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post #421 of 752 Old 06-03-2019, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
I clicked on the Z9G thread and thought I was back in the "Switch from OLED to LCD" thread.
You'd think so, but there's a context in which that debate isn't out of place here. OLED has incomparable blacks but, for me, other drawbacks, such as size limitation and possible burn-in. I use my TV as a PC monitor and photo display as well as movie streamer, so an OLED would be a burn-in torture test I'm not willing to invest in. Also, I want a bigger screen than what OLED has. As you can see, it would be a big jump form my current 55" 905A, and I've been hoping each year would bring a model worth making the jump to, but for one reason or another have rejected them. So, the question is whether this Z9G, with its size advantage and 4000 nits for HDR, has blacks close enough to OLED blacks to make that issue moot. I think it does, and I think that's what Sony has in mind.
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post #422 of 752 Old 06-03-2019, 08:49 PM
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^if the G is anything like the D series from Sony then you shouldn't be disappointed, but that price tag though...
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post #423 of 752 Old 06-04-2019, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
^if the G is anything like the D series from Sony then you shouldn't be disappointed, but that price tag though...
I couldn’t agree more. Other than the poor anti-reflection filter, the G looks like the real deal if you can afford it.

If a person can wait until Black Friday sales, you will definitely get one for a more reasonable price.
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post #424 of 752 Old 06-04-2019, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BRAC View Post
I couldn’t agree more. Other than the poor anti-reflection filter, the G looks like the real deal if you can afford it.

If a person can wait until Black Friday sales, you will definitely get one for a more reasonable price.

Define 'reasonable'....

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post #425 of 752 Old 06-04-2019, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Coercion Shaman View Post
Define 'reasonable'....
Past experience tells me maybe ~10g. Still pricey, but not insane all things considered.
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post #426 of 752 Old 06-04-2019, 05:57 AM
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Maybe by Black Friday reviewers will actually get access to one for more than a few hours and detailed reviews will be available...
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post #427 of 752 Old 06-04-2019, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAC View Post
I couldn’t agree more. Other than the poor anti-reflection filter, the G looks like the real deal if you can afford it.

If a person can wait until Black Friday sales, you will definitely get one for a more reasonable price.
Agreed, Black Friday or possibly wait until next year!
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post #428 of 752 Old 06-04-2019, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
This is true.
65" is 18² inches per zone
75" is 8.7² inches per zone
85" is 4.7² inches per zone

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post


Just so you know the Z9F was only in 65 and 75".

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Yeah I was wondering what mystical 85" Z9F was being discussed here .... (?)
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post #429 of 752 Old 06-04-2019, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mithras1 View Post
Yeah I was wondering what mystical 85" Z9F was being discussed here .... (?)
I assumed the 85” number posted there was referencing the Z9G.
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post #430 of 752 Old 06-04-2019, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mithras1 View Post
Yeah I was wondering what mystical 85" Z9F was being discussed here .... (?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAC View Post
I assumed the 85” number posted there was referencing the Z9G.
Yes sorry, the z9g.

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post #431 of 752 Old 06-05-2019, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Yes sorry, the z9g.

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Makes sense in hindsight , I must've still been caught up in the BMD "drama" that seemed to dominate the last posts and thinking of the 75Z9D zone count for the 75" (so was wondering how it could be so much better on an 85" set. Meant to do the math myself on the 75Z9D coverage vs 85Z9G but hadn't gotten around to it yet. Maybe the 98" still has single LED control).
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post #432 of 752 Old 06-05-2019, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mithras1 View Post
Makes sense in hindsight , I must've still been caught up in the BMD "drama" that seemed to dominate the last posts and thinking of the 75Z9D zone count for the 75" (so was wondering how it could be so much better on an 85" set. Meant to do the math myself on the 75Z9D coverage vs 85Z9G but hadn't gotten around to it yet. Maybe the 98" still has single LED control).
The 75Z9D is 3.1² inches per zone

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post #433 of 752 Old 06-05-2019, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mithras1 View Post
Makes sense in hindsight , I must've still been caught up in the BMD "drama" that seemed to dominate the last posts and thinking of the 75Z9D zone count for the 75" (so was wondering how it could be so much better on an 85" set. Meant to do the math myself on the 75Z9D coverage vs 85Z9G but hadn't gotten around to it yet. Maybe the 98" still has single LED control).
Was the zone count on the 85Z9G released?
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post #434 of 752 Old 06-05-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Was the zone count on the 85Z9G released?
A couple of reviews stated that with their scrolling white box test, they counted in the range of 720 or so.
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post #435 of 752 Old 06-05-2019, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post


Just so you know the Z9F was only in 65 and 75".

