Buy TV this summer or wait??!!! 4k vs 8k - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 25 Old 01-04-2019, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Buy TV this summer or wait??!!! 4k vs 8k

I know, I know... We can always be waiting for the next best tv.

I have a 65" Samsung HU9000 (one of the 1st 4k tv's). I have been in the market for a 75" (at least) tv for our theater-type room. I always told myself that I wasn't buying another LED tv for that room, and was only getting an OLED. The Sammy is good, but has horrible Light bleed and clouding compared to my new Sony 930d in my other living room. I also can only play 4K content through the Samsung apps on the tv.

I have now decided that I do not want to go smaller than a 75" tv, so unfortunately that rules out OLED, since the wife has set the budget at no more than $4000-$4500. I am also worried about burn-in if I game on it. But I want the BEST black levels I can get on an LED. I've stared at light bleed for too many years.

With CES around the corner and 8K being the only main upgrade, do get a top of the line 4k LED this summer, or now wait until 2020 and hope large 8K tv's are around $4000 ???? I don't have the ability to upgrade every year like some, so my next tv will need to last at least 4 years. Below is my thinking for each option:

Buy top of the line 4K tv this summer:
- companies have had years to perfect upscaling
- get better back light/dimming technology for the money
- get better processing power for the money
- will be able to purchase an Oppo 4k dvd player with extra money

Wait and buy 8K in 2020
- get more pixels on a big screen
- assumed better picture quality and black levels
- HDMI 2.1
- there's not even 4K content now on DirectTV so expecting 8K content anywhere is almost laughable
- who knows how expensive 75" models will be even in 2020.

What other things should I take into account?

Also, what do all of you do with your old tv's??? It's tough to sell a tv that's 5 yrs old when you can get a new one with better features now for pretty cheap.
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post #2 of 25 Old 01-04-2019, 12:05 PM
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It's too early still for 8k and HDMI 2.1, unless you're a gamer and even then, this year may be a tad bit early. There is going to be lots of smoke and mirrors with HDMI 2.1 this year because it will be very confusing (purposely so) as to what you are getting, what it means for the average consumer and whether fully compliant HDMI 2.1 is even available now or in the future with an firmware upgrade. HDMI cable distance (48Gbps) will also be an issue initially, regardless of current mfr claims.


It seems to me that this year is a transition year to the new technologies (OLED, LED, HDMI 2.1, 8k) but it may be a bit premature to dive into that now if you plan on keeping your tv for the next few years.


If you old tv still works, see if Goodwill will take it.
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post #3 of 25 Old 01-04-2019, 04:31 PM
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An easy call, buy the LG 77C8 when the C9 hits the market. It's sure to be available at $4500 or less. Gaming shouldn't be a problem unless you pause the image for long periods.
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post #4 of 25 Old 01-04-2019, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fonz5000 View Post
- there's not even 4K content now on DirectTV so expecting 8K content anywhere is almost laughable
DirecTV does have 4K and HDR now, with suitable equipment. Much of what it has for free is not discernibly better than 2k, yet some of it is (I don't buy pay 4K movies) And I also get 4K from several of my TV's apps.

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post #5 of 25 Old 01-04-2019, 05:36 PM
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I have a 65" Samsung ... the wife has set the budget at no more than $4000-$4500. I am also worried about burn-in if I game on it. But I want the BEST black levels I can get on an LED.
Do I have a deal for you. Probably just $499 more and perhaps available by early February, the 65" 8K Samsung Q200R gets very good marks on PQ from reviewers. One even said it had the best black levels of any LED.. (Off angle viewing apparently not quite as good.)

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post #6 of 25 Old 01-04-2019, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fonz5000 View Post
I know, I know... We can always be waiting for the next best tv.

I have a 65" Samsung HU9000 (one of the 1st 4k tv's). I have been in the market for a 75" (at least) tv for our theater-type room. I always told myself that I wasn't buying another LED tv for that room, and was only getting an OLED. The Sammy is good, but has horrible Light bleed and clouding compared to my new Sony 930d in my other living room. I also can only play 4K content through the Samsung apps on the tv.

