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post #481 of 815 Old 06-09-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by egrady View Post
Vincent's review is enlightening. He suggests that consumers looking to watch movies in a dark room would go OLED. By pushing the HDR light output Sony opted for the highest nit count in exchange for more blooming and higher black levels. Samsung sort of split the difference. By all accounts the Q90 has a lower black level and a higher ANSI contrast ratio. At least on the 65". Still, this may not hold true comparing the 82" Samsung to the Z9G as, with the same zone count as the 65", the 82Q90's blacks/contrast/blooming is bound to suffer.


I'm going to demo the Z9G as soon as it comes out. I'm going to use the scene from Sicario where Benito Del Toro is in the police cruiser giving orders to the officer. It is extremely dark and has subtitles. If it blooms worse than my Sony 940D, or has a higher black level, it's DQ'd no matter how bright it's HDR highlights are. Such a set is for football at a sports bar, not my HT.


Don't get me wrong, I really want to buy one. Hence, I'm hoping to be surprised by what I see.
I decided to try that scene from Sicario you mentioned on my 82” Q90 today, just for fun. Blooming was basically non existent on my Q90 and blacks were inky black. Very impressive! Makes me wonder how that scene would have held up on my former 75” Z9F.

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post #482 of 815 Old 06-09-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post
I am one of those torn souls making that decision. I am deciding between an 82" Q90, 82"Q900 and the Z9G.
I made my decision and went with the 82 Q900. After looking at the pictures the format of the bottom of the Z9G wasn't as skinny as I thought it was, it appears the full 5" thickness is present at the bottom meaning that I would have the entire thickness of the TV sticking out in front of my fireplace mantle. My girlfriend already puts up with the 9.2.8 Atmos set-up I have (including massive subwoofers in our living room), as I bachelor I may have said screw it and got the Z9G but I just couldn't justify putting her through even more "man caving" of our living room.

I will be jealous of all you future Z9G owners, there is no doubt in my mind that it will offer the most stunning picture of any TV with hits crazy good HDR presentation.
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post #483 of 815 Old 06-09-2019, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post
I made my decision and went with the 82 Q900. After looking at the pictures the format of the bottom of the Z9G wasn't as skinny as I thought it was, it appears the full 5" thickness is present at the bottom meaning that I would have the entire thickness of the TV sticking out in front of my fireplace mantle. My girlfriend already puts up with the 9.2.8 Atmos set-up I have (including massive subwoofers in our living room), as I bachelor I may have said screw it and got the Z9G but I just couldn't justify putting her through even more "man caving" of our living room.

I will be jealous of all you future Z9G owners, there is no doubt in my mind that it will offer the most stunning picture of any TV with hits crazy good HDR presentation.
After all of that...you decide to draw the line at not having your tv stick out an extra 2-3”??

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post #484 of 815 Old 06-09-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BRAC View Post
I decided to try that scene from Sicario you mentioned on my 82” Q90 today, just for fun. Blooming was basically non existent on my Q90 and blacks were inky black. Very impressive! Makes me wonder how that scene would have held up on my former 75” Z9F.
4k HDR version? Minimal blooming on the subtitles?
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post #485 of 815 Old 06-09-2019, 05:35 PM
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4k HDR version? Minimal blooming on the subtitles?
Yes, exactly.

I’m very sensitive to blooming. Blooming and poor anti-reflection handling are the 2 reasons why I ended up returning my Z9F.

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post #486 of 815 Old 06-09-2019, 05:44 PM
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After all of that...you decide to draw the line at not having your tv stick out an extra 2-3”??
Negative. My mantle is 8", so now it would be 8" + 5" = 13" out from the wall. Previously I thought the bezel was notched out from the base to accommodate the speaker (meaning I could tuck the majority of the TV on-top of the mantle), but as mentioned my impression was false based on the images I looked at.