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Oops! I knew that. I blame you.
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post #436 of 752 Old 06-05-2019, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post
A couple of reviews stated that with their scrolling white box test, they counted in the range of 720 or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Was the zone count on the 85Z9G released?
Yes, HDTV Test and Flatpanels had it at 36x20 and another at 35x20 so probably thereabouts (I remember HDTV Test always getting told by Sony that it was around the number [bit higher iirc] they counted for the Z9D; the 100" was around 1000 zones iirc, perhaps the same for the 98" Z9G although the Polish reviewers had difficulty counting and only came up with a number of 396).

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Please enlighten me

I have read my 75" Z9D has 800 individual leds that make up a "zone". Whereas, the 85" Z9G has around 720 zones.

Are the zones laid out different in the sets? The Z9D one led per zone. Does the Z9G have more than one led that makes up a zone??

I'm getting very interested in the 85" Z9G and trying to understand the TV


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Trusted Reviews posted a Sony KD-85ZG9 Review today: https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/sony-kd-85zg9

Quote:
What really helps the KD-85ZG9’s HDR pictures pop, however, is the combination of its extreme brightness with the contrast control provided by having more than 700 separate dimming zones. This enables it to deliver impressively deep black levels and seriously punchy light highlights within a single shot.

What’s more, despite the image’s brightness, the KD-85ZG9 delivers its high levels of HDR dynamism without throwing up much backlight blooming around stand-out bright objects. In fact, the lighting system’s ability to pick out very small but extremely bright HDR highlights is like nothing I’ve seen before. As is its ability to hold on to high levels of brightness when showing uniformly bright HDR pictures.

The Sony KD-85ZG9’s excellent contrast performance is miles better than that of Sony’s previous flagship 4K TV, the KD-65ZF9 – even though the new 8K TV uses the wide viewing angle technology that contributed to the KD-65ZF9’s contrast issues.

I can’t say if this improvement is purely down to the 8K model’s Sony’s Backlight Master Drive lighting system, or whether Sony has somehow tweaked the wide angle technology. But it’s a huge relief to find that the Sony KD-85ZG9’s pictures hold up from any angle, yet now also enjoy good core black levels.
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post #439 of 752 Old 06-06-2019, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post
A couple of reviews stated that with their scrolling white box test, they counted in the range of 720 or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mithras1 View Post
Yes, HDTV Test and Flatpanels had it at 36x20 and another at 35x20 so probably thereabouts (I remember HDTV Test always getting told by Sony that it was around the number [bit higher iirc] they counted for the Z9D; the 100" was around 1000 zones iirc, perhaps the same for the 98" Z9G although the Polish reviewers had difficulty counting and only came up with a number of 396).
Well hopefully that is enough zones to be a good replacement for the Z9D.....

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Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post
Please enlighten me

I have read my 75" Z9D has 800 individual leds that make up a "zone". Whereas, the 85" Z9G has around 720 zones.

Are the zones laid out different in the sets? The Z9D one led per zone. Does the Z9G have more than one led that makes up a zone??
They have to be laid out differently, not as many zones.
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post #440 of 752 Old 06-06-2019, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
They have to be laid out differently, not as many zones.
According to Vincent Teoh the 75z9d has 40 x 20 zones and the 85z9g has 36 x 20 zones. The attached image visualizes the zone/size difference.
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post #441 of 752 Old 06-06-2019, 12:44 PM
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Bickering removed, infractions issued.

Discuss the topic and not each other.
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post #442 of 752 Old 06-07-2019, 09:38 AM
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So, what is the Z9G's benchmark for comparison? Is it OLED or another LCD panel? Or projection? Don't mean this as a sales pitch. You know my bias for this set.

Vincent Teoh corroborates the 4000 nits peak brightness, a DolbyVision benchmark. It's generally accepted Sony motion handling, upscaling algorithm, color gamut and accuracy are superior to other TVs. I argue again, that 8K is essential for these sizes at ordinary living room distances. The Z9G brings back the Backlight Master Drive whose absence was a big flaw of the Z7F, moving Z9G blacks close enough to OLED blacks to make the difference insignificant (including the trade-off of inky black for shadow detail), against the many pluses, especially "full" HDR achievable with 4000 nits. And personally I was surprised at the launch price, which, given the specs and compared to the 77" A1E's $20K launch price, is reasonable.

Since none of us own the Z9G or peers yet, the discussion comes down to a buying decision. Based purely on specs and reviews, is there another current consumer TV that can be compared head-to-head with this one? Of course, there's an overall subjectivity factor, too: Some people (including me) just like one TV's picture over another.

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post #443 of 752 Old 06-07-2019, 10:15 AM
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z9g

Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjack View Post
So, what is the Z9G's benchmark for comparison? Is it OLED or another LCD panel? Or projection? Don't mean this as a sales pitch. You know my bias for this set.



Vincent Teoh corroborates the 4000 nits peak brightness, a DolbyVision benchmark. It's generally accepted Sony motion handling, upscaling algorithm, color gamut and accuracy are superior to other TVs. I argue again, that 8K is essential for these sizes at ordinary living room distances. The Z9G brings back the Backlight Master Drive which absence was a big flaw of the Z7F.