I have now decided that I do not want to go smaller than a 75" tv, so unfortunately that rules out OLED, since the wife has set the budget at no more than $4000-$4500. I am also worried about burn-in if I game on it. But I want the BEST black levels I can get on an LED. I've stared at light bleed for too many years.

With CES around the corner and 8K being the only main upgrade, do get a top of the line 4k LED this summer, or now wait until 2020 and hope large 8K tv's are around $4000 ???? I don't have the ability to upgrade every year like some, so my next tv will need to last at least 4 years. Below is my thinking for each option:

Buy top of the line 4K tv this summer:
- companies have had years to perfect upscaling
- get better back light/dimming technology for the money
- get better processing power for the money
- will be able to purchase an Oppo 4k dvd player with extra money

Wait and buy 8K in 2020
- get more pixels on a big screen
- assumed better picture quality and black levels
- HDMI 2.1
- there's not even 4K content now on DirectTV so expecting 8K content anywhere is almost laughable
- who knows how expensive 75" models will be even in 2020.

What other things should I take into account?

Also, what do all of you do with your old tv's??? It's tough to sell a tv that's 5 yrs old when you can get a new one with better features now for pretty cheap.
The absolute minimum size TV I would consider for 8k is 85" - so unless you're flirting with that (and really, why? there's no content now and if you upgrade every 4 years there just might be some next time - just get the 4K now.
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post #7 of 25 Old 01-04-2019, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
DirecTV does have 4K and HDR now, with suitable equipment. Much of what it has for free is not discernibly better than 2k, yet some of it is (I don't buy pay 4K movies) And I also get 4K from several of my TV's apps.
Yeah. I have the Directv 4K channels, but there’s only two of them and not even full time content. I do use Apps for 4K content as well, but can anyone really see Netflix and stuff doing a lot of 8k when not even everything on there is in 4K?
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post #8 of 25 Old 01-04-2019, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 10th St. View Post
The absolute minimum size TV I would consider for 8k is 85" - so unless you're flirting with that (and really, why? there's no content now and if you upgrade every 4 years there just might be some next time - just get the 4K now.
Yeah. That is what I’m leaning towards. I just am not going to get everything I want for $4000.
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post #9 of 25 Old 01-05-2019, 03:56 AM
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We only still get HD (720p) at tops here in Sweden... (not counting web content)


I'm curious how cheap these will be (hah)

I can only really see the benefit if you connect a PC to these high resolutions 8K TVs , using that resolution is easy being provided it works easy enough without quirks or limitations(this usually not problem free for most TVs).



Just got a 55" 4K and already feel it's "small" and looking for how 8K will come around with the better HDMI 2.1 ports and higher refresh rates. We would be about settled then in that department and only image quality, response time etc is left to improve on in continuity.



For the OP, There will be a few more competing 8K devices this year but I expect them still be quite expensive, I don't see them lowering price too fast until everyone dumps 4k and goes to only 8K manufacturing.

But HDMI 2.1 will be going mainstream soon and almost all LG devices this year will be HDMI 2.1 as will most other manufactures displays also be. Only the low tier ones will keep the older ports only.
So you could get a good 2019 TV 4k with HDMI 2.1 in the summer if you want to pay the premium before they again lower prices at the end of the year for preparation for the next years models.
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post #10 of 25 Old 01-05-2019, 09:16 AM
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LG has announced their new line up of OLED and LED sets. All will have "HDMI 2.1" ports. Supposedly it is true 48kbps but I would wait for reviews. My point, these have the potential to be pretty darn good. True 4K/120Hz processing with 4:4:4 chroma, 10-12bit signal, eARC, VVR, etc, would be quite future proof. To me the main advantage of waiting on OLED is top emission OLED displays should come out in the next year or two. They will be brighter, more energy efficient and since they are a new design they might have better uniformity but who knows how long it will take for them to come out and who knows if there will be growing pains. Then again waiting a year or two should allow mature implementation of HDMI 2.1 which should be very nice. Sony might announce a 940G or 900G this week which would be pretty damn good and likely will go up to 85" (that's what I have my eye on). Their presser is in 2 days. I think we'll know a lot more in next week... especially after reviewers get their hand on the new displays.

