Samsung Launches 2019 QLED Lineup - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 791 Old 02-19-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Wheaton View Post
i was thinking if they would want there own bars to play nice with there tvs would be enough to implement eARC. Lets suppose it does get eARC, would it be able to pass 5.1 or 7.1 pcm? Or would it only do dd formats since it doesnt support dts.? I guess im not sure if it would just pass thru whatever i send from my x box. Idk exactly how eARC would work, does tv have to support the formats or as long as the bandwidth is there it will just pass thru
That's a good point. eARC mostly just allows for TVs to passthorugh lossless audio..IDK. I'd be hopeful but not confident.

I have the Q9FN, and I just use my Receivers passthrough to get lossless audio. It'd be nice to be able to use VRR and Atmos at the same time..although I use an Nvidia graphics card, so I can't take advantage of it anyways.
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post #332 of 791 Old 02-19-2019, 05:40 PM
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That's a good point. eARC mostly just allows for TVs to passthorugh lossless audio..IDK. I'd be hopeful but not confident.

I have the Q9FN, and I just use my Receivers passthrough to get lossless audio. It'd be nice to be able to use VRR and Atmos at the same time..although I use an Nvidia graphics card, so I can't take advantage of it anyways.
Nvidia currently supports VRR on DisplayPort outputs, so support for VRR over HDMI is inevitable.
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post #333 of 791 Old 02-19-2019, 06:20 PM
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Nvidia currently supports VRR on DisplayPort outputs, so support for VRR over HDMI is inevitable.
That's the thing. Are they going to update current GPUs to allow VRR over HDMI? Or do we have to wait a year or more for a new generation of GPUs?

I'd guess the latter.
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post #334 of 791 Old 02-19-2019, 07:12 PM
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I'm incredibly excited about the 43" Q60. It seems Samsung will be supporting AMD Freesync/VRR even at 60hz.
As an Xbox one X this is great news.

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post #335 of 791 Old 02-19-2019, 07:35 PM
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Hi guys. How tight is the street price to Samsung's MSRP? I'm wondering if the street price of the Q90 82" would be below the $6500 MSRP around launch and/or how long it typically takes for it to fall.

Thanks.
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post #336 of 791 Old 02-19-2019, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Wheaton View Post
i was thinking if they would want there own bars to play nice with there tvs would be enough to implement eARC. Lets suppose it does get eARC, would it be able to pass 5.1 or 7.1 pcm? Or would it only do dd formats since it doesnt support dts.? I guess im not sure if it would just pass thru whatever i send from my x box. Idk exactly how eARC would work, does tv have to support the formats or as long as the bandwidth is there it will just pass thru
eARC support on TVs only requires them to pass the audio codec through to the AVR or soundbar. It does not require decoding support on the part of the display, nor conversion to PCM. If implemented correctly, everything is possible...including Dolby ATMOS and DTS-X.
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post #337 of 791 Old 02-19-2019, 08:48 PM
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The 82" Q90R looks like a very compelling upgrade from a 65inch OLED

If only Samsung had Dolby Vision honestly their market share would increase like crazy.

I don't get why they're being stubborn with it, what's the point of having an amazing feature like iTunes Tv when all of iTunes metadata HDR is in Dolby Vision.
I think Apple should have brought that feature to LG OLEDs instead.

It's not like they can't have both HDR10+ and Dolby Vision (Panasonic did it). If its a matter of costs then at least include it in the flagship models.
This no Dolby Vision nonsense is getting annoying especially from an industry leader like Samsung. How long will they persist?
This marriage will require concessions from both companies that to date they’ve been unwilling to agree upon. As it stands, neither company has much to lose by standing their ground...HDR10 is the ONLY standard that is mandatory for all displays and projectors that are HDR-capable. Market penetration for DV titles (both discs as well as streaming) would have to vastly eclipse that of HDR10 titles in order to force a radical departure from the current state of affairs. This debacle is not about which format is better for the consumer...it is about bottom lines and a company’s corporate pride. Those manufacturers who include support for both formats do so hoping to appeal to a broader market, which is wise. But it does not automatically translate to dramatically larger sales...just ask LG. If they didn’t have the beautiful OLEDs to show off the best that DV has to offer, their poorly performing IPS LCDs probably wouldn’t be enough to keep the company profitable.
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post #338 of 791 Old 02-19-2019, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam97 View Post
If only Samsung had Dolby Vision honestly their market share would increase like crazy.