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post #487 of 815 Old 06-09-2019, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAC View Post
I decided to try that scene from Sicario you mentioned on my 82” Q90 today, just for fun. Blooming was basically non existent on my Q90 and blacks were inky black. Very impressive! Makes me wonder how that scene would have held up on my former 75” Z9F.
The 75 holds up very well.... There are a few low APL scenes in that movie it struggles some.

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post #488 of 815 Old 06-09-2019, 11:57 PM
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Just to let you know the Z9G will be $26,000 Ozzie Dollars. I wish it would be $14,000 US Dollars even $16,500 as we payed $14,000 for a LG 86 inch Lemon IPS tv here in Australia three years ago.

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post #489 of 815 Old 06-10-2019, 06:37 AM
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Just to let you know the Z9G will be $26,000 Ozzie Dollars. I wish it would be $14,000 US Dollars even $16,500 as we payed $14,000 for a LG 86 inch Lemon IPS tv here in Australia three years ago.


Ouch! Based on that, I’m guessing close to $20,000 CAD.

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post #490 of 815 Old 06-10-2019, 07:23 AM
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I'll be waiting to see what you discover

I would like to get the Z9G BUT do not want to get rid of the Z9D just for an 85" TV. The Z9G must come close the Z9D
Ya right? Its easy to gain the size but can you keep the picture quality...?
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post #491 of 815 Old 06-10-2019, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by egrady View Post
Vincent's review is enlightening. He suggests that consumers looking to watch movies in a dark room would go OLED. By pushing the HDR light output Sony opted for the highest nit count in exchange for more blooming and higher black levels. Samsung sort of split the difference.
You misstate what Vincent said. There are two "exchanges": Sony's blooming and higher black levels in exchange for "Sony's philosophy...to adhere to picture accuracy" and Samsung's less blooming and darker blacks in exchange for "tricks by crushing shadow detail and...by darkening the brighter elements."

There will always be HDR blooming of an honest (as opposed to Samsung's tricked-out) FALD picture, because FALD hasn't the pixel-level luminance control of OLED. But OLED will not soon, if ever, achieve 4000 nits peak brightness, so for a FALD TV to achieve an accurate HDR picture at the 4000 nits DV benchmark, blooming and less-than-OLED blacks are inevitable. By the way, Vincent says no SDR blooming on the Z9G and less HDR blooming on the Z9G than the Z9F.

The debate isn't which TV is "better," but which trade-off you prefer. I go for picture accuracy at the cost of less-than-OLED blacks and some blooming in HDR. Also, the prospect of a huge 8K screen that can accommodate full-spec HDR blows me away, rendering the trade-offs insignificant.

It occurs to me that one could tweak/calibrate down 4000 nits peak luminance to minimize blooming and maximize blackness and still accommodate HDR with minimal clipping, and have the other superior Z9G features, like picture detail, motion handling and color gamut and accuracy. Rather that, than tweaking up the source HDR luminance to a screen spec that isn't there.

My posts sound like I'm selling myself on this model. Not a slavish Sony fanboy, my TV history is B&O, Sony, Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Phillips, Samsung, Sony. Love my 55" Sony, while waiting for a wall-size panel. Now, finally, it looks like with this model, Sony ticks all the boxes I care about.

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post #492 of 815 Old 06-10-2019, 02:57 PM
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You misstate what Vincent said. There are two "exchanges": Sony's blooming and higher black levels in exchange for "Sony's philosophy...to adhere to picture accuracy" and Samsung's less blooming and darker blacks in exchange for "tricks by crushing shadow detail and...by darkening the brighter elements."
I can't see between the protons, neutrons an electrons enough to find any misstatement. Pushing HDR nit levels raises black level and increases blooming. Adding shadow detail and color issues are additional points to consider, but my omission of same doesn't misstate what I focused on, black levels and blooming.