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post #11 of 25 Old 01-05-2019, 11:01 AM
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Supposedly it is true 48kbps but I would wait for reviews.
So far as I hear, LG hasn't said that their new premium TVs will have true 48kbps hdmi. I wonder why not.

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post #12 of 25 Old 01-05-2019, 11:03 AM
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So far as I hear, LG hasn't said that their new premium TVs will have true 48kbps hdmi. I wonder why not.
Several sites are reporting the opposite but LG is staying quiet. My guess is they still want people to watch/attend their presser on Monday.

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post #13 of 25 Old 01-05-2019, 11:19 AM
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So far as I hear, LG hasn't said that their new premium TVs will have true 48kbps hdmi. I wonder why not.
It may be a future firmware upgrade sort of what like Sony did. They just bumped up the 8.9Gbps bandwidth of HDMI 1.4 to 10.2Gbps, which was the gray area between HDMI 1.4 and 2.0 and called their sets HDMI 2.0 without any of the other benefits of HDMI 2.0.

With basic HDMI 2.1 protocols (chipsets) already on board though, a speed boost may be all that's needed. However, HDMI 2.1 is going to very confusing because not all device mfrs will probably implement the full complement of HDMI 2.1 so hopefully the mfrs will "list" which HDMI 2.1 protocols are being implemented. Really doesn't mean anything though because your other devices will have to have HDMI 2.1 chipsets that are implementing the same protocols. HDMI 2.1 will more than likely not be across the board for all mfrs when it comes to which feature sets will be utilized. I hate to say it but it sounds like the non-standardized CEC issue that we have now. Hard core gamers will probably be the first to see some benefit of HDMI 2.1 but it's going to be quite awhile before the rest of us see any benefit. I for one am not about to purchase all new devices just to take advantage of HDMI 2.1 (I just did that for my C8 ) and then be concerned if all of my devices are on the same "page".

And to top it off, we still don't know what the "special 48Gbps High Speed HDMI cable" will be and if the 9' maximum cable length has been overcome. Standardized certification protocols and programs are still a work in progress, regardless of what some cable mfrs are already claiming.

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post #14 of 25 Old 01-05-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by fonz5000 View Post
Buy top of the line 4K tv this summer:
- companies have had years to perfect upscaling
- get better back light/dimming technology for the money
- get better processing power for the money
- will be able to purchase an Oppo 4k dvd player with extra money

Wait and buy 8K in 2020
- get more pixels on a big screen
- assumed better picture quality and black levels
- HDMI 2.1
- there's not even 4K content now on DirectTV so expecting 8K content anywhere is almost laughable
- who knows how expensive 75" models will be even in 2020.
Going by the price of a Samsung Q900R a 75" 8kwill likely be out of budget range in 2020 (the 65" may be in budget range on sale).


For a 8k vs 4k example I've read the Q900R improved on the Q9FN (upscaling, motion etc). The level of Performance, Quality and Features you are after will impact your decision. If Samsung implements the changes they made on the Q900R into a 4k Q9FN in 2019 then personally I'd be GTG.


Edit: Cross off a new OPPO player as they're no longer being made/sold by OPPO. Only available on the resale market and the price is seriously jacked up.

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post #15 of 25 Old 01-05-2019, 01:19 PM
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If Samsung implements the changes they made on the Q900R into a 4k Q9FN in 2019 then personally I'd be GTG.
Do you mean a new 2019 model like the Q200R, with superior upscaling for instance, but scaled back to 4k, and of course cheaper? Yes, that would be good. However, would Samsung do that? This hypothetical new model would compete with the Q200R, which I suppose they have great hopes for. Don't hold your breath.

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post #16 of 25 Old 01-05-2019, 02:38 PM
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I would wait until the fall at least, not summer. Sony will very likely announce the Z9G (the successor to the Z9F, and hopefully a true successor to the Z9D) in 55”, 65”, and 75” sizes during IFA Berlin. If it is a true successor to the Z9D, then the picture quality should be excellent with great black levels and minimal-to-no blooming.