I don't get why they're being stubborn with it, ...
Samsung has lots of user controls that let me fine tune picture quality. Dolby Vision would not allow me to do that any longer, because of DV's "director's intent" theory. The details of picture adjustment are up to the original director and to the other people and devices in the display chain in preserving the director's intent. That means, I'm not in control -- viewers don't count -- leave it to the experts. Well. I don't accept that. In my view, I'm in charge of the picture that gets displayed in my home on my TV at my expense. I don't want Samsung to knuckle under to Dolby.

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post #339 of 791 Old 02-19-2019, 10:28 PM
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This is exactly how I'm starting to see it as well. Vertical banding completely distracts me on a 75-inch Q9FN the same way it would on a 55-inch TCL. It's much easier to excuse issues on a TV set knowing that it's not a flagship and/or knowing that you didn't pay 5k on it. There is way too much scrutinizing of TV sets when you know that you paid for the best of the best.

I’m about to pull the trigger on the 75” Q9FN because I currently have the 65” edge-lit Q9F with terrible banding and I thought the FALD Q9FN doesn’t have it? Is the banding terrible in yours?
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post #340 of 791 Old 02-19-2019, 10:45 PM
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I’m about to pull the trigger on the 75” Q9FN because I currently have the 65” edge-lit Q9F with terrible banding and I thought the FALD Q9FN doesn’t have it? Is the banding terrible in yours?
The banding is way worse on the 65" Q9FN than the 75Q9FN. There may be some outliers here and there but that's the consensus.
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post #341 of 791 Old 02-19-2019, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Wheaton View Post
i was thinking if they would want there own bars to play nice with there tvs would be enough to implement eARC. Lets suppose it does get eARC, would it be able to pass 5.1 or 7.1 pcm? Or would it only do dd formats since it doesnt support dts.? I guess im not sure if it would just pass thru whatever i send from my x box. Idk exactly how eARC would work, does tv have to support the formats or as long as the bandwidth is there it will just pass thru
eARC support on TVs only requires them to pass the audio codec through to the AVR or soundbar. It does not require decoding support on the part of the display, nor conversion to PCM. If implemented correctly, everything is possible...including Dolby ATMOS and DTS-X.
thanks for explanation. If i knew these would get eARC id jump on the q70 65”. If it wont be confirmed or atleast speculated as strong possibility, i may go lg oled @ 55”. Or wait to see what tcl pulls out (not interested in 8k though)
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post #342 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 12:38 AM
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Samsung has lots of user controls that let me fine tune picture quality. Dolby Vision would not allow me to do that any longer, because of DV's "director's intent" theory. The details of picture adjustment are up to the original director and to the other people and devices in the display chain in preserving the director's intent. That means, I'm not in control -- viewers don't count -- leave it to the experts. Well. I don't accept that. In my view, I'm in charge of the picture that gets displayed in my home on my TV at my expense. I don't want Samsung to knuckle under to Dolby.
Actually you'll have more versatility with Dolby Vision.
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post #343 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 01:38 AM
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If anyone is interested, some of Samsung's 2019 lineup may be on display tomorrow at the 3 brand new Samsung experience stores that open tomorrow. Locations are NYC, Texas, and California.



Check Thea article for location details.







https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...erience-stores
Hmmm The Glendale, CA location is only 30 minutes from my house. I may have to take a look
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post #344 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 01:57 AM
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This marriage will require concessions from both companies that to date they’ve been unwilling to agree upon. As it stands, neither company has much to lose by standing their ground...HDR10 is the ONLY standard that is mandatory for all displays and projectors that are HDR-capable. Market penetration for DV titles (both discs as well as streaming) would have to vastly eclipse that of HDR10 titles in order to force a radical departure from the current state of affairs. This debacle is not about which format is better for the consumer...it is about bottom lines and a company’s corporate pride. Those manufacturers who include support for both formats do so hoping to appeal to a broader market, which is wise. But it does not automatically translate to dramatically larger sales...just ask LG. If they didn’t have the beautiful OLEDs to show off the best that DV has to offer, their poorly performing IPS LCDs probably wouldn’t be enough to keep the company profitable.
It's the profit from these poorly performing IPS LCD televisions that has allowed LGE to lose money on their OLED televisions for so many years. LGE is now finally making a profit on their OLED televisions but ironically it'll be more difficult to increase/maintain profitability because the cost of WOLED panels from LGD has risen sharply due to more demand from other OLED TV manufacturers.

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post #345 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 04:19 AM
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Actually you'll have more versatility with Dolby Vision.
With LG's implementation of DV not Sony's take on it. I'm ok with Q90 not having DV as it comes with other specs that I'm interested in.
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post #346 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 06:24 AM
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Have to agree with this. The Alien Covenant ending scene that I compared in Q9FN was very similar to my B6. No difference. Looking forward to Q90, great giant tv with deep blacks without worry for burn ins.

So was it very similar or was there no difference?


As for burn in worry, I guess you're one of those people who has paid too much attention to rtings and their tests. I see it all the time in QLED customer reviews. The first comment being something like "I would have bought OLED but I didn't want a burned in screen."


I've got 2200 hours on my OLED over the last year since purchase.. and I don't have any burn in. What am I doing wrong? Am I not watching enough CNN? Am I not leaving my OLED on the airport arrival/departure screensaver for 24 hours straight like rtings and their tests? Somebody clue me in please while I'm enjoying the best PQ available in my dark room HT.


A little research is all it takes to make an informed purchasing decision without falling victim to all the BS or becoming a confused consumer that thinks QLED is even remotely close to an OLED in terms of tech specs and PQ. That's who Samsung is after with their ripoff naming marketing scheme.


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post #347 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 06:37 AM
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^lol I was trying to be diplomatic about it without ruffling feathers...but I 100% agree with you. My oleds are perfectly fine with bright rooms regardless of what folks who only have them for a temporary amount of time say...I own both techs and just shake my head at most of the misconceptions and total BS that is sometimes passed off here especially from non owners whose only experience with oled is at their local BB.

Preach on!!



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post #348 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 07:40 AM
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So was it very similar or was there no difference?


As for burn in worry, I guess you're one of those people who has paid too much attention to rtings and their tests. I see it all the time in QLED customer reviews. The first comment being something like "I would have bought OLED but I didn't want a burned in screen."


I've got 2200 hours on my OLED over the last year since purchase.. and I don't have any burn in. What am I doing wrong? Am I not watching enough CNN? Am I not leaving my OLED on the airport arrival/departure screensaver for 24 hours straight like rtings and their tests? Somebody clue me in please while I'm enjoying the best PQ available in my dark room HT.


A little research is all it takes to make an informed purchasing decision without falling victim to all the BS or becoming a confused consumer that thinks QLED is even remotely close to an OLED in terms of tech specs and PQ. That's who Samsung is after with their ripoff naming marketing scheme.


Nope. Don't care what other's are sayin'. Got multiple burn-in on my less than 2 years old OLED. Did not use the OLED for CNN or Fox or any other news outlet even once.

I trust my eyes. The Q9FN looked better than 900F.
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post #349 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 08:08 AM
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Got multiple burn-in on my less than 2 years old OLED. Did not use the OLED for CNN or Fox or any other news outlet even once.
What kind of Burn-in exactly?
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post #350 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 08:24 AM
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Nope. Don't care what other's are sayin'. Got multiple burn-in on my less than 2 years old OLED. Did not use the OLED for CNN or Fox or any other news outlet even once.

Oh, I'm sure you did given the sheer number of your posts that mention it. I'm not disputing that at all. One thing I do know though... is you didn't get BI on your OLED from watching full/wide screen movies like I've done with mine for the vast majority of the last 2200 viewing hours. Whatever it is you were watching (some type of logoed programming not named CNN or Fox... maybe YouTube... whatever) is the culprit.

I'd definitely recommend the LCD for those viewing habits.

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I trust my eyes. The Q9FN looked better than 900F.
... and much like the sky is blue the QLED will continue to come in 2nd place to the OLED in the heads up battles. For the same money I just couldn't settle for 2nd place. Additionally, I wanted the best dark room viewing experience in my HT and OLED wins that hands down.

To each their own.

Enjoy that QLED!
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post #352 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 08:41 AM
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It's the profit from these poorly performing IPS LCD televisions that has allowed LGE to lose money on their OLED televisions for so many years. LGE is now finally making a profit on their OLED televisions but ironically it'll be more difficult to increase/maintain profitability because the cost of WOLED panels from LGD has risen sharply due to more demand from other OLED TV manufacturers.
Making more panels doesn't cost LG more money. Quite the opposite. That panels cost more to other makers has to do with the popularity of LG OLED TVs which makes them less available to others. There is no down side here for LG.
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post #353 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 08:46 AM
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So was it very similar or was there no difference?


As for burn in worry, I guess you're one of those people who has paid too much attention to rtings and their tests. I see it all the time in QLED customer reviews. The first comment being something like "I would have bought OLED but I didn't want a burned in screen."


I've got 2200 hours on my OLED over the last year since purchase.. and I don't have any burn in. What am I doing wrong? Am I not watching enough CNN? Am I not leaving my OLED on the airport arrival/departure screensaver for 24 hours straight like rtings and their tests? Somebody clue me in please while I'm enjoying the best PQ available in my dark room HT.


A little research is all it takes to make an informed purchasing decision without falling victim to all the BS or becoming a confused consumer that thinks QLED is even remotely close to an OLED in terms of tech specs and PQ. That's who Samsung is after with their ripoff naming marketing scheme.


The dude you responded to just said he owns both formats in the very post you quoted. He thinks the picture of the q9 is as good. Regardless of how you feel about the burn in scare. Zero chance > minor chance. You're watching it wrong is a poor response to the phenomenon.

Why does every new LCD thread get OLED zealots taking discussions off topic?
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post #354 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 09:00 AM
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The dude you responded to just said he owns both formats in the very post you quoted. He thinks the picture of the q9 is as good. Regardless of how you feel about the burn in scare. Zero chance > minor chance. You're watching is wrong is a poor response to the phenomenon.

Why does every new LCD thread get OLED zealots taking discussions off topic?
Crazy, I just posted a similar response in the new Samsung LCD review thread.

Very interested in the anti-reflective properties because my TV will be in a living room area, during the day, tons of light, during the night, light can be dimmed but still have a good portion of light.

Really sours me that Samsung refuses to go DV.

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Read the specs as Samsung has a tendency to issue 49" sizes with 60 Hz native refresh panels, so you'd have to deal with judder and no VRR for gaming. The 55" will absolutely have a 120 Hz panel with VRR support.
Do Samsung's 60 Hz panels not have a 48 Hz mode for 24p content so they don't have to do 3:2 pulldown? That's the main source of judder I'm concerned about.

If you disengage motion interpolation settings, I think the differences between 60 Hz and 120 Hz panels are dramatically overblown - virtually nonexistent with content that's 60 fps or less. VRR and gaming being the one major exception. Though I'm not sure how many people really have gaming rigs that can pump out 2160p @ 120Hz.

If you like motion interpolation, of course, none of the above applies.
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post #356 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 09:27 AM
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Do Samsung's 60 Hz panels not have a 48 Hz mode for 24p content so they don't have to do 3:2 pulldown? That's the main source of judder I'm concerned about.

If you disengage motion interpolation settings, I think the differences between 60 Hz and 120 Hz panels are dramatically overblown - virtually nonexistent with content that's 60 fps or less. VRR and gaming being the one major exception. Though I'm not sure how many people really have gaming rigs that can pump out 2160p @ 120Hz.

If you like motion interpolation, of course, none of the above applies.
I can't speak for this particular model, but on the cheaper 60 Hz Samsung TVs there is no judder control at all for 24p from a Blu-ray or through a 60p/60i satellite/cable box. And you need to have a 120 Hz panel for VRR on a Samsung TV. The 2018 Q6FN 49" model has a 60 Hz panel while the larger versions have 120 Hz panels so anyone thinking of purchasing a 2019 49" "QLED" needs to check the specs carefully before buying.
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post #357 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 09:27 AM
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The dude you responded to just said he owns both formats in the very post you quoted. He thinks the picture of the q9 is as good. Regardless of how you feel about the burn in scare. Zero chance > minor chance. You're watching is wrong is a poor response to the phenomenon.

Why does every new LCD thread get OLED zealots taking discussions off topic?

Probably for the same reason every OLED thread comes with some Samsung fanboi saying "OLED, the TV you can watch when the power is on and off."


People are so misinformed... and while yeah, zero chance > minor chance.... 2nd place < 1st place and 2nd is where QLED is and will continue to be with the gray blacks and subpar viewing angles. That's just the facts... and I'm aware he owns both formats.



I did like the part though where he said he compared his QLED to OLED and he said the QLED was very similar in PQ but there was no difference in PQ. In the end I could care less what format someone buys but I don't recommend settling for 2nd place just over a minor chance of BI unless you simply don't want the best PQ available.


Cheers.
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post #358 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 09:27 AM
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The dude you responded to just said he owns both formats in the very post you quoted. He thinks the picture of the q9 is as good. Regardless of how you feel about the burn in scare. Zero chance > minor chance. You're watching is wrong is a poor response to the phenomenon.

Why does every new LCD thread get OLED zealots taking discussions off topic?

Agreed. Iv been in plenty of threads in the OLED forum and get all the moaners coming to defence the second you mention anything negative about OLED. Can we please keep this on topic for the 2019 QLED sets. Burn in discussions and how good OLED's are in a bright room are for a different topic.

After reading Marks hands on review of the Q900 which is basically the Q90 with 8K the wide viewing angels and black filter sound extremely impressive to the point of giving inky blacks better than the 2018 models and even better blooming control if there is basically any blooming at all with the 2019 flagships. When you add deeper blacks, better contrast, less blooming, wide viewing angels with no colour shift, the best anti reflection filter on the market is honestly sounds to me like they will have a winner on there hands. Having no contrast shift with viewing angels close to OLED on a VA panel sounds amazing to me and is a pretty massive step forward for LCD considering viewing angels have been an issue for a very long time with VA panels.
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post #359 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 09:34 AM
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Agreed. Iv been in plenty of threads in the OLED forum and get all the moaners coming to defence the second you mention anything negative about OLED. Can we please keep this on topic for the 2019 QLED sets. Burn in discussions and how good OLED's are in a bright room are for a different topic.

After reading Marks hands on review of the Q900 which is basically the Q90 with 8K the wide viewing angels and black filter sound extremely impressive to the point of giving inky blacks better than the 2018 models and even better blooming control if there is basically any blooming at all with the 2019 flagships. When you add deeper blacks, better contrast, less blooming, wide viewing angels with no colour shift, the best anti reflection filter on the market is honestly sounds to me like they will have a winner on there hands. Having no contrast shift with viewing angels close to OLED on a VA panel sounds amazing to me and is a pretty massive step forward for LCD considering viewing angels have been an issue for a very long time with VA panels.
Well said. Exactly what I am thinking, but it is the Q90R or nothing from Samsung for me.
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post #360 of 791 Old 02-20-2019, 09:36 AM
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Do Samsung's 60 Hz panels not have a 48 Hz mode for 24p content so they don't have to do 3:2 pulldown? That's the main source of judder I'm concerned about.
My 50" Vizio P-series is a 60Hz panel that has a 48Hz mode, which works works well for judder -- but the FALD can flicker at times with 24p content when switching between bright and dark scenes. It's as if the backlighting is out of sync with brightness change of the LCDs.

Not sure if the issue is just my TV or Vizio in general, but I'll never do a 60Hz FALD panel again.
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