2019 Sony XBR X950G Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 39 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1141 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Lang View Post
Too many people focusing on various third party measurements vs. actually looking at screens with their own eyes.
The challenge is that most stores don't have an at home lighting environment plus the buyer has no idea of the settings being used. Consequently the need to rely on professional reviews.

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post #1142 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 12:31 PM
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Thank you for clarifying my question. It was my curiosity to understand why a minor contrast in the last few years did not mean worse levels of black.

So probably the best black and deepest levels should be due to the new processor itself and not the contrast.

If so, this may be an answer from the X1 Ultimate with its dual processing power, the fact that it analyzes object by object more accurately and with super-resolution.

And curious is that our friend with his real experience says between the models he has X90F and the X95G (version X that worsens the contrast) finds the black levels better in the X95G.

Thank you for your contribution. I'll get the 55 "

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post #1143 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 12:35 PM
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More future review - Vicent Teoh (X95G model 65")

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post #1144 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by PlanetAVS View Post
The challenge is that most stores don't have an at home lighting environment plus the buyer has no idea of the settings being used. Consequently the need to rely on professional reviews.
Which completely removes individual perception. It's the same problem as in audio where different people swear different amps or even cables dramatically change the sound where the measurements are the same.

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post #1145 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by js950 View Post
The comment didn't relate to value at current pricing. A bit better is a small amount. You sell them. Set a couple 65s up properly next to each other and tell us.
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Originally Posted by VA_DaveB View Post
It should be quite different since the 75" X950G has the X-Wide Angle Layer while the 900E and 900F do not. It should be more like a dimmer version of the Z9F. The 55" and 65" X950G sets should just be a minor upgrade from the 900F mostly due to greater brightness and hopefully better FALD processing.
I am not saying it will not be better, I am saying its not like a Z9D or OLED better.....

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Originally Posted by Expono#1 View Post
I have both the Sony 85 900F and the new 75 950G

The black level on both Tv's are very good. I think the overall color and punch are better with the 950G having a better
picture it has more pop then the 900F and to me the improvement is noticeable.

I really like Sony's Processing the Hockey is amazing the puck is clear and no ghosting or DSE is seen by my eyes.

I also have a Sony A9F and its the best of the best to me. The 950G gets close but not its not OLED.

For those of you with last years 900F I would say go look at the 950G in person and see if you think its worth upgrading
To me it has more of everything but let your eyes tell you not anybody else

TC
Great advise.
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post #1146 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 03:07 PM
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Good point about the 950G wide angle viewing. That 900F is at such a sweet spot right now IMO. Tough decisions.


I know right when I buy, the friggin 77 OLED will fall right to $3500.
Yeah, but imagine paying $3,500.00 and then seeing burn-in within a year.
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post #1147 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Lang View Post
Too many people focusing on various third party measurements vs. actually looking at screens with their own eyes.
To me, it's perhaps even better to rely on reviews rather than personal viewing. First, who knows how the TV's at Best Buy, etc might have been "adjusted" either by BB employees or by customers fooling around with a remote. Second, in the Best Buys near me, they're always running programming that I presume was provided by the manufacturer that really shows off a TV to its best...will it look anywhere near that good in my home? Often TV's at stores are placed in such fashion that viewing distance isn't realistic in the home (sure, when you're standing 4 feet from the TV in an aisle when what you really need is to be able to stand 10' back like your home but you can't because of the placement of said TV within the store aisles).