The rest of your comment clearly illustrates the different philosophies with these additional elements. I'm intrigued by your thought of using the picture settings in order to move toward deeper blacks and less blooming, an excellent thought. Perhaps we can have chocolate and vanilla after all.
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post #493 of 815 Old 06-10-2019, 03:30 PM
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Pushing HDR nit levels raises black level and increases blooming.
That may be true, but this isn't what Vincent said, as you claim.

You represent that Vincent said: "Sony opted for the highest nit count in exchange for more blooming and higher black levels." He did NOT say that. He said, "highest nit count in exchange for more blooming and higher black levels". Those are your words. Vincent said "more shadow detail and brighter brights" in exchange for more blooming and higher black levels. He also said Sumsung uses tricks to lower blooming by "crushing shadow detail" (his words). I hope you can see the vast difference between what you claim he said and what he actually said.

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post #494 of 815 Old 06-10-2019, 03:45 PM
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That may be true, but this isn't what Vincent said, as you claim.

You represent that Vincent said: "Sony opted for the highest nit count in exchange for more blooming and higher black levels." He did NOT say that. He said, "highest nit count in exchange for more blooming and higher black levels". Those are your words. Vincent said "more shadow detail and brighter brights" in exchange for more blooming and higher black levels. He also said Sumsung uses tricks to lower blooming by "crushing shadow detail" (his words). I hope you can see the vast difference between what you claim he said and what he actually said.
I don't have any more time to waste on this molecular parsing.
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Ouch! Based on that, I’m guessing close to $20,000 CAD.

Yes just way to expensive. Most of us would like a Z9G in 85 inch that has the full specs including around 3900 nits peak brightness (I settle for less like 3000-3500) and only in 4K and if they can do this and sell it in the US for $9000, in Australia around $12000 and in Canada around $10,000 most will buy it but I'm not going to spend $26,000 on a TV.

I remember when the very first LG 86 inch 4K tv came out 8 years ago it was 3840X 2160P and I think it had NO HDR and it retailed for in Australia $19,890 just under 20K

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post #496 of 815 Old 06-10-2019, 04:44 PM
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Just received a call from a Best Buy Design Center employee (San Diego, CA) about 70 miles from me to inform me that they weren't going to get the 85" Z9G.

But good news the Magnolia store in San Francisco has one and that's only a 450 mile drive for me.

I'm sorry that's just too far. Looks like my only hope to actual view the set might be a Frye's Electronic store.

This is going to be a tough set to see.

He did say he has heard a rumor that Sony might be coming out with a 75" Z9G.


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post #497 of 815 Old 06-10-2019, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjack View Post

There will always be HDR blooming of an honest (as opposed to Samsung's tricked-out) FALD picture, because FALD hasn't the pixel-level luminance control of OLED. But OLED will not soon, if ever, achieve 4000 nits peak brightness, so for a FALD TV to achieve an accurate HDR picture at the 4000 nits DV benchmark, blooming and less-than-OLED blacks are inevitable. By the way, Vincent says no SDR blooming on the Z9G and less HDR blooming on the Z9G than the Z9F.

The debate isn't which TV is "better," but which trade-off you prefer. I go for picture accuracy at the cost of less-than-OLED blacks and some blooming in HDR. Also, the prospect of a huge 8K screen that can accommodate full-spec HDR blows me away, rendering the trade-offs insignificant.
I agree!

One also has to remember that that the human eye is not that good. Yes, you can pause a scene and look for blooming. You can also use a camera and look for it.

If 10% of the screen is at 2000-4000 nits your eye will be hard pressed to see any blooming without pausing the picture and looking away (and possibly shielding your eyes) from the bright content to find it.

So, one is really limited to seeing blooming/gray blacks in the darkest of scenes (infamous star field). I suspect that quite a large number of people will be willing to live with the small percentage of scenes that are problematic when they get the true HDR 4000 nit experience on almost all their viewing. It is a percentage game, if you only watch planetarium like content this TV is not for you...
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post #498 of 815 Old 06-11-2019, 09:54 AM
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I agree!