So I argue that the blacks here are close enough to OLED blacks to make the difference insignificant (including the trade-off of inky black for shadow detail), given the "full" HDR achievable with 4000 nits. And personally I was surprised at the launch price, which, given the specs and compared to the 77" A1E's $20K launch price, is reasonable.



Since none of us own the Z9G or peers yet, the discussion comes down to a buying decision. Based purely on specs and reviews, is there another current consumer TV of which you'd rather buy than this one? of course, there's an overall subjectivity factor, too: Some people (including me) just like one TV's picture over another.
As great as this tv looks on paper, I still think the anti-reflection filter is a HUGE weak point for such an expensive set. Obviously if you’re placing the Z9G in a bat cave this is a moot point, but for my living room theater it is a non starter, especially at Sony’s asking price!

I never understood the importance of a good anti-reflection filter until I switched from the Z9F to a Q90. I can actually watch dark movies during the day now. Talk about a huge change to my daytime viewing habits and enjoyment.
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Shocking Update: 85Z9G is amazing.

Was at a Sony training yesterday and on the same table as the Z9F, A9G it completely embarrasses the others. Hilariously different.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by amblinfan View Post
Shocking Update: 85Z9G is amazing.



Was at a Sony training yesterday and on the same table as the Z9F, A9G it completely embarrasses the others. Hilariously different.
In what ways does it embarrass the others? Care to elaborate?

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post #446 of 752 Old 06-07-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by amblinfan View Post
Shocking Update: 85Z9G is amazing.

Was at a Sony training yesterday and on the same table as the Z9F, A9G it completely embarrasses the others. Hilariously different.

This can't be true as others who have never seen one continually disparage this set. You must certainly be wrong.
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post #447 of 752 Old 06-07-2019, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coercion Shaman View Post
This can't be true as others who have never seen one continually disparage this set. You must certainly be wrong.
I mean, i don't think i am but to each his own. I echo Vincent's thoughts. It's HDR performance is completely and utterly unrivaled. I really doubt many have seen it. Sony has 2 demos. Period. Again sitting next to other flagships playing same content it was astonishingly realistic. Better black level performance and little blooming vs the Z9F obviously and just absolutely crushes the OLED in realistic HDR performance.

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post #448 of 752 Old 06-07-2019, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amblinfan View Post
I mean, i don't think i am but to each his own. I echo Vincent's thoughts. It's HDR performance is completely and utterly unrivaled. I really doubt many have seen it. Sony has 2 demos. Period. Again sitting next to other flagships playing same content it was astonishingly realistic. Better black level performance and little blooming vs the Z9F obviously and just absolutely crushes the OLED in realistic HDR performance.

I think there was irony there.
People who haven't seen one are knocking it,
while you've actually seen one,
so you must be wrong. Wink, wink.

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Last edited by lbjack; 06-07-2019 at 12:23 PM. Reason: format
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post #449 of 752 Old 06-07-2019, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjack View Post
Since none of us own the Z9G or peers yet, the discussion comes down to a buying decision. Based purely on specs and reviews, is there another current consumer TV of which you'd rather buy than this one? of course, there's an overall subjectivity factor, too: Some people (including me) just like one TV's picture over another.
I am one of those torn souls making that decision. I am deciding between an 82" Q90, 82"Q900 and the Z9G. I believe the reviews that I have read in that the Z9G offers the most stunning picture available. I really wish Sony didn't put so many speakers in this thing though because the additional height incurred now encroaches over my fireplace mantle and it sure would make it easier to lift up 7ft to mount without that extra weight. It is not a show-stopper, I can have it overlap but its not ideal. The other knock is the lack of full HDMI 2.1 support, specifically VRR, is pretty disappointing for a flagship product. If I went the Z9G route my next upgrade would be for micro-LED in 4 or 5 years assuming it comes to fruition.

The Q90 is probably the most sane purchase to make as a stop-gap. Excellent picture quality, fast response times and VRR support. It is reasonably priced compared to the Q900 and Z9G. Purchasing the Q90R would give 2 years or so for 8K tech to be refined and then I would upgrade at that point to the latest/greatest.

The Q900 is appetizing because it currently affords the second highest light output next to the Z9G and is more affordable considering the street price is no where near the MSRP. I believe in 8K displays and when I compared this in store next to the Q90 the picture was clearer on the Q900 in my opinion. If it had Dolby Vision support I would be more compelled to take the leap, but as it stands I feel like it is in no-mans land. I don't think this would keep me happy for 3-4 years.

I am waiting on the Z9G to hit the streets before making a decision so that I can see what dealer pricing looks like.
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post #450 of 752 Old 06-07-2019, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coercion Shaman View Post
This can't be true as others who have never seen one continually disparage this set. You must certainly be wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjack View Post
I think there was irony there.
People who haven't seen one are knocking it,
while you've actually seen one,
so you must be wrong. Wink, wink.
Ahh, yeah, internet...

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