At least with good reviews (rtings.com, cnet, etc etc) you'd like to think that they are testing all TV's in the exact same fashion so as to provide the consume with good apples to apples comparisons...
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post #1148 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 03:32 PM
 
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It's based on assumptions. The 950G tested better contrast than the 900F at one site that did both. Contrast on the Z9F is known to be meh. 950 in picture contrast 'appeared' to be worse than z9f to one member so it's 'assumed' to be worse than the z9f and 900e. Either the contrast spec as measured isn't telling the whole story, the observation is wrong or the 900f doesn't actually appear to have better in picture contrast to the z9f despite the measurements. I suspect it a mix of these. We know that the z9f suffers blooming into the bars but there's a reason it's picture is often lauded in unbiased observation. There has been no complaining about in picture contrast by owners. It's all related to blooming. There's more to contrast than the simple large checkerboard test. It also seem that Sony used a lower contrast panel in the z9f the get even better viewing angle than the 950G which has so far been reported to have about the same contrast as the 900f in the 75" and a bit worse dispersion than the z9f. All of this needs corroboration over time and may be wrong but that is sort of where my head is at on these at the moment.
No blooming in my Z9F. Tired of people that don't own the set that are experts on it and diss it every chance they get
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post #1149 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 04:15 PM
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It's a really good TV

I just registered on here to give my quick, none technical 2 cents worth on the 65 inch version of the 950g that I picked up two days ago at BB. My 65 inch 930e was stolen a few weeks ago so I had to decide if I was willing to wait on the release of the 950g or get something else. Well, suffice it to say, I am super glad that I waited on the release! Very well worth it. The 930e was and is a good Tv. This 950g IMHO whips it right out of the box. The picture on the 950 just pops with just the standard setting right out of the gate. I haven't touched a thing yet. It's just a wow. Very bright and the blacks are black. I realize I am comparing this set with a 2 year old set but some here were saying that this tv was going to be maybe no improvement to the old 930e. That couldn't be further from the truth in my view. I don't have a 900 to compare to but I can say that this is a great tv if you are thinking about something new. The new Android system is a ton better. The new remote rocks and the voice feature seems to work much better. Audio is good for a flat panel tv but I did pair it with a new HTZ9F so yeah, I'm happy. The tv is set up in the same location as the old 930 was and seating is the same. I use direct tv and there are windows in a brightish room. Hope this basic review helps for some. Like someone said earlier. Get your eyes on it and maybe let some more reviews come out before passing judgement. I think you might be surprised. If anyone has any questions I'll try to help but I'm not a tech guy. I just like good tv's and have always liked sony products. Cheers!
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post #1150 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bnsutton View Post
I just registered on here to give my quick, none technical 2 cents worth on the 65 inch version of the 950g that I picked up two days ago at BB. My 65 inch 930e was stolen a few weeks ago so I had to decide if I was willing to wait on the release of the 950g or get something else. Well, suffice it to say, I am super glad that I waited on the release! Very well worth it. The 930e was and is a good Tv. This 950g IMHO whips it right out of the box. The picture on the 950 just pops with just the standard setting right out of the gate. I haven't touched a thing yet. It's just a wow. Very bright and the blacks are black. I realize I am comparing this set with a 2 year old set but some here were saying that this tv was going to be maybe no improvement to the old 930e. That couldn't be further from the truth in my view. I don't have a 900 to compare to but I can say that this is a great tv if you are thinking about something new. The new Android system is a ton better. The new remote rocks and the voice feature seems to work much better. Audio is good for a flat panel tv but I did pair it with a new HTZ9F so yeah, I'm happy. The tv is set up in the same location as the old 930 was and seating is the same. I use direct tv and there are windows in a brightish room. Hope this basic review helps for some. Like someone said earlier. Get your eyes on it and maybe let some more reviews come out before passing judgement. I think you might be surprised. If anyone has any questions I'll try to help but I'm not a tech guy. I just like good tv's and have always liked sony products. Cheers!
Thanks Joe from Sony Corporation of America.
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post #1151 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by schumy View Post
How does 75" x950G compare to 75" x940E in terms of black level and contrast in real life?

I owned a 75x940E before and was most impressed with it's black and contrast level (which makes everything looks so "3D").

Based on rting.com s numbers, 950G (and last year's 9000F) doesn't hold a candle to 940E in terms of contrast ratio. If that accurately reflects real life experience, then I can give 950G a pass... Anyone has any real life experience or comparison?