Also, Vizio will likely announce a 75” PQ-Series model sometime during the summer (which should have great black levels, little blooming, and great color volume like the 65” model from last year).

I honestly wouldn’t make 8K a priority at all. Unless you sit extremely close to the display or plan on getting a huge screen (85”+), the difference in pixels from 4K will be negligible at best.

HDMI 2.1 sounds great on paper but its actual practical use doesn’t seem to be there much. Other than VRR and eARC, the things it brings to AV technology will hardly be used by anyone, especially given the type of content available right now. Plus, VRR and eARC are possible anyway without an actual HDMI 2.1 input (the latest premium Samsung’s support VRR and are not technically HDMI 2.1). So I wouldn’t make this a priority either tbh.

Budget-wise, the 75” Vizio PQ-Series should definitely fall within it. From Sony, the immediate step-down from their premium model should fall within it as well (not sure about prices for the actual premium model). TCL might announce a 75” model with FALD but that’s not very likely. From LG, I would try to get a 77” C8, but if you game a lot or plan on watching content in a room with lots of ambient light, then it might not be the best option due to possible burn-in and lower brightness compared to LCD models. I would not recommend a Samsung based on past experience.


So, I would just recommend waiting for fall of this year to see what gets announced throughout the year until then and decide afterwards. Based on your wants and budget, a premium model from Vizio or the step-down from the premium model from Sony will probably and up being your better options. I was actually also excited to get a new display during this spring or summer, but after seeing how and when companies are announcing and releasing their new models, it seems best to wait until then before buying a new TV.

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post #17 of 25 Old 01-05-2019, 02:38 PM
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If you're waiting for 8k, you might as well wait for Micro LED too, as it will make OLED extinct probably in 6 years..... Anybody who doesn't think OLED will have the same fate as Plasma is kidding themselves... paying whatever the cost the 8k 88 inch OLED in 2019 is would be insane... I am thinking the cost could be up to 80k??? even if you're net worth is 5 million dollars, it would be a really stupid purchase imo.... You have to worry about burn in and OLED will be a dying technology as it will be replaced by Micro LED.

You have to have a gtx 1080ti sli system at the very least to do you best to get 8k 30fps in pc games currently. I'm assuming 8k blu ray could still be another 6 to 7 years off if bluray lasting 10 years before 4k blu ray came out is any indication... Tv broadcasting in 8k could mean nothing when it comes years from now because of the compression they would use and just call it 8k etc.... there is a chance the ps5.5 releasing in 2023/2024 could have 8k support as well as an xbox released at that time, but maybe not.

having said all this bullcrap.. I would get one of the new 4k OLED's this year with hdmi 2.1 and be good for 4 or 5 years before Micro LED 8k at non insane prices come into the market... OLED is just simply superior to QLED as long as you don't be an idiot and get burn in.

The poster above me is flat out wrong.. HDMI 2.1 is a HUUUGGGEE upgrade for gaming and I believe it can help with stutter and judder issues all OLED's have

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post #18 of 25 Old 01-05-2019, 07:45 PM
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The poster above me is flat out wrong.. HDMI 2.1 is a HUUUGGGEE upgrade for gaming and I believe it can help with stutter and judder issues all OLED's have

Some aspects of "HDMI 2.1" will certainly benefit gamers but it all depends on which feature sets of the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocols the device mfr can implement. Fully compliant HDMI 2.1 will not be available, only aspects of the HDMI 2.1 protocol sets (some of which can be implemented already with HDMI 2.0b) so while the mfr may call it HDMI 2.1 it won't be true, fully compliant HDMI 2.1 at 48Gbps. HDMI 2.1 this year is going to be full of smoke and mirrors with all kinds of claims being made but unless your source and sink device have the same HDMI 2.1 chipsets, or have upgradable HDMI 2.0b chipsets, and are utilizing the same feature set, you're gonna be disappointed. "Meets HDMI 2.1 standards", "HDMI 2.1 compliant", etc are just some of the buzz words that will be bantered around without the consumer even knowing which options of HDMI 2.1 are being implemented.