One also has to remember that that the human eye is not that good. Yes, you can pause a scene and look for blooming. You can also use a camera and look for it.

If 10% of the screen is at 2000-4000 nits your eye will be hard pressed to see any blooming without pausing the picture and looking away (and possibly shielding your eyes) from the bright content to find it.

So, one is really limited to seeing blooming/gray blacks in the darkest of scenes (infamous star field). I suspect that quite a large number of people will be willing to live with the small percentage of scenes that are problematic when they get the true HDR 4000 nit experience on almost all their viewing. It is a percentage game, if you only watch planetarium like content this TV is not for you...
Forgot to add, I always use a little bias lighting, so I'm never in pitch dark, so the blacks always look subjectively pure and I've never said to myself, Look, blooming. In any case never enough to detract from the beautiful color this Sony gives me. By the way, I have the European version of the 905A, I think 905B, in a little place I have in Denmark. PAL really sets off the mediocrity of NTSC broadcast standards! We Americans have been living in blissful ignorance! Eventually, Europeans will get direct 8K broadcasts (probably sooner than USA), and the experience will explain Vincent's enthusiasm.

By the way, when on, the screen is never a dark blank but an endless slideshow of light images. I hope everybody (including OLED guys feeling lucky ) uses his screen likewise. Can't wait to see photography like this, at full resolution and dynamic range, in 8K on a Z9G.
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I agree!

One also has to remember that that the human eye is not that good. Yes, you can pause a scene and look for blooming. You can also use a camera and look for it.

If 10% of the screen is at 2000-4000 nits your eye will be hard pressed to see any blooming without pausing the picture and looking away (and possibly shielding your eyes) from the bright content to find it.

So, one is really limited to seeing blooming/gray blacks in the darkest of scenes (infamous star field). I suspect that quite a large number of people will be willing to live with the small percentage of scenes that are problematic when they get the true HDR 4000 nit experience on almost all their viewing. It is a percentage game, if you only watch planetarium like content this TV is not for you...

Blooming isn't the only concern. Flatpanel HD measured an HDR black level of .25 and a contrast ratio of 4400/1. I'm afraid numbers like that will impact more scenes than you suggest.
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Best Buy is showing inventory now and is now on website MSRP is what has been reported.

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Best Buy is showing inventory now and is now on website MSRP is what has been reported.

They have them in stock and you can save $1 on Amazon...
BB would price match, though....
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Best Buy is showing inventory now and is now on website MSRP is what has been reported.

They have them in stock and you can save $1 on Amazon... [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif[/IMG]
BB would price match, though....[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Yeah and I can use my bb points and save another $5 bucks!!! 😉

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85Z9G

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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85Z9G

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And...how does it look? Any first impressions to share?

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Such a nice tb on a pedestrian lamp desk! Up your game! Need some RGB lighting too.

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post #506 of 815 Old 06-12-2019, 11:18 AM
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I was looking at the price of the z9g and wondering if its really worth it because the 77inch sony a9g oled goes for 7 grand and the 82 inch samsung q90 goes for 6 grand so you could have the best picture that money can buy with the oled and the q90 which is one of the best tv for a bright room because of the anti reflective tech, two awesome tvs for the same price of the z9g.
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post #507 of 815 Old 06-12-2019, 11:38 AM
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apparently this tv is like 10 inches thick lol
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post #508 of 815 Old 06-12-2019, 01:07 PM
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Last edited by moby63; 06-12-2019 at 01:11 PM.
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post #509 of 815 Old 06-12-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post
Very wise thinking.

I think about the Z9D and I wonder why I am even thinking about do this
^ Better motion, upscaling, sharpness, brightness, color accuracy, faster UI, etc. etc. etc.??

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post #510 of 815 Old 06-12-2019, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
apparently this tv is like 10 inches thick lol
I'd say just under 5 inches.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
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