Thanks
Really??? I owned the same tv and thought it had AMAZING black levels and contrast. I wonder if you never had your settings dialed in. The contrast level on the 940e is like 11,000:1 which is over twice the 950g. It looked VERY 3dish to me...

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post #1152 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 04:25 PM
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Yeah, but imagine paying $3,500.00 and then seeing burn-in within a year.
I would say the cases where burn in happens in the wild is FAR less than what people think. It's not like every OLED is going to get burn in for sure. If every OLED got burn in within a year, nobody would buy them. Some people get burn in but most don't. To a degree it's mostly preventable also.
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post #1153 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 04:28 PM
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I replaced a plasma with this set and everyone in the house comments on how much more black the screen gets. Gaps between commercial breaks get so black the first day we kept thinking the set had powered off because the plasma was much more gray until you turned it off.
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post #1154 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 04:52 PM
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Yeah, but imagine paying $3,500.00 and then seeing burn-in within a year.
Good point.
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post #1155 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 04:57 PM
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The X950G gets Apple Airplay 2 that the 900F doesn't correct?

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post #1156 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 05:28 PM
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The X950G gets Apple Airplay 2 that the 900F doesn't correct?
Yes, if you want to screen mirror from an iOS device this is the TV for you, otherwise the X900F has Chromecast for Android devices.
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post #1157 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 08:27 PM
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** Disclaimer ** I am in no way qualified to give advice on picture quality such as black levels, blooming, contrast, hdr, blah blah blah . I'm more of an audio guy and generally watch TV with much less critical focus. Flame suit on!

I received my 65" 950G today and am coming from a Samsung 55" 1080P UN7000 series. I may comment on my impressions of this set's picture quality at a later time. I really liked the Samsung but wanted a bigger screen and it developed some vertical lines along the left side of the screen, so a replacement was in order.

I hesitated posting this as I thought maybe it was just the time of day or level of sunshine or whatever, but as I watched the new TV at various times today (10AM - 10PM), I couldn't help but notice how annoyed I was by the glare or reflections on the screen from lights or windows. I did not have this issue with my old set. So, I am rather disappointed right now in the set itself and in rtngs.com as their take was that this handled glared/reflections well.

Attached is a photo of what I'm seeing. Very low level of light in the room (the camera makes it seem brighter) I did not have this level of glare on the old set.
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post #1158 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ralps View Post
** Disclaimer ** I am in no way qualified to give advice on picture quality such as black levels, blooming, contrast, hdr, blah blah blah . I'm more of an audio guy and generally watch TV with much less critical focus. Flame suit on!

I received my 65" 950G today and am coming from a Samsung 55" 1080P UN7000 series. I may comment on my impressions of this set's picture quality at a later time. I really liked the Samsung but wanted a bigger screen and it developed some vertical lines along the left side of the screen, so a replacement was in order.

I hesitated posting this as I thought maybe it was just the time of day or level of sunshine or whatever, but as I watched the new TV at various times today (10AM - 10PM), I couldn't help but notice how annoyed I was by the glare or reflections on the screen from lights or windows. I did not have this issue with my old set. So, I am rather disappointed right now in the set itself and in rtngs.com as their take was that this handled glared/reflections well.

Attached is a photo of what I'm seeing. Very low level of light in the room (the camera makes it seem brighter) I did not have this level of glare on the old set.
Thanks for posting this and I am like you I believe...I am no expert, just trying to learn from our group and the last time I searched diligently for a TV, I remember now because of your post that a non-glare matte finish was what was sought after. Never ever thought of this parameter in choosing a tv as it was a long time ago.

So, is this an issue that is relevant to today's televisions?

And, not to drag out the 900F but man, it is the benchmark we are all wondering about; is the 900F less glossy than the 950G?