What would be nice is if whoever is pushing HDMI 2.1 on their device, list exactly which aspects are really part of the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocol sets, or just an option that can be implemented on current HDMI 2.0b hardware. However, we all know that the device mfrs won't do this because they are going to be throwing around HDMI 2.1 to the unsuspecting public just to make sales.



Cable connections will also be an issue because there aren't any recognized, standardized certification program in place, yet, that can actually validate HDMI 2.1 protocols at 48Gbps, regardless of mfr claims.



So no, @samovies10 is correct. And HDMI 2.1 or whatever you want to call it will probably have little or no effect on stutter/judder. I have a new 65 C8 OLED and it has no discernible stutter and/or judder (no macro blocking or flashing either).
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post #19 of 25 Old 01-07-2019, 12:47 PM
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Guess we didn't have to wait until summer to hear from Vizio. They announced some great models (75" sizes, 480 dimming zones, and Quantum tech!):

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...es-2019-a.html

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post #20 of 25 Old 01-08-2019, 06:49 PM
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In Australia we don't get Vizio of which I hear about quite a lot. Currently I have a Samsung AU60D8000 ...


What would be a decent upgrade to 75inch? I understand the smart TV side of things will be a little better however, I run my PC to it and that is 90% of my viewing then the rest via satellite. I think I've had this TV for about 5-6 years and the only reason I want an upgrade is size. This picture quality has been and still is really great, especially with HD sport (English football and F1 GP)


I'm all ears!

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post #21 of 25 Old 01-08-2019, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fonz5000 View Post
I know, I know... We can always be waiting for the next best tv.

I have a 65" Samsung HU9000 (one of the 1st 4k tv's). I have been in the market for a 75" (at least) tv for our theater-type room. I always told myself that I wasn't buying another LED tv for that room, and was only getting an OLED. The Sammy is good, but has horrible Light bleed and clouding compared to my new Sony 930d in my other living room. I also can only play 4K content through the Samsung apps on the tv.

I have now decided that I do not want to go smaller than a 75" tv, so unfortunately that rules out OLED, since the wife has set the budget at no more than $4000-$4500. I am also worried about burn-in if I game on it. But I want the BEST black levels I can get on an LED. I've stared at light bleed for too many years.

With CES around the corner and 8K being the only main upgrade, do get a top of the line 4k LED this summer, or now wait until 2020 and hope large 8K tv's are around $4000 ???? I don't have the ability to upgrade every year like some, so my next tv will need to last at least 4 years. Below is my thinking for each option:

Buy top of the line 4K tv this summer:
- companies have had years to perfect upscaling
- get better back light/dimming technology for the money
- get better processing power for the money
- will be able to purchase an Oppo 4k dvd player with extra money

Wait and buy 8K in 2020
- get more pixels on a big screen
- assumed better picture quality and black levels
- HDMI 2.1
- there's not even 4K content now on DirectTV so expecting 8K content anywhere is almost laughable
- who knows how expensive 75" models will be even in 2020.

What other things should I take into account?

Also, what do all of you do with your old tv's??? It's tough to sell a tv that's 5 yrs old when you can get a new one with better features now for pretty cheap.
8K is the new Marketing Gimmic. It’s the new 3D that was in 2011. There are no 8K Blu-ray players or 8K content its 4K Upscaled.

I sat on the fence all of 2017 and 2018
2019 I’m getting a 65” 4K LG OLED which features HDMI 2.1 spec compliance.
I,wont be paying $5,0000 or $4,000 for a 75” 8K TV now or In 2020. My budget max is $3,000 that’s $50 per month for 60 month over 5 years the length of a 5 Year Geek Squad Warranty. 5 years is a fair time for 8K to mature.
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post #22 of 25 Old 01-08-2019, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by htimseel View Post
In Australia we don't get Vizio of which I hear about quite a lot. Currently I have a Samsung AU60D8000 ...


What would be a decent upgrade to 75inch? I understand the smart TV side of things will be a little better however, I run my PC to it and that is 90% of my viewing then the rest via satellite. I think I've had this TV for about 5-6 years and the only reason I want an upgrade is size. This picture quality has been and still is really great, especially with HD sport (English football and F1 GP)


I'm all ears!
For Australia, I would keep my eyes on a TCL:

https://www.finder.com.au/tcl-ces-20...4k-android-tvs

They’re great bang-for-your-buck TVs and it seems the premium models will be available there. More dimming zones and Quantum tech seems to have made to at least one 75” model as well so I would recommend one of them.

Setup:
Display: ISF Pro Calibrated LG OLED65C7P TV 7.1.4 Sound: Denon AVR-X4400H, Sony Stereo (amp), Klipsch: RP-440C, RP-250F x 2, RP-150M x 4, RP-140SA x 4, R-10SW 4K Disc Players: Oppo UDP-203 (Region Free & Dolby Vision), Panasonic DP-UB820 Streaming Player: Apple TV 4K Video-Game Consoles: Xbox One X & PS4 Remotes: Logitech Harmony Elite Remote Control with Hub and iPad App
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post #23 of 25 Old 01-08-2019, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post
8K is the new Marketing Gimmic. It’s the new 3D that was in 2011. There are no 8K Blu-ray players or 8K content its 4K Upscaled.

I sat on the fence all of 2017 and 2018
2019 I’m getting a 65” 4K LG OLED which features HDMI 2.1 spec compliance.
I,wont be paying $5,0000 or $4,000 for a 75” 8K TV now or In 2020. My budget max is $3,000 that’s $50 per month for 60 month over 5 years the length of a 5 Year Geek Squad Warranty. 5 years is a fair time for 8K to mature.
That’s a good idea. I need something in the 75” range. I would love to grab a 77” Sony OLED ... lol. But again, I’m not spending $12,000
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post #24 of 25 Old 01-09-2019, 01:43 PM
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I know, I know... We can always be waiting for the next best tv.

I have a 65" Samsung HU9000 (one of the 1st 4k tv's). I have been in the market for a 75" (at least) tv for our theater-type room. I always told myself that I wasn't buying another LED tv for that room, and was only getting an OLED. The Sammy is good, but has horrible Light bleed and clouding compared to my new Sony 930d in my other living room. I also can only play 4K content through the Samsung apps on the tv.

I have now decided that I do not want to go smaller than a 75" tv, so unfortunately that rules out OLED, since the wife has set the budget at no more than $4000-$4500. I am also worried about burn-in if I game on it. But I want the BEST black levels I can get on an LED. I've stared at light bleed for too many years.

With CES around the corner and 8K being the only main upgrade, do get a top of the line 4k LED this summer, or now wait until 2020 and hope large 8K tv's are around $4000 ???? I don't have the ability to upgrade every year like some, so my next tv will need to last at least 4 years. Below is my thinking for each option:

Buy top of the line 4K tv this summer:
- companies have had years to perfect upscaling
- get better back light/dimming technology for the money
- get better processing power for the money
- will be able to purchase an Oppo 4k dvd player with extra money

Wait and buy 8K in 2020
- get more pixels on a big screen
- assumed better picture quality and black levels
- HDMI 2.1
- there's not even 4K content now on DirectTV so expecting 8K content anywhere is almost laughable
- who knows how expensive 75" models will be even in 2020.

What other things should I take into account?

Also, what do all of you do with your old tv's??? It's tough to sell a tv that's 5 yrs old when you can get a new one with better features now for pretty cheap.

Do like I did last year. Go to Amazon, and buy the previous year's top of the line Samsung or Sony. In 2018, I got the left over 2017 top of the line QLED 78" $15K TV for $5K, brand new on Amazon. Full warranty and everything. 70"+ 8K won't be down to $5K range for many years.
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post #25 of 25 Old 01-10-2019, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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If I don't care as much about the 8k, does HDMI 2.1 even matter???? My thinking is that I could wait and get the Sony 77" A9G OLED next year when it comes down in price. But it will be like $12,000 this year.

8k seems like it will only be really beneficial on tv's bigger than 75".
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