so far.

Paul
I'm trying to help since I've calibrated many 900F's and never had these issues or seen calibration results like yours.
So calibrating with local dimming off is how Sony designed the set to get the best possible outcome. When you use Calman Autocal which uses parameters from Sony, Local Dimming is turned off for the calibration then turned back on after it's done. I'm guessing the reason why you see issues calibrating like this is because something is not right with your setup. Post the 2pt with Local Dimming off and let's see what you come up with and maybe figure out what's going on. You are on the right track. In order to fix black crush, which you shouldn't be getting much on an LCD, you need to get the gamma set properly.

Sony does calculate the HDR parameters from the SDR calibration and it works perfectly.
I'll post some scans later to show that it does work.

Also I know Calman is not free but Sony is releasing new firmware which will allow you to use Autocal. Autocal will calibrate the set automatically and you can not only see what it's doing but also manually tweak the settings after it's done.

John
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post #146 of 767 Old 01-23-2019, 05:19 AM
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I will use it only for my TV.Not sure what i will do yet tho,cause im on a tight budget...
You could always buy the meter, calibrate your TV< then resell the meter on eBay. You would lose a little bit of money from the transaction, but the end cost would be small, and the improvement would be worth it IMO. :-)


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I'm trying to help since I've calibrated many 900F's and never had these issues or seen calibration results like yours.
So calibrating with local dimming off is how Sony designed the set to get the best possible outcome. When you use Calman Autocal which uses parameters from Sony, Local Dimming is turned off for the calibration then turned back on after it's done. I'm guessing the reason why you see issues calibrating like this is because something is not right with your setup. Post the 2pt with Local Dimming off and let's see what you come up with and maybe figure out what's going on. You are on the right track. In order to fix black crush, which you shouldn't be getting much on an LCD, you need to get the gamma set properly.

Sony does calculate the HDR parameters from the SDR calibration and it works perfectly.
I'll post some scans later to show that it does work.

Also I know Calman is not free but Sony is releasing new firmware which will allow you to use Autocal. Autocal will calibrate the set automatically and you can not only see what it's doing but also manually tweak the settings after it's done.
They are putting autocal on the X900F? I want in! :-D

The LD will mess with my TV's low end gamma, causing colors to go up or down or both, not together, but randomly. I can show you what my X900F looks like on stock Cinema Pro Expert 1 or 2 defaulted to stock settings, and the blue is almost off the chart, green close behind it, and red is typically below 100%. My first pass to get a baseline of max RGB brightness, HCFR gave me something like 300nits B 200nits G in peak color brightness above R. With all the B and G turned down to match my R, my end maximum brightness at 100 is only like 460cd/m.

If I toggle my corrections on and off, you can see the TV go blue/green, yucky skin tones. I see this blue green push in almost every TV, simply because they can shove more photons at your eyes, ignoring what tint/hue those photons come at you as.

Paul
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post #147 of 767 Old 01-23-2019, 05:22 AM
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Hey all. I've had my 75" 900f since Saturday and have gone thru 3 or 4 of the settings suggested.
It seems that most suggest expert 1 but everything looks yellow. It's very noticeable with white text.
I have not gone thru the 10pt settings yet but hopefully will have time tonight.

Any ideas or suggestions?
Thanks.

Last edited by jds22; 01-23-2019 at 06:45 AM.
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post #148 of 767 Old 01-23-2019, 07:08 AM
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Should x-tended dynamic range be used for HDR content? If you are not using this feature, are you experiencing HDR how it’s intended?
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post #149 of 767 Old 01-23-2019, 07:47 AM
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FYI,
You must have a very unique panel because your Bias adjustments for the 2pt calibration seem way off. I never have had to adjust them more than a couple of clicks + or -. Your adjustments are huge and when you have to make large adjustments like that i'm always suspicious that there you have a panel that's out of spec or something is wrong with your calibration setup. You said you calibrating with Local Dimming set to High? You should be calibrating with it OFF then when you adjust it to Low, Medium or High, the set will make the correct offsets. This is from Sony.
John, do you think you could post an example of what you would consider a conservative 2 point adjustment for the 900f? I like some of the characteristics of Paul's calibration, but I do think that the change is a bit extreme and darkens the panel and colors too much for my liking.

--
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post #150 of 767 Old 01-23-2019, 07:55 AM
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Can anyone tell me how this TV stacks up against the XBR 65x900a?

This F series does have HDR and now Dolby Vision?


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