Cheers
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post #1159 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 08:45 PM
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Thanks Joe from Sony Corporation of America.
LOL, yeah no, not a sony bot here. Just a sony homer kinda like I'm a Harley snob....take my no tech review as it is, just my opinion. I'll leave the nit picking to others.
To Ralps, I don't know if any tv could handle a bright light in that location. Looks like a tough ask.
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post #1160 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 08:54 PM
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Thanks for posting this and I am like you I believe...I am no expert, just trying to learn from our group and the last time I searched diligently for a TV, I remember now because of your post that a non-glare matte finish was what was sought after. Never ever thought of this parameter in choosing a tv as it was a long time ago.

So, is this an issue that is relevant to today's televisions?

And, not to drag out the 900F but man, it is the benchmark we are all wondering about; is the 900F less glossy than the 950G?

Cheers
Good question, and I didn't think I needed to worry about it until now! I like to listen to music in the evening with a low level of light in the room and the TV off, I'm now seeing significant reflection from the light to the left/rear of me and kitchen behind me 20+ feet, and I can see a noticeable reflection of myself in the TV screen neither of which I had before. Again, different things are priorities to different people, but for me this is very distracting both while watching the TV itself and while it is off. Oh well, there are bigger things in life to worry about!
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post #1161 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bnsutton View Post
LOL, yeah no, not a sony bot here. Just a sony homer kinda like I'm a Harley snob....take my no tech review as it is, just my opinion. I'll leave the nit picking to others.
To Ralps, I don't know if any tv could handle a bright light in that location. Looks like a tough ask.
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post #1162 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 09:04 PM
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Good question, and I didn't think I needed to worry about it until now! I like to listen to music in the evening with a low level of light in the room and the TV off, I'm now seeing significant reflection from the light to the left/rear of me and kitchen behind me 20+ feet, and I can see a noticeable reflection of myself in the TV screen neither of which I had before. Again, different things are priorities to different people, but for me this is very distracting both while watching the TV itself and while it is off. Oh well, there are bigger things in life to worry about!
Just a suggestion, but you could get some bias lighting for the back of the tv and turn those lights behind the tv off...Gives off a decent amount of ambient light
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post #1163 of 2598 Old 03-14-2019, 09:41 PM
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Hi Ralps

I don't have a 950G but I owned a 75x940E and I was quite annoyed with its screen reflection, so I totally feel you. That's was another reason for me to change to a projector with a screen which has no reflection problem.

I would suggest that you relocate or turn off some ambient lights to mitigate the reflection as much as possible, as it might be a bigger hassle to shop for another tv. In my case, that was not possible as the reflection came off a glass wall right behind the sofa, it can't be moved and it reflected the tv s images back to the tv screen, sometimes I would put a black board in front of the glass wall which worked but was a very troublesome and ugly stop gap measure.

Cheers
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post #1164 of 2598 Old 03-15-2019, 02:51 AM
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contrast level on the 940e is like 11,000:1 which is over twice the 950g. It looked VERY 3dish to me...
Many of you are confusing native contrast with scene contrast when local dimming is engaged. They are related but not the same things.

That is why native contrast of 940e is NOT 11000:1 and NOT over twice of 950g
Check this: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x940e

Native contrast is very important as it affects overall scene contrast and also scene colors to some extent. It is explained very well in the review of ZF9 by Vincent. Quite long video but worth watching, especially second part when he talks about it.


For TVs with local dimming zones (when local dimming is engaged) the scene contrast among others depends on type of the scene and that is why you see different numbers for different scenes in reviews on HDTV Polska.

Native contrast can be thought of as the worst contrast given TV can deliver and it should be as high as possible. However the current scene contrast on TVs with local dimming depends strongly of the scene itself as many times dimming algorithm can 'turn off' (or dim) one or more zones giving almost infinite contrast with perfect black levels on LCD screen. I'm not 100% sure if TV turns off zones completely or to the level which is below our perception. In practice it can be more complex as zones can overlap etc..

For example if you have a scene with stars on the dark sky filling whole screen then zones can not be turned off and native contrast will have significant impact on image you see

TVs with local dimming zones can deliver perfect blacks even if their native contrast is not very high, for instance ZF9
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Sony talks about the X1 Ultimate, which says it's twice as powerful as the X1 Extreme
https://ibb.co/bUTQBm
In fact, things are different ...
See the GPU in the new processor 5597

5596 - ARM Mali-T860 MP2 GPU
https://www.mediatek.com/products/digitalTv/mt5596

5597 - ARM Mali-450 MP4 graphics card
https://www.mediatek.com/products/digitalTv/mt5597
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post #1166 of 2598 Old 03-15-2019, 04:40 AM
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In fact, things are different ...Extreme
You are confusing image processor which is X1 Ultimate with system processor (in fact SOC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_on_a_chip) which is used mainly for Android operation, decoding, graphics etc.

They are two different chips installed in TV.

Ultimate has been developed mainly for 8K TVs and that is why it has be more powerful as it has to deal with much more data.

Sony claims that processing power of Ultimate can be also used for improving scaling of 4K TV but nobody (including reviews) was able to show any difference between Ultimate and Extreme. At least I haven't found any such a comparison. This is because Extreme is almost perfect in upscaling (for consumer TVs)
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post #1167 of 2598 Old 03-15-2019, 04:41 AM
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Many of you are confusing native contrast with scene contrast when local dimming is engaged. They are related but not the same things.

Had this conversation multiple times in different threads, but some don't want to hear it.


EDIT: And although the 940E goes to a crazy level with FALD by comparison, it was also tested under an old format of testing by rtings. I have no idea if that number would change under the new format.
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post #1168 of 2598 Old 03-15-2019, 05:58 AM
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Had this conversation multiple times in different threads, but some don't want to hear it.


EDIT: And although the 940E goes to a crazy level with FALD by comparison, it was also tested under an old format of testing by rtings. I have no idea if that number would change under the new format.
True but the 940e was tested after the Z9D and had about 30% higher FALD contrast so I think it's safe to assume it's Sony's best ever on that single measure. Native was about 10% better. I take a 75 Z9D every time.
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post #1169 of 2598 Old 03-15-2019, 06:07 AM
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True but the 940e was tested after the Z9D and had about 30% higher FALD contrast so I think it's safe to assume it's Sony's best ever on that single measure. Native was about 10% better. I take a 75 Z9D every time.

Not arguing that point at all.
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post #1170 of 2598 Old 03-15-2019, 07:29 AM
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Many of you are confusing native contrast with scene contrast when local dimming is engaged. They are related but not the same things.

That is why native contrast of 940e is NOT 11000:1 and NOT over twice of 950g
Check this: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x940e

Native contrast is very important as it affects overall scene contrast and also scene colors to some extent. It is explained very well in the review of ZF9 by Vincent. Quite long video but worth watching, especially second part when he talks about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mlTElC2z2A


For TVs with local dimming zones (when local dimming is engaged) the scene contrast among others depends on type of the scene and that is why you see different numbers for different scenes in reviews on HDTV Polska.

Native contrast can be thought of as the worst contrast given TV can deliver and it should be as high as possible. However the current scene contrast on TVs with local dimming depends strongly of the scene itself as many times dimming algorithm can 'turn off' (or dim) one or more zones giving almost infinite contrast with perfect black levels on LCD screen. I'm not 100% sure if TV turns off zones completely or to the level which is below our perception. In practice it can be more complex as zones can overlap etc..

For example if you have a scene with stars on the dark sky filling whole screen then zones can not be turned off and native contrast will have significant impact on image you see

TVs with local dimming zones can deliver perfect blacks even if their native contrast is not very high, for instance ZF9


Having owned both a 940e and currently a 75 z9d, the 940e had better contrast. The z9d obviously has better localized dimming, but the contrast on the 940e was better.

Nobody watches these sets with local dimming off...Most people are going to watch a tv with whatever image enhancements are available within reason. So I think a measurement with these enhancements is more accurate. Numbers are just numbers. What it looks like when people have it setup how they intend to watch it is what is important. The 940e had a contrast that measured higher, and when you watched it, the contrast was noticeably better. Not that the z9d has bad contrast, just the 940e had better contrast